My XE nova on throttle bodies (Project 275+bhp)

[Gareth_C]

A few members have told me to put my car on here as I done enough posts so here goes my high spec c20xe.

this is the start when it was a knocked together standard valver.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/2007_0715_York_0005.jpg

this is it after my good friend spent hours giving it a full bare metal respray fresh in the booth.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/04052008034.jpg

The engine that is going but sinc the pic I have changed a few things on it.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00534-2.jpg

Will put a few more pics up when I have the time lol :thumb:

[david dixon]

come on you can get more pics than that up i know!
you must have loads by now :)

[dj_wudgey]

looks bang on mate! You go york often?

[david dixon]

when he gets its finished :roll:

[Danny s-p]

you hopefully be at york a week on sunday in her wont you :thumb:

[dj_wudgey]

when he gets its finished :roll:
Oh like that yea lol

[david dixon]

to be fair he should have it down for the next one!

David.

[wwmnw]

He didn't even know how to post pics man, I had to show him how to do it lol then fix another problem on my car :cry:

[dj_wudgey]

to be fair he should have it down for the next one!

David.
Oh yea nice mate i maybe there next time but i wont be in the nova and if i am im not racing it ha ha

[david dixon]

we might be there in one of the v6's i think

David.

[Gareth_C]

come on you can get more pics than that up i know!
you must have loads by now :)

lol thanks for that havent you worked out I love rebuilding the engine you know what they sat 3rd time lucky.

[Gareth_C]

I get to york majority of the time as long as it doesnt go pop on the rollers I will be waking the lovely people of elvington on the sunday morning as I drive through. I will add some more pics in a bit lol

[Gareth_C]

more pics lol
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/04052008031.jpg

a bit dusty but...
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/22042008023.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/22042008027.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/22042008026.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/22042008025.jpg

[wwmnw]

You not got any pics of the engine build or getting the engine in? Or were you too busy flapping all the time :plol

[Gareth_C]

You not got any pics of the engine build or getting the engine in? Or were you too busy flapping all the time :plol

Yeah got pics of the internals lol but no pics of the bay finished will take one when the mad doc is finished with his laptop over weekend

[wwmnw]

Yeah got pics of the internals lol but no pics of the bay finished will take one when the mad doc is finished with his laptop over weekend

lollollol get some vids done too when you get it back and have time, you can buy a camera for mega cheap on ebay (£9 or so and an SD card) and the quality is good, I'm going to buy one on friday, will lend you it if needs be.

[LEWI007]

Ive really got a soft spot for GSi novas in that colour, sometimes wish id painted mine that colour, keep it up mate.

[david dixon]

gazza your inbox is full!

[Danny s-p]

fingers crossed it all go good this time mate. the paint job look like it was good work. can't wat to here them throttle bodes at full chat. get some more pic up

[Gareth_C]

Ive really got a soft spot for GSi novas in that colour, sometimes wish id painted mine that colour, keep it up mate.

It s not actually a nova colour ;) ;)

[Gareth_C]

gazza your inbox is full!

Done mate

[Gareth_C]

by popular demand engine pics.

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/06122007008.jpg Race preped coscast head.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00449.jpg
fullt arp bottom complete with forged pistons
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00470-1.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00481-1.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00481-1.jpg
ttv billet flywheel
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/15042008022.jpg
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00475.jpg
jenvey throttle bodies
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00536.jpg

[hartley]

looks mint mate

[Connor]

Whiitt Whoooo :p

[Gareth_C]

looks mint mate
Cheers hartley

[wwmnw]

All show and no go lol

[Gareth_C]

All show and no go lol

cunny funt where did you want your sr dropping off again lol

[wwmnw]

cunny funt where did you want your sr dropping off again lol

Err you can leave that in your garage for now mate xx lol

[connor c]

thats a nice colour lad

[bikerboi]

looking good. more pics of engine bay and car required i think. possibly a spec list if you havent already. :)

[Gareth_C]

looking good. more pics of engine bay and car required i think. possibly a spec list if you havent already. :)

I will put more pics of the finished product when I get it back mate :thumb:

[dj_wudgey]

we might be there in one of the v6's i think

David.
Nice mate il be trying to get there then mate!

[Gareth_C]

Nice mate il be trying to get there then mate!

So will I looking forward to it lol three years worth of problems with it its all coming together ;)

[Danny s-p]

:eek::eek::eek: wat that a see a red name :thumb: lol. is it still at the roller's and did the lad get his wide band sorted

[Gareth_C]

:eek::eek::eek: wat that a see a red name :thumb: lol. is it still at the roller's and did the lad get his wide band sorted

Yes mate I cashed in the red bull lol but dont tell the mrs lol I haven't heard from the mad doc yet but I will phone him fri dinnertime. I got my new axle dropped in for powder coating aswell :thumb:

[Danny s-p]

Yes mate I cashed in the red bull lol but dont tell the mrs lol I haven't heard from the mad doc yet but I will phone him fri dinnertime. I got my new axle dropped in for powder coating aswell :thumb:good good i cashed a box of my milky bar's for my member ship lol. wat colour the axle going

[Gareth_C]

Just gloss black mate dont want anything that would stand out should get it back next week

[Danny s-p]

Just gloss black mate dont want anything that would stand out should get it back next weekcool mine mat black:p put pic on my wip now

[Gareth_C]

nice one mate i went for the easy option though lol

[Danny s-p]

nice one mate i went for the easy option though loli spent a day with my rust buster :cry:

[Gareth_C]

lol mate

[pastry]

nice car, how many mm are your airhorns?

[Gareth_C]

nice car, how many mm are your airhorns?

They are 120mm long the biggest that qed sell. I was told to get these to assist with increased torgue but the firewall had to go to fit them. :thumb:

[burgo]

looks an impressive engine. what power you hoping for

[Gareth_C]

looks an impressive engine. what power you hoping for

Cheers mate i was building it for in excess of 250bhp but because i have got hydraulic type cams im limited to about 230bhp.

[Gareth_C]

Sounds like im collecting it tomorrow wondering what power it will have :confused:

[Danny s-p]

Sounds like im collecting it tomorrow wondering what power it will have :confused:make it sing so i can here it in coxhoe lol:thumb:

[Gareth_C]

make it sing so i can here it in coxhoe lol:thumb:

Its not that loud mate lol

[Gareth_C]

Well I picked it back up today looks good for york next sunday feels quick just hope the weather holds

[dj_wudgey]

So will I looking forward to it lol three years worth of problems with it its all coming together ;)

nice mate good to hear its getting there!!

[Danny s-p]

Well I picked it back up today looks good for york next sunday feels quick just hope the weather holdsi hop the weather hold's up can't wat to hear it on the strip.:thumb:

[Gareth_C]

i hop the weather hold's up can't wat to hear it on the strip.:thumb:

lets hope so mate looking hopeful so far

[Danny s-p]

lets hope so mate looking hopeful so farget some more pic up lol

[Gareth_C]

get some more pic up lol

lol i will mate get some more at the weekend got my axle back today aswell

[Danny s-p]

gd gd how lindon's v6 going is it reddy for york

[Gareth_C]

gd gd how lindon's v6 going is it reddy for york

looking like it ish you know them too will get finished on sat night

[Danny s-p]

wat it been getting done and am i still coming to york in the bus

[scott.parker]

Dam nice car, love the engine build mate, what power/torque is it at right now?

Scott

[Gareth_C]

Dam nice car, love the engine build mate, what power/torque is it at right now?

Scott

Hi scott the car is producing 265bhp at the flywheel and 200ftlb torque :thumb:

[Gareth_C]

quite a few people have asked for the engine spec so here goes :thumb:

QED direct to head throttle bodies
kent very high lift cams
coscast fully ported and polished cylinder head with double valve springs stainless steel one piece 1mm bigger valves
wossner pistons running about 13:1 compression
steel rods
acl lead/copper bearings
autosprint forged steel crank (through choice though)
full arp studs and bolt throughout
TTv one piece billet flywheel
and a 4 paddle helix clutch

If I can think of anything else I will add on lol lol :thumb:

[scott.parker]

Nice spec, and very good figures mate, Humm i think maybe i should invest in internal mods then for next year...

[Gareth_C]

Nice spec, and very good figures mate, Humm i think maybe i should invest in internal mods then for next year...

Its good when you have something N/A and fast but its something I have found you have to very comitted to finacially cause a few times I have thought how much easier a turbo engine would have been and probably got over 400bhp for the money I have spent but now its running right I would change it for any turbo engine. :thumb:

[scott.parker]

Yeah Ive never really wanted to spend money internally as Ive been to worried that "if" something whent wrong it's mega money to sort it all, where as how it is now, it's just rebuild the head/buy new head and rebuild, or same on bottom end etc, and wont cost no more then £500-600 to do etc..

