View Full Version : Iain's 20XE Trackday Nova
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Southie
06-01-16, 08:17 PM
Southie wins a gold star.
Yes, get in whoop : dancing :
Test drive successful, I could get the brakes stinking to bed them in. I can only lock the fronts with the bias all the way forward though. Going to re-design the pedal assembly under the battery tray to give a better brake pedal ratio, more updates soon...
Good to see this is still an on-going project!
Lucky on the Donny off that the gravel did its job
I also did exactly the same on the same corner lol
Had gravel rattling in the chassis rails for about 2months after.
Sorry Will, presenting the 2016 trackday support bus lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/Misc/tapatalk_1453586862549.jpeg.jpg
8valve-craig
03-02-16, 12:33 PM
At least its got a bit of GM in it.
My E34 525i saloon wasn't cutting it for loading space and some idiot had lowered it which wasn't helping the towing.
This has a massive loading space for wheels, tools and also sleeping in, good torquey 2.3 turbo lump for towing, RWD, bit tatty so no worries about dinging it and most importantly cheap as chips lol
Epic machine. I miss my 850 T5
darragh792
03-02-16, 11:44 PM
Had a read from about page 250 there some very good work has went into this, lucky in that last video I would have needed a change of trousers after that. Keep up the good work
Thanks mate appreciate the comment.
OK so I had my brakes set up roughly working, but it wasn't a great pedal feel again. I had to address the pedal ratio problem.
Old pedal assembly out:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/249.JPG
Now we all know the issues with fitting a standard Corsa pedal into a Nova;
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/250.JPG
What I really need to do is straighten the pedal, and move the pivot point up on the housing, resulting in a longer pedal and better pedal ratio:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/251.JPG
This is achievable since the pedal box rod is a lot smaller than a standard Corsa rod, so for max tweaking I got a selection of clevises (aftermarket, Nova and Corsa ones)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/252.JPG
Needed the longest possible in the end:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/253.JPG
This looks like a bodge job but it's all strong and safe, and is in fact the second one I've made (did a prototype version before this for testing)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/254.JPG
Difference to standard:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/255.JPG
Needed adjusting down on the clevis in this pic, but it all lines up fine:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/256.JPG
The other problem I had was the rear was constantly locking up no matter what I tried, so I've swapped the .7 rear cylinder out for a .75 one:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/257.JPG
To save cutting another down, I've swapped the push rods over:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/258.JPG
Just need to remove the small circlip:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/259.JPG
And the eagle eyed have noticed I've removed the pedal switch holder, so I'm now running a bolt that replaces the banjo bolt on the front master cylinder, that operates the brake lights circuit:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/260.JPG
And it's got a new windscreen due to a few chips in the old one:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/261.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/262.JPG
Peredur
22-02-16, 06:28 PM
Nice bit of re-engineering there. Like the banjo-sender too. Keep it up
I thought you were meant to be working from home not updated your car thread?!?
8valve-craig
27-02-16, 03:42 PM
Can you index this thread please Iaiyn. I'm tired of searching through it to steal your ideas.
Gotta earn the theft by wading through 300 pages of waffle.
Can you index this thread please Iaiyn. I'm tired of searching through it to steal your ideas.
ha glad it's not just me.
TallDave
02-03-16, 04:00 PM
Gotta earn the theft by wading through 300 pages of waffle.
Hear, hair to that sentiment, no pain no gain I guess, and it make the idea stealing that bit more satisfying...:d
ABoresta
03-03-16, 09:47 PM
Do you know the measurements off the top of your head for the alternator bracket you made when you first did your bike carb conversion?
As you know just ordered my carbs so wanting to get as much as I can ready for when they turn up :)
After the distance between the centres of the Rose joints and what size rose joints if you know mate.
cheers
Do you know the measurements off the top of your head for the alternator bracket you made when you first did your bike carb conversion?
As you know just ordered my carbs so wanting to get as much as I can ready for when they turn up :)
After the distance between the centres of the Rose joints and what size rose joints if you know mate.
cheers
It was a 110-140mm turnbuckle from McGill. The piece itself ended up 42mm long and probably cut down RJs but can't remember what belt that was with.
Brakes seem to be working OK, biased most of the way to the front mind. I went for a blast yesterday with my mate in his Nissan 350Z, so have some unnecessary pic whoring. Courtesy of him for the pics!
http://iainel.co.uk/images/gallery/Melton13-03-2016/01.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/gallery/Melton13-03-2016/02.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/gallery/Melton13-03-2016/03.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/gallery/Melton13-03-2016/04.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/gallery/Melton13-03-2016/05.JPG
Rusty Nova & bling Jap tart, I know which I'd prefer.
Worth doing the brake upgrades then?
So far no, see how they are on track.
Oh.
Maybe i should of popped in and had a drive.
I've already told him he just needs to press the pedal harder and eventually it'll stop.
It's stopping well now. Part of it was getting used to the linear braking effort vs power compared to a servo assist.
It's the fact I've got the bias all the way forward, seems a bit pointless having an adjuster! I could try a larger cylinder again on the rear, I think they do a 0.8-something.
TallDave
16-03-16, 03:55 PM
Possibly even worrying?
Iain, presumably you've got a 0.625" front master cylinder? Just wondering what the spec of your front braking system is, and cos I'm a lazy B and can't be arsed schrolling back through your thread I wondered if you could let us anoraks know the grizzly details in an easy to read summary?
For instance I know your running 4 pot front calipers but wonder what the piston size is? Also what size discs...?
Hopefully I and others can benefit from your learning process (I was almost tempted to say mistakes but that would be plain rude) :d
0.625 front, now 0.75 rear. They're Wilwood 4 pot Dynalites, with 280mm discs, rears are Corsa C single pot sliding caliper. However I've done this very crudely and not measured the piston sizes, quantities etc and purely based it on 'what others have success with'.
I've noticed the front cylinder moves quite far in comparison to the rear, I'm not sure if the sign of a good set up is similar travel on both. Who knows.
TallDave
19-03-16, 02:19 PM
0.625 front, now 0.75 rear. They're Wilwood 4 pot Dynalites, with 280mm discs, rears are Corsa C single pot sliding caliper. However I've done this very crudely and not measured the piston sizes, quantities etc and purely based it on 'what others have success with'.
Looking at the picture of your Calipers, the pistons don't look to be overly large, so that might explain why they feel a little on the heavy side?
Hopefully the switch to a larger rear M/C will even up the bias bar a little?
I've noticed the front cylinder moves quite far in comparison to the rear, I'm not sure if the sign of a good set up is similar travel on both. Who knows.
That's pretty standard for a pedal box setup, especially when running a tarmac setup, presumably you've got the pedal box bias bar set up with the Bias Bar cocked such that the front brake clevis to M/C is longer than the one for the rear brakes?
Thus allowing the front brake cylinder to have the extra stroke that it needs to move the pistons in the calipers without risking the balance bar lever binding?
At the end of the day I suppose we are all looking for a brake pedal that provides plenty of feel (I believe the technical term is modulation?) and give us confidence in them. The problem with servo brakes is that though they provide good power, they always lack any real feel. I always remember moving a friends 911SC and only after I'd parked and got out did I realised just how good a non servo brake setup could be, driving it albeit slowly, they just worked...
I have this joy to come!
The 0.75 didn't work, it was still locking the rears on maximum front bias. There was loads of travel on the 0.625 cylinder, so either there's STILL an airlock in the cylinder somewhere, or something isn't 'matched'.
