My Nova 16v Project

[spanishfly]

What angles are your driveshafts going to be running at? Really intrigued on the low-ness... I'm hoping you'll tell me your lowering the engine (I so wanna do mine, but would be a right ball ache mission, gearlinkages etc...)

[trackdaynova]

Driveshaft angles aren't going to be as horizontal as I would like them, or as they were, but that is a sacrafice I've had to make as there is no other alternative, other than running smaller wheels which would only drop the outer edge by 0.5" if I drop to 14s, which I can't do due to brake size anyway lol

I do have plenty of spare CVs as and when they go, but I've been lucky with this Nova as not one has gone yet - which is quite impressive still being on 1600 shafts and CVs :thumb: and the plate diff doesn't give them an easy time lol

So been out in the garage for a couple of hours tonight, removing all the bits and bobs that Me (and James hopefully) will be doing tomorrow night...

Up in the air, is still a ball ache to do in a single garage with minimal room either side lol, but I manage... can't wait for alloy jack & sill stand ness lol
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1106.jpg

One leg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1107.jpg

Tried to see if there was enough room to move the topmount inwards, and there seems to be a good 10mm before the angle changes, so we should be able to slice off the inner side of the topmount :thumb:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1108.jpg

Soon to be replaced standard track rod end
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1109.jpg

Just for those that were unsure of how the new RJ'd ones will fit
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1110.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1111.jpg

This bolt used it purely for illustrative purposes, it is NOT the bolt supplied with the kits lol, obviously the M12 bolt will not pass through my hub at the moment as it's not been opened out, some are deciding to run them above the hub ala a standard TRE which is fine


Alternatively you can run them below, which I intend on doing, without a spacer like this
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1113.jpg

[trackdaynova]

an empty space
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1114.jpg

filthy dirty horrible underseal/ waxoyl crap
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1115.jpg

cleaned up and lines marked, however existing bolt holes used are no longer needed, but we know just in case
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1116.jpg


bump stops cut down to an 1", just incase my shocks ever do drop that low, I'd sooner use the last of the shocker, as opposed to hitting a polybush, but I seriously doubt it'll happen anyway
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1117.jpg

All cleaned up ready for tomorrow
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1118.jpg

Outer diameter of a standard Spax spring platform is 61mm, this will be put on a lather down to 58.2mm
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1119.jpg

Tapered insert that will be drilled out to 12mm
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1120.jpg

Machine shop bits for the morning
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1121.jpg


Thats it for tonight, springs are being delivered tomorrow - so should get it all done, fine and dandy :)

Hope you've enjoyed my ramblings lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

I did enjoy it! Looks good Olz and fair play for sorting all that out in such a short space of time and i'm all set for tomorrow night!

Thought i'd treat you and bring my low entry jack along so you can have a play!

[Adam]

Good work as ever

[Paul]

Good going mate!

[Pistol Pete]

Top job Olly. With jobs like the above, pictures speak a thousand words.

[Rick Draper]

Second to that, they no longer sell the double adjustability ones with the remote canister for rebound rates as they said "it was just a gimmick" and didn't do too much anyway.

Maybe the new owners of Leda should try speaking to Proflex or Ohlins as they clearly know more than them lol

[The Simps]

Bring on the progress!!

Never been tempted by an equal shaft setup?

[trackdaynova]

Jeeeeeesus, thanks all lol :D

Rick - I totally agree with you, for them to say "it was only a gimmick" means they have to find a reason why they don't do them anymore lol

Si - I don't experience uncontrollable torque steer, and that'd be the only reason I'd fit them, and also it's too costly, as I'm still on "small" hubs.

If I continually snap the small shafts, or CVs, which I haven't been... then I'll upgrade to big equal length shafts, big CVs and big hubs... again... until then... lol these'll doooo

[nova ian]

Looking good, glad to see everything came apart easily.

Im looking forward to seeing all these changes together, and the improved results

[trackdaynova]

Im looking forward to seeing all these changes together, and the improved resultsMe too, I just hope all my measurements, workings out and calculations work out, and everything is donkey horrey...

They've not failed me to date, so I'm pretty confident, but this is untouched terriroty for me personally... running so low and improving handling in one foul swooop...

[The Simps]

Si - I don't experience uncontrollable torque steer, and that'd be the only reason I'd fit them, and also it's too costly, as I'm still on "small" hubs.

If I continually snap the small shafts, or CVs, which I haven't been... then I'll upgrade to big equal length shafts, big CVs and big hubs... again... until then... lol these'll doooo


Sounds to me like you'e being a bit of a girl and need to step up to more power ;) lol

[trackdaynova]

lol you know what, thats the first time in 202 pages that I've been called a girl lol I must try harder :(

[The Simps]

lol you know what, thats the first time in 202 pages that I've been called a girl lol I must try harder :(


FPMSL lol :thumb:

[corsakid]

top work again ally my springs will hopefully be fitted on the rear today, very keen to see how this all turns out

[ace-media]

Me too, I just hope all my measurements, workings out and calculations work out, and everything is donkey horrey...

Well to even think about doing this sort of stuff is a step in the right direction so i'm sure you'll be fine!

Fair play for putting this work in Ol, seriously impressive developments that i'm sure will help other people out in the future!

Look forward to seeing it done :thumb:

p.s. Will be in touch soon if you fancy a beer?

[trackdaynova]

Cheers Kris :thumb: good luck on your rear setup, any probs just call me :)

Thanks Al, as you know, I'm always up for meeting strange men for drinks, and you definately fall into that category :thumb:

So I'm typing this as I'm currently waiting for 'The Count' to arrive, so we can play tonight lol

Todays progress so far, was as planned really, got to the machine shop nice and early, and had my hubs drilled out to accept the bolt that comes with the RJ steering arms. This is how I intend on running mine
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1122.jpg

Absolutely flawless service from Dave & Andy once again @ Faulkners, I ordered my springs around 3:40pm yesterday, 8:30am this morning UPS was at my door with my new springs!
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1123.jpg

7" open length, 350lb, 2.25" ID
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1124.jpg

Had my spring platforms turned down to 58.1mm
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1125.jpg

Ala w0000sh
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1126.jpg

:)

Will update with Mine & James' antics later lol

[Adam]

Good stuff.
I shall look forward to pics of tonights late night session :)

[trackdaynova]

lol both of our misses' are going out... so by the end of it, we'll be bladdered, sitting in the garage, with nothing done lol


but yeah, still await pics lol

[Adam]

LMAO
You'll both wake up tomorrow lying on the garage floor, surrounded by Carling cans and bits of coilovers lol lol

[fearless]

. This is how I intend on running mine
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1122.jpg




Surely you'll have to run a small spacer between Steering knuckle and rose joint - otherwise you'll have no up/down movement ?:confused:


Dave

[MARTIN KELSON]

Dave i'am surprised you can comment.

Its been that long since youv'e seen or worked on a Nova i'am surprised you even remember what they look like!!!!!!

Martin

[Benn]

Anything else come in the post?lol

[trackdaynova]

Well today I woke up after not much sleep to find a parcel on my doorstep addressed to Olly "Slammed" Hewitt lol Thanks very much Benn for the foam pad for flatting down my panels - much appreciated! Rep+1 :thumb: :)

Dave - totally mate, we cut the spacers in half length ways and fitted them in between the knuckle & RJ :thumb:

I cannot thank James (CountVauxAlot) enough for his help yesterday, to cut a rather long and funny night short, he turned up at mine at 6pm, and departed at 03:10am this morning, although I did offer him a bed for the night, but I think he felt like he wouldn't be able to resist himself.