I'll think on it lol

[Gareth_C]

Well It looks like the hard work has paid off got it to york on sun 2nd managed to get a 13.1 on a naff day looking forward to a dry warm day if there is ever one lol.
I will get some pics up of the engine bay etc

[Danny s-p]

i think we need some more pic on here of this sexy little thing

[Gareth_C]

I will get some pics shortly mate

[Gareth_C]

A bit of an update seeing as I havent added for a while went to the last york and found problems with the engine presurising the oil and water got one run out the car and left a trail of oil up the track. limped the car home and found the hea was worped on cylinder 3. After the head was checked been told its cream crackered. So im reverting to a standard head for totb. then think about modding the head again so watch what happens next.

[Gareth_C]

Got my head back this weekend will have the valve springs swapped and it running again (fingers crossed) then ready for totb lol

[pikey1986]

bad news about the head but on the plus side managed a fooking good time

[Gareth_C]

bad news about the head but on the plus side managed a fooking good time

I know its quite scary to think if it will run a flat 13 with a warped head what will it do when the engine is spot on

[Gareth_C]

well I have took these pics from vauxsports site so though i would share them this is me at totb im still not happy with the car lol so im thinking the car goes on another diet and add some more mods :thumb:
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1005.jpghttp://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1009.jpghttp://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1038.jpghttp://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1202.jpghttp://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1217.jpghttp://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/totb%209/IMG_1301.jpg

[david dixon]

can't you post pictures right ha ha :thumb:

[Gareth_C]

can't you post pictures right ha ha :thumb:

Whats wrong with them like :roll:

[scott.parker]

think he means as there all in a row, instead of under each other

So you have done them like so..

nova 1bfdgadfbgi314234jpeg// nova2 gkhns/jpeg

where as they should be be like so..

nova 1bfdgadfbgi314234jpeg//

nova2 gkhns/jpeg

:thumb:

Still dont matter really, what times did you get??

Scott

[Gareth_C]

still dont matter really, what times did you get??

Scott[/quote]

i got 45.63 round the handling and 13.6 on the strip so im still not happy with it wanna get into the 12's next year and get better on the track.

[Gareth_C]

Well a bit of an update i think the nova's race season is up for the year I took it to york today got half way up the strip and well and truely broke 3rd gear. But thought it would drive home ok got a mile from the track and cooked the full box. Me think a f28 6 speed for next year

[dj_wudgey]

^^ gutted to hear it matey but bigger and better eh lol

[Sloth]

sequential ftw....

[Gareth_C]

sequential ftw....

Id love to rob if i had the money mat ebut an f28 will do

[dj_wudgey]

yea would be a tad on the expensive side eh lol

[Gareth_C]

Yeah they are harsh

[Gareth_C]

Well I obtained the f28 box from browney (cheers mate) and on the way home did a slight detour to collect a wing for danny sp so will get pics up and get this grafted on shortly :thumb:

[scott.parker]

Just read about the box, was going to say just lob on another F20 and grab another for when it blows again! lol
I killed mine in my old silk violet when going from 4th to 5th, but i was doing about 142mph @ 7300rpm.. so maybe i should of changed to 5th sooner! lol lol

What your thinking behind the F28 then, is the FD closer to 4.0 then the F20?

As surly the F20 would be better ratios no??

Scott

[Gareth_C]

Just read about the box, was going to say just lob on another F20 and grab another for when it blows again! lol
I killed mine in my old silk violet when going from 4th to 5th, but i was doing about 142mph @ 7300rpm.. so maybe i should of changed to 5th sooner! lol lol

What your thinking behind the F28 then, is the FD closer to 4.0 then the F20?

As surly the F20 would be better ratios no??

Scott

The ratios are pretty much the same (see below) and im putting it on because im looking to max the engines power over the winter (hoping 275bhp plus) and the rumour is the F28's are stronger than the f20's.

Gearbox 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th rev FDR
================================================== ======
F20(3.55) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.55
F20(3.72) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.72
F28 3.57 2.16 1.45 1.1 0.89 0.74 3.32 3.72

[Danny s-p]

can any one see the problem with the box i can't lol

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0643.jpg

look like reverse wonted out in this pic

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0644.jpg

well done gareth you did god job of that one lol

[david dixon]

f20's aren't worth a light!

[Gareth_C]

Well I guess if your going to smash a box may aswell do it right lol :thumb:

[Will F]

F28 is a bad idea imo - its the revs that kill the F20 - so I would imagine that the F28 wont be too happy either (although they are stronger I guess) Its the torque that kills F20s on LETs etc....

However your biggest prob is weight - they are about 30% heavier than an F20 - I wouldve saved up for an SCCR if I were you....

[Gareth_C]

F28 is a bad idea imo - its the revs that kill the F20 - so I would imagine that the F28 wont be too happy either (although they are stronger I guess) Its the torque that kills F20s on LETs etc....

However your biggest prob is weight - they are about 30% heavier than an F20 - I wouldve saved up for an SCCR if I were you....

TBH will the price I got the f28 for was peanuts so its worth a shot. And in imy calculations with weight saving of the engine and engine bay the added weight from the f28 would probably equal it to a standard c20xe engine anyway. Failing that its going on another diet so im looking to loose about 20-30kg's off the car anyway. As for the torque im only running around 200ft lbs so im sure an f28 can cope. :thumb:

[BRoadGhost]

Revs doesn't kill boxes, torque does.

F20 relates to the 200ft/LB of torque it can handle & F28 is 280ft/LB respectively.

[Gareth_C]

I was told it was something like that.at least even if i push the engine past 270bhp the f28 can handle it. :thumb:

[Danny s-p]

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0549.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0550.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0552.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0551.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0553.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/Photo0554.jpg

[Gareth_C]

bout time you put those pics up lol :thumb:

[dj_wudgey]

looks good matey bet its fun to drive!!

[Gareth_C]

looks good matey bet its fun to drive!!

It always a good laugh esp when you see some peoples face when you crusie past them. It s a good alrounder really wonder what it will be like when I try and get it to 275bhp+:confused: :thumb:

[Will F]

A mate who revved his XE passed 8600 regularly, ate around 3 boxes in a month when he first fitted his - he had to get a SCCR cluster in the end - it couldnt have been down to torque either - was 170 ish...

I know the main killer is torque, but prolonged spells above 8k isnt conducive to a long and healthy life either!

[Gareth_C]

A mate who revved his XE passed 8600 regularly, ate around 3 boxes in a month when he first fitted his - he had to get a SCCR cluster in the end - it couldnt have been down to torque either - was 170 ish...

I know the main killer is torque, but prolonged spells above 8k isnt conducive to a long and healthy life either!

I think ill give the f28 a go first if it pos thats then I will have to get a sccr box but its not cash i wanna be spending atm :thumb:

[Will F]

You also should add an air filter - I cant see if there is a back plate on there, it doesnt look like it?

Take it from a bloke whose 1600 Tb'd lump ate a screw at 7500 rpm.

Also - remove that rear brace and fit properly! ;)

[david dixon]

Gareth if you need a filter give me a shout

[Gareth_C]

You also should add an air filter - I cant see if there is a back plate on there, it doesnt look like it?

Take it from a bloke whose 1600 Tb'd lump ate a screw at 7500 rpm.

Also - remove that rear brace and fit properly! ;)

Whats wrong with the rear brace, :confused:

[Gareth_C]

Gareth if you need a filter give me a shout

What filter you got like dave.

[burgo]

Whats wrong with the rear brace, :confused:its rubber mounted!! how can you expect something to strengthen the shell when its mounted on something that flexs lol

[david dixon]

What filter you got like dave.
i have a carbs/tb filter

;) edit

[Will F]

Whats wrong with the rear brace, :confused:

You cant mount it to the strut tops on the rear - this has no bearing on the stiffness of the shell..

Remove it, trim it down and weld it between the rear strut mounts - not the struts themselves.

[Danny s-p]

will f what is your problem this lad's air con guy not a mechanic and he built this in his back garden can you not give a little bit respect for that. in ideal world gareth wood have every think perfect. but were in the real word and i think he do well to say this came out his shed.

