985cc Turbocharged Nova Sprint Car

[Novasport]

decking the block / skimming the head wont alter the swept volume,only the CR

:confused: Of course it will, it will decrease CC(Admittedly not by much unless it it decked severely but it only needs 24cc) and CR

[stt]

:confused: Of course it will, it will decrease CC(Admittedly not by much unless it it decked severely but it only needs 24cc) and CR
It won't!
It will affect the chamber volume but not the capacity
The capacity of an engine is bore x stroke
(well pi x bore/2 squared)
The volume of the combustion chamber only affects the cr not the cc

[MK999]

:confused: Of course it will, it will decrease CC(Admittedly not by much unless it it decked severely but it only needs 24cc) and CR

Capacity of an engine is measured by it's swept volume, not the overall volume of the swept volume+the combustion chamber/squish volume whatever you want to call it.

I.E a 2000cc engine with an 8:1 CR actually has a larger total volume than a 2000cc engine with a 10:1 CR.

Edit, and area of a circle is (Pi*D^2)/4 not /2

[mowgli]

A= pi x r2...... r =d/2.

[Ben]

A= pi x r2...... r =d/2.

isnt google ace lol

[mowgli]

i was doing this stuff long before the effing internet....

as 2 people had had a crack at it, and both were sort of right (right answer, wrong way of writing it), i thought i'd put the correct way on just to stop an argument

ps. the big trick is remembering to convert the figures into cm first.

[stt]

Edit, and area of a circle is (Pi*D^2)/4 not /2


pi x radius squared is the area of a circle
not (pi x diameter squared) / 4

[stt]

i was doing this stuff long before the effing internet....

as 2 people had had a crack at it, and both were sort of right (right answer, wrong way of writing it), i thought i'd put the correct way on just to stop an argument

ps. the big trick is remembering to convert the figures into cm first.

how was my way of writing it wrong?

i put pi x bore/2 squared!

[Lewis.]

how was my way of writing it wrong?

i put pi x bore/2 squared!

bore/2 is an extra unneccasary calculation, when you can just use the radius.

and it really wants to be pi x (r²) as pi x r ² gives an incorrect answer :thumb:

[Mike]

You lot need to get out more.....

[Andy]

You lot need to get out more.....
LOL
Just what i thought,friday night arguing about engine internals and chamber sizes,while most people are getting internally involved with women and their chambers lol

[Lewis.]

You lot need to get out more.....

We are members of the PNG, and own Nova's. of course we need to get out more lol

[novarally]

Of course I could just say forget about the up to 1400cc Class, and build the Nova into the ultimate lightweight FWD car.

Especially as I notice that this is STILL for sale...........he must have been trying to shift this for a year or more;

http://touringcarspares.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58

Only trouble is it might be just too much for the F10 'box.

[Ben]

What sort of cars would you be up against then Colin?

[novarally]

What sort of cars would you be up against then Colin?

Off the top of my head, this sort of thing;

Force SR8 (twin Hayabusa engines)
Metro 6R4 replica with alloy blocked Cosworth engine
Puma rallycross car (600bhp)
Puma Xtrac (850bhp)
Hillman Imp spaceframed with Hayabusa engine mid-mounted
Morris Minor with Lancia Delta turbo engine, 400bhp+

So it would definitely be for fun only if I decided to go down that route, it would shove me straight into the 'anything goes' Class.

[scott.parker]

Humm i say do it! would love to see what the car would be like then on a trackday, or 1/4 times!

[Danny s-p]

that engine in a nova wood be so class. but what happens say you brake it or damage the head as the old boy that done them heads don't work for swindon any more how wood you get it fixed

[novarally]

Or I am now (vaguely) considering a very high powered LET for it, again just for fun.

A really big power LET would almost certainly cost less than building a 1.0 turbo, and would offer a lot of smiles.

So I've spent the last hour or more trawling through old 'Cars For Sale' adverts to see what is (and was) around.

Something like the green TOTB Corsa that Chris S from Sheffield had would have made an ideal donor car!

It was registered as J60 OST, but I have a feeling that car got sold?

[Novasport]

What about an alloy blocked XE?