Woke up this morning to find a text on my phone saying "hi mate, home safe had a great time, right laugh x" looked at the time, 04:18am :eek:

Really enjoyed last night, although not everything went quite according to plan, but thats motorsport for you :thumb: lol

313lbs vs 285lbs vs 350lbs
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1127.jpg


Current topmount positioning
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1128.jpg


Target topmount positioning
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1129.jpg


On with the modifications, over to James who can saw like a bastid lol
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1130.jpg


his mahhooooosive 'Snap-On' half round snap on file made short work of my turrets
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1131.jpg

[trackdaynova]

Cleaned up, wipe down, panel wiped, lick o paint
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1132.jpg


Looking good, retaining standard securing bolts holes
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1133.jpg


Spring seats on
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1134.jpg


Leg on, with shorter springs
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1135.jpg


New rosejointed TRE fitted to rack
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1136.jpg


Perfect filing by James meant it was look swish
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1137.jpg

[trackdaynova]

The slight problem that we encountered, which we will overcome, that moving the top of the shocker (ie: topmount) inwards towards the bay wasn't ever going to move the spring away from the tyre wall. Because it the leg is attached to the hub/ wheel/ tyre at the bottom aswell lol

Excuse my crude drawing, but all we've basically done so far by moving the topmount inwards is this:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1138.jpg

The suspension leg / wheel / tyre distance is obviously still identical, just made me now run -3° negative camber, which isn't so much of a problem, as I can wind in the rosejoints on my TCAs, to bring the bottom of the wheel and bottom ball joint in aswell, which I may do.

But obviously this doesn't cure the clearence problems when running 888s or slicks, Rainsports aren't, and never would be a problem.

So now I intend on getting my suspension leg holes elongated with a diegrinder, so it will enable my leg to lean inwards, but my wheel & hub to remain at -1.5° camber, like so:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1139.jpg


After they've been elongated, and I've got the full positioning that I want, I would welkd a washer around the new hole, thus changing the bolt holes really :thumb:

[Adam]

I never realised what you were actually doing lol
Moving the top mount position is a fix that people do to reduce/change camber(usually re-drilling the turret holes), which youve now found out

[Martin]

didnt Krobinson do a simlar thing with his holes on his old NDZ front chocks?


lookin good

[burgo]

saw you log on at about 3 this morning olly but didnt think you had only just come in lol. fair play tho.
taking a hacksaw to the top mounts takes some balls aswell

[trackdaynova]

WTF were you doing up at 3am this morning? lol

I logged in, then fell sleep on my keyboard, then got in bed lol

Going back out there now to remove all what fitted yesterday to get it sorted lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

Him mate i felt a little tired by the time i got home! It really was no probs helping out and we got loads done be it after a head scratch session or two! I look forward to our next encounter :roll:

Glad to here you have carried on today like a soldier, i have promptly felt the need to tidy my own garage lol

So when are you popping over to do the legs then?? lol

[trackdaynova]

Just in from the garage, again lol

Whipped off the front legs and stripped them down again of topmounts and springs.

Tried using a rats-tail file to elongate the holes, but my hands are killing I've not got anywhere lol :(

I took a grinder to the back of the hub, where the 2x19mm bolts pass through, to ensure that when i push the bottom hole in, that it doesn't foul on the shock body itself, so there should be plenty of clearence now

[lee303]

is it me or are your top mounts upside down? running them like that means the load is on the circlip rather than the shoulder of the mount and thus the mount itself

[Count Vaux Alot]

/\ repost lol lol

[lee303]

ok, but it wont be funny if the circlip ever gives up, or the alloy in the top mount for that matter

[nova ian]

Flippin'ek your pair have been busy!

Shame about the hiccup but opening the holes out on the shocker isn't a hard fix to rectify it.

Sure it will be all sorted in no time:cool:

[hybridturbo]

:wtf: You carnt be running the top mounts like that are you?

Upgrade to the face up ones man

[Adam]

As most people know, Olly's car likes lifting a wheel or two lol, so if the circlip was going to give it would of done then. And he doesn't exactly hang about on track, so any problem would have happened by now surely :)

[Count Vaux Alot]

i would have to concur!

[BRoadGhost]

Be careful Olly that design of top mount has the circlip on the wrong side for running that way up. Bit shocked at the butchery! You can get alloy eccentrics for novas that run the way up you want without the need to cut anything and will give you all the adjustment you'll ever need.

Dialing those in that much will give about 5º- by the looks of it and a handful in a straight line ;o

If you speak to Leda they should be able to hook you up with the nuts I described dawg :)

filing Knuckles is the last thing you want to do (even if it has it in the Haynes manual :o ) you get miles more adjustment doing it with the nuts plus the peace of mind reliability wise too.

[trackdaynova]

lol @ the top mount conversation again, I've only ever ran them this way up with no problems whatsoever, along with plenty of other track orientated cars that I know of...
12 trackdays later, 3 Sprints, TOTB, Quarter miling and plenty of very hard road miles later they're fine.

Hybrid - they are 'face up' ones, as you describe. :confused:

Simon, I have a camber & castor gauge, and running them like that is -3°, and I've previously ever run -2°. So its nothing like -5°. :)

[BRoadGhost]

you could get the struts machined to be like this

http://shutter15.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/05/008/6E/43/C7/3B/fkDDCPu9cPkyZLb8WLyEmN4y-XVT4Hkn0300.jpg

[trackdaynova]

So just by enlarging the top hole you mean?

Machining the back of the knuckles on the hubs is so they don't foul the shock body itself, so not sure why you said "its the last thing you wanna do"...

[lee303]

well, if your happy with the whole of your suspension pushing on a circlip, then cool, but they are not designed to be run that way, and i bet if you ask whoever made them they would not be telling you it'll be fine
and no, i dont agree that just because you've had no problems so far it will be fine
i know you will see this as a dig, but its not, just some friendly advice, and as you are modding the turret at the mo anyways, why not fit them as they are intended?
but as ever, its not my car, so not my decision :beer:

[BRoadGhost]

I say it's the last thing you want to do because you introduce an element open to play should the bolts not be squeezing the strut bottom to it enough.

If you don't machine them out exactly the same (combined with less reference to strut angle inherent of doing this) then you might find getting each side exactly the same quite difficult.

[trackdaynova]

Didn't read it as a dig Lee :thumb: as I know you're only offering friendly advice/ constructve critism, tis whats forums are for! :) totally understand the advice, and I will have a look to see how much more of the turret needs to be removed for me to flip them :thumb:

Simon - not sure if you understand what I meant I was doing, regarding the machining, I meant I am elongating the bottom hole inwards, and the top hole outwards... once I have the clearence from the leg itself, I will then weld a washer around the hole so they cannot move anymore.

I would do the measurements to the side of the bracket on all 8 holes (4 holes per leg, 2 holes per side), to ensure they're the same. ie: top hole 4mm from edge of bracket, bottom hole, 16mm inwards from top of bracket etc...

Once they're set, and I've welded a washer to prevent them from moving (as this is purely for clearence problems) then I still have my RJ TCA and my Ecc TM to get the desired camber I want to be running :thumb:

The hub knuckles themselves, again, thats only to enable me to push the lower hub knuckle further towards the shock... the top one is staying untouched as I'm pulling that one away :)

[Count Vaux Alot]

Much clearer Olly are you making a trip to the machine shop tomorrow?

[hybridturbo]

Hybrid - they are 'face up' ones, as you describe. :confused:

Edit: Yeh you have got the "top up" ones but their still upside down so your not using them to their advantage

[Dar]

Who's got the GTI-6? Very smart person :D I spy with my little eye :D (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1124.jpg)

[krobinson]

didnt Krobinson do a simlar thing with his holes on his old NDZ front chocks?


lookin good

Mine came with an adjustable top hole as standard, At the nurburgring this allowed the knuckle to move. So when I got home I had a metal plate welded over the hole and it drilled out to the correct position.

If you enlarge the hole olly, get it to your desired position and then weld a washer on to stop it moving (like you said you would) :thumb:

[Ash]

Just wondering here, why you want sooo much camber?

[trackdaynova]

I don't, I want -1.5degrees, which is less than I have been running, currently -2degrees.

The moving of the topmount inwards was to create clearence from the sidewall of the slick, and the spring.

[trackdaynova]

Who's got the GTI-6? Very smart person :D I spy with my little eye :D (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1124.jpg)My Jeep now hates you Dar lol

[Ash]

Ah, I see! I miss-read I thought you wanted -5degs! lol

Wouldn't coilovers like these solve the clearance issue?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/peester/SP_A1155.jpg

[trackdaynova]

By the looks from that photo, that'd do exactly what I don't want... ie: making the top of the wheel lean towards the leg, rather than away from, if you get me?

[Iain]

The holes in those aren't parallel with the leg itself (like std?), so it should push the leg in and retain the angle of the wheel...?

Peester had some similar ones from Compbrake IIRC.

[Adam]

They are Peesters,Lol

[trackdaynova]

Iain has just kindly linked me to Peesters thread, which I had obviously replied to, and then forgotten about...