[Rich]

Also - remove that rear brace and fit properly! ;)

Going by the smiley i dont think he meant anything bad by it, just giving advice. Hes got the strut brace mounted on 2 rubber mounts that are designed to flex. Best way would be a bar welded between the metal of the turrets (like in mikes 'how to' in the articles)

[Gareth_C]

Going by the smiley i dont think he meant anything bad by it, just giving advice. Hes got the strut brace mounted on 2 rubber mounts that are designed to flex. Best way would be a bar welded between the metal of the turrets (like in mikes 'how to' in the articles)

thats just how it was designed mate but when i turret the rear over the winter im going to weld it in along with the roll cage so it matches :thumb:

[Gareth_C]

Well its been a while since I did anything on this due to concentrating on wwmnw's car. BUt I finally got into fitting bits i hd to use just generally messing about lol.
Pics:

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/SDC10662.jpg
Rollcage before we started.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/SDC10668.jpg
After it was painted. We then test fitted it in the car but I cant find the pic :confused:
Next.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/SDC10685.jpg
Started trial fitting the fibreglass tail gate.
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/SDC10692.jpg
Mounted on the car correctly. ready to take back off and paint.
Hopefully over the next week get the tailgate coloured in a finished. :thumb:

[Gareth_C]

A little update the roll cage is now 85% welded in just needs tidying up and finishing then ite will be onto the removal of the dash, wheel well and a few extra items. On the plus point been told my wings have have been widened by 25mm are ready to pic up so will have them fitted asap

[Gareth_C]

I also know its a bit late but here is a few pics of the engine when it was going together.

ttv flywheel:
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/15042008022.jpg
big valve head now on standard for the time being
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/06122007008.jpg
steel rods
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/15102008071.jpg
throttle bodies
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00536-2.jpg
engine
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC00534.jpg

[Gareth_C]

and the 205/50/14 streel legal strip tyres i bought for it, they werent cheap
http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/12072008051.jpg

[NOV4_SPORT]

Very nice nova mate like it a lot.

iain

[Gareth_C]

Very nice nova mate like it a lot.

iain

cheers Iain

[Danny s-p]

wow you have updated it :eek::eek:

[Gareth_C]

lol yeah there only a couple 0f about 86 pics to put up

[Danny s-p]

lol yeah there only a couple 0f about 86 pics to put upshow all or it a lie png rule lol

[wwmnw]

A little update the roll cage is now 85% welded in just needs tidying up and finishing then ite will be onto the removal of the dash, wheel well and a few extra items. On the plus point been told my wings have have been widened by 25mm are ready to pic up so will have them fitted asap

Wouldn't it have been easier to cut the floor out before fitting the cage? I can see you banging your head a few times and getting stressed out lol I'm off tomorrow thursday and friday if you need a hand :thumb:

[Danny s-p]

Wouldn't it have been easier to cut the floor out before fitting the cage? I can see you banging your head a few times and getting stressed out lol I'm off tomorrow thursday and friday if you need a hand :thumb: good points am keep well away lol

[Gareth_C]

Wouldn't it have been easier to cut the floor out before fitting the cage? I can see you banging your head a few times and getting stressed out lol I'm off tomorrow thursday and friday if you need a hand :thumb:

6 and two 3's mate because im only taking the wheel well out its doest affect where and cage sits and I havent got the plate to replace it so need that first.

[philip]

looking good, what spec is the engine going? and whats been done to the head? just ive had some problems with a certain companies steel caps failing thats all. alos if need any pistons, cams, etc drop me a pm.

[Gareth_C]

looking good, what spec is the engine going? and whats been done to the head? just ive had some problems with a certain companies steel caps failing thats all. alos if need any pistons, cams, etc drop me a pm.

Hi Philip
Cheers mate the spec is as follows:

QED 45mm DTH tb's
syntec adjustable fpr
bosch green injectors (apparently from a porsche turbo :confused: )
DTA S40 ecu
QED/ DTA loom with a innovate wideband
Cometic steel head gasket
88mm Wossiner piston 12.6:1 ratio
steel rods
Forged 4340 steel knife edged crank
ACL big end and main bearings
ARP head & main studs, rod bolts, flywheel bolts
Bottom end lightened and balanced
4-2-1 manifold and 2.5" straight though exhaust.
ttv lightweight flywheel
Helix 4 paddle clutch
F28 (YES 6 SPEED ON A XE WITH A FLAT FLYWHEEL lol )

Im adding a pace dry sump kit over the winter, a set of sbd cams the biggest ones. and a CNCed head ported and polised with a 25% airflow increase iirc with +1mm bigger valves etc.
Hope this helps

If I think of anything else ill add it to the list

[philip]

if want a proper cnc head go through martin bowyer matey. i wouldnt go through cncheads imho. cam wise id also speak to martin. im running newmans full race but then im only looking at about 260bhp or so and peaking at 8k. if you've gone steel crank then id think your looking at 9k rpm up? btw which crank have you gone for?

and if want decent springs/caps let me know i get discount from catcams and newman also if went for something custom too. you would want a 27mm port bore on the inlets if looking for circa 270bhp. JRE go as far as a 28mm parallel port bore but you have to weld the undersied of the inlets up as it breaks through.

ive got a speiss F3 head im reworking for a lad if wanted i can take measurments so you can see what your having done. but i know the ex ports are matched to the gaskets only. its the inlets which have more work and for the cost of a cnc head unless competing then theres nothing wrong with having one port biored then finished by hand

[BMW335I]

thats going to be fast

[Gareth_C]

if want a proper cnc head go through martin bowyer matey. i wouldnt go through cncheads imho. cam wise id also speak to martin. im running newmans full race but then im only looking at about 260bhp or so and peaking at 8k. if you've gone steel crank then id think your looking at 9k rpm up? btw which crank have you gone for?

and if want decent springs/caps let me know i get discount from catcams and newman also if went for something custom too. you would want a 27mm port bore on the inlets if looking for circa 270bhp. JRE go as far as a 28mm parallel port bore but you have to weld the undersied of the inlets up as it breaks through.

ive got a speiss F3 head im reworking for a lad if wanted i can take measurments so you can see what your having done. but i know the ex ports are matched to the gaskets only. its the inlets which have more work and for the cost of a cnc head unless competing then theres nothing wrong with having one port biored then finished by hand

Im using a autosprint crank mate. as for the valvetrain equiptment ill be using SBD's as they match the cams with the lobes being so big its the only stuff I can run and the power band of the cams is from 2500 to 9700 quoted on sbd. im looking at using a cnc head so the ports are going to be equal across all 4 as what im looking for is going to be that close everything needs to be right first time.

[Gareth_C]

thats going to be fast

Cheers im actually basing the updated spec on 292bhp+ that sbd build but if i can get over 275bhp on a dyno dynamics RR ill be happy because that in theroy should be about 400bhp per tonne

[philip]

what are you using the car for matey? are you running slipper or pot type pistons? just if on pot type then personally you dont want to rev the engine anywhere near 9.7k, pistons will be too heavy.

as for the head: http://www.ultimatep.com/shopinfo_port_machining.asp said to be best in the country compared to rick woods, northampton motorsport etc.

dont want to seem a **** btw, just some advice thats all as i know how much a decent xe costs

[Gareth_C]

what are you using the car for matey? are you running slipper or pot type pistons? just if on pot type then personally you dont want to rev the engine anywhere near 9.7k, pistons will be too heavy.

as for the head: http://www.ultimatep.com/shopinfo_port_machining.asp said to be best in the country compared to rick woods, northampton motorsport etc.

dont want to seem a **** btw, just some advice thats all as i know how much a decent xe costs

Its for drag racing and circuit car mate bit of a all rounder really. the pistons are pot type mate. I'm hoping they will be ok the cams im getting are supplied in both of sbd's 272 (this uses pot pistons) and 290 kits (uses slipper pistons) and I have had a good chat with the guy when I was pricing things up and he the engine spec was fine.

[philip]

ah fair enough matey, will be nice to see it once built:D just that i know the wossners are quite a heavy piston thats all compared to likes of cp and omegas so may have an affect at such high rpm, but if enigne builder said its ok then fair enough:D

[Gareth_C]

cheers Philip The weight of the pistons are 298grams each so I dont know how that fair up. Cheers for the advice though mate:thumb:

[philip]

not bad then, but def have a rethink on the cam front as really you dont need to go any higher than 9k rpm or even 8.5k imho you'll be having to rebuild it every 12months easily and replace half the parts too. ill have a chat with martin bowyer if you'd like and see what he suggests cam wise that would see you around the 270+ bracket, but i know his answer would be go for more grunt than peak. dont forget the kitcars sbd tends to test their engines in are alot lighter than a nova or corsa etc so even less strain on everything.

[Will F]

not bad then, but def have a rethink on the cam front as really you dont need to go any higher than 9k rpm or even 8.5k imho you'll be having to rebuild it every 12months easily and replace half the parts too. ill have a chat with martin bowyer if you'd like and see what he suggests cam wise that would see you around the 270+ bracket, but i know his answer would be go for more grunt than peak. dont forget the kitcars sbd tends to test their engines in are alot lighter than a nova or corsa etc so even less strain on everything.

I would say that it will need rebuilding more often if its used properly!

And agreed - deffo no point in chasing figures - 275 sounds impressive, but I would bet that you give up and go for a much usable figure that means you arent clenching your buttocks when you pass 9k rpm....

Also I would rethink the F28 - with that kind of spec I would go with a Sccr at least.

In terms of the pistons, I too was told not to use pot-type pistons if it spends much time over 8k - slipper are significantly lighter and more at home at that rev range...

Finally - I would get some 'proper' injectors - Bosch greens (404s I aassume?) are a bit old school - you need some high-flowing Picos at least imo.

[Gareth_C]

Tbh will I did think about the box choice and as I want a all round car then a cr box maybe stronger but not brilliant top end. And if a f28 can hold it's own in 600bhp+ c20lets I should be fine. As for the pistons if most companys can run them at 270 them I'll suck it and see. If I wanted safe easy options then I would stick with the cams I have now mate

[philip]

what cams have you got now matey? no-ones knocking the build at all matey, but from experiance, number chasing is expensive & reliability and rebuilds are dear and a genuine 250bhp in a nova or corsa would be more than suitable. ive seen rally cars with big powered xes being hammered buy the 'milder' 230-250bhp cars as the power comes in alot low in the rpm range. + in all honesty i wouldnt trust the autosprint crank to nearly 10k, but thats just me.