I've fitted the old rear (0.7) to the front now, and the pedal is way firmer and pedal travel is much more what I'd expect, so I'm going to go out and see if the front locks before the rears on this setup. Hockly said they ran .7 front/.75 rear so I don't think it's unusual.
Imagine your 911 mate got all the calcs and worked out the proper sizes scientifically, or had it professionally configured? That's too complicated and involved for me!
hockly told me to run a 0.7 on front and 0.75 on the rear. I guess that's pretty common on a nova with 4 pods on front and disk brakes on the rear?
Maybe, having took mine out to attempt to set it up yesterday, I had an inline adjuster wound all the way down (maximum restriction) and the bias quite far forward to stop the rears locking, and was struggling to lock the fronts with the 0.7 cylinder.
I think I must have had trapped air in the 0.625, it's the only explanation, so that's going back on with a thorough bench bleeding prior to installing.
TallDave
24-03-16, 12:10 AM
Maybe, having took mine out to attempt to set it up yesterday, I had an inline adjuster wound all the way down (maximum restriction) and the bias quite far forward to stop the rears locking, and was struggling to lock the fronts with the 0.7 cylinder.
Blimey that sounds terrible, you definitely shouldn't need an in-line adjuster on the rear brakes, after all that's the whole point of fitting a bias box.
Hopefully the 0.0625 should give a better result?
Are you sure the bias bar isn't fouling its housing (tube) when you are leaning on the pedal? I'm a bit suspicious that the reason why the rear brakes are locking up, despite using an in-line adjuster wound all the way down, is because the side of the bias bar the rear M/C is on is fouling the back of the housing?
If your doing this all single handed, maybe you can persuade a mate/the missus to lean on the pedal while you watch what happens to the bias bar as the brake pedal is pressed.
Got my fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of the problem soon. Good luck.:thumb:
Yes sir, definitely not fouling, there's plenty of slack for it to get an angle on. Here's Harvey applying the brakes while I watch my expensive disappointment in action. Can see the front moving excessively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhj2oKtBl0
Well I've swapped back to the 0.625 by properly bench bleeding by hand, transferring a FULL cylinder to the car and getting fluid everywhere, and then manually and pressure bleeding through, still felt sloppy. I've then swapped to some 256 ATE calipers and it feels awful on both of them. Very soft and squishy.
Have you droiven another Vauxhall with one of these?
Mine always 'feels' rubbish until used in anger and tehn it really comes into play - with heat in the pads and the right mind-set mine is great... if I get in after a few weeks in a normal car they feel absolutely toilet!
Driven Harvey's Astra which is what convinced me I'd be OK servoless, and in turn he's driven mine with the new brakes.
I am expectinga firm pedal and to be able to lock the front wheels, especially with heat in the pads and the bias all the way forwards. I'm getting neither.
RallyDesign are swapping my 0.625 cylinder as it's the only thing left to be at fault.
BRoadGhost
24-03-16, 09:48 PM
Doesn't look like anything at fault in the mechanical travel of that pedal box.
Understand you CANNOT compare feel with a servo setup OR some other guys hydraulic setup that's fully bedded in.
When you're running new brakes the run in period on a lightweight car will take longer and longer and longer the bigger the disks are, calipers are then there's pad compound.
corsakid
25-03-16, 02:23 AM
I run no servo cant remeber what my master cylinders are My brakes don't feel great at first and get a little bit better on the road, but need to drive it hard and drive the car often to get used to the sensation of no servo assistance my pedal is very firm though feels like I'm pressing a bit of 2 x 4 lol
Driven Harvey's Astra which is what convinced me I'd be OK servoless, and in turn he's driven mine with the new brakes.
I am expectinga firm pedal and to be able to lock the front wheels, especially with heat in the pads and the bias all the way forwards. I'm getting neither.
RallyDesign are swapping my 0.625 cylinder as it's the only thing left to be at fault.
There does look look to be a fair bit of travel on the front cylinder,but if you look at the video you posted the bias bar rocks off the rear cylinder as in the front cylinder doesn't really move until there is some resistance from the rear cylinder which would explain the rears locking however the bias bar is situated.
i would try putting the bias towards the rear then try spacing the rear cylinder away from the pedalbox and see if you can get the bias bar to stay parallel when pressing the pedal like this .when you have it operating like this then put the bias towards the front and try it .i would expect with a bit of heat to able to lock the fronts easily ,with a .625 front the pedal is not too heavy ,heavier than a servo car but too bad tbh
BRoadGhost
25-03-16, 07:36 PM
Oh I forgot to mention you wanna run a proportioning valve on the rear line!
TallDave
26-03-16, 02:26 AM
I'm definitely starting to feel your pain Iain :wall: I hope the replacement M/C produces a better feeling pedal.
Nice video by the way, for a moment I though the balance bar was all askew, but then I realized it was an optical illusion due to the viewing angle, doh!
My only comment would be that I think that the bar should be skewed such that Front M/C end should be further back than the Rear M/C when the brakes pedal is 'at rest', if you see what I mean? That is to say that as you apply pedal pressure the bar will pass through being square then at maximum pressure the Front M/C will be closer than that of the Rear, clear as mud...:d
I'm just worried that the bar might be fouling the tube as max pedal pressure is reached, this would definitely NOT be a good thing as if it is, it will result in unwanted pressure being applied to the back brakes, so might (?) be the cause of the premature rear brake locking.
I'll also repeat (because I'm a pedant) that the whole purpose of fitting a Brake Bias Pedal Box like this one is to enable the proportioning valve used with a tandem M/C, to the nearest skip... That said I notice that 8vCraig has one fitted in his race car, hmm. :eek:
Well the braking woes are almost over... After a lot of bleeding attempts, a second 0.625 front cylinder, trying 256 ATE calipers and finally going back to 4 pots. I managed to get a firmer pedal in the end, somehow, who knows. I then changed the friction material up front which seems to have given it a lot more bite, and now it's stopping as it should.
Now I'm done with the brakes, I've given the interior a bit of a facelift and lost a lot of weight in the process.
Original battery location for a reminder:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/263.JPG
Odyssey PC680 in it's new bracket for size comparison:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/264.JPG
Original battery and bracketry comes in at 12.9kg. The massive +ve battery cable I used came in at a whopping 1.8kg too!!!
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/265.JPG
New battery in at 6.6kg:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/266.JPG
Since the wiring is up front, I've put the battery in the passenger footwell and coupled it with moving the footrest forward due to passenger criticisms lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/267.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/268.JPG
Posh Longacre bulkhead connector fitted and new starter wire made up:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/269.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/270.JPG
My old dash was incredibly ropey, several years old and sagging in the middle from hanging on the top 2 bolts and cable ties at the sides. I got a new mk2 dash, cut the sides off, welded in various brackets here and there and sent it off for flocking.
Started on the refitting:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/271.JPG
Making a carbon blank up for the headunit area:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/272.JPG
All pre-wired with plugs for easy plug and play:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/273.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/274.JPG
Finished pics. It's a mid grey flocked carcass, glovebox and fusebox cover with black binnacles and I think the combo looks cracking and a nice nod to the OE grey dash.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/275.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/276.JPG
Couple of trick touches most won't notice... Removed the headlight leveller as I no longer have them:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/277.JPG
EPAS sensitivity controller is hidden under here, it's actually easily accessible by hand but means I won't knock it:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/278.JPG
Brake balance adjuster for the new pedal assembly:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/279.JPG
New switch panel, just awaiting new black screws and label maker:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/280.JPG
And to stop it sagging I've welded tabs to the rollcage both sides and it's supported at the bottom, so it's very secure now:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/281.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/282.JPG
RallyMarshal
27-04-16, 01:38 PM
Nicely done....