(http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99617)

But I thought it'd do this, with the holes being not above one another

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2295/spa1155aaze7.jpg

[trackdaynova]

Iains just drew a lovely picture for me,

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5367/suspip9.jpg

I suppose my head was just twisting, but I get it now, rather the top hole being closer than standard, the bottom hole is further away - and most people have a set length TCA, it'll work by the bottom ball joint on the hub only holding the lower hole the same distance apart and thus making the leg sit inverted... is that right?

EDIT/ADDED: lol
But then the top hole on the left leg, is elongated to give the ability to add more camber, so why when the right leg gives the same end result does it not? :tard: lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/peester/SP_A1163.jpg

[Count Vaux Alot]

My head hurts.....

[trackdaynova]

Thank god someone elses brain cells are aching, I'm starting to think its me just making myself look like (more of) a tit by not understand this fecking thing.

*goes off to reply to a pm that he read earlier, and forgot to reply to* lol

[Adam]

So, do the slicks still rub the spring even with the short springs on, or have you not tried yet????

[Count Vaux Alot]

Thank god someone elses brain cells are aching, I'm starting to think its me just making myself look like (more of) a tit by not understand this fecking thing.

*goes off to reply to a pm that he read earlier, and forgot to reply to* lol

lol lol lol

Thought you didn't love me any more!!

And no its not just you that has a bald patch through head scratching! :tard:

[trackdaynova]

Adam - yes the side wall of the slicks still rub with the 7" springs on, because I've lowered the spring platforms about 65mm down the threads on the coilover body, PLUS lost an inch on the spring lol (25.4mm) :eek:

[Count Vaux Alot]

Pm replied add me on msn buddy!

[Adam]

You might have to upset Benn and higher it up? lol

[trackdaynova]

I hope thats a joke, or you reallllly don't know what the point of these past 25 pages of my WIP are all about lol

[ace-media]

Right, i'm gonna try and give a teeny tiny bit of proper input here... although I imagine its exactly what you're already doing anyway lmao...

It you elongate the bottom of the two holes on the coilover body 'inwards' you should be able to get a bit of a pivot on the hub sufficient enough to adjust the camber, weld in a washer and have happy thrashing times again...

Rather than doing both holes that is... as would fancy going any closer to the edge on the coilover body tbh...

Can do a picture if you don't get what I mean :)

Oh and beer = yes. But don't call me strange LOL

[nova_niek]

Olly,

as to the subject of camber adjustment: many moons ago I had a pair of camber bolts fitted to the Red Shed. These things (bit like a miniature version of a single lobe camshaft shaped bolt) allow you to alter camber within a certain angle. (see links)

As to what Keith Robinson stated about elongated shock holes: when not done up properly, your setup can wander about a bit. Same will happen with camber bolts, but to a much lesser extent. I've had this happen on the Red Shed, and it proved a bit odd. Retightened the camber bolts, had everything re-aligned, sorted.

http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=194
http://www.performancealloys.com/loweringkits_springs.asp

Hope this helps - well unless you have found a better solution. :)

Cheers,
Niek

[Adam]

I hope thats a joke, or you reallllly don't know what the point of these past 25 pages of my WIP are all about lol
:p :p

[corsakid]

i think what 'ace media' suggests is the best option and i assume this is what olly is planning anyway!

adam why would he higher/rasie the nova when for the last 10/20 pages he has been trying to do the complete opposite and is so close to achieving his desired height,

ive got a little annoyed at some of the comments on this thread regarded the top mounts not sure why lol surely if olly runs his top mounts upside down then its up to him! surely people can see from what hes done with his nova that he fully understands how things work and is fully aware his top mounts arent of the usual orientation! and the risks involved in running them as they are, the top mounts still function, surely that circlip if it were going to 'snap' bend etc
would have done so by now, just my opinion:thumb:

i think this is pretty imformative thread as i can see hes trying/doing something people say cant be done!
which is run his car very low (lower c.o.g) and keeping the geometry pretty much as he had it before it was lowered 3" and still get it to handle and be able to run slicks and big sidewalled tyres (reason imho why so much modifying/ re engineering is involved clearance)

nearly there olly 90 % of the work is done

[Adam]

CorsaKid-Yes, my reply was a joke ;) lol lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

i think what 'ace media' suggests is the best option and i assume this is what olly is planning anyway!

adam why would he higher/rasie the nova when for the last 10/20 pages he has been trying to do the complete opposite and is so close to achieving his desired height,

ive got a little annoyed at some of the comments on this thread regarded the top mounts not sure why lol surely if olly runs his top mounts upside down then its up to him! surely people can see from what hes done with his nova that he fully understands how things work and is fully aware his top mounts arent of the usual orientation! and the risks involved in running them as they are, the top mounts still function, surely that circlip if it were going to 'snap' bend etc
would have done so by now, just my opinion:thumb:

i think this is pretty imformative thread as i can see hes trying/doing something people say cant be done!
which is run his car very low (lower c.o.g) and keeping the geometry pretty much as he had it before it was lowered 3" and still get it to handle and be able to run slicks and big sidewalled tyres (reason imho why so much modifying/ re engineering is involved clearance)

nearly there olly 90 % of the work is done

Nail head job done and well put!

[corsakid]

i never once suggested it was a joke, i saw/read into it as a genuine suggestion and a rubbish one at that imho, thats why i said what i did glad it was a joke lol

count just my opinion :thumb:

[Count Vaux Alot]

It might be just your opinion but IMO you are spot on were as others are further from the mark....

[Benn]

Glad you got the pad dude, didnt send any paper as you said you had some, you've been buzy again, but have done perfect what i was talking about to move the coilover away from the tyre. Good work.

[lee303]

ive got a little annoyed at some of the comments on this thread regarded the top mounts not sure why lol surely if olly runs his top mounts upside down then its up to him! surely people can see from what hes done with his nova that he fully understands how things work and is fully aware his top mounts arent of the usual orientation! and the risks involved in running them as they are, the top mounts still function, surely that circlip if it were going to 'snap' bend etc
would have done so by now, just my opinion:thumb:

i
i guess thats aimed at me, well, just as you have had your opinion, can i not have mine?:wtf:
the top mounts do indeed function, but i'd be impressed if you can prove to me they are designed to run like that, or that a circlip is the best thing to put the load of your entire front strut on, as that is what you are doing running them that way, and as for the 'it would have gone by now', that is a poor excuse tbh, and i would counter that olly has just been lucky so far and none of the above would not help if it does decide to let go at any time
my point is, why take the risk when there is no need to?
anyways, olly has made his opinion clear, and i did say that its up to him as its his car, and if he's happy with them like that then thats cool
maybe, just maybe, you should stop thinking i'm attacking olly and springing to his defence needlessly, its a discussion on a forum, thats all...:thumb:

anyways, sorry to put that sort of thing in your thread olly, good luck with your mods, although for all the work involved i think i would have just lowered the engine in the car and gained a lower c.o.g that way:thumb:

[trackdaynova]

If I can borrow James' uber-awesome Snap-On file so I can do a dead neat job, then I might open out that little bit more to take the knuckle pointing upwards.

As we've established, I no longer use my topmounts for castor adjustment now, so there isn't a need to get full rotation on them anymore.

Actually, turning them the other way up, will lower the car by the height of the knuckle as it'd now be protruding into the bay, rather than below the turret.

Ever since Span' mentioned lowering the engine, it kinda got me thinking about it, but then I think i'd struggle with the manifold on the floor lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

Course you can borrow it! So when are we lowering the engine then?

[ace-media]

Just chop an inch or two out of the depth of the sump Ol... it'll be fine :lol:

Or go dry sump.... ;)

[Martin]

dry sump ftw

[burgo]

in my opinion and i have said this for funking years, olly is running his top mounts the right way and everyone else is wrong!!! i say this because if you run them so that the nipple bit sticks up then you dont get full adjustability which makes them pointless. which surely should ay to anyone they are supposed to go the same way as olly has them. any who i shall be running mine the same way as olly has them as thats how i beleave they shoudl go

[Rick Draper]

in my opinion and i have said this for funking years, olly is running his top mounts the right way and everyone else is wrong!!! i say this because if you run them so that the nipple bit sticks up then you dont get full adjustability which makes them pointless. which surely should ay to anyone they are supposed to go the same way as olly has them. any who i shall be running mine the same way as olly has them as thats how i beleave they shoudl go

You can get 2 different styles. Nipple up circlip down, nipple down circlip down. I had nipples up and circlips down and got full adjustment without cutting the strut tops.