Will - 803s were the old cossie injectors, pico 600cc or similar ftw, most xes ive seen with big power tend to run cp and omegas compared to wossners, as people found the wossners were abit heavy compared.

[Jonlem]

Scrap the F28, you will be replacing them all the time as they don't like high rpm.

Its a atmo engine, looking for top end is totally the wrong way to look at it and even if you use a Quaife sc box you can use a suitable fd which at those revs will comfortably gear it to over 150mph where as the F28 is possibly more like 200mph at those revs.

Think carefully about the spec, its not what I would be putting in a engine I would be expecting that power from and I am sure many would agree.

[Gareth_C]

what cams have you got now matey? no-ones knocking the build at all matey, but from experiance, number chasing is expensive & reliability and rebuilds are dear and a genuine 250bhp in a nova or corsa would be more than suitable. ive seen rally cars with big powered xes being hammered buy the 'milder' 230-250bhp cars as the power comes in alot low in the rpm range. + in all honesty i wouldnt trust the autosprint crank to nearly 10k, but thats just me.

Will - 803s were the old cossie injectors, pico 600cc or similar ftw, most xes ive seen with big power tend to run cp and omegas compared to wossners, as people found the wossners were abit heavy compared.

I dont think for a second thats people are knocking the build mate as its each to there opinoin, and quite frankly I dont care lol.
Im using kent 1623 cams at present which I have seen 263bhp from. And as for the "crank" everyone you speak to in the tuning game will say that the other tuner's parts or tuning methods are rubbish for instance I could ask QED, SBD or even swindon what they think about the tuning guys you recommend and if they say he's crap then who do I beleive?
As for the build cost the engine bill is at 6k at present :cry: :cry:

[Gareth_C]

Scrap the F28, you will be replacing them all the time as they don't like high rpm.

Its a atmo engine, looking for top end is totally the wrong way to look at it and even if you use a Quaife sc box you can use a suitable fd which at those revs will comfortably gear it to over 150mph where as the F28 is possibly more like 200mph at those revs.

Think carefully about the spec, its not what I would be putting in a engine I would be expecting that power from and I am sure many would agree.

If I could afford the sccr box mate I would consider buying one (donations welcome if you wanna put you money where your mouth is :p )
Like I say I have seen f28's running 600bhp and revving to 8k with not much issue. Cheers

[wwmnw]

Doesn't Specky use an F28?

[Jonlem]

Yes and has broken several.

If your building a 275hp all steel xe I can't see why a £1500 gearkit is such an issue.

Trying to build this on a budget WILL end in disaster, I know people who do it for a living and there is a good reason why customers literally spend 10k on such a engine, its also why I didn't build one for my Escort when I felt there was a cheaper alternative.

[Danny s-p]

that the first i have heard of specky blown one :confused:

[Jonlem]

He isn't the first person to break one either.

They don't like fast changes and its now getting very hard to find a good one or the spares to repair one.

This engine being built needs to be on a sccr gearset minimum, F28 is not suitable.

[Gareth_C]

He isn't the first person to break one either.

They don't like fast changes and its now getting very hard to find a good one or the spares to repair one.

This engine being built needs to be on a sccr gearset minimum, F28 is not suitable.

well thats fair enough mate and thanks for the advice but at present ill stick with the box and if it goes then ill look at another avenue but at present I wanna get the car to be in the 12's on the strip. so the engine upgrade come first.:thumb:

[Gareth_C]

Just done some enquiry's in regards to the upgrade idea and I have been told to try changing the head only first as the cams and current spec should push to 260bhp plus with a good mapp

[david dixon]

Yes and has broken several.

Only the sincro's have broken on speckys tigra, never the gearing! but he has no choice in what box he uses without spending a fortune.

David.

[david dixon]

Gareth you r engine spec with a cnc or cery good flowed head will see 260bhp if setup right!
Those pistons are fine.

Too many people go on about cheap rods and pistons for no reason, they proven to work ok even on specky tigra, 600bhp!

David.

[Jonlem]

Only the sincro's have broken on speckys tigra, never the gearing! but he has no choice in what box he uses without spending a fortune.

David.

Broken syncros is a broken box, sorry but £1500 is not a fortune when you have spent £1000 on a crankshaft surely ?

[david dixon]

As he said in a early post, people have their own opinions on things!
If he is happy with the 6 speed then so be it.

David.

[Gareth_C]

Cheers dave.:thumb:

[Danny s-p]

i have my popcorn ready :-)

[Will F]

If I could afford the sccr box mate I would consider buying one (donations welcome if you wanna put you money where your mouth is :p )
Like I say I have seen f28's running 600bhp and revving to 8k with not much issue. Cheers

Like Jonboy says - building a 275 bhp GENUINE lump is going to blitz £6k. You are looking at around 12-15k I would imagine... making a £1300 gear kit a drop in teh ocean.

You will always get sceptics when big power XEs are brought up - rarely 'see' many passed 240-50 mark, even less on forums - if at all!

[Gareth_C]

Like Jonboy says - building a 275 bhp GENUINE lump is going to blitz £6k. You are looking at around 12-15k I would imagine... making a £1300 gear kit a drop in teh ocean.

You will always get sceptics when big power XEs are brought up - rarely 'see' many passed 240-50 mark, even less on forums - if at all!
I would love to know where you buy your parts from even and 292 kit is itro £10k. Like I said I have spoken people have built or runnng cars that are extremely powerful and have the rep to prove have told to use a +1mm head and mapped for 260+ which is good for now then think about solid cams at a later date. Like I said about sccr's if you wanner donate one I'll try it p

[Jonlem]

Ring up SBD rather than quote what you think their website says and ask for everything to build a 292hp xe.

Crank rods and pistons is more than 3k, cylinder head is 3k so thats your 6k gone. Add tb's, management, injectors, fpr, linkage, exhaust manifold and system, block machining, dry sump setup or zlet pump pickup, proper sump, flywheel, race clutch.

I could go on for a while.

A bargain engine at the minute is the Swindon one on ebay, you just wouldn't want to fix it when it goes wrong.

[Jonlem]

Ring up SBD rather than quote what you think their website says and ask for everything to build a 292hp xe.

Crank rods and pistons is more than 3k, cylinder head is 3k so thats your 6k gone. Add tb's, management, injectors, fpr, linkage, exhaust manifold and system, block machining, dry sump setup or zlet pump pickup, proper sump, flywheel, race clutch.

I could go on for a while.

A bargain engine at the minute is the Swindon one on ebay, you just wouldn't want to fix it when it goes wrong.

[Gareth_C]

Ring up SBD rather than quote what you think their website says and ask for everything to build a 292hp xe.

Crank rods and pistons is more than 3k, cylinder head is 3k so thats your 6k gone. Add tb's, management, injectors, fpr, linkage, exhaust manifold and system, block machining, dry sump setup or zlet pump pickup, proper sump, flywheel, race clutch.

I could go on for a while.

A bargain engine at the minute is the Swindon one on ebay, you just wouldn't want to fix it when it goes wrong.
I did last night because I wanted some clear advice on where to go with the engine build as after all they have a reputation to back up what there saying

[Jonlem]

Strange as they list that engine as £12,662 inc vat minus all the other bits you need, the main difference between the 270hp kit and the 292 kit is the crank so your still way over 10 grand in bits before its even assembled without a good crank.

I know people who have been there and done it and 6k is WAY off what you would do it for unless you start cutting corners.

Your looking at £1000 for a exhaust manifold and system minimum, infact my mates been quoted £1000+ for his system off several people.

Either way, good luck with it.

[c20tbo]

My opinion would be stop chasing bhp using a f28 and stick at maybe 240 reliable and use your cash on a sccr box + diff, good chance it would be a better all rounder and quicker for what your doing than more power and slower changing box?

I ran a quaife sccr running a let at 300, what a difference the box makes matey.

No dig just my input.

Robert

[steveboyslim]

I would love to know where you buy your parts from even and 292 kit is itro £10k. Like I said I have spoken people have built or runnng cars that are extremely powerful and have the rep to prove have told to use a +1mm head and mapped for 260+ which is good for now then think about solid cams at a later date. Like I said about sccr's if you wanner donate one I'll try it p

I would love to know where you buy your parts from and who you have spoken to as you will not get 260 bhp with a +1mm valved head or without solid lifters double springs, steel retainers and mechanical cams.
You will need to regularly rev it over 8500 rpm, so the engine will need a dry sump as oil cavitates at that rpm.
Make sure you get that crank balanced.
Do not be surprised if the block cracks.
Good luck.

Steve

[Gareth_C]

My opinion would be stop chasing bhp using a f28 and stick at maybe 240 reliable and use your cash on a sccr box + diff, good chance it would be a better all rounder and quicker for what your doing than more power and slower changing box?

I ran a quaife sccr running a let at 300, what a difference the box makes matey.

No dig just my input.