[MK999]

Duplicate.

[MK999]

pi x radius squared is the area of a circle
not (pi x diameter squared) / 4

Now put both through a calculator :thumb:

Will give the same answer.

Southie should also check this since he negged me for my oh so inaccurate info which is the staple calculation for every thermodynamics and engine lecturer at my uni as it saves a step halving the radius which reduces the chance of error!



bore/2 is an extra unneccasary calculation, when you can just use the radius.

and it really wants to be pi x (r²) as pi x r ² gives an incorrect answer :thumb:

No it doesn't, BIDMAS rules defines the order in which calculations are solved, brackets indices division multiplication addition subtraction, gives the same answer.

[novarally]

The more I sit and think about it, the more tempting it is to forget the 'up to 1400cc' Class regulations, and just bolt in an extreme power XE or LET.

I could almost certainly get the car running one of those engines at 275/300bhp+ respectively, for less money than building another 1.0 turbo unit.

I've spent some time trawling through old 'Cars For Sale' adverts on MIGWEB and the like, and something like the green Corsa LET (J60 OST) that Chris S from Sheffield had would have been an ideal donor car (sadly I believe it's all been sold now).

Great spec., and 450 or so BHP would be rather pleasant in a sub-600kg car.

[Iain]

That'd be insane in that shell lol Will it still be competitive in the higher classes then? And will the lowered/changed engine mounts that it currently has not cause an issue with a larger engine?

[Mike]

J60 used to run ten second passes all day long aswell :) that motor in your shell would be pretty damn crackers lol

[novarally]

That'd be insane in that shell lol Will it still be competitive in the higher classes then? And will the lowered/changed engine mounts that it currently has not cause an issue with a larger engine?

Not a chance of it being properly competitive, given the level of competition it would face.

It would need new engine mounts no doubt, but aside from that it would bolt in no problem. I wouldn't want to use an F28, but an F20 dog 'box would be easy to source.

[TonySR]

DO IT! I love everything about this car. The 1 litre engine is different but its just not enough. How about a supercharged 1.4?

[scott.parker]

Well if your going into the "anything goes" category, is there anything els you could/would put in from other cars/bikes for cheep money that would/could keep it competitive?

[Nova_Sean]

Why dont you just go for something under 1400cc that way you could keep it in the current class

[t45_ste]

Because the block has to be visually the same as the original engine for the car.

[novarally]

Well if your going into the "anything goes" category, is there anything els you could/would put in from other cars/bikes for cheep money that would/could keep it competitive?

Where do you draw the line?

You could bolt an engine in the front, one in the back, 4WD, turbo and supercharger on both of them.........it's endless.

And that's the problem, it is literally a bottomless pit of spending if you want to be competitive in any form of motorsport. There is simply no such thing as cheap, someone else is always willing, and able, to spend more than you can.

[mowgli]

probably your cheapest fix is to get your existing engine rebuilt, and lower the boost a tad.

[MK999]

Where do you draw the line?

You could bolt an engine in the front, one in the back, 4WD, turbo and supercharger on both of them.........it's endless.

And that's the problem, it is literally a bottomless pit of spending if you want to be competitive in any form of motorsport. There is simply no such thing as cheap, someone else is always willing, and able, to spend more than you can.

The xtrac puma is a pretty good example of that, figures for the cost if xtrac charged labour etc on the bits they did is something mad like 1.5million iirc?

[novarally]

probably your cheapest fix is to get your existing engine rebuilt, and lower the boost a tad.

Probably true, but I was only putting 18psi through it, the problem is that the bottom end was standard, and just not able to cope with the boost/revs being thrown at it.

If I want to go forward and compete on level terms with the quick guys, it definitely needs forged pistons as a minimum, and preferably steel crank and rods too.

Sticking with the up to 1400 Class is still my preferred option, but it will all boil down to cost in the end.

I'm meeting with the Parts Manager at my local Vauxhall dealer tomorrow, I'm hoping he can find out more for me about the Brazilian 1.0 OHC engine to see if that is a realistic option.