Pics of both are at the top of this link:
http://www.compbrake.co.uk/top_mounts3.htm

[corsakid]

wasnt a dig at you lee :thumb:
was just a dig at the way imho the thread was going with so many people jumpin on the top mount band wagon! and takes away from what a work in progress thread is all about and goes off on a tangent lol
and your right it is just a discussion, and your opinion is as valid as any one elses i wasnt springing to his defence as i am sure he is more than capable of doing so if needed, just thought i would express my opinion i never once said it was ideal the way olly is running them and never said they were designed to be used as hes using them, but its just when people get fixated with something it seems to drag on needlessly! (just like i am doing lol)
just when people say 'oh your strut tops are upside down' like olly is unaware of it, :roll:
and 'cant believe the butchery thats going on with the top mounts' ffs they are only 70 quid there or there abouts, easy and cheap enough to by another set,

imho there are only a few threads on the board then are imformative and very interesting to everyone and this imho is one of them, keep up the good work olly :thumb:

[burgo]

You can get 2 different styles. Nipple up circlip down, nipple down circlip down. I had nipples up and circlips down and got full adjustment without cutting the strut tops.

Pics of both are at the top of this link:
http://www.compbrake.co.uk/top_mounts3.htmi never knew there were two sorts. ive only ever seen them with the circlip on the flat side

[lee303]

fair enough corsakid, like i say, i dont want to have this sort of tit for tat in someones project thread, its what i love about modding cars though, different solutions to probelms and unique cars at the end of it all:thumb:

if you open the turret out a bit , they fit just fine burgo


and olly, are you not gonna run into the same manifold issues lowering the whole car?

[craig green]

Group hug?

[The Simps]

Group hug?


You'd like that wouldn't you! :eek: :roll: lol

[trackdaynova]

and olly, are you not gonna run into the same manifold issues lowering the whole car?I meant lowing the car and the engine lol not one or the other lol

[lee303]

i see lol , i meant you could gain the same effect by just lowering the engine, as the main mass at the front is the engine and box

[Lee]

Im just sat here wondering where this hobby stops being a hobby, and becomes an obsession lol

Lowering the engine? I know I was gutted when they stopped the Supertourers, but I didnt think we were going to actually re-create them!

Fuly carbon interiors and engines straddling the firewalls FTW! lol lol lol

[Mazz]

'ace-media' that's AL iirc...

[lee303]

Im just sat here wondering where this hobby stops being a hobby, and becomes an obsession lol

Lowering the engine? I know I was gutted when they stopped the Supertourers, but I didnt think we were going to actually re-create them!


i just think it would be less work than having to replace wings, alter struts, change sprinsg and steering geometry etc etc

oh, and mine became an obsession ages agolol

[trackdaynova]

I'm with Lee on this one, mine is a healthy obsession too lol

I just like to tinker, and tell people about it - whether or not it makes a difference or not, its all research and development... tis what track cars are all about, having fun, changing bits and bobs - looking for improvements here there and everywhere :thumb:

Lee - it was a lot of hassle I suppose, but along with the lowering the COG, it was a personal gripe of mine with how much it was flying high in the sky, i love the low stance of a car, and with uprating the spring poundage anyway, should significantly help reduce the last bit of excess body roll I have...

Cadwell will be a tester for me, but it's at Donington where I aim to run the slicks and go for my PB lap, should the conditions, and number of cars on the track allow... it's open pit, so I will be able to pick and chose my times to go out and play :)

[trackdaynova]

Lee - was going to PM you, but thought it'd be a good read for others aswell.

In regards to lowering the engine in the bay, how much would be deemed as "worth doing" if you get me, I mean, should it get lowered by 15mm, would that not be worth the effort... and at what point (do you feel) it becomes worth it? or is it a case of, anything is better than currently...

I read on a few pages back Rob (Span) mentioning it, and that got me thinking, he mentioned the gear linkages being an ar.se to sort out, but then I thought if I was to get a Quaife shifter and go direct to turret like yourself, the gear linkage problem would no longer be a problem?

Just thought I'd ask your opinion on the drop... :)

[BIGS]

if you were to lower the engine you could always copy my manifold to help with the problem?

[trackdaynova]

Is yours the 'up and over the gearbox' jobbie?

That'd help me significantly reduce the bayboy, wouldn't it lol

4inches anyone lol

[BIGS]

yea it is, and you still have loads of room behind the engine, and because it came of a btcc car its perfect flow

[trackdaynova]

Pics of your badboy ? lol

I shouldn't go down this route, it sounds expensive dagnabbit, you guys are fecking bad influences! :mad:

[BIGS]

yea ill get a pic just have to find one on pb. but it wouldnt be expensive as you would have one to copy. then you could sell the manifold you got now

If you need better pics just ask

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova012.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova014.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova008.jpg

[Ste L]

pic's of said manifold..

http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/5034/manifold3.jpg

http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/5034/manifold2.jpg

http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/5034/manifold1.jpg

[Count Vaux Alot]

and i've cum!

[Count Vaux Alot]

Pics of your badboy ? lol

I shouldn't go down this route, it sounds expensive dagnabbit, you guys are fecking bad influences! :mad:

Do it do it do it!! :D

[Ste L]

and i've cum!



might need these then lol


http://scottdesignworks.com/portfolio_images/w_toro_blk.jpg

[Adam]

*Voice of reason*
DONT do it
*/Voice of reason*

[Ste L]

*Voice of reason*
DO it
*/Voice of reason*


*Voice of reason*
DO it
*/Voice of reason*


*Voice of reason*
DO it
*/Voice of reason*


*Voice of reason*
DO it
*/Voice of reason*



:thumb:

[trackdaynova]

Adam - you have no grounds as to why you're telling me not to do it, so I couldn't give a foook what you say anyway. lol

James - you game?

[Count Vaux Alot]

yer baby! yer esp if i get to play with a manifold like that i love it!

[trackdaynova]

OK cool - we'll whip the engine out after Donny trackday on 9th November, and play from there :D

[BRoadGhost]

Simply lowering the engine mounts would not be wise on a car of this ride height.

As it stands the driveshafts will be at a big angle.

Tilting the engine forwards while moving it back would be the perfect solution.

[trackdaynova]

lol I think I'll wait until I've actually fixed the job in hand, and it works and handles the way I think it will before making any further plans, the previous statement was 100% tongue in cheek ;)

[Adam]

Fair enough

[lee303]

Lee - was going to PM you, but thought it'd be a good read for others aswell.

In regards to lowering the engine in the bay, how much would be deemed as "worth doing" if you get me, I mean, should it get lowered by 15mm, would that not be worth the effort... and at what point (do you feel) it becomes worth it? or is it a case of, anything is better than currently...

I read on a few pages back Rob (Span) mentioning it, and that got me thinking, he mentioned the gear linkages being an ar.se to sort out, but then I thought if I was to get a Quaife shifter and go direct to turret like yourself, the gear linkage problem would no longer be a problem?

Just thought I'd ask your opinion on the drop... :)

well, realisitcaly i dont have any referance points, but any drop is going to have an effect, i would think that at least 20mm would be needed before you get any really noticeable effects, but as its quite a large mass,it may be that less is noticeable
the nissan primera touring car is the best example i have ever seen, the engine is so low down the sump is less than 35mm from the floor, and they tilted it backwards too so the crank was rotating less than 6 inches from the drivers ankles, and they sit really far back in the car(another good cog/weight distribution trick, which some have already done, well, i have anywayslol ) just awesome cars the super tourers, and totally my inspiration for the nova
but they really did go to extremes in them days, remounting the floorpan further up inside the chassis to gain clearances etc, i know a guy who was involved in their development, and boy did they look for every last tenth, they even had the optimum window opening measurement for aero reasonslol

*edited because of my bad spelling!*

[ace-media]

That manifold is crazy...although not the solution imo. What are the realistic chances of bottoming out on your average circuit?
It would just be a case of sticking with what you have and driving very carefully on the road imo...

OR go dry sump (which has fairly obvious benefits in itself - although squeezing all the gear in to a Nova bay would be a bit of a ****...) - then with the dry sump panel in place you could have a new manifold that sits really tight under it - maybe SBD Type C spec but with SLIGHTLY shorter primaries so that it sits that little bit tigher underneath...