Robert
Cheers for the advice I am using a diff though a Quakers atb cheers

[c20tbo]

Cheers for the advice I am using a diff though a Quakers atb cheers

I kinda thought you were using a decent diff anyway but like i said the box would be the real benefit, like i said at 240 with the sccr there would be a good chance it being quicker (not top end on the f28 but say to 130mph) than the 275 with f28.

And a lot more reliable, power aint everything got to be able to use it.:thumb:

[Gareth_C]

I would love to know where you buy your parts from and who you have spoken to as you will not get 260 bhp with a +1mm valved head or without solid lifters double springs, steel retainers and mechanical cams.
You will need to regularly rev it over 8500 rpm, so the engine will need a dry sump as oil cavitates at that rpm.
Also a steel crank will be needed and the standard rubber one will not last.
Do not be surprised if the block cracks.
Good luck.

Steve
I have been tAlking to sbd specky and dave d it does have a steel crank and I have already split a Volvo pretty much in 2 so I'm not worried either. Like I say I was on the phone to sbd last night and he could have tried to sell me alsorts really instead told me what I needed which was a CNC. +1mm head and a remapp with the Kent cams that's in should give me itro 260bhp

[Gareth_C]

Strange as they list that engine as £12,662 inc vat minus all the other bits you need, the main difference between the 270hp kit and the 292 kit is the crank so your still way over 10 grand in bits before its even assembled without a good crank.

I know people who have been there and done it and 6k is WAY off what you would do it for unless you start cutting corners.

Your looking at £1000 for a exhaust manifold and system minimum, infact my mates been quoted £1000+ for his system off several people.

Either way, good luck with it.
What's his exhaust made of gold. I went through engine differences with sbd last night and the crank isn't the only difference.
The diffs
272 uses pot pistons and rods. 292 uses slipper heads are different I can go on I spoke to him for 45 mins

[Jonlem]

Manifold is £450, exhaust system from Simpson is S/S and is £1200 + vat, BTB wanted more, still waiting for T logic to get back to him. Why would you want a exhaust in gold when it weighs so much ? Inconel is probably double that if not more.

Right so if the only difference is the crank then as I originally said its a 10k plus engine as that IS how much it costs in parts. The 292 engine is over 15k built.

Dry sump kit installed is near to £2000 on its own with tank, hoses and fittings.

[Gareth_C]

Manifold is £450, exhaust system from Simpson is S/S and is £1200 + vat, BTB wanted more, still waiting for T logic to get back to him. Why would you want a exhaust in gold when it weighs so much ? Inconel is probably double that if not more.

Right so if the only difference is the crank then as I originally said its a 10k plus engine as that IS how much it costs in parts. The 292 engine is over 15k built.

Dry sump kit installed is near to £2000 on its own with tank, hoses and fittings.
I think you have read the post correctly this thread is supposed to be about my build of my car and it seems it has turned into a slanging match of I'm right and your wrong and tbh I can't be chewed with the playground games anymore but thanks for the advice

[AlanH]

seen this in the flesh, really does look the part. Be interesting to see what figures it ends up putting out when done but i agree with what a few people have been saying about a decent box, should make a lot more difference than a few extra bhp, especially after seeing what yours did to an F20 lol although i see your reasoning behind doing it the way you are, you can always fit a decent box later but skimping on engine parts is only ever gonna mean having to pull it apart again at some point

[corsakid]

lmfao its advise by people who have done it before, this is your first big power xe so i would take advise from people who know rather than listen to people who just what you to buy parts off them (sbd) good luck though

[Gareth_C]

Cheers Alan

[Jonlem]

lmfao its advise by people who have done it before, this is your first big power xe so i would take advise from people who know rather than listen to people who just what you to buy parts off them (sbd) good luck though

Clearly were seeking advice off the wrong people lol

If Steve Broughton said all he needs is a head, cams and a remap to get 260hp then f**k me I'd of not bothered buying the Honda engine lol

[Gareth_C]

lmfao its advise by people who have done it before, this is your first big power xe so i would take advise from people who know rather than listen to people who just what you to buy parts off them (sbd) good luck though
The thing is without sbd or Swindon there would xe's at this level really and yes it my first High power xe but it's been ongoing for 3 years so I haven't done masses do and run for a turbo. Power wise it made over 260 current setup with different head so that's where I'm gonna start from again

[Jonlem]

What made over 260hp ?

[corsakid]

Clearly were seeking advice off the wrong people lol

If Steve Broughton said all he needs is a head, cams and a remap to get 260hp then f**k me I'd of not bothered buying the Honda engine lol

exactly lol

[Gareth_C]

Clearly were seeking advice off the wrong people lol

If Steve Broughton said all he needs is a head, cams and a remap to get 260hp then f**k me I'd of not bothered buying the Honda engine lol
Again read the post please and I understand that people have advice and knowledge on this subject but theres a difference between helping and dictating as for the spec I wish it was just cams and head then I wouldn't have bought everything else.

[corsakid]

so 260 bhp on hydraulics :thumb: good one! all the best be watching with interest lol

[Gareth_C]

What made over 260hp ?
The current engine before I had to revert to a standard head again

[corsakid]

The thing is without sbd or Swindon there would xe's at this level really and yes it my first High power xe but it's been ongoing for 3 years so I haven't done masses do and run for a turbo. Power wise it made over 260 current setup with DIFFERENT HEAD so that's where I'm gonna start from again

surely youve just contradicted your self

[Gareth_C]

so 260 bhp on hydraulics :thumb: good one! all the best be watching with interest
Thanks mate like I say from the advice I got from sbd last night it's what they cheers

[Gareth_C]

surely youve just contradicted your self
I'm typing on a IPhone and it changes words mate there is a stor behind it. It got 263bhp but the head was highly skimmed and managed to get a soft spot on the head and leak through the gasket but it still a flat 13 quarter so because tptb was so close my only option was to fit a standard head an a re map

[Jonlem]

The current engine before I had to revert to a standard head again

Full spec, graphs and rollers it went on ?

Sorry to sound harsh but if that was on hydraulics then No way did it make anywhere near that.

Its all fine and well thinking that the costs I'm mentioning are ridiculous but they are from people who actually build reliable race engines, its typical of the internet for people to think they know better but in this case going off what your telling me you have been given bad information.

There are probably more people on there that would back you up than me but then they have probably have no experience in building or speccing such an engine where as I have been involved in a few and certainly have dealt with a few people that do it for a living so have more of a idea than most.

[steveboyslim]

What's his exhaust made of gold. I went through engine differences with sbd last night and the crank isn't the only difference.
The diffs
272 uses pot pistons and rods. 292 uses slipper heads are different I can go on I spoke to him for 45 mins

If you want anywhere near that power you will be paying some where near that or more for an exhaust manifold and system that works, get a quote off either Tony Law or BTB/SBD or if you want stainless Simpson or JP.

Steve

[db_1.2]

My opinion - build it and see, but im with the rest of them, although at first i was convinced this was going to be a monster of a build i must admit.

Like Jonlem said, provide evidence of your work, graph's of power. I never round my figures up to the nearest figure, that instantly shows you never had it RR'd, as you cant even remember the figure. I can remember every one of my dyno runs, the exact figures and operators notes, and i have all my graphs (except 1 i sold with my very last Nova) to prove.

Jonlem - Your sig is very appropiate!

[Danny s-p]

My opinion - build it and see, but im with the rest of them, although at first i was convinced this was going to be a monster of a build i must admit.

Like Jonlem said, provide evidence of your work, graph's of power. I never round my figures up to the nearest figure, that instantly shows you never had it RR'd, as you cant even remember the figure. I can remember every one of my dyno runs, the exact figures and operators notes, and i have all my graphs (except 1 i sold with my very last Nova) to prove.

Jonlem - Your sig is very appropiate!em yes he has had it on a rr and it was tuned on there can't remember if we got a print out or not tho when i wen't with him + it made 195 on a standard head that prity much all that is holding this engine back at the moment + he been on the phone to people (that run some of the fastest cars in the seen ) and they say he on the right track to make it the bhp he really want so for now sit back shut your trap and let him prove you all so wrong watch this space

[db_1.2]

em yes he has had it on a rr and it was tuned on there can't remember if we got a print out or not tho when i wen't with him
You cant remember if you got a print out? What kind of a place was this?!

Most threads ive seen put the proof up without being asked anyway, just for good reading, and maybe even education of other forum users.

195 is good though, on a standard head, also believable. I managed 162 on a completely standard 20XE with just a rebuilt GM head.

[Danny s-p]

You cant remember if you got a print out? What kind of a place was this?!

Most threads ive seen put the proof up without being asked anyway, just for good reading, and maybe even education of other forum users.

195 is good though, on a standard head, also believable. I managed 162 on a completely standard 20XE with just a rebuilt GM head.well i dont no if he got one as he went in to the office to deal with the money side of things. but i do no he has print out for 260+ bhp off another tuner when the big valve head was on that i did not go to with him

[Jonlem]

em yes he has had it on a rr and it was tuned on there can't remember if we got a print out or not tho when i wen't with him + it made 195 on a standard head that prity much all that is holding this engine back at the moment + he been on the phone to people (that run some of the fastest cars in the seen ) and they say he on the right track to make it the bhp he really want so for now sit back shut your trap and let him prove you all so wrong watch this space

Fastest cars in the scene eh, in the willy waving pub talk bhp sort of scene or actual motorsport ?