Is the battery mount secure enough against the footrest?
The footrest is on four M6 rivnuts to the floor and the battery cage is four M6 rivnuts to the footrest. It feels pretty secure.
CorsaTR2p
27-04-16, 03:02 PM
Great proyect, i like the result.
Regards.
I like the dash and what you've done there. Very good.
On your Epas, did you do a 2nd mount? Or just use the first/top two?
Thanks TR2p.
It's using the bottom mount too. I think it makes use of a captive nut in the battery tray already.
The footrest is on four M6 rivnuts to the floor and the battery cage is four M6 rivnuts to the footrest. It feels pretty secure.
I've done the same and it's double hard
Love the dash colour! (And the extra touches to it)
The adventures of a shonky Nova at Donington Park on 6th May 2016, pictures and words from the days spanner monkey aka Harvey.
It all started at 8am with a fresh faced, non dripping and eager to go Nova.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_092627Small.jpg
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_092633Small.jpg
The catering facilities were top notch and even the driver for the day was delighted with the cheap flapjack.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_092708Small.jpg
There was hardly anyone there so loads of track space, zoom zoom…..and zoom.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_093230Small.jpg
The sponsors loved it, BTCC here we come.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_101601Small.jpg
Just chilling after a steady start. Driver telling us just how big the pizza was he ate the night before.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_101612Small.jpg
Really, I thought it was built on your drive Iain!
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_101621Small.jpg
Cool pic time.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_101651Small.jpg
Not many out there, yet another victim passed mowahahaha.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_104324Small.jpg
Engine, honest it is.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_105706Small.jpg
Corsa B pedal box working well finally.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_105741Small.jpg
Taking a breather after yet more abuse.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_105753Small.jpg
Is there anybody out there…..no
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_122518Small.jpg
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_122816Small.jpg
Pit lane action.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_123027Small.jpg
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_123036Small.jpg
Lunchies nom nom nom.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_124656Small.jpg
Part of the team are back on track.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_124720Small.jpg
Rubbertastic, rear left which takes the abuse.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_125114Small.jpg
Brake pad material transfer on the disk face, perfect.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_125146Small.jpg
I still think it should be a Millies Cookies sticker.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_125222Small.jpg
Then at 2pm we met with this chap at the bottom of Old Hairpin as it all went wrong coming through Hollywood.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135307Small.jpg
Driver not happy.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135317Small.jpg
We got a free tow back and no one hated us much…I think.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135432Small.jpg
Zooming up to McLeans.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135531Small.jpg
Down the Dunlop Straight.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135655Small.jpg
Round the Fogarty Esses.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135733Small.jpg
Into the pits for the tow of shame.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_135749Small.jpg
Consolation prize of a white choc chip cookie was on offer after some epic driving.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_140621Small.jpg
Brief diagnostics were required but alas, it was the end of the day for us.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_141843Small.jpg
Resuscitation was attempted as the old girl has performed valiantly but all was now lost.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_142200Small.jpg
Bore 4 looked a bit damp but we were left scratching our heads.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_142850Small.jpg
This left a very unhappy driver as he was having so much fun as was I.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_143620Small.jpg
Poor thing, all ready for the short trip home and further investigation…Iain will be along soon once the issue has been found.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160506_150831Small.jpg
turbojolt
06-05-16, 05:53 PM
Dead.
turbojolt
06-05-16, 07:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugj6zSk9KZs&feature=youtu.be
No Shame in that Iain ,I am on first name terms with the marshals at Brands ,hope it's nothing too serious
Awesome report Harvey love it haha.
No shame here, its all part of the fun. Down on compression on #4 and making a god awful rattling noise so head off soon.
turbojolt
06-05-16, 09:22 PM
No shame at all car was absolutely flying for most of the day
You broked it again?!?
spare engine under the bench ready to go!! GOOOOO TEAM SHONKY!!!!
The thumbs up made it all...
Head off and there's mega damage to #4 piston and head. Mild scoring on the bore. Bugger. This engine didn't last long at all, gutted.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/0a3d3564a1bfe16b08e3ca7cf4a8c45f.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/4cbae8bdd05c21ac464dc25d831848a5.jpg
As on txt mate, got my spare engine under the bench if you want it
nova_stee
07-05-16, 09:13 PM
Some things beenin there. Do you run a filter?
TallDave
08-05-16, 12:50 AM
Some things been in there. Do you run a filter?
He sure does, sensible chap is Iain, so let the sweep stake begin, all the valves are intact so that just leaves the contact tip (s) on the spark plug (unlikely) or a fixing in the throttle body for cylinder number 4, possible a screw securing the butterfly?
Gosh aren't guessing games fun, or maybe not :d
Still a bit of a bummer all the same, do you reckon the block and head are saveable?
Hope you get it fixed soon, don't want to let Mr House out on track alone now do we...
Hope you get it fixed soon, don't want to let Mr House out on track alone now do we...
I don't believe they would actually let me book on without Iain!!!
I reckon a rings come free or a piece of a ring in cylinder 4, or like you said Dave somethings come down out of the inlet but if that had happened id expect damage to a valve
Head on the bench for inspection
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/283.JPG
And quickly discovered the issue. There's a piece of inlet valve guide missing, and one bit loose and freely sliding around the valve stem causing the rattle.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/284.JPG
Looking at my options now, it'll either be a light hone and spare 86mm piston fitted and new head, or a complete new engine.
I've got a spare gm head in the garage if needed mate
scott.parker
08-05-16, 07:21 PM
Wow... That's an odd one! I don't know how you keep your enthusiasm to keep rebuilding and progressing, but fair play, carry on. :thumb:
Cheers Plug. Got a complete engine coming from House as a backup, and I'm popping out to look at a tall engine locally tomorrow night. I'm also getting a quote on fixing the current head although I doubt that'll be economical to do.
I've stripped the bottom end a little further to investigate whether honing is an option. Offending piston out:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/285.JPG
It's squashed the compression ring solid from the impact:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/286.JPG
I have spare early pistons, so my preference is to maintain this bottom end as the other 3 are good, give #4 a hone and pop this replacement in with new rings:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/287.JPG
The bores are ever so slightly scored from the 'event' but you can't really feel anything with your nail so optimistic won't cause a problem:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/288.JPG
The original sealing ring gaps at 0.6mm which is 0.1mm above tolerance... Maybe new rings will reduce it down, or maybe the bore's just worn. I'll see what a new set of rings gap like before proceeding:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/289.JPG
Wow... That's an odd one! I don't know how you keep your enthusiasm to keep rebuilding and progressing, but fair play, carry on. :thumb:
I suspect the enthusiasm will not last too much longer if the engine pops again lol At least I have two failure ornaments in my glass cabinet now lol
Southie
08-05-16, 07:27 PM
Nice damage, it's a nightmare though when engines let go so hope you get it sorted cheap enough ;)
nova_stee
08-05-16, 08:05 PM
Looks next to nowt that mark in the bore .
spare spare engine will be on a pallet tomorrow and ready to be shipped to you.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c175/grahampointing/CBF483AE-56E6-4797-BED5-CD8FA0E491D4.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/grahampointing/media/CBF483AE-56E6-4797-BED5-CD8FA0E491D4.jpg.html)
Being collected Wednesday, it's a 20XE
Engine, that one leaks but at least it works. Poor Iain, one day he'll have an engine that he doesn't have to change as often as the oil.