Seems a lot of work to go for that crazy manifold - all the wiring / water hoses will need protecting from the heat, plus the bulkhead - and do you run an Astra / Cav internal shifter? Bet it won't clear that....


'ace-media' that's AL iirc...

Correctamundo my big ginger friend :p

[trackdaynova]

Lee - totally read and understood everything what you've said :thumb: it's a good base of inspiration you have, thats fo'sho' :D

Al - I love the way you say "dry sump it", in a throw away statement as if itc costs nothing lol I'm not about to go down that route.

As said - had my legs machined today elongating both holes on each strut, to give me the clearence I need on the bulgiest of tyres I'm ever going to run, no progress tonight (how slack!?), but they have been primered, ready for a lick'o'paint and lacquer tomorrow lol

So I'm going to roll with my current plans for now, do my two up and coming trackdays, and see how she does :D

[Count Vaux Alot]

OK cool - we'll whip the engine out after Donny trackday on 9th November, and play from there :D

Oh yes at least we can have a play i take it you will be booking another trackday for late nov and want it all done by then lollol

As for the progress Oliver what you been playing at not one pic? shame on you!

[trackdaynova]

Do you really want a pic of my primered shock absorbers lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

I can't believe you need to ask.....no really i'll be fine did you get my txt earlier? The reply to yours?

[ace-media]

Al - I love the way you say "dry sump it", in a throw away statement as if itc costs nothing lol I'm not about to go down that route.

Wellll you've come this far lol

[lee303]

the manifold was not just cool because of clearance, it means a less extreme bend in the primaries so does release power too
the dry sump doesnt actually achieve that much more clearance on its own, the pan is only thinner in the main pickup section of a stock one, where the manifold would not be running anyway, the main advantage is you can mount the engine at any angle and still have pressure, which is something you will have to consider anyway olly, cornering on slicks will mean you want at least a baffled sump i reckon

[trackdaynova]

Yeah I was going to get a spare XE sump, I sold all three of my spares, and now I need one myself lol, and take it to my ally welders to see if they can put some vertical baffles in it...

Is there any rules to say where the baffles need to be etc? or is it just literally to stop the oil "swishing" about, so even just 1 vertical plate with drilled holes in it... would that kinda thing do?

[lee303]

baffles are ok, but gates are what you really wantlol they let the oil through one way but stop it the other, which is way more effective than just baffling as it actively stops surge
i know someone who would be happy to make you one, and has done one recently so has the patterns for the xe sump for laser cutting the plates, but basically you need to make sure the pickup is always going to be supplied, and it is doable youeself i reckon, you need to section off the main deep part of the sump while allowing the oil to reach the pickup easily, will see if i can find some pics online

[lee303]

there's a few pics of his stuff on here, but not of the xe one he now does, but you can get an idea

www.hellierperformance.com

[C7LJN]

With the wheels now sitting so low wont the shafts now be pointing upwards and going into the CVs at a greater angle? Thus causeing a greater power loss to the wheels and more strain on inner and outer joints.

Also with someone saying lower the engine mounts. This would make the shafts even worse.
You can maybe do something like make your own sump and pick up pipe and tilt the engine forward thus raising the rear of the gear box and inner joints up

You may have done something to counter act this before im not sure as i havent followed this thread from the start. Just a thought i had

[lee303]

i meant to do just the engine, not both, not sure how many times i need to say that!
and also, olly has said he has a few spare cvs

[trackdaynova]

lol @ people coming in with stuff we've already talked about! read back a few pages fffffffffffffffffffffs lol

Lee - PM sent :thumb:

and CV's aren't a problem, I think I have 4 spare inners, and 3 spare outers at mo, which I've not needed so far... but I feel the need for a breakage when I get the grip of the slicks on the first corner at Cadwell lol

[C7LJN]

i meant to do just the engine, not both, not sure how many times i need to say that!
and also, olly has said he has a few spare cvs

Well i was just thinking if your so serious about trying to get the cars corner speed faster then i would also be thinking how to utilise the power that you have as best as you can coming out the corners. You could be loosing 10hp per shaft the way it is

As i said before it was just a thought and i hadnt read the thread in full so you can put your hadbag down:eek:

[trackdaynova]

You could be loosing 10hp per shaft the way it is

This is just it, I've not even looked at the driveshaft angle, as since even getting new the springs, the car hasn't been off the axel stands lol

None of us know what the shaft angles are going to be like, but as soon as I have re-fitted my legs, the car will go up in the air on ramps, get tracked up, and I will get a spirit level on the shafts, and steering arms and take pics ;)

[C7LJN]

This is just it, I've not even looked at the driveshaft angle, as since even getting new the springs, the car hasn't been off the axel stands lol

None of us know what the shaft angles are going to be like, but as soon as I have re-fitted my legs, the car will go up in the air on ramps, get tracked up, and I will get a spirit level on the shafts, and steering arms and take pics ;)

Cool i was just sharing thoughts as i remember my last valver nova i had was bad looking when you seen it on the 4post ramp and front wing (hatch style)sat about 10mm above the tyre with 15`s same as you have

[BRoadGhost]

"What are the realistic chances of bottoming out on your average circuit?"

Well if you can lower a car so the sills touch the floor then quite high i'ud imagine…

"This is just it, I've not even looked at the driveshaft angle, as since even getting new the springs, the car hasn't been off the axel stands… None of us know what the shaft angles are going to be like…"

Well maybe not none who are reading this, but tbh without doing as we've discussed there's nothing you can do about it anyway ;O

[BRoadGhost]

Oh and that manifold IS the sh1t and it is part of the answer; all aspects mentioned that need to be overcome as a result of running it are small fry.

[lee303]

Well i was just thinking if your so serious about trying to get the cars corner speed faster then i would also be thinking how to utilise the power that you have as best as you can coming out the corners. You could be loosing 10hp per shaft the way it is

As i said before it was just a thought and i hadnt read the thread in full so you can put your hadbag down:eek:

nah, i like my handbag, perhaps you could just read the thread, who knows:wtf: some people are so touchylol

[C7LJN]

nah, i like my handbag, perhaps you could just read the thread, who knows:wtf: some people are so touchylol

I like touchy poeple. Cause prefer to be touched than do the touching lol lol

[trackdaynova]

bahhhh bet you guys didn't think I could actually update my WIP without any actual updates lol lol lol well here I am lol

Went to argos to buy the alloy low-entry jack I've been after, bargain @ £89.99, with 12month warranty if it breaks. Went to Argos because then its simple to take back when it does break, as it will break, as it's only cheapo in comparison to what you can get, only 9kg too :)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1140.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1141.jpg

After three... 1... 2... 3.. "gayyyyyy" lol sprayed up the bottom part of my shocks where the angle grinder has been, and the miller to elongate both holes
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1142.jpg

Sprayed up the cups that Me & James lathed by hand lol
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1144.jpg

No reason for this pic what so ever :D
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1145.jpg

Tight working space, I have exactly 12inches either side of the car to work in, yes, a foot lol, and 2 foot infront of the car
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1143.jpg

[ben21]

Fair play mate, an almost worthwhile update with not a lot done. Tbf thats how most of my update thread goes :lol:

P.S Booked onto All Day open pit at Oulton on Friday 31st Oct, fancy it?!

[nova ian]

Looking good jack, and not to bad yourself Olly!

Coilies look good with a spruce up, look like new, Hope everything goes smoothly with the rebuild process :)

Can't wait to see the go kart back on the floor;)

[Count Vaux Alot]

The jack looks sweeet have you tested it yet? The shock have come out well too the pointless pic makes up for the lack of in previous posts lol

[trackdaynova]

I don't have a car on the ground, to jack up at the moment lol

It's still in t'air :(

[BRoadGhost]

Here's my low entry solution:-

http://www.musicdirect.com/shared/images/products/large/aayremyrtle.jpg

[lee303]

so have you welded the washers to the dampers yet? or are you gonna scrub the paint off again to do that:confused:

[LiquidPug]

...sprayed up the bottom part of my shocks...
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1142.jpg

What paint did you use Olz - just boggo hammerite yellow or did you try to match back to 'Spax Yellow' - need to do mine ;)

[The Simps]

so have you welded the washers to the dampers yet? or are you gonna scrub the paint off again to do that:confused:


:eek: :cry:

[trackdaynova]

Lee - I failed on that part didn't I lol, but it was more around the lower shock body was the vast area that needed cleaning up, not so much the tabs. But you're right, I'll need to go back to bare metal around the weldy parts lol

Ste - Hammerite Smooth Yellow, but don't buy any, I have 3/4 of a massive can here that didn't get used, that you can have :thumb:

[Stuart]

for the record, LEDA in terms of what they used to be dont exist anymore, they are merely a brand that someone purchased after Lee and Dave (IIRC) got out of the game. One of them now works for GAZ and the other is retired..... So GAZ have all the LEDA engineering background now ;)

[ace-media]

Dude before you start using that jack loads, get yourself some loctite and add it to all the little allen bolts.
Mine falls apart almost weekly!