He can prove me wrong all he likes, he has already back tracked several times and said its the same spec that SBD list for 270 hp which is 10k of anyones money.

I, unlike you are fully aware what it takes to get that power, clearly when the user starts quoting what I say about the costs of exhausts it shows he has NO idea what is involved in putting together such a package.

I'm not surfing the forums to start arguments with anyone and I have a massive interest in atmo engines and for that reason have done my homework on whats needed to build a proper one.

ps read my sig

[Jonlem]

You cant remember if you got a print out? What kind of a place was this?!

Most threads ive seen put the proof up without being asked anyway, just for good reading, and maybe even education of other forum users.

195 is good though, on a standard head, also believable. I managed 162 on a completely standard 20XE with just a rebuilt GM head.

Olly Hewitts engine was 197hp on a stock engine, jenvey tb's, ashley manifold and AST 1612 cams.

That was on a REAL set of rollers I might add.

[Danny s-p]

Fastest cars in the scene eh, in the willy waving pub talk bhp sort of scene or actual motorsport ?

He can prove me wrong all he likes, he has already back tracked several times and said its the same spec that SBD list for 270 hp which is 10k of anyones money.

I, unlike you are fully aware what it takes to get that power, clearly when the user starts quoting what I say about the costs of exhausts it shows he has NO idea what is involved in putting together such a package.

I'm not surfing the forums to start arguments with anyone and I have a massive interest in atmo engines and for that reason have done my homework on whats needed to build a proper one.

ps read my sigvauxhall seen mate read the sig think it canny funny to be true . but we took advise of some people that he trust but you lot just keep going on at him so y not just say ok not how i wood do it but let see your way. just remember most the work is done by him and it his pride and joy how hard wood you defend/feel if its your pride and joy some one was rip it to pieces on a form

[db_1.2]

Olly Hewitts engine was 197hp on a stock engine, jenvey tb's, ashley manifold and AST 1612 cams.

That was on a REAL set of rollers I might add.

Seems about right from what ive seen. Theres a lot of other contributing factors other than the basics of the engine also, as we all know.

It would be impressive to see a 275bhp C20xe built on a budget. But how reliable will it be, dont forget Eff=1-CR^(1-k)

[Danny s-p]

Olly Hewitts engine was 197hp on a stock engine, jenvey tb's, ashley manifold and AST 1612 cams.

That was on a REAL set of rollers I might add.gareths was on a reall set roller to for total vauxhall shoot out the problem was the map was all over the place we don't no y but it will be sorted soon

[db_1.2]

gareths was on a reall set roller to for total vauxhall shoot out the problem was the map was all over the place we don't no y but it will be sorted soon

What issue is it in?

Also, i like your comment about him building it himself, and being his pride. I always respect that and always enjoy reading a thread much more.

I think everybody is just trying to say his goals are optimistic. No need to get all Jacky Chan on us!

[Danny s-p]

What issue is it in?

Also, i like your comment about him building it himself, and being his pride. I always respect that and always enjoy reading a thread much more.

I think everybody is just trying to say his goals are optimistic. No need to get all Jacky Chan on us!i don't mean it to come out like that but it just seams every one just have a dig at him for what he try to achieve and best ask him that i think he asked duggie when it will be out was a good day and a few people said on that day it the head and map holding it back

[Gareth_C]

You cant remember if you got a print out? What kind of a place was this?!

Most threads ive seen put the proof up without being asked anyway, just for good reading, and maybe even education of other forum users.

195 is good though, on a standard head, also believable. I managed 162 on a completely standard 20XE with just a rebuilt GM head.

Think about mate look who made the post before you jump in

[Gareth_C]

lolok guys im a bit done with the negative critisim really its a wip thred not a disscussion thread and yes I have a RR print out. But it seems like you are all BIG experts lets see your big power RR prinouts from N/A xe's please as Im not trying to prove anything and seem to, either that or you all have small man syndrome lol

[Gareth_C]

on a more positive note I have been and picked up my new wings from being made and im really happy with them:

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC02862.jpg


http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC02864.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC02868.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC02865.jpg

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx256/gaffs2000/DSC02866.jpg

They have widened by 30mm just enought to fit my tyres snuggly under the arches.
Cheers

[Mieran]

Are they metal or fiberglass?

Nice paintwork

[Danny s-p]

there gay lol joking we fitting them on satday

[Gareth_C]

Are they metal or fiberglass?

Nice paintwork

there metal mate I didnt want the fibreglass ones as they are 100mm extra on each side:thumb:

[Gareth_C]

there gay lol joking we fitting them on satday

only if you and snowdon swear not to scratch them when going past the car :cry: :thumb:

[Mieran]

who made them?

are going to be running low offset or spacers?

What about the back?

[Danny s-p]

only if you and snowdon swear not to scratch them when going past the car :cry: :thumb:em em all try now i need som help so am going to call you

[Gareth_C]

who made them?

are going to be running low offset or spacers?

What about the back?

Im running spacers at present with me having Et46mm wheels with 205 R88's on avo dont mix on standard arch.
The back are staying standard due to they dont need widening.
A friend on mine made them for me :thumb:

[Gareth_C]

em em all try now i need som help so am going to call youim here

[wwmnw]

**** me, all the tuning gods of the world have descended onto this thread, how very nice of them eh, Gareth. Maybe I'm biased as I've helped on this car build too (cleaning spanners is a hard job) but it would be nice if people would just step the **** back and watch this build hit its target as Gareth wont stop til he hits his mark, trust me, I've been unlucky enough to know this lad since I was 13 ish :( lol

Wings are looking nice by the way Mr.Monobrow :thumb:

[david dixon]

Fantastic, keep cracking with it mate.

[Gareth_C]

**** me, all the tuning gods of the world have descended onto this thread, how very nice of them eh, Gareth. Maybe I'm biased as I've helped on this car build too (cleaning spanners is a hard job) but it would be nice if people would just step the **** back and watch this build hit its target as Gareth wont stop til he hits his mark, trust me, I've been unlucky enough to know this lad since I was 13 ish :( lol

Wings are looking nice by the way Mr.Monobrow :thumb:

cheers Mr staypuff if you do the truffle shuffle ill give you a marshmallow

[Danny s-p]

hey fat boy arrived

[Gareth_C]

Fantastic, keep cracking with it mate.

cheers dave thats how you should get your wings mate. :thumb:

[david dixon]

cheers dave thats how you should get your wings mate. :thumb:

Yeah thats how i want them mate

David.

[Gareth_C]

Yeah thats how i want them mate

David.

I think they will finish the car off on the outside with the other mods lol just hope it fits throught the gap :confused: :cry:

[Will F]

Although this is a wip thread it has some decent and honest discussion about the perils of modifying an XE.

Thats what happens on forums - thats the purpose.

Its clear (for me) that you are inexperienced in modifying, whereas some of the reponses (Jonlem, Steve, Corsakid, Phillip and me! lol) are built from experience and have made some mistakes along the way - so we know a bit more...

To see over 260 you need solid lifters, a pukka manifold and exhaust, some decent injectors (probably 8, not 4), plus all the other bits mentioned and about £10-13k.

I have a pretty well specced XE and it has cost me a few quid - it just gets my goat when people say "pfff, you only have XX bhp?? My mate has 275 bhp with a race head"

No one is slagging you off, if you post that you will get 275 with these mods etc, and its not right - then people will disagree.

FACT.

[Adam]

lolok guys im a bit done with the negative critisim really its a wip thred not a disscussion thread and yes I have a RR print out. But it seems like you are all BIG experts lets see your big power RR prinouts from N/A xe's please as Im not trying to prove anything and seem to, either that or you all have small man syndrome lol
Ive got a printout for a 180bhp standard xe.... :thumb:
Dont really mean much.


Anyway, engine bits etc look well :)

[Jonlem]

Thanks for the backup Will, you have covered everything and I know you are well aware what these things cost.

[Jonlem]

As for specs and costs, a quick run down of my mates :

Stock crank
Cat Cams Rods £670
86.5mm Accralite flat tops £500
Blydenstein head £800
Piper double springs £250
Arrow solid lifters and shims £300
QED 450 camshafts £400+
Jenvey 48mm tapered throttle bodies and MBE 967 ECU £2000
Steel flywheel £250
AP clutch £450
Simpson manifold and system £1500

That was a 230hp specced engine, made 224 with iffy cam timing and yes I have the graphs, that adds upto over 7k and thats not included a LOT of parts it had like pulleys, machining, gaskets, oil pump etc...

[Will F]

Thanks for the backup Will, you have covered everything and I know you are well aware what these things cost.

NP - wish you were closer, I want to slap some TBs on the Honda and want your skillzzzlol

[Jonlem]

There is a lovely engine on ebay with tb's, dry sump the lot ! ;)

[Gareth_C]

Although this is a wip thread it has some decent and honest discussion about the perils of modifying an XE.