[burgo]

colin i think you should rebuild your bottom end as is and then go for a 16v head. i know this mean a new or modifying the inlet and exhaust manifolds but the gains could be worth it

[Danny s-p]

Or I am now (vaguely) considering a very high powered LET for it, again just for fun.

A really big power LET would almost certainly cost less than building a 1.0 turbo, and would offer a lot of smiles.

So I've spent the last hour or more trawling through old 'Cars For Sale' adverts to see what is (and was) around.

Something like the green TOTB Corsa that Chris S from Sheffield had would have made an ideal donor car!

It was registered as J60 OST, but I have a feeling that car got sold? the car is still owned by chris it has xe in it now till his new engine built i think well it was running one at pvs. dave dixson has his old turbo and manifold for his nova

[stt]

If you're going to stay as 1ltr turbo still, and go for a steel bottom end would it be worth while destroking a 1.3/1.4 rather than sleeveing a block so that it's a revvier lump?

[stt]

And also having a bigger bore will give you more room for bigger valve area!

[mowgli]

the 12ST has the lowest stroke of any stock gm engine. by going lower on the stroke, you would need a bespoke crank and still need forged pistons..

as the car was built using mini metro pistons, there is a really good probability that someone somewhere does forged pistons already for it, so they will cost less to obtain.

there are alread valve cutouts in the block that don't appear to affect the running

[BRoadGhost]

I think you should keep it within the 1.0L bracket - It's part of what makes this car unique.

Hold out for the brazilian lump then go to town on it.

[Ben]

I agree tbh, shame you cant write the rest of the season off then spend all year/winter soucring the parts and rebuilding.

The car is/was obviously very competitive in that class as it won it a few times iirc!

[novarally]

I agree tbh, shame you cant write the rest of the season off then spend all year/winter soucring the parts and rebuilding.

The car is/was obviously very competitive in that class as it won it a few times iirc!

To be fair I could write the season off now and concentrate on the rebuild, I'd just rather be out there racing.

The car was competitive, of that there's no doubt. It used to win regularly even with 160-odd BHP.

Trouble is in the few years since then, things have moved on dramatically with the Minis, the best of which are making 200-ish BHP.

I have no doubt at all it can win again, but reliability is obviously the priority.

[novarally]

as the car was built using mini metro pistons, there is a really good probability that someone somewhere does forged pistons already for it, so they will cost less to obtain

Correct, they are apparently Metro Van pistons, although why the van would have had a different piston to a normal hatchback I'm not sure (lower compression ratio?).

I've spoken to John at Cambridge Motorsport who supplies custom forged pistons, and he can get me a set made to my requirements for around £500.

[Lewis.]

I think you would be best of sticking in the up to 1400 class, as then you can still be competitive.

and for the cost of a mental LET, i'm sure you could rebuild your engine with a steel bottom end and forged pistons. and if the brazilian engine is a goer, then a steel bottom end, forged pistons and a rather large turbo would be mental! and still cheaper i'd guess then an LET.

[novarally]

I think you would be best of sticking in the up to 1400 class, as then you can still be competitive.

and for the cost of a mental LET, i'm sure you could rebuild your engine with a steel bottom end and forged pistons. and if the brazilian engine is a goer, then a steel bottom end, forged pistons and a rather large turbo would be mental! and still cheaper i'd guess then an LET.

If I was going for an LET (or XE) I'd just buy a complete car, and by selling off all the other bits I don't need, it would end up being a cheaper engine.

[Lewis.]

ah good idea, on something with lots of fancy stuff you could probably make most of your money back.

but would an LET be competitive in the unlimited class?

[Pancho]

this thing deserves a 600bhp let.

[stt]

Correct, they are apparently Metro Van pistons, although why the van would have had a different piston to a normal hatchback I'm not sure (lower compression ratio?).

I've spoken to John at Cambridge Motorsport who supplies custom forged pistons, and he can get me a set made to my requirements for around £500.

are you still considering 16v head too?
have you looked into a custom crank etc, as it might be worth considering a destroked rather than a debored at this stage to give you more area for valves and a lot less strain on the bottom end too, the slightly less piston speed will mean less chamber fill but that can be overcome by boost!