[LiquidPug]

Ste - Hammerite Smooth Yellow, but don't buy any, I have 3/4 of a massive can here that didn't get used, that you can have :thumb: Cheers fella-me-lad - got your email today, just crap at work at mo - boss is off for 3 weeks after having burst appendix :eek:

Have every mo-fo knocking on my 'door' now he's off, expecting everything yesterday!! :cry:

Any jobs at your place? ;) lol

Lazy not looking myself - when's the next track day :thumb:

[trackdaynova]

week Sunday - Cadwell Park :thumb: :)

[LiquidPug]

Gonna be ready?? :fingers-crossed:

[trackdaynova]

you bet :thumb:

Just come in from garage, after another 7 hour slog :thumb: once again, broken record maybe, but another massive thanks to The Count James, travelled up again from Bedford tonight to give me a hand - really appreciate it mate!

So we got everything built up and bolted back on after fabricating some trick custom steering arms to aid me get full geometry (tracking) adjustability, as i'd ran out of inward thread on the original Nova steering arms, so couldn't get any tow out even if I wanted to, which I didn't like.

The elongated holes on the suspension leg worked, so much so that we managed to gain +1degree positive camber :( doh! lol which meant the tyre cleared the spring - yayyyy, but then fouled the wing in a bad way :mad: lol

We did lower it to the ground after pulling the wings out to cover the tyres, but it was wayyy too low, lol 1.5" from the floor actually, the manfold was lol

Will upload pics tomorrow, as I'm knacked at mo, and back out there tomorrow finishing off the job we started!

[chrisnovaturbo]

ive got that jack. goes under any low cars. dont look as nice and clean as urs now tho lol

[trackdaynova]

a couple of pics from tonight, but not full progress...

at it's lowest lol doh
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1146.jpg

wouldn't even get out of my garage this low lol
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1147.jpg

new rosejointed tre setup, with spacers
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1148.jpg

jack placed under BBJ and jacked up until it was compressing the spring, nice and horizontal steering arms
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1149.jpg

and they're still pointing up slightly, even with them running that low, so going to add a thicker spacer to being them totally horizontal
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1150.jpg

[jaycee]

bloody hell now that's low.lol
like the rose jointed set up very nice

[The Simps]

Looks about the right height to me.

[Jonlem]

Track rod ends look sweet :)

Careful running it too low as if you hit something on the road or ride a large kerb on a track you stand a chance of smashing the sump off off, not unheard of and will most probably cost you an engine if it happens.

[trackdaynova]

Totally hear what you're saying Jon :thumb: it won't be running that low :)

Wondering whether it might be a good idea in me investing in a sump guard...

[trackdaynova]

this is what we did to get more inward thread on the steering arms

cut off the steering arms before the 'mole grip' flats, and sharpen edge slightly
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1151.jpg

get some threaded bar, or a long bolt, sharpen that edge, enough so you have penetration point for some weld, hold in an ally piece of angle to ensure they're straight straight
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1152.jpg

once tacked, be sure they're straight, sillouette shows the pen-points for the weld
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1153.jpg

james doing some checking lol
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1154.jpg

weld in the the V groove all the way around both parts
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1155.jpg

meanwhile, i modified some sleeves that James made up, by drilling three holes in, for puddle welds to ensure its strength between the two parts
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1156.jpg

opened out to 8mm, all the way through
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1157.jpg

straight metal ruler along both edges - straight
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1158.jpg

once welded around the V, grind back, and admire that you can hardly tell where one ends, and the other begins
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1159.jpg

slide over tight fitting drilled sleeve
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1160.jpg

[trackdaynova]

puddle weld both seperate pieces of metal, and the centre join, along with both ends of the sleeve
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1161.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1162.jpg

bur them down with a grinder so they look reet
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1163.jpg

lick o paint - done :thumb:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1164.jpg


elongation gave us plenty of clearence here
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1165.jpg

but completely wiped it out from here! doh!
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1166.jpg

whilst james was hard at it, doing the man work, i decided to make my strut brace match my turret holes
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1167.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1168.jpg


end of night :)

once again - thanks to James for all the welding, and sorting out the sleeves for me :thumb:

[The Simps]

So conclusion then that to get the clearance for the shocker its difficult to maintain a negative camber? Whats the moves going forward?

[vaughanmc]

Detail of work is amazing Olly :)

When will you be out on the track to test this new suspension setup ?

[nova ian]

Yes yes! all coming together a good'un now mate:D

You've both made a good job of the modified steering arms, look awesome and probably stronger now than standard!!

Cracking work as always, looking forward to seeing it at the weekend

[Lee H]

Did Craig Green not have problems on his MOT due to having cut and welded the steering arms? Thought it was seriously frowned upon?

[corsakid]

it is mot failer if you can prove the arms have been welded or iwelds are clearly visible! with the welds ground back and painted you cant tell and be 100% sure and thus cannot make the assumtion so a pass but ..(thats looking at the pics! in real life you might be able to easily tell when your underneath it that they are welded so a failure) imho and i am an mot tester! but its is down to the discretion of the tester, luck off the draw really

[nova ian]

yeah its an mot failer thats if you can prove they have been welded or is clearly visible! with the welds ground back and painted you cant tell and be 100% sure and thus cannot make the assumtion so a pass but ..(thats looking at the pics! in real life you might be able to easily tell when your underneath it that they are welded so a failure) imho and i am an mot tester! but its is down to the discretion of the tester, luck off the draw really

I wasn't aware of this, hopefully Olly will be lucky and have a friendly tester!

[corsakid]

yeah it is, even if you use oxy to heat track rod ends up to aid removal that can be seen as an mot failure, imho they look stronger than the originals especially with the sleeve and plug welded, but if you tidy then up really well and the welds arent visible then imho should be a pass, i am sure will f bought craig greens power steering rack as a spare the welding on the arms was/is about as suttle as a punch in the face you couldnt miss them, no attempt at hiding them,

[Lee H]

yeah its an mot failer thats if you can prove they have been welded or is clearly visible! with the welds ground back and painted you cant tell and be 100% sure and thus cannot make the assumtion so a pass but ..(thats looking at the pics! in real life you might be able to easily tell when your underneath it that they are welded so a failure) imho and i am an mot tester! but its is down to the discretion of the tester, luck off the draw really

I can't see the pictures at work so wasn't sure how visible they are, can imagine they are pretty tidy though :thumb:

[craig green]

i am sure will f bought craig greens power steering rack as a spare the welding on the arms was/is about as suttle as a punch in the face you couldnt miss them, no attempt at hiding them,

Not true, mine have never been near Will F, they are still on my car & now with an MOT pass. :thumb:

Friendly tester is the way forward. ;)

[corsakid]

ok sorry my mistake its definatly someones old powersteering rack off the site he isnt using it its just sat on his garage floor, easy to make them a pass just grind and smooth the welds, ollys are really really neat and tidy so wont be problem imho

[Adam]

LOL @ how low that is lol :cool:

Liking the trackrod work, nice solution.

[lee303]

so you needed more thread further down the track rod, could you not just have tapped the thread further down the original arm with a die? or have i got it the wrong way round?
i take it your lower arms have run out of thread to gain some more negative camber? easy fix for that would be to remake them from a new set, as there is room to cut less off the original arm before welding the rose joint mount in place to gain some length

[trackdaynova]

Yep you're correct Lee, and the right way around, I ran out of inward thread, but on Nova steering arms the shape of the arm changes shape immediately after the threads stop, as two edges go flat where you'd put molegrips when turning the steering arms to do the tracking... so the thread couldn't be cut further in.