Thats what happens on forums - thats the purpose.

Its clear (for me) that you are inexperienced in modifying, whereas some of the reponses (Jonlem, Steve, Corsakid, Phillip and me! lol) are built from experience and have made some mistakes along the way - so we know a bit more...

To see over 260 you need solid lifters, a pukka manifold and exhaust, some decent injectors (probably 8, not 4), plus all the other bits mentioned and about £10-13k.

I have a pretty well specced XE and it has cost me a few quid - it just gets my goat when people say "pfff, you only have XX bhp?? My mate has 275 bhp with a race head"

No one is slagging you off, if you post that you will get 275 with these mods etc, and its not right - then people will disagree.

FACT.

Plus points for how many for your friends you could mention in one post :thumb:
well If you read what I said I wasnt expecting to get said power from I currently have im not thick. thats what my ultimate goal

[Gareth_C]

Ive got a printout for a 180bhp standard xe.... :thumb:
Dont really mean much.


Anyway, engine bits etc look well :)

Cheers mate.

[Gareth_C]

As for specs and costs, a quick run down of my mates :

Stock crank
Cat Cams Rods £670
86.5mm Accralite flat tops £500
Blydenstein head £800
Piper double springs £250
Arrow solid lifters and shims £300
QED 450 camshafts £400+
Jenvey 48mm tapered throttle bodies and MBE 967 ECU £2000
Steel flywheel £250
AP clutch £450
Simpson manifold and system £1500

That was a 230hp specced engine, made 224 with iffy cam timing and yes I have the graphs, that adds upto over 7k and thats not included a LOT of parts it had like pulleys, machining, gaskets, oil pump etc...

Well either graphs count on this website or not lol and there is no mention of a SCCR box doesnt he know what he is doing :p

The costing i put up was a estimate not a actual final figure. but lets talk numbers then:

DTH bodies £2000
dta + loom £1000
pistons £550
Rods £300
Forged steel crank £835
Double valve springs £200
Cams £400
GM lifters £200
TTV Flywheel £200
Clutch £400
Manifold £300
Exhaust £300
potential head £2000
Plus bearings, machining, ancilieries, ARP's etc so because My build will be nearer £8k By right pub figures this means my enigne is better than your mates cause it costs more :thumb:

[Danny s-p]

Am on my bb and that last bit made me piss my. Self and drop the phone lol as we have said to you all watch this space
Well either graphs count on this website or not lol and there is no mention of a SCCR box doesnt he know what he is doing :p

The costing i put up was a estimate not a actual final figure. but lets talk numbers then:

DTH bodies £2000
dta + loom £1000
pistons £550
Rods £300
Forged steel crank £835
Double valve springs £200
Cams £400
GM lifters £200
TTV Flywheel £200
Clutch £400
Manifold £300
Exhaust £300
potential head £2000
Plus bearings, machining, ancilieries, ARP's etc so because My build will be nearer £8k By right pub figures this means my enigne is better than your mates cause it costs more :thumb:

[corsakid]

This is turning into a comedy thread, why would you plan to spend 2k on a head then run it on hydraulics! But spend another grand on a crank! And you want it to be reliable I take it, ( well I would for 8k ) but the fact is it's not going to be! Not unless you spec all the components accordingly, people are trying to offer you advice, how you take that advice is up to you weather you see it as criticism or an attack against you! It's not noone wants to see you throw 8 grand into something for it to end in a component failure and all end in a swarf infested oily mess on a drag strip or a track!

[Jonlem]

Yawn

Hydraulic lifters eh, ok mate, you clearly know best.

It has f**k all to do with my mates costing more, its the fact it was built with that power in mind and thats what it had to cost.

What exhaust manifold are you using as there are probably only 2 off the shelf manifolds that are known to work on high output xe's, the others have to be custom and you take your chances using those.

You have back tracked more and more in the last few pages, one minute its going to be 260+hp when its built, now its just your goal eventually ? its not going to make much power at all if you can't rev it, you do understand that don't you lol

Whilst you have some nice parts sitting there and its not yet assembled I would advise you consider changing the spec a little to solid lifters, solid profile camshafts and maybe take note about the issues with xe's breathing so look into a Tony Law or BTB manifold as you will need it to achieve the numbers your looking at.

It might benefit you to stop being a pi55taker and actually take some advice from people who DO know whats needed to make those sort of numbers from the chosen engine rather than think were all internet experts and don't know what were talking about, especially Steve when he has been there many many times.

[Gareth_C]

This is turning into a comedy thread, why would you plan to spend 2k on a head then run it on hydraulics! But spend another grand on a crank! And you want it to be reliable I take it, ( well I would for 8k ) but the fact is it's not going to be! Not unless you spec all the components accordingly, people are trying to offer you advice, how you take that advice is up to you weather you see it as criticism or an attack against you! It's not noone wants to see you through 8 grand into something for it to end in a component failure and all end in a swarf infested oily mess on a drag strip or a track!

I know some people are giving advice but then it turns into a slagging match just because something is slightly different to how I have been told it needs to be. I understand that at that level tolerences are so close its unbelivable to even think of the consequenses ( I have twice) all im getting at its not construction advice or critism it reads like its a piss take :thumb:

[corsakid]

I know some people are giving advice but then it turns into a slagging match just because something is slightly different to how I have been told it needs to be. I understand that at that level tolerences are so close its unbelivable to even think of the consequenses ( I have twice) all im getting at its not construction advice or critism it reads like its a piss take :thumb:


So if you understand tolerances are so tight WHY are you planning to run it on hydraulics and ****y cams?

[Gareth_C]

Yawn

Hydraulic lifters eh, ok mate, you clearly know best.

It has f**k all to do with my mates costing more, its the fact it was built with that power in mind and thats what it had to cost.

What exhaust manifold are you using as there are probably only 2 off the shelf manifolds that are known to work on high output xe's, the others have to be custom and you take your chances using those.

You have back tracked more and more in the last few pages, one minute its going to be 260+hp when its built, now its just your goal eventually ? its not going to make much power at all if you can't rev it, you do understand that don't you lol

Whilst you have some nice parts sitting there and its not yet assembled I would advise you consider changing the spec a little to solid lifters, solid profile camshafts and maybe take note about the issues with xe's breathing so look into a Tony Law or BTB manifold as you will need it to achieve the numbers your looking at.

It might benefit you to stop being a pi55taker and actually take some advice from people who DO know whats needed to make those sort of numbers from the chosen engine rather than think were all internet experts and don't know what were talking about, especially Steve when he has been there many many times.

Ok mate the parts are not sat there I have ran them for a year and like I have tried to explain before I blew the head it was 263bhp according to a rr. Im only sticking with the cams as for what advice sbd gave me last night mu intention was solid cams anyway which was listed on the orginal spec sheet to do. its all a learning curve and if the cams dont work right then ill change them if needs be the manifold was copied from the sizing of the sbd type c manifold aswell

[Gareth_C]

So if you understand tolerances are so tight WHY are you planning to run it on hydraulics and ****y cams?

how are kent bad cams, as i have just posted i was planning a solid cams but sbd reccons i dont need them yet

[Jonlem]

Once again, the advice your getting is no good, wether that is Steve Broughton ( which I am not convinced on ) or whoever.

I'm sorry but as Corsakid has said you would not build a engine like yours and fit hydraulic lifters, its going to totally destroy what chance that engine had of making any power as you will be so limited on the cam shaft choice.

Its not consructive critism because you won't even look into it, you think your way is right and I'm sorry but several people have posted on this thread for a very good reason but STILL you have to disagree with them.

As for one of the earlier comments made at me about how would I like it if it was mine, well for a start I'd be speaking to a few people if that many people thought I was doing something wrong, one person can quite easily have his wires crossed but like this case when several point out a potential mistake you should and I most certainly would look into it before proceeding with things.

I have a thread for my car, feel free to comment, it hasn't taken over 4 years and nearly 30k of my money for no reason, I wanted to do things right at whatever cost that might be.

[corsakid]

:tard: I give up

[Gareth_C]

Once again, the advice your getting is no good, wether that is Steve Broughton ( which I am not convinced on ) or whoever.

I'm sorry but as Corsakid has said you would not build a engine like yours and fit hydraulic lifters, its going to totally destroy what chance that engine had of making any power as you will be so limited on the cam shaft choice.

Its not consructive critism because you won't even look into it, you think your way is right and I'm sorry but several people have posted on this thread for a very good reason but STILL you have to disagree with them.

As for one of the earlier comments made at me about how would I like it if it was mine, well for a start I'd be speaking to a few people if that many people thought I was doing something wrong, one person can quite easily have his wires crossed but like this case when several point out a potential mistake you should and I most certainly would look into it before proceeding with things.

I have a thread for my car, feel free to comment, it hasn't taken over 4 years and nearly 30k of my money for no reason, I wanted to do things right at whatever cost that might be.

most of the stuff that is said looks to be a assistance but it the rest where it feels like cause im not saying ok what do you reccomend and can you sell me it just reads like thecars build is getting put down and ripped to bits.
cheers for sticking with it though :thumb:

[Jonlem]

I am not knocking the car, I am just telling you the engine spec is wrong and if you want to save yourself some money do it the right way once rather than keep having to change things.