[Southie]

Colin what's the cheapest option? A 1.0 rebuild or a revised 1.2/1.3 rebuild??

Personally love the fact this is a unique engine build and feel that if you took that away then it wouldn't be as exciting for you and you'd end up breaking or selling on eBay IMO.

[burgo]

16v head slips straight on a 12st block ;)

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k573/burgo90/SAM_0259.jpg

[novarally]

Colin what's the cheapest option? A 1.0 rebuild or a revised 1.2/1.3 rebuild??

Personally love the fact this is a unique engine build and feel that if you took that away then it wouldn't be as exciting for you and you'd end up breaking or selling on eBay IMO.

This is half the problem at the moment, I've got no quotes to work from, hopefully BTEC will sort some numbers out for me soon. The possibility of destroking is certainly something I will discuss with them, I'm outside my experience zone with this level of technical stuff.

Yes, I would like to go 16v, but only if there will be a significant power advantage. I'm sure the 16v head will weigh a fair bit more, plus it would need new inlet and exhaust manifolds of course.

I have a couple of 16v heads and a complete 1400 16v engine. In fact the head from this one I've got would look rather good;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/2901218-3.jpg

[novarally]

this thing deserves a 600bhp let.

It is tempting. Not many people have 1000 bhp per tonne......

[stt]

An oversquare engine allows for more and larger valves in the head of the cylinder, lower friction losses (due to the reduced distance travelled during each engine rotation) and lower crank stress (due to the lower peak piston speed relative to engine speed). Because these characteristics favor higher engine speeds, oversquare engines are often tuned to develop peak torque at a relatively high speed.

The reduced stroke length allows for a shorter cylinder and sometimes a shorter connecting rod, generally making oversquare engines less tall than undersquare engines of similar engine displacement but wider and longer (for engines with vertical cylinder axes).

By changing the crankshaft and modifying the connecting rod(s), piston(s) and/or engine block an engine can be "de-stroked". This reduces the displacement and consequently the torque of the engine, but can allow it to run at higher speeds and in fact develop greater peak power.

Oversquare engine examples

Oversquare engines are extremely common, including both Chevrolet and Ford small block V8s. Most Boxer (horizontally-opposed) engines (such as those built by Volkswagen, Porsche, and Subaru) feature oversquare designs since any increase in stroke length would result in twice the increase in overall engine size.

This is particularly crucial in Subaru's front-engine layout, where the steering angle of the front wheels is limited largely by the size of the engine. Although oversquare engines have a reputation for being high-strung, low-torque machines, the Subaru EJ engine develops peak torque at speeds as low as 3200 RPM.

Extreme examples of oversquare engine designs are found in Formula One race cars, whose rules tightly limit displacement and thereby require that power be achieved through high engine speeds. Stroke ratios of 2.5:1 are typical, with engines capable of 19,000 RPM.[citation needed]

Stolen from wikipedia as I can't be arsed to type it out from my books but it gives you the general plus points!

[novarally]

Small update......the engine is being put back together with a set of new pistons, along with shells, oil pump and Total Seal piston rings. The sump is also being modified to hold a bit more oil, as oil pressure seemed to be a problem with the higher level of cornering force that the car can now generate.

I don't have the money at this time to opt for a 'proper' engine build, so the plan is to run it with slightly less boost and/or revs, and hopefully it will last out this racing season, and allow me to fine tune the rest of the car.

Longer term I intend to get another engine built, using steel crank, steel rods and forged pistons. This may well take the form of a de-stroked 1300/1400 (possibly 16v), but I need to discuss this with experts to decide the best way forward and check out the likely costings.

[Edd]

Did your local parts chap give you any info on getting a 1.0L engine from brazil ?

[novarally]

Did your local parts chap give you any info on getting a 1.0L engine from brazil ?

I've drawn a complete blank on that one. They were very helpful, but tell me that GM Europe have no connection to GM Americas, so they can't access the database to even view the parts, let alone order them.

He gave me a contact name and number at a company called 'Vaux-Pro', who supply brand new crate engines to the Vauxhall Dealer Network, but when I spoke to them they were also unable to assist with sourcing stuff outside Europe.