So we lobbed off the steering arms just after (just inward) of there the molegrip flats are, and then done the above...

My TCA RJ's are actually would all the way in the TCA, or near as damn it, so I have a bit of flexibility there to gain the neg-camber back, but the top of the wheel is sitting far too out at the moment, so I'm going to alter it tonght and just keep playing until I can drive it down to the garages where I can get it up on the ramp, and weld the washers on the car, when its setup how I want it :thumb:

[lee303]

yeah i know about the flats, but looking at the photos it seemed the new bit added had no thread where they would be anyways and they are pretty far down the arm, but whatever, its done now:)
you probably need to be carefull with your driveshaft plunge now if your wheels are that far out though, you might end up pulling shafts out the box on lock

[ace-media]

Ahhh Lee beat me to it there! Only just occurred to me that you'll be risking the shafts like that. I guess though there should be a good bit of thread on the end of the shafts - might be able to wind them out slightly to gain a bit extra clearance...
Suppose you could get the front in the air and lock steering in each direction - get an idea of how much pull there is on boots - if the rubber is pulling flat then you may have a problem :)

Looking good though!

[trackdaynova]

The wheels aren't any further out than any other Nova :confused:... as the RJ's on my TCAs are wound all the way in the TCA itself. So they're at a standard length that a standard TCA is :)

The new threaded bar has 20mm more thread than a standard steering arm has.

Just been out, raised it by 15mm, and reduced the +1 camber back to -1.5camber which is what I want to run at, and everything still clears :thumb:

However I think its due to crappy Nova tolerences, but the NSF tyre is closer to the wing than the OSF tyre... very odd!

[novarobbo]

However I think its due to crappy Nova tolerences, but the NSF tyre is closer to the wing than the OSF tyre... very odd!

probably is nova tolerences because my old nova was the opposite of what yours is.. my offside used to catch the arch on my old nova but the nearside was miles off and both the nearside and the offside were set to the exact same height on the coilovers

[BRoadGhost]

Seems like reinventing the wheel a bit to me...

I just did this:-

http://www.digitalempathy.co.uk/2008/iTRe.JPG

[Rick Draper]

Update your WIP flush, want to see you gear leaver setup.

[lee303]

The wheels aren't any further out than any other Nova :confused:... as the RJ's on my TCAs are wound all the way in the TCA itself. So they're at a standard length that a standard TCA is :)

!
why do they hit the wings then?, if you ovaled the holes on the struts, then wound the tcas out, then surely they are further out, also the drive shaft angle being increased will mean the shfats themselves will be pulled further out of the cv, not a big deal, and easy to fix with a washer behind the hub side of the cv, but definitely worth checking out

[trackdaynova]

Because its so low, and the positive camber that I had from elongation lol... the tyre wall is completely under the arch, but now been raised slightly, as i couldn't run it as low as pictured the other night.

Simon - thats been discussed, cba repeating myself anymore

[trackdaynova]

if you ovaled the holes on the struts, then wound the tcas out, then surely they are further outwhoa whoa whoa, I've not touched the TCAs at all, never. The RJ's are wound all the way in, thus the shortest possible.

I've repeated that three times now Lee lol Not once have I even implied that I've done the contrary lol

[trackdaynova]

My TCA RJ's are actually would all the way in the TCA, or near as damn it

as the RJ's on my TCAs are wound all the way in the TCA itself.

if you ovaled the holes on the struts, then wound the tcas out
unless you were on a wind up? lol

[Benn]

Update your WIP flush, want to see you gear leaver setup.

I wanna see how the car got on from the wip on roybaser...

[The Simps]

However I think its due to crappy Nova tolerences, but the NSF tyre is closer to the wing than the OSF tyre... very odd!

My drivers side is at the bottom of the thread and passenger is 20mm higher. The drivers side still sits a little higher! lol

[lee303]

alright, keep your shirt on, i re read the bit after you said you've raised it, driveshaft angle comment still stands, i'm sure you'll work it out though

[trackdaynova]

Don't think i'm getting funny Lee, I'm not lol - I genuinely found it humourous as I thought you were having me on lol

Totally agree on the driveshaft plunge angle, and yes, the passenger short shaft is at a considerable angle, but I suppose I'll just have to suck it and see... obviously the drivers is the same, but due to being twice the length it doesn't look as bad.

Simps - Novas have crap tolerence - fact lol

[lee303]

*shrugs*

[Ste L]

I wanna see how the car got on from the wip on roybaser...


me to, one of the main reason's i went on there, to read his project :mad:

[Benn]

me to, one of the main reason's i went on there, to read his project :mad:

Snap.

[Jonlem]

Lee, driveshaft plunge when using proper shafts and 16v cv's wouldn't actually be a issue on a nova as they are pushed in a fair way using that setup.

I believe Olly is still on GTE shafts which do use most of the travel in the cv, its a case of suck it and see as your right with what you say but he "might" get away with it.

Looking good though Olz, any issues with the MOT give me a bell as I know a few people that could help you there.

Is that fLuShSiMoN then ? great wip he had, f**king annoying style of typing though lol

[trackdaynova]

Cheers Jon, however by the time my next MOT comes around I'd probably have got bored and broken it for parts lol lol

[draper]

Cheers Jon, however by the time my next MOT comes around I'd probably have got bored and broken it for parts lol lol


i can see the vultures circling already lol

[Prey]

Cheers Jon, however by the time my next MOT comes around I'd probably have got bored and broken it for parts lol lol

Don't say things like that.

Even if they are a joke.

lol

[Jonlem]

Ollys going to be a busy man next year, aren't you Olly ;)

[Ste L]

how much for the tb's :p

[Adam]

lol

[Jonlem]

how much for the tb's :p

I've already got first dibs :p lol

[Ste L]

:( lol

[ace-media]

I'll stick an MOT on it Ol, don't even worry about stupid things like whether it is legal or not.

;)

[trackdaynova]

Right this tolerence thing has started to bug me, the fact that I can forsee one side catching and the other being plenty far enough away.

Please excuse the crude drawing, but can anyone point out any accurate points of measurements where I can measure from side to side to see why my tyre-to-wing meeasurements aren't the same.

I can think of obvious points to measure, but they're not 100% accurate as they need to be identical on both sides. They obviously need to start from a solid chassis point as opposed to any moving part, suspension etc...

It doesn't look much on this crabby drawing, but there is a good 15mm, which is far too much for my liking...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1169.jpg

[The Simps]

i was thinking this morning about wheel angles while in my little snug bug bed cacoon.

with mine lowered to the floor the other nite the wheels didn't appear to have any camber which considering the top mounts are tipping inwards & back and the coilover is at the bottom of the thread you assume there would be.

Could it be the driveshafts pulling at the wheel? Obviuosly mine aren't fitted.

[Rich]

^ as in the long drivshaft has more give allowing the wheel to sit inwards more?

My old nova was like that on the back of the car. One wheel would have about 15-20mm whereas the other had about 5mm at most. I double its somthing wrong, just the fact its a nova

[burgo]

olly nothing says your wings are the same! what i mean is your wheels might be exactly the same even if they dont look it. only way to know for sure is lazy alignment imo

[BRoadGhost]

You get a similar sort of thing with the inside of rear arches - it's only when you start putting the thing in the weeds it all becomes clear >_<'

Wouldn't lose sleep on it if it's corner weighted, looks similar and drives true ;)

[Rick Draper]

I would just pull the wing out further with my hands tbh.

[ace-media]

I would just pull the wing out further with my hands tbh.

Seconded... or borrow an arch roller... or bottle jack it like you did with the rears...

[Martin]

i'm confuddled lol but am sure you'l sort it

[BRoadGhost]

Wise words Rick - generate the strength thinking about how sh1t the tolerances are and pull that m0therfcuker out by hand Raaaaaaw

[Benn]

I would just pull the wing out further with my hands tbh.
Very easy way to do it, did mine gave me a bit more cleanance. And its free.

[trackdaynova]

Sorted it all out and now both wheels sit nicely inside the arches.