This is my 3rd engine mate, spare number 2, been sat under the bench for a year, stored safely for just such an occasion!!
As for Iain, he brings it all on himself.
As it takes Iain an age for diary updates I thought I do some hot of the press only happened 30 mins ago progress pics.
He’s a hono and he knows it, cylinder no.4 getting some working so the new rings stand a fighting chance of bedding in.
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160511_131856.jpg
http://www.em51ey.co.uk/General/Donny/20160511_131953.jpg
turbojolt
11-05-16, 03:15 PM
Fire it up!!
Is it done yet?
Engine left mine at 12pm!!
I should go round and take some more progress pictures :roll:
Thanks for engine House. That's going to be stripped down and quickly inspected, if the bottom end is good I will hopefully be keeping it as a backup for if this ring doesn't bed in properly.
#4 cylinder honed
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/290.JPG
I did try removing the old rings to reuse them, but the top one is well and truly stuck in there lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/291.JPG
So the new piston got fresh new Mahle rings:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/292.JPG
And she's home, all bolted up to the crank. Had to countersink the rod cap for the ARPs too:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/293.JPG
Sump and gasket cleaning and reuse, this is now a pikey build lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/294.JPG
And started bolting things to my fresh new recon head. Collected this yesterday, it's a GM casting early head, which has been aqua blast cleaned, fully pressure tested, inspected, skimmed and rebuilt with new valves and valve guides. It's from an XE specialist up in Chesterfield called O'Dare Performance. His attitude and workshop were spot on so he may get more business in the future...
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/295.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/296.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/297.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/298.JPG
ABoresta
12-05-16, 01:24 PM
That head does look good!!!
8valve-craig
12-05-16, 01:57 PM
Should have bought my spare engine.
Bike carb inlet isn't it?
Bike carb inlet isn't it?
Yeah it is Mr Plug.
Craig, offer me an engine immediately after failure and I'll buy it. Offer it me after a hard days graft swapping a piston and I won't lol
Bike carbs Plug, see earlier in WIP for the conversion.
So I'm all done, just some running in for #4 to bed in now.
Bish
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/299.JPG
Bash
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/300.JPG
Bosh
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/301.JPG
Cheap mineral oil to try and help it bed in nicely
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/302.JPG
It starts, it runs, I've set the ignition timing roughly there (10 BTDC idle) so off for a drive today.
totalnova
13-05-16, 09:52 AM
Nice quick turn around.
A week in 4 hours haha hopefully it works otherwise I've already started stripping house's engine he kindly sent me on a pallet.
Good effort for a weeks work that mate.
I would say I'm impressed but we don't do compliments. This is crap. That is all
kevster
13-05-16, 09:01 PM
Good Job mate
bazzap8389
13-05-16, 10:05 PM
As usual you always crack on and don't let bad shit get you down. Nice one mate :thumb:
Compression test results after mini rebuild?
http://www.wcengineering.com/articles/ill/compression.jpg
https://lostcoastoutpost.com/media/uploads/post/14486/57a5f0dd57a47e1bdb441cb7c5efc696.jpg
It has some.
And some dirty diesel smoking!! Just adds to the shonkiness!!!
turbojolt
18-05-16, 09:12 PM
Oooooooooh Harvey knows something about this bodge!?!!?!?!?!?
Mallory Park yesterday, 27 May 2016.
Myself, House and our new Team Shonky recruit Harvey all booked onto a Javelin open pit at Mallory. We'd all never been, and it was a great little circuit which looks boring on paper but technical and quick when out there.
http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk/news/wp-content/themes/motorsport-events/images/mallory-large.jpg
We booked some pit garages and used a load that weren't in use, so took over the place.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/303.JPG
Got some great track time in, sometimes busy but lots of space too. Team shonky on track
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/304.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/305.JPG
Then changing from 5th to 2nd for a hairpin resulted in a funny noise and no drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-KA7IAsGcU&feature=youtu.be
I eventually got bored of sitting there and the marshalls not red flagging the session, I sat there for ages so eventually got out and took a nice photo from up the bank to amuse myself:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/306.JPG
Cracked on with repairs:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/307.JPG
How many people does it take to remove a stubborn CV circlip lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/308.JPG
All sorted, play resumed, lets go kick it's ass again:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/309.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/310.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/311.JPG
Engine survived, so great news there. I have some suspension upgrades planned and really need to learn to heel toe to reduce the strain on the CVs.
Couple of clear laps at the end, I know my lines aren't perfect especially hairpin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pamZpGK8264
And some high speed tripod action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRfSwZd_lZc
Southie
28-05-16, 10:12 AM
Love it and very jealous of your day out, thanks for the videos though as I feel like I've had a joyride with you lol
The Astra looks tidy ;)
The Astra is very tidy, but engine issues shortly after fitting his Shonky sticker meant he fitted right in lol
Southie
28-05-16, 10:22 AM
New sticker needed:
Shonky build quality... enjoy it!
Proper shonky, atleast your wheel didn't fall off!! hahaha
Epic day, Team Shonky Vauxhall are the best.
Looks like a awesome day.
Very good confident driving too. Nice tripoding.
zeifer33
28-05-16, 08:28 PM
Really amazing the diference between trackdays at UK and here...
Really amazing the diference between trackdays at UK and here...
Please elaborate?!
You know I love your tripod <3
zeifer33
30-05-16, 11:39 PM
Please elaborate?!
the most nearby circuit to me is only an 1h by car, ok, and we have 1 maybe 2 event per year, and the event day is easy find 80/100 cars. Well, 80/100 furious monkeys burning wheels jajajajja.
When I see these track vids, seems like race heaven, jajajaja
^^^^ Rubbish!! Atleast UK trackdays have some sort of order!!
So why do I always blow inner CV joints on the passenger side?
First off wind down the spring platform so I can achieve 'compressed state' position of the left suspension:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/312.JPG
Jack it up (using one of my old destroyed pistons lol) to simulate bump or hard braking squat, check the shaft angle:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/313.JPG
Inner CV replaced with a brand new greaseless one, it doesn't *look* that bad on the face of it:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/314.JPG
But measuring where the ball sat at the bottom showed it was quite far in on the inner race:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/315.JPG
Mock up spare ball bearing to show where the measurement means it sits:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/316.JPG
Which explains why it munches itself with damage like this (this one's from Mallory)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/317.JPG
I'm investigating a 10mm longer shaft, which I can hopefully have in prior to the next trackday...
I'll be at PV show tomorrow if anyone wants to come over and say hello.
BRoadGhost
11-06-16, 07:36 PM
You could have grooves machined +8MM at each end of said shaft effectively making it 16MM longer like I did. ~ I'll have to post a picture of a hollow shaft when back from shot peening.
Darn Novas, what a faff.
Nice write up & hopefully a longer shaft will stop you breaking it.
I'll be at PVS but I won't be saying hello to you
You could have grooves machined +8MM at each end of said shaft effectively making it 16MM longer like I did. ~ I'll have to post a picture of a hollow shaft when back from shot peening.
16mm may be a little too long. Did some basic maths to put the balls in the middle. 8mm at one end may work but would have thought it weakens it as much less going into the CV?
The back up plan is a spacer behind the CV to push that in a few mm.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
BRoadGhost
12-06-16, 04:09 PM
When you look how far the shaft end protrudes once located on the standard groove, you'll see it was never right to begin with :0
Nice detective work. I hope a longer shaft fixes the issue.