So I think that option is out of the running, plus the more I think about it the more I think the engine block is unlikely be identical to a Nova (e.g. it might have lug mounts cast into it for a PAS pump).

[fearless]

Have you considered using this system to help your oil pressure issues

http://www.accusump.com/


I know a few rally boys who use it - Martin Bowyer (Bowyer Developments) has spec'ed it for the Engine for our Corsa S1600


Its basically a pressurised oil tank - that release's oil if the pressure drops

Might be worth looking into



Dave

[novarally]

Have you considered using this system to help your oil pressure issues

http://www.accusump.com/


Dave

Hi Dave.

I am aware of those systems, and they seem to work well.

If I go the whole way with the engine as I hope, I will probably bite the bullet and have a proper dry sump system on it.

[stt]

I cant wait to see the next incarnation of this engine,
I love the development of this car, a short stroke 9500rpm screamer coming soon then?????

[novarally]

I cant wait to see the next incarnation of this engine,
I love the development of this car, a short stroke 9500rpm screamer coming soon then?????

The sooner people buy up all my stock of Nova spares and race/rally bits, the sooner you will see a new engine in it............

[Kev Turbo]

So glad your sticking with the 1.0 engine Colin,

The big block options would really have spoilt the car IMO,

Glad you can finish the season and hopefully get some good results from the car!

[calibra-keith]

im glad your sticking with it Colin, it would of had to of been that or a crazy powered lump, i guess you wont have a lot of time but maybe a big forum/ebay/PH sell off ?

[OllieKing]

Small Blocks are the future! and just think of all the extra weight of a big block, power gains would be healthy although you would lose alot of speed in the corners!

[novarally]

No news yet on the engine rebuild, so my next hillclimb event, the next round of the Championship at Gurston Down on the 17th July is looking very doubtful.

I'd made arrangements to borrow a 550bhp Escort Cosworth from a friend of mine to do the event, but unfortunately he was made an offer he couldn't refuse for the engine, so that has fallen through!

So unless I can beg, borrow or buy a suitable car in the meantime, it looks like I will be a spectator once again.

For a long while I've been on the hunt for some 15" split rim wheels to use on the front of the Nova, but had no success, so today I bought a complete car, with wheels thrown in!;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-14.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-49.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-46.jpg

In actual fact it was 2 cars, as I had to buy another 5 GT Turbo which came with it..........

How much more late 80's retro can you get than a Dimma 5?

[Mike]

Awesome!! I always wanted the Dimma kit for mine when I had one!!

If didnt have this bag of **** Corsa Id snatch your hand off for that 5!

[Ben]

Looks like it hasn't moved since the 80's!

[Southie]

How light are the alloys though Colin? Always loved those kits back in the day.

[zeifer33]

:eek: what happend with the bumpers?

[Southie]

It's that fast, they fell off lol

[novarally]

:eek: what happend with the bumpers?

The bumpers are in the boot of the other R5 that I got.

[novarally]

How light are the alloys though Colin?

I'll find out shortly, just about to go and take one of the tyres off. I have a feeling they're not going to be as lightweight as I'd like!

[Cle]

Love the dimma r5's look the part, I was looking at a Areg 11000 miles from new turbo 2 the other day at my mates garage they are a lovly bit of kit :)

[MK1_Ben]

Love the dimma r5's look the part, I was looking at a Areg 11000 miles from new turbo 2 the other day at my mates garage they are a lovly bit of kit :)

Until the head gasket goes pop ;)

A friend with one reckons they're as reliable as any car though if they have the uprated gasket and are warmed up properly :)

[Mike]

A friend with one reckons they're as reliable as any car though if they have the uprated gasket and are warmed up properly :)

^This is true

[novarally]

Love the dimma r5's look the part, I was looking at a Areg 11000 miles from new turbo 2 the other day at my mates garage they are a lovly bit of kit :)

I'm absolutely gutted, I had the chance yesterday to buy a lovely Turbo 2 in need of some restoration, with a Tour de Corse gearbox/LSD in it for £9k, and just before I said 'yes', someone had got there before me with a deposit.