Had my geometry setup today by a proper company with proper professional equipment, state of the art in fact - was impressed... they had a John Bean V3D 3 ARAGO Alignment System which one of these:

http://www.snaponequipment.com/johnbean/images/products/aligners/arago/eewa550al.jpg

True to life changes and interactive settings, which was mega cool to watch - very accurate and no guess work :D

Having tracked my car by eye to drive down there, was I pleased to say when they first put the gauges on to give me my "current" settings, the NSF was 0.6mm toe out, and the OSF was 0.8mm toe out :cool:

Despite me thinking my castor was even both sides when I last had it done, they we no where near, infact the drivers side had 5deg10mins, and the passenger 4degrees45minutes which is a considerable difference considering they're both supposed to be the same.

The camber was also something that I did by eye, and rolled in at NSF 2deg57min, which is 3min off 3degress negative lol, and drivers was 2deg 14min. doh!

Finally found out today that where JamSport bent my rear beam to give me toe out on the rear, we tried pushing it back out with a porta-power but obviously didn't go back to how it was, it is properly fubarred, with figs to prove. My OSR being vertical but towing out by 1.1deg, and my NSR having 3/4s of a degree negative camber, but point directly ahead - so a new beam will be purchased over winter.

Anyway, in short we pulled the castor on the front wheels back to 4degrees on either side, and I now have a legitimate -1.5degrees (1degree 30mins) negative camber which is what I wanted, along with the 1mm toe out

Fact sheets below, before and after which is cool to keep... have pics of it being done on my mobile too which I'll upload soon.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1170.jpg

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1171.jpg

[trackdaynova]

Oh, and once I left the geometry place, I drove home like a pansy so I didn't upset any of the measurements, as soon as I got on the drive, the car went in the air - whipped the wheels off, and welded the washers in place on the struts, so its all good :)

[burgo]

bent the beam!!!! how the **** and what the ****!! whats wrong with using proper shims to adjust the back geometry.

got a beam in the way in the garage anyway if you want it ol. you know where i am

[ace-media]

Shame about the beam! Ratchet strapping is never really gonna be a good option though!

What was the name of the company you went to this time? :)

[Iain]

Wow even get cool diagrams :D How much does setting up like that cost? (If you don't mind me asking)

[Benn]

Bending the beam couldnt have been easy and why the funk,what the funk!

About timew you had a proper lazor set up done. You talk about it like its a new thing.. You in the dark ages up there or what...lol

[adam c]

we have one of those type of aligners at work.they are very accurate you can see the measurements move if theres even a slight breeze thats how sensitive they are!

[trackdaynova]

Burgo - cheers for the offer of the beam, I'll be in touch regarding that! :)

Al - agreed, ratchet strapping isn't the best of ideas, but hey ho - live and learn :) The company is 'Leicester 4 Wheel Alignment Centre' - 0116 254 4489 - www.tyresgalore.co.uk (http://www.tyresgalore.co.uk)

Iain - see details above, they spent about 1.5-2 hours on my car, and it cost £50, but I left a generous tip because of how quick, professional and efficient they were :thumb:

Ben - not laser as if its a new thing, but those machines are hard to come by, I usually use the "up and over the tyre" jobbies which are also laser-lines, but these clip onto the rim themselves, not the tyre - as my car is now too low to use those

Adam - bloody great aren't they :thumb:

[Benn]

Ben - not laser as if its a new thing, but those machines are hard to come by, I usually use the "up and over the tyre" jobbies which are also laser-lines, but these clip onto the rim themselves, not the tyre - as my car is now too low to use those


Really? Theyve been using them down here (only protyre/trucktyre have them) for about 10years.. Where i allways get mine done.

[t45_ste]

Id say £50 is good, what were jamsport charging for their "gold" package?

[Count Vaux Alot]

WOW sweet job buddy :cool::cool: well chuffed for you! I didn't know those cu*ts at jam bent your beam what toss%rs and they are supposed to be professional.....:tard:
I'm glad you have achieved the set up you wanted and our efforts have not gone to waist i'm pleased as punch for you!

Bring on the weekend!!!! :thumb: :thumb:

[trackdaynova]

Ste - yeah totally reasonable price especially for the job they did! I think they charge £200+VAT for their 'gold' package or summut lol

James - a big thanks to you pal for all your hard work getting me to this point - really appreciate it bud, and the weekend will be a blast :)

[Count Vaux Alot]

No probs at all ;) any time but you know that :D

[adam c]

i thought they(jamsport) would of used shims on the rear to adjust the toe/camber.

whens its next outing?

[t45_ste]

Edited to save agro : )

[The Simps]

ace result that.

agree with benn tho - my local STS Holburns has that setup! lol

U had a beam that was bent like yours Oli but it turned out the stub axle was bent not the beam.

[trackdaynova]

I had? or you had?

[The Simps]

lol "I" had!

[LiquidPug]

Persevere with your set-up Olz, I'm sure you'll find the 'sweet' spot! :thumb:

Can't wait for Sunday, mini Nurberg here we come lol!

[corsakid]

glad you got it all sorted olly cant wait for you to report back with your track report with videos etc will be a really marked improvement i am sure :thumb:

[The Simps]

With my bent stub axle Olly what I did in the end was put the beam on a jig and cut the triangular supports of the beam, adjust it to where I wanted (in my case a little neg camber) then weld it back up again.

[trackdaynova]

stiffened up the shocks today, put the Rainsports back on the fronts now I know that the 888s clear the springs... went for a good old blat... rather impressed with how planted it feels.

at high speeds it feels like the tarmac is sucking you in, which is nice, and on the corners it is lovely and predictable leaving it totally to me what happens to the car :thumb:

having every rosejointed really makes the drive mega tight, sharp, and no give whatsoever

almost go as far as saying that i'm happy with how she feels at the moment :thumb:

EDIT/ADDED: took a pic or two too lol :D

[vaughanmc]

Post these pics up :)

[krobinson]

Good Work Olly :)

[trackdaynova]

lol they're nothing interesting

fitted new headlight bulbs to 'ice white' ones because i hated my yellowy 'old car' ones, these are the ones that were fitted to my Corsa XE lol recycled tastic
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1172.jpg

and fitted my new FIA MSA LED rainlight
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/neocapture/nc1173.jpg

[Adam]

Good work.
Those alignment readout diagrams look pretty cool :cool:
Can see whats gone on/what they've changed.

[Ernie]

looking good mate.Still waiting to see pic's of how clean the header tank came up after going through the dish washer lol.

[Benn]

Hang on when did you have a xe corsa???????/
Had its feeling and driving right.

[ace-media]

Hang on when did you have a xe corsa????

I was gonna say that!

Get some overall stance pics up now its all 'done' Ol!

Glad to hear it feels gooood :) Bet you'd beat that pesky Fiat now ;) lol

[dhdev (Oli)]

MSA FIA LED... must be good with all those abbreviations! lol
Glad its getting there Olz, trackday will tell you for sure :thumb:

[trackdaynova]

dunno about the abbreviations, just copied/ pasted what the shop said :confused:

in deed - the Donny trackday will tell me alot more than Cadwell, having never visited Cadwell before.

[trackdaynova]

Weather looks 'promising' providing the forecasts are correct, which they usually aren't lol

BBC says http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/images/symbols/fiveday_sym/3.gif

[Count Vaux Alot]

/\ lol lol

[trackdaynova]

you know what, t'ain't fooken funny, because today it says this: :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/images/symbols/fiveday_sym/15.gif

[krobinson]

Never rely on the weather report on BBC. Every day you check it, it will change.

It's absolutely pissing down here today!! lol

[Count Vaux Alot]

you know what, t'ain't fooken funny, because today it says this: :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/images/symbols/fiveday_sym/15.gif

Thats why i laughed as i looked on the bbc web site and it said rain rain rain lol

[ace-media]

This Evening and Tonight:
Staying cloudy and mild with rain at times, the rain most persistent and heaviest in the west of the region. Strong to gale southwest winds easing. Minimum temperature 9 °C.

Sunday:
Cloud and rain soon clearing to leave a much brighter day with sunny spells. Scattered showers developing but most of these in the west of the region. Brisk westerly winds. Maximum temperature 11 °C.

Oh dear, enjoy your rainsports!

[Emmy]

Hello trackdaynova :)

What a transformation the garage looks so much brighter :thumb: and the car parts look good aswell ;)

[Ernie]

Have a good day oll's

[Adam]

Hope everythings going well for you Olly :)

[Benn]

Olz, you told me about a way to measurement for lowness.. Did you find what a standard hight is?

[gsi_olly]

look like shes coming along mate deffo