@Iain , Are you using the camber plates to get a better angle on the GAZ Coils as I cant lower my springs as much as yours as otherwise they start rubbing in the tyre and the wheel, do you have the same issue as well ?
I run a 7" open spring to clear the tyre it sits just above the tyre.
Edit: I'm going to order some 6" for my next spring choice to have plenty of room
RallyMarshal
14-06-16, 04:03 PM
I always ran a 6mm thick washer on the inside of the hub to stop the excess plunge on my Nova. Wasnt running anything like the power you are though..
Paul..
Good info Paul cheers, these shafts were custom made for me based on some other existing shaft dimensions so if I can it makes sense to fix it "properly" with a longer shaft. Seen a 10mm spacer on eBay meant for Saab converted Astras but would run into issues with the split pin hole there.
Do it properly, new shafts.
Novarally140016v
14-06-16, 07:31 PM
Hi, in my nova rally car I have to put spacers on the inside of the hub to stop the excess plunge. You have to do this on the harry hockley F20 shafts that i have fitted. You remove the coil spring and put the suspension through entire travel and measure the plunge. It should be between 18mm and 12mm at all suspension travel. Any more than this and the inner CV will run to far out, any closer then you run the risk of bottoming out the CV and destroying the diff.
It should be between 18mm and 12mm at all suspension travel. Any more than this and the inner CV will run to far out, any closer then you run the risk of bottoming out the CV and destroying the diff.
Decent info, you can plan the shaft length now!!!
Thanks sir. Is that measured to the centre of the ball bearing and from the outer edge of the inner race? My measurement was about 21mm I think I remember.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Novarally140016v
14-06-16, 08:06 PM
Thanks sir. Is that measured to the centre of the ball bearing and from the outer edge of the inner race? My measurement was about 21mm I think I remember.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
the easiest way to measure it is have the driveshaft fitted to the car, with all the suspension geometry set up as you are going to use it. Undo the driveshaft nut and push drivehshaft all the way in till the inner CV bottoms out. Using a vernier measure the distance from the end of the outer CV to a point on the hub. Then tighten driveshaft and measure the same distance. The difference between the two is the plunge.
I hope this makes sence?
Kinda does. So the two measurements should be within 12-18mm ideally. I suspect mine will be a lot more than that. This is all applicable to big block CV?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Novarally140016v
15-06-16, 05:32 PM
Kinda does. So the two measurements should be within 12-18mm ideally. I suspect mine will be a lot more than that. This is all applicable to big block CV?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
not exactly. The actual numbers do not matter the difference between the driveshaft pushed fully in and the driveshaft nut tight should be between 12 to 18mm.
Thanks for the info. Also found a thread on Mig where Chris Astley mentions 15mm. Where did these numbers come from?
I've measured the inner CV total available travel as 40-42mm.
Drivers side is 22 mm at full droop, 25 mm on the bump stop and 26 mm at sitting height. This one has never posed an issue.
Passenger side that pops is 34 mm at droop, 40 mm on the bump stop and 39 mm at ride height. (Edited from 26 at droop hence comments below)
From this I suspect a 20 mm longer short shaft would be ideal based on 40 mm available travel unless anyone can justify the 12-18 mm measurement.
Novarally140016v
19-06-16, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the info. Also found a thread on Mig where Chris Astley mentions 15mm. Where did these numbers come from?
I've measured the inner CV total available travel as 40-42mm.
Drivers side is 22 mm at full droop, 25 mm on the bump stop and 26 mm at sitting height. This one has never posed an issue.
Passenger side that pops is 26 mm at droop, 40 mm on the bump stop and 39 mm at ride height.
From this I suspect a 20 mm longer short shaft would be ideal based on 40 mm available travel unless anyone can justify the 12-18 mm measurement.
I was told the numbers 12mm to 18mm by Harry hockley Motorsport.
Are you running the same suspension geometry both sides?
14mm difference on one side to the other seems a bit excessive, considering you have 4mm difference on other side from full droop to bump stop?
I would not be making the shaft 20mm longer, you need a minimum of 12mm otherwise you risk the driveshaft bottoming out which will destroy the diff.
I would not be making the shaft 20mm longer, you need a minimum of 12mm otherwise you risk the driveshaft bottoming out which will destroy the diff.
Am I not right in thinking that, if the CV has 40mm of available plunge you would want to see a max of 20mm plunge whilst at normal ride height, this would put the race in the middle of it's available travel and able to move 20mm out and also 20mm in?! So if Iain has seen 39mm at ride height then the CV is almost at it's outer limit of travel and isn't able to come out any further and this explains it's disintegration.
If the shaft is 15mm longer, then the plunge at ride height would be 24mm putting it nearer the middle of the available travel, would it not?!
I was told the numbers 12mm to 18mm by Harry hockley Motorsport.
Are you running the same suspension geometry both sides?
14mm difference on one side to the other seems a bit excessive, considering you have 4mm difference on other side from full droop to bump stop?
I would not be making the shaft 20mm longer, you need a minimum of 12mm otherwise you risk the driveshaft bottoming out which will destroy the diff.
Edited the numbers no idea where I got 26 from.
So with a minimum of 34 a 20 mm longer shaft would indeed be fine.
a 20 mm longer shaft would indeed be fine.
lol bet that's what all the boys say :)
Very poor quality photos, for which I am sorry. Both cameras dead.
After Mallory I noticed some wear on the outer edge of my slicks. Better geometry needed. Problem was I couldn't really do much on my current set up.
New kit arrived in the post:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/318.JPG
Old kit off. Spec was strengthened bottom arms, one piece SuperPro bushes, spherical bearing tiebar brackets, GSi ARB with Powerflex bushes.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/319.JPG
New kit on, it's all a direct fit bar the bottom arm hole which needs enlarging to 1/2" (is about 10mm standard I think). This can be drilled out with the engine fitted handily.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/320.JPG
With new Lemforder ball joints (available from EuroCarParts/CarParts4Less)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/321.JPG
Some caster can be gained with this kit, as can be seen by how far forward the wheel is:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/322.JPG
DIY turn plate made up for geometry set ups and caster measurements, thick steel plate with grease inbetwee and skateboard griptape on top:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/323.JPG
20 degree markings added, so I can lock the wheel from 20 degrees left to 20 degrees right:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/324.JPG
I extended the lower arm fully but still did not gain the camber I needed, so I've filed more of the turrets and brought the eccentrics further inwards.
Before:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/325.JPG
After:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/326.JPG
This has put me just shy of 1.5 degrees camber on both sides, about 2 degrees positive caster (this sounds low based on the tiebar being fully wound in, so either I've measured wrong or I'm miles off getting the targetted 4 degrees?). I'll reset the toe back to 1mm toe out and test drive it.
Booked onto Cadwell Park 8th July which will be a good test for it.
Thanks to Ben at 'Hangar 30' for the suspension arms and pre/during/after sales service and abuse. lol
Nice piece of kit Iain. where did you buy from? been looking into this for mine. How come you staying with the standard ball joints?
why do you want 4 degree of camber? that much camber results in less traction on the straights. the thing you want to gain is caster, more caster results in more camber in corners and that's the place where you need the camber ;).
Nice piece of kit Iain. where did you buy from? been looking into this for mine. How come you staying with the standard ball joints?
Guy called Ben, PM me if you want his contact details. It's the same kit Jonlem was selling a while back.