[Cle]

I'm absolutely gutted, I had the chance yesterday to buy a lovely Turbo 2 in need of some restoration, with a Tour de Corse gearbox/LSD in it for £9k, and just before I said 'yes', someone had got there before me with a deposit.

I one i was looking at is for sale but with a huge price tag lol it has original back tires fronts got changed as they were perished apart from the front tires and brake pads and disc's is completely original and mint condition.

[novarally]

I one i was looking at is for sale but with a huge price tag lol it has original back tires fronts got changed as they were perished apart from the front tires and brake pads and disc's is completely original and mint condition.

How huge a price tag, out of idle curiosity?

There's been one advertised for a long while at a shade over £30k.

[mowgli]

i saw one a good few years back on a driveway and the lad said it had been a max power project car & had £85k spent on it....he'd bought it with a std engine and most of the 'expensive' stuff taken off.....he got upset when i told him i didn't think he'd got a good deal.

[craig green]

News about the old engine makes me a bit sad, but so long as something will replace it eh?

heres a Dimma 5 in better shape, Image wheels again! 3 spokes.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/turbocraig/HOT%20METAL/r5gttwidearch.jpg

[Mike]

^nommy yummy.

I used to work with a bird whos dad owns Image alloy wheels.

[mowgli]

did she look after the guide dog?

[Connor]

Ahhh i loooove dimma r5's. Were one of my favourite cars back in t'day

[pie]

my old one :)

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179607_1547502534592_1445917278_31156936_4705935_n .jpg

[ryansnova]

thats fooking cool :cool:

[zeifer33]

How much power?

[Cle]

How huge a price tag, out of idle curiosity?

There's been one advertised for a long while at a shade over £30k.

bang on lol £30k

[rbsmontemor]

Colin, I think I can help you with the brazillian parts (coz I'm here in Brazil)

I don't know if you sourced everything you need, but here we go with some info:

Today the 1.0L sohc used here on Corsa B, Corsa C, etc have 79HP when burning ethanol, and little less (around 75HP) with gas. They are around 12.4:1 CR

The 1.4L version has 105HP on ethanol, 12.4 CR and survives our crappy gas heheh. Very very well programmed ECU and a lot of these little helpful detonation sensors :d

The hardpoints (is ok? I'm talking about the engine mounting points) are the same. We had here the same Corsa B GSI you had there (it was imported to Brazil) and the engine block still the same till today.

The head is different since 2005. Smaller hydraulic lifters, rollers on the carriers (I don't know if its right, its the part that is in contact with the camshaft) and sodium exaust valves.

Well, sorry about my English..it's rubbish I know.

Montemor.

Ah, some pics:

1.0 16v:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3237618088_414d520850_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3237618088/)
1.016.v (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3237618088/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3237618094_5300ef24d0_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3237618094/)
1.0 16v (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3237618094/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr





1.4 8v 105HP head
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/3212320607_6f9e9104f0_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3212320607/)
camara do cabeçote 1.4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3212320607/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3431/3209384127_cb07ae1b2e_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3209384127/)
cabeçote motor econoflex 1.4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3209384127/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4416830843_e56800bbea_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackyo/4416830843/)
Cabeçote do Econo.Flex (http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackyo/4416830843/) por blackyo (http://www.flickr.com/people/blackyo/), no Flickr



1.0L block with 1.8L gasket
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3294428788_88f8ed109c_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3294428788/)
bloco 1.0 com junta do motor 1.8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3294428788/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr

1.0L 8v 79HP
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3351/3209379421_d193d8e8b3_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3209379421/)
pistão 1.0 flex (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gmfamilia_1/3209379421/) por gm FAMILIA 1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gmfamilia_1/), no Flickr

[novarally]

Colin, I think I can help you with the brazillian parts (coz I'm here in Brazil)

I don't know if you sourced everything you need, but here we go with some info:

Today the 1.0L sohc used here on Corsa B, Corsa C, etc have 79HP when burning ethanol, and little less (around 75HP) with gas. They are around 12.4:1 CR

The 1.4L version has 105HP on ethanol, 12.4 CR and survives our crappy gas heheh. Very very well programmed ECU and a lot of these little helpful detonation sensors :d

The hardpoints (is ok? I'm talking about the engine mounting points) are the same. We had here the same Corsa B GSI you had there (it was imported to Brazil) and the engine block still the same till today.