It is as simple as that really, if you want to build the engine several times over then thats fine, currently that is how it looks to me and I would rather not see anyone have to do that.

[Gareth_C]

I am not knocking the car, I am just telling you the engine spec is wrong and if you want to save yourself some money do it the right way once rather than keep having to change things.

It is as simple as that really, if you want to build the engine several times over then thats fine, currently that is how it looks to me and I would rather not see anyone have to do that.

Thats fair enough and I appreiciate what your saying and ill try and be a bit more understanding but my defense I have a temper and a attiude problem and the way it read to me didnt look right so to speck but ill try and not get as ot headed :thumb:
whats with simpson manifolds then as nova rally is advertising one

[Danny s-p]

Thats fair enough and I appreiciate what your saying and ill try and be a bit more understanding but my defense I have a antemper d a attiude problem and the way it read to me didnt look right so to speck but ill try and not get as ot headed :thumb:
whats with simpson manifolds then as nova rally is advertising one
andrew andrew andrew he final add mite's it woooooop wooooop sorry that so had to be done run of to pm andrew lol

[Gareth_C]

andrew andrew andrew he final add mite's it woooooop wooooop sorry that so had to be done run of to pm andrew lol

shut up sheep y and stop copying me

[wwmnw]

shut up sheep y and stop copying me

BWAHAHAHAHAHA @ Sheepy lol:cry:lol:cry:lol

[Gareth_C]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA @ Sheepy lol:cry:lol:cry:lol

right ok

[Danny s-p]

shut up sheep y and stop copying memeh i like the saying and just been out looked at my nova i seen no GSI bumper or a gay as fook XE so get back in ya cage am not a sheep

[wwmnw]

meh i like the saying and just been out looked at my nova i seen no GSI bumper or a gay as fook XE so get back in ya cage am not a sheep

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/lostboy_014/Sheepish.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/lostboy_014/shocked-1.gif

[Gareth_C]

meh i like the saying and just been out looked at my nova i seen no GSI bumper or a gay as fook XE so get back in ya cage am not a sheep

No what you saw was a pile of mix and match bits that was bought to keep up with other people im trying to turn this thread around to be decent and consturctive lets leave it there shall we :thumb:

[Danny s-p]

Sorry Dad But I Never Got If I Doubt Flat Out Off You Like Snowdon Try To Say I Am

[Jonlem]

The Simpson manifolds by now tend to be very good indeed, my concern is the fitment as they are also custom made and a nova doesn't have buckets of room.

It would be worth asking Colin if he has had it on a nova and if the price is right it wouldn't be a bad purchase but in all honesty as the guys who map them that I know they swear by the proper BTB one which I would expect may be cheaper.

You have the makings of a awesome engine, I'd love to see it done right once and perform as it should.

Cheers for the honest reply btw ;)

[Gareth_C]

The Simpson manifolds by now tend to be very good indeed, my concern is the fitment as they are also custom made and a nova doesn't have buckets of room.

It would be worth asking Colin if he has had it on a nova and if the price is right it wouldn't be a bad purchase but in all honesty as the guys who map them that I know they swear by the proper BTB one which I would expect may be cheaper.

You have the makings of a awesome engine, I'd love to see it done right once and perform as it should.

Cheers for the honest reply btw ;)

No problem mate thats the closed anybody has or will ever receive a appology:thumb:

[Danny s-p]

No problem mate thats the closed anybody has or will ever receive a appology:thumb: all second that

[Jonlem]

:)

[Gareth_C]

:)

is there a certain size primary's and secondary i should be looking for (Ihave 13/4" to 2" to 2.5")

[Jonlem]

I can't answer that, manifold design is something that is a bit of a art and something I know nothing about, I do know from experience that 1 in particular always works.

Like many things, plenty of experts but very few actually proving that with results.

For the sake of a few quid I'd definitely look into the BTB item, its proven and not really that much money in the grand scheme of things.

[Gareth_C]

I can't answer that, manifold design is something that is a bit of a art and something I know nothing about, I do know from experience that 1 in particular always works.

Like many things, plenty of experts but very few actually proving that with results.

For the sake of a few quid I'd definitely look into the BTB item, its proven and not really that much money in the grand scheme of things.

Is there a supplier you know of or would it just be BTB direct

[Jonlem]

SBD sell them.

My advice would be to PM Steveboyslim for anything related with parts you may require as he can sort them out at a better price.

[steveboyslim]

As it happens I have a coscast head with + 2.0mm inlet and exhaust REC valves, piper double springs, steel retainers, arrow solid lifters, bronze guides, full ported (inlet and exhaust ports port bored) by roper developments piper cams, full built read to fit, £2600.

Steve

[Will F]

Plus points for how many for your friends you could mention in one post :thumb:
well If you read what I said I wasnt expecting to get said power from I currently have im not thick. thats what my ultimate goal

Eh? I cba then - I offered advice based on experience. You are just not willing to accept that we know more than you, 'cos we have been through the same thought processes.

Good luck in chasing 275 - it may happen on a dyno, but it will only happen once. The lifters will jack, snap your cams, snap your valves, munch the guides, crack all 4 pistons, snap the rods and bend the crank! ;)

[philip]

what revs was the engine making the 263bhp on hydraulics? ive just had a failure on an engine due to poorly machined steel caps and lifters jacking up....and the car was only revved to 7.5k....(it had been hammered to 8k for a few months prior to rev limit being set properly.

i wouldnt take any hydraulic over 7750 tbh 8k at a push but even then id be a bit sceptic. its like kent for some stupid reason offers a hydraulic cam to peak at 8.5k for hot rods....youll be ****ting lifters and valves if ran that cam. same with their 8v cams they sell a cam with over 13mm of lift and a spring kit...yet their springs can only handle 12.5mm lift max!


where ever its ran 260 on hydraulics is either a **** rolling road for accurate figures or you have been mega lucky. as for the head a 27mm port bored +1mm head will do 270bhp or so.

heres my xe engine:

steel rods, cp slipper pistons, arp'd mains, fly, sbs headstuds, helix, ported head, colsibro guides, double springs, arrow solids, steel caps, RED wasted valves, newman full race cams, sbd pump gear, cometic, ported/polished, tony law ex manifold, lightened/balaned, etc etc cost about £7k in parts and machining, i did all own porting, shimming etc but thats a 9k engine built by a company. and its still on early crank and wet sump! built for around a genuine 250-260bhp@ 8k
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/philbug/IMGP2536.jpg

[Gareth_C]

Eh? I cba then - I offered advice based on experience. You are just not willing to accept that we know more than you, 'cos we have been through the same thought processes.

Good luck in chasing 275 - it may happen on a dyno, but it will only happen once. The lifters will jack, snap your cams, snap your valves, munch the guides, crack all 4 pistons, snap the rods and bend the crank! ;)

Cheers will Please we move away for the digs etc i did try and reply jonlem abouyt the resons i am reacting like this and thought that was it so could you read that post then understnd where this post is coming from ;)

[Gareth_C]

what revs was the engine making the 263bhp on hydraulics? ive just had a failure on an engine due to poorly machined steel caps and lifters jacking up....and the car was only revved to 7.5k....(it had been hammered to 8k for a few months prior to rev limit being set properly.

i wouldnt take any hydraulic over 7750 tbh 8k at a push but even then id be a bit sceptic. its like kent for some stupid reason offers a hydraulic cam to peak at 8.5k for hot rods....youll be ****ting lifters and valves if ran that cam. same with their 8v cams they sell a cam with over 13mm of lift and a spring kit...yet their springs can only handle 12.5mm lift max!


where ever its ran 260 on hydraulics is either a **** rolling road for accurate figures or you have been mega lucky. as for the head a 27mm port bored +1mm head will do 270bhp or so.

heres my xe engine:

steel rods, cp slipper pistons, arp'd mains, fly, sbs headstuds, helix, ported head, colsibro guides, double springs, arrow solids, steel caps, RED wasted valves, newman full race cams, sbd pump gear, cometic, ported/polished, tony law ex manifold, lightened/balaned, etc etc cost about £7k in parts and machining, i did all own porting, shimming etc but thats a 9k engine built by a company. and its still on early crank and wet sump! built for around a genuine 250-260bhp@ 8k
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/philbug/IMGP2536.jpg

cheers philip engine looks nice the power dropped off around 7500 iirc

[Gareth_C]

As it happens I have a coscast head with + 2.0mm inlet and exhaust REC valves, piper double springs, steel retainers, arrow solid lifters, bronze guides, full ported (inlet and exhaust ports port bored) by roper developments piper cams, full built read to fit, £2600.

Steve

Can I run +2mm valves on pot pistons as another thing SBD mentioned was the cut outs werent big enough fo rthe valves :confused:

[steveboyslim]

Can I run +2mm valves on pot pistons as another thing SBD mentioned was the cut outs werent big enough fo rthe valves :confused:

The can be re-machined, increasing diameter and depth.

Steve

PS or could sort a +1.0mm valved head.