I don't know what I've got to gain from uniballs in all honesty, they don't give any more adjustment and cause grief with big block outer CVs and their retention nuts.
why do you want 4 degree of camber? that much camber results in less traction on the straights. the thing you want to gain is caster, more caster results in more camber in corners and that's the place where you need the camber ;).
That's what I said good sir. I have 1.5 degrees camber which I'm happy with, and was aiming for up to 4 degrees caster as per the Nova build manual.
Nice bit of kit :) Can't wait to see how it improves on track performance.
Southie
28-06-16, 09:04 PM
Looking good iiiiiaiiin, will it take some setting up to get right on different tracks you race at?
Very poor quality photos, for which I am sorry. Both cameras dead.
After Mallory I noticed some wear on the outer edge of my slicks. Better geometry needed. Problem was I couldn't really do much on my current set up.
But its a race car, tyres arnt meant to wear even. If you go for perfect wear across the board then you may aswell have stuck to standard suspension. :tard::confused:
Wear on the outer edge means it's rolling over the outside edge of the tyre and not using the full contact patch. Do you seriously think you'd wear a tyre perfectly evenly on a track on standard suspension?
Looking good iiiiiaiiin, will it take some setting up to get right on different tracks you race at?
I've always avoided changes per track so I'm going to find what feels good and stick with it. I'm only a novice driver on a track day doubt I could tell the difference tweaking between tracks!
But its a race car, tyres arnt meant to wear even. If you go for perfect wear across the board then you may aswell have stuck to standard suspension. :tard::confused:
He just wanted an excuse to buy it!!!
Anyway, wear on the outer edge is caused by a lack of camber and caster, meaning the tyre is riding onto the outer edge during cornering and as Iain says not applying the full contact patch to the track surface.
This would happen on standard suspension also, it would in-fact be worse on standard suspension, the only way to solve it is add camber and caster, either with eccentric top mounts or the aforementioned suspension set-up.
With the addition of either of these 2 things mechanical grip would be vastly improved, the suspension kit more so.
Does look good on yours!! I was gonna get a similar kit but you didn't want me to copy you.
Guy called Ben, PM me if you want his contact details. It's the same kit Jonlem was selling a while back.
I don't know what I've got to gain from uniballs in all honesty, they don't give any more adjustment and cause grief with big block outer CVs and their retention nuts.
Thanks mate will pm you when I look at doing it. Yea that is true, surely stronger tho if your running slicks? my trackrod ends where a bit of a pain and iv seen the bottom ball joint conversions are the same to be honest.
Just keep a spare set of new ball joints in the track day box, cheap, easy to change. win win
http://www.santafegarage.com/precision-alignments/camber-explained/
interesting read
Wear on the outer edge means it's rolling over the outside edge of the tyre and not using the full contact patch. Do you seriously think you'd wear a tyre perfectly evenly on a track on standard suspension?
i didnt say on track, having perfect tyre wear is what people desire on road cars, which means comprimising on handling and performance.
wear on the outside edge doesnt only mean its rolling over, is your track set up to toe in? all circuits are differant and are going to affect the tyres in ways you wont be able to foresee unless you use that particular circuit often. I mean look at the F1, they practice all day friday, qualify on the saturday and still can get undue tyre wear on the sunday.
I'm not far behind F1 in terms of my vehicle set up capabilities.
It's set up slightly toe out. It was previously 0.75 degrees camber and not much caster, now it's at 1.5 degrees. The competition build manual says to run more camber than I was, and am, doing. The Michelin slick manuals also suggest more too from what I remember.
I've been using these slicks on track for years so I'm optimistic I'm doing the right thing. And if it doesn't work out too well, I can dial it back in a bit, no biggie.
8valve-craig
29-06-16, 08:14 AM
I bet you are glad you took the time to update the thread now Iain.
I'm not far behind F1 in terms of my vehicle set up capabilities.
It's set up slightly toe out. It was previously 0.75 degrees camber and not much caster, now it's at 1.5 degrees. The competition build manual says to run more camber than I was, and am, doing. The Michelin slick manuals also suggest more too from what I remember.
I've been using these slicks on track for years so I'm optimistic I'm doing the right thing. And if it doesn't work out too well, I can dial it back in a bit, no biggie.
fair enough, whats your rear set up to?
when I eventually get round to sort my geo. out I may buy the tie bar set up from ben as my front caster while being slammed is uber poor.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z24/bachilds1988/BCD_7598_zpstzzqibfs.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/bachilds1988/media/BCD_7598_zpstzzqibfs.jpg.html)
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z24/bachilds1988/BCD_7599_zpscjvhclzn.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/bachilds1988/media/BCD_7599_zpscjvhclzn.jpg.html)
My rear is 0-30 minutes neg camber depending on the side, and approx 40 minutes toe in. Thanks for the pictures, I was slightly concerned about the rear toe but looks like yours is pointing quite a bit inwards too.
put washers under two of the wheel bolts, It'll give more cambers and toes.
put washers under two of the wheel bolts, It'll give more cambers and toes.
I hope to god you mean stub axle bolts or I'm in for a wobbly ride lol
I hope to god you mean stub axle bolts or I'm in for a wobbly ride lol
Potatoe potato lol
Love them arms kits. Does Jonlem not make them anymore?
Really love the homemade slide plates. Very god thought, making setup easy.
I bet you are glad you took the time to update the thread now Iain.
I actually spat Magners everywhere when I read this, Craig you owe me a beer!!!
8valve-craig
29-06-16, 07:59 PM
Il just sort you out a Nova shell instead if that's OK.
Seriously though, enough with all the negativity (no pun intended). You can count on one hand the number of Nova's on this site that actually get used on track, those owners generally know what does and doesn't work.
My rear is 0-30 minutes neg camber depending on the side, and approx 40 minutes toe in. Thanks for the pictures, I was slightly concerned about the rear toe but looks like yours is pointing quite a bit inwards too.
I do plan on getting some camber shims to alter the camber and toe, be nice to have them both closer to the same setting.
Il just sort you out a Nova shell instead if that's OK.
Seriously though, enough with all the negativity (no pun intended). You can count on one hand the number of Nova's on this site that actually get used on track, those owners generally know what does and doesn't work.
Soz bro.
It's slightly more important to get the thrust as low as possible than to get each side perfect front back
Don't think I can do thrust angles with my crappy single axle alignment gear, it's been a while since it was 4-wheel set up lol
Initial test drive is VERY good, it aggressively self centers the wheel and turn in is so much sharper and precise.
Going to order some higher poundage springs and take them to Cadwell on 8th as suspect it would benefit from being a bit stiffer now I don't have a front ARB.
8valve-craig
01-07-16, 12:06 PM
Glad to hear it. have a drive at Cadwell, then get the rear shimmed and toeing out a bit for the next day, see what you prefer.
Love them arms kits. Does Jonlem not make them anymore?
Really love the homemade slide plates. Very god thought, making setup easy.
I've never made them, just sold them as Ben who makes them ( owns red nova I've posted about ) was employed working for someone and I just dealt with supplying them as he never had the time, he has now set up his own business doing fabrication etc.
Good to see the cars going well Iain
Cheers Jonlem, Ben seems easy to deal with so will probably get some more custom in the near future.
So I went to Cadwell on the 8th July. It was a glorious day.
Final bit of trackday prep was to stop my inner CV exploding with the use of a (temporary) 10mm plunge spacer from Hockly
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/327.JPG
Sits on the CV like so:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/328.JPG
And it totally worked. No CV explosions and red flags caused by me!
Onto the trackday, we arrived late afternoon on the Thursday and set up camp, hiding my BBQ from the wind with bins lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/329.JPG
Then after some burnt vegetarian burgers we went for a romantic walk and discussed racing lines like we actually knew what we were doing lol Ah well it fooled us lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/330.JPG
The sun was setting over Cadwell Park and the atmosphere was romantic to say the least.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/331.JPG
The morning view from my Tent-a-Volvo, oh dear not quite so nice:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/332.JPG
It soon filled up with a variety of cars:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/333.JPG
All was well, we were both lapping well and no mechanical problems all morning.
At lunch House went off to feed himself while I pretended to know what I was doing again, and swapped out my front springs from 325lb/7" to 375lb/6":
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/334.JPG
The difference was great. Having lost my front ARB, the extra poundage kept the car a lot more level. Toe was (roughly) maintained by measuring from the floor to a set point on the arch and adjusting the platform to be the same with the new springs.
I got my moneys worth out of this set of slicks but I'm now due a new set lol Just ordered some more of the same, Michelin S9C part worns:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/335.JPG
If the video linked below isn't exciting enough, here's an inevitable fail. The wheel wasn't quite centered on the way back to the pits after this, so I hope it's just toe settings and nothing worse!
Camera dropped so dodgy white balance unfortunately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rslRTnYMkU0
I have tonnes of sensible video footage, but this is some of the more interesting driving (probably sloppier lines too but oh well lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdcaar93xx8
Team Shonky now hiring spaces available
Team Shonky now hiring spaces available
Errrr Team Shonky is my team, I'm taking the name with me. Get your own name.
Ummm vegetarian? Do I need to reserve space on the BBQ?
I'll have to dig out a pic of a similar spacer a local lad knocked up for s similar issue. You will chuckle !
turbojolt
11-07-16, 10:01 PM
I need a shonky gm sticker for the saab
I need a shonky gm sticker for the saab
Replaced me already and after that great head I gave him.
Honestly, you think you know someone
turbojolt
11-07-16, 10:20 PM
Replaced me already and after that great head I gave him.
Honestly, you think you know someone
So seedy I love it lmfao
Good work!
Glad to hear that everything is working as expected....and you have solved the CV explosion problem. Thanks, that saves me some work.
I still have a 20 mm longer shaft on order to fix it properly without extra angle on the CVs. :) It has been good learning how to measure plunge though.
Ummm vegetarian?
Yes Iain loves his vegetables, cabbage especially. Where House loves a good meaty sausage nom nom nom.
Can I have my spare inner CVs back & my long nose pliers please Iain? Bring then to Billing as I cba to pop round & I know your always too busy to bring them back.
Luckily nothing bent but loose ball joint bolts explain the knackered steering after the spin.
https://youtu.be/cjKWx5TGls8
I'll be at Billing Sunday potentially with nova if anyone fancies saying hello.
BRoadGhost
12-07-16, 07:44 PM
Yeah a fairly big moment there on track; love the catch on the longer video however!
I'll be at Billing Sunday potentially with nova if anyone fancies saying hello.
I'll be at Billing but I wont be saying hello to you.
I shall keep my eye out for a shonky yellow Nova with vegetables inside
I shall keep my eye out for a shonky yellow Nova with vegetables inside
lollollol
Luckily nothing bent but loose ball joint bolts explain the knackered steering after the spin.
https://youtu.be/cjKWx5TGls8
That is just what mine did. Changed lanes on a roundabout with out me steering. Scarey as funk.
BRoadGhost
13-07-16, 10:54 PM
Well the idea is to hold the steering wheel when cornering
8valve-craig
18-07-16, 02:02 PM
Have you worked out what I stole from this car at Billing yet?
All my good ideas and ingenuity.
turbojolt
18-07-16, 04:07 PM
Much like you done with the rear bumper!!!
Went to Bedford Autodrome last month. Car didn't feel overly great and wasn't really suited to the circuit so no interesting footage to show.
Will be taking the car to Mallory again on the 2nd Sept so I've prepped the car ready for that. Should be a good turnout of Novas.
The car is now on 375lb front springs and 300lb rear. I've removed the inline bias valve to the rear and put Carbon Lorraine RC6+s in the front Wilwoods and bled through wtih new Millers 300+ fluid. They feel very good on a road test.
Cosmetically I've changed the look a bit and gone for unpainted grey bumpers. Mirror caps and skirts are painted in UPOL mid grey until I can source some unpainted ones.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/336.JPG
Rainlight is now mounted under the bumper for ease
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/337.JPG
Bumper is de-ironed and mounted on M12 and M10 bolts with a 4mm hole drilled in them and an R clip.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/338.JPG
Front is the same. Astra mk4 splitter.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/339.JPG
Mirror caps and skirts in UPOL mid grey until unpainted ones can be sourced.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/340.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/341.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/342.JPG
Also trying a helmet hammock for somewhere safe to put the helmet between sessions.
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/343.JPG
Very tidy work sir. Hopefully see you Friday afternoon if mine doesn't go pop getting mapped in the morning.
Mallory 02/09/2016
Great day out with Andrew, Craig and House off PNG. Nice to meet Jonlem too despite him butchering my Volvo vacuum hoses for emergency repairs on the day lol
My changes worked very well:
Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads - awesome, brakes felt great all day
300lb rear spring rates (375 front) - very planted feeling with a bit of damping increase front and rear
Pitted with House and Andrew, Craig went all posh and nabbed a garage
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/344.JPG
Jonlem's friend/apprentice/relative/lover (not sure which lol) captured a few shots which can be found here: http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?213815-Mallory-Park-2-9-16-pictures-featuring-a-few-PNG-users&p=2293973
Couple of my beasty from the pics since it's my WIP lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Jatec/Mallory%20Park%20track%20day%20Sept/402FE979-FE1B-4BAA-B9CE-0292BAEFF940_zpsiql3ur29.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Jatec/Mallory%20Park%20track%20day%20Sept/D4B39007-EAFD-44F0-B767-C8DE5B4092AD_zpsfcktymyn.jpg
I was capturing footage all day, this is the most interesting I've got where I'm chasing Craig around. Fair play that car shifts and I generally only caught it when traffic was involved!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f7BdgILcQY
And if you watched the video all the way through, you'll notice a tonne of Novas all attempting to settle their positions down a very short straight at about 3 min 20 sec lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/345.JPG
Was a great day!!
Would have liked to have come along ,but gearbox said no lol
8valve-craig
04-09-16, 09:53 AM
Super day had by all, nice to meet you again Iain. Thanks for filming our little session and the passenger ride in yours. It's an impressive car and safe to say I totally underestimated it.
Super day had by all
Do they have super unleaded?!
Fuel is available next to the JCB.
But do they have super unleaded?
From around 9.30am.
Classic!!!!!
AndrewC
05-09-16, 11:56 AM
Do they have super unleaded?!
Fuel is available next to the JCB.
But do they have super unleaded?
From around 9.30am.
Classic!!!!!
I can confirm why he was dodging the question....there was no super unleaded. Fortunately my thirsty carbs didn't really seem to notice the difference from V Power...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looked a great day out, awesome to see so many novas on the track at once.
Blyton Park on Sunday with the astra crew! No upgrades to try out just going to go rag it about
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Iain or should that be 'hot and delicious' at Blyton Park on Sunday 18th September. It was a fun packed day had by all but House was a let down and cancelled so missed all the action...shame on you.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/20160918_070025%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/20160918_071944%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/20160918_082639%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2230%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2244%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2259%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2269%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2277%20Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/harvey.emsley/GTE%2016v/Blyton_Sep_2016/IMG_2281%20Small.jpg
Thanks to my new sponsor Pizza. Hot and delicious.
nova_stee
21-09-16, 08:25 PM
Whats full slicks like compared to some treads like a r888
How did you get on Iain without your mate to show you the racing lines !
Whats full slicks like compared to some treads like a r888
More sticky and more grip than R888. I was near the limit of the grip for the R888 that my Astra was wearing due to excessive heat while Hot & Delicious just stuck to the road.
How did you get on Iain without your mate to show you the racing lines !
He followed me until he got bored then the slicks gripped and off he went.
Whats full slicks like compared to some treads like a r888
From what I've seen more consistent, better heat tolerance, last longer and grip better.
Whats full slicks like compared to some treads like a r888
Night and Day mate.
I used slicks for the first time at Bedford a few months ago and although it's hard to describe, the slicks feel more connected to the road, much less sideways movement, so much more confidence on them.
I tried the 888's again at the first session at Mallory the other week in the damp and was so horrified with how they felt immediately came back in and went out on the damp track with the slicks and there was more grip and more confidence on the slicks.
With slicks I was 3 seconds a lap up on my time with 888's
The real test will be Cadwell where I know I can do a 1.52 on 888's but Iain can do a 1.43 on slicks, I'm hoping to get close to his time as our cars are quite similar in setup now.
You should be faster than IaIn just because,
As per Harvey's pictures, 18th was Blyton Park with some mk2 Astra donor cars.
Great day, car performed well, had no improvements to test but good to see what the geometry, rosejoints etc had improved around a well known circuit.
Brakes were performing well, up until I had none. The pedal bit several inches lower than normal, resulting me bailing out of a chicane while trying to show Paul how good my brakes were lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec1CpbTVW_o&feature=youtu.be
Up for investigation
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/346.JPG
Oh dear the fluid's not looking too healthy
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/347.JPG
A bleed through with fresh fluid and they performed well for the rest of the day. I'll look at fluid with higher boiling point, probably Motul 660.
Here's a better lap when the brakes were fixed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObJ7M7EeK6Y&feature=youtu.be
Shortly into the video you may notice I clip an apex a bit too 'well', it's only a cone but it managed to bend my M10 side bumper mounts and push the bumper up the wing, oops lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/348.JPG
They're so flimsy in that corner lol Iv had to chop my bumper and wing so when I tap somebody I don't split my tyres
Your very confident out there and so relaxed. You almost make it look easy. Wish mine handled that well.
BRoadGhost
10-10-16, 10:39 PM
Good lines & looking fast; thanks for video!
Took it to Donington on the 5th.
Car performed well all day, it's mechanically very reliable now. The new Motul 660 fluid in the front discoloured a lot less than the Millers and worked well.
Here's a good reason why they insist on rollover protection on slicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrDZhjZYvCA&feature=youtu.be
I picked up a fibreglass bootlid from a fellow trackdayer too so will update when I get that fitted.
bazzap8389
07-11-16, 08:27 AM
Oof defs looked like it was away to go over!
Well handled tho. Full on drift too. I thought the slicks would help keep grip. Or is it a case of when they go, they fully go.
I think the car was still set up to provoke some oversteer from the summer. Cold track and struggling to get heat into the rears meant it looked RWD for most corners lol
Well handled tho. Full on drift too. I thought the slicks would help keep grip. Or is it a case of when they go, they fully go.
yep, you tend to have grip GRIP GRIPPPPP and then nothing lol
Iain, bet your botty bit a hole in the seat lol
BRoadGhost
07-11-16, 09:00 PM
I see a girl
I see a girl
Driving? No that's just how he looks!!!
What slicks and compound do you run Iain?
total_vauxhall
27-11-16, 09:59 PM
Looks like it could have been expensive .
Michelin S9C which are quite a hard compound. Second hand and easily sourced. They last quite a few track days :)
Michelin S9C which are quite a hard compound. Second hand and easily sourced. They last quite a few track days :)
Thanks mate. I've found a few sets available second hand 👍
When you guys next out?
Hmm probably early next year no plans yet! Part of the fun is camping out the night before.
Plenty available usually about 200 for four. They last me a good few track days
Where do you get them from, Iain ?
Just a few eBay sellers mate, no special contacts. Team up with a mate and get 8 to make it a bit cheaper. Some of them are a bit messy/peeled but scrub up fine with our use.
They could probably really do with a 7J wheel (and arch work) but they do work on 6J.
Awesome ! Thank you and good luck, will keep an eye on the progress (and use some of the ideas if you do not mind)
Last outing at Donington I picked up a fibreglass bootlid, second hand but unused/boxed. Just finished fitting it over the past month or so.
First off, it has captive nuts to bolt on original hinges, which Paul kindly let me relieve off a mk2 Astra bootlid which shares the same hinge mechanism:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/349.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/350.JPG
This resulted in a shocking panel gap lol
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/351.JPG
Standard Nova car-side hinge got ground back, crushed in a vice and shaped to avoid the boot-side bolt heads:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/352.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/353.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/354.JPG
Boot inner skin got cut out for access and more weight saving:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/355.JPG
Aerocatches fitted (also a second hand bargain lol)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/356.JPG
These were modified so the pin could be mounted horizontally:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/357.JPG
Knocked up a professional spray booth lol My first attempt at gun painting, it's 2k primer, flatted then 3 coats of colour-matched 2k paint (my car is miles off the Glacier White it's supposed to be lol):
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/358.JPG
Inside pins are taken care of with two shaped pieces of 3mm metal, edges curved to stop the plate flexing:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/359.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/360.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/361.JPG
Also in the above pictures are a much smaller boot seal that was required as the gap between the boot and car is much less than the steel item.
Finished product now with window fitted, Very happy with the paint considering it's my first DIY paint job. I think I'll re-apply the Sport-esque graphics I had on the last one:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/NovaWIP2b/362.JPG
totalnova
15-01-17, 06:15 PM
Looks good, what sort of weight saving would you gain from this?
The bare fibreglass bootlid comes in at 4kg. Not weighed the standard one yet but I've read it's around the 11-12kg mark bare. Also get to ditch the lock mechanism strut etc. Another benefit is being able to open the boot with the engine running - I couldn't with my early boot due to the lock style.
Lid is white, looks good with the yellow of the body
turbojolt
15-01-17, 08:14 PM
Doors and wings next
BRoadGhost
15-01-17, 10:29 PM
Can't beat a good replacement panel!
https://i.imgflip.com/1hpyg2.jpg
Lid is white, looks good with the yellow of the body
Cost me a fair amount extra to have a litre of random creamy grey white mixed up lol
The thought of doors scare me without proper rollcage X's in the sides.
Lock hole, because racecar lol
turbojolt
16-01-17, 03:47 PM
Extra cage will more then likely out weigh the savings then
Nice job, good work on making it fit. Some of these FB items fit so badly its unreal.
brainsnova
16-01-17, 09:36 PM
Nice job, good work on making it fit. Some of these FB items fit so badly its unreal.
Yeah some bits you've got to wonder what they took the mould from
NovalutionGSi
17-01-17, 12:48 PM
Cost me a fair amount extra to have a litre of random creamy grey white mixed up lol
The thought of doors scare me without proper rollcage X's in the sides.
Lock hole, because racecar lol
What shows you taking it too... so we can prove the yellowy whitey greyness....
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