The head is different since 2005. Smaller hydraulic lifters, rollers on the carriers (I don't know if its right, its the part that is in contact with the camshaft) and sodium exaust valves.

Well, sorry about my English..it's rubbish I know.

Montemor.



Hi Montemor, and thank you so much for your information. Do not worry, your English is excellent.

I'd been struggling to find someone in Brazil with technical knowledge, and who could speak English, I'm pleased you've stepped forward for the job!

There are lots of questions I have for now;

1. Can you confirm if the 1.0 block has the casting for the PAS (power steering) pump, the same as the Corsa B GSi would have had?

2. I'm unsure about the power/torque differences between the 1.0 8v and 1.0 16v engines, can you confirm?

3. As this will be the basis of a turbocharged racing engine, the 2005-on head with sodium filled exhaust valves sounds interesting! Was that 2005 change done to both the 8v and 16v heads?

4. Do you have any experience of turbocharging these engines? Or know anybody who has done this?

5. Are these engines easily available as secondhand units in Brazil? And what sort of prices do they sell for?

That's all for now, but I'm sure to think of more questions for you soon!

Thanks again for your help.

Colin

[rbsmontemor]

Hi Montemor, and thank you so much for your information. Do not worry, your English is excellent.

I'd been struggling to find someone in Brazil with technical knowledge, and who could speak English, I'm pleased you've stepped forward for the job!

There are lots of questions I have for now;

1. Can you confirm if the 1.0 block has the casting for the PAS (power steering) pump, the same as the Corsa B GSi would have had?

2. I'm unsure about the power/torque differences between the 1.0 8v and 1.0 16v engines, can you confirm?

3. As this will be the basis of a turbocharged racing engine, the 2005-on head with sodium filled exhaust valves sounds interesting! Was that 2005 change done to both the 8v and 16v heads?

4. Do you have any experience of turbocharging these engines? Or know anybody who has done this?

5. Are these engines easily available as secondhand units in Brazil? And what sort of prices do they sell for?

That's all for now, but I'm sure to think of more questions for you soon!

Thanks again for your help.

Colin

1. Take a look if this is what you talking about:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3330/3209314841_f4a4308cb7.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V_la5WHRKAE/TeohbhqLZBI/AAAAAAAADY4/rq01TTmSYFk/s400/BLOCO%2BMOTOR%2BCORSA%2B10%2BEFI%2BMPFI%2BC%2BPIST OES%2BANEIS.JPG

It's the "triangle" with these 3 threaded holes?


2. This 1.0 16v engine is old here in Brazil, it was made around 1997 and had 68HP, only gas, low compression engine.
The actual 1.0 8v engine is a "VHC" engine (Very high compression), with plastic intake manifold (better contruction form, better flow etc..) and has 79HP with ethanol.

Thats the gaph for 1997 gas engines, 1.0 8v and 1.0 16v

http://bestcars.uol.com.br/carros/gm/corsa-1000-16v-curva.gif

And thats the 79HP engine without cat:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3195928050_1c37be6285_o.jpg





3. Since around 2000 the only car that came with these Smallblock 16v is the Meriva. And only 1.8L. This 1.8L engine is the same you had there.

Today all smallblock engines are sohc "VHC" engines.






4. I own a Corsa C 1.4L VHC (EconoFlex) with 105HP. It was turbo some time ago but as a student at night and working at day I have no time to mess around with it.

79HP 1.0L with a K14 turbo @ 0.8 bar produces around 140HP, stock internals, plastic intake manifold
My car (1.4L) with a K16 @ 1.0 bar results in 223 HP, stock internals, plastic intake manifold

There are a lot of these turbo'ed engines here.

1.0L 79HP stock internals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aABlZX1vurw

1.0L old head (same as yours) 245HP, crappy ECU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Bg06hnyHk


And my car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42ay6GCt18





5. There are a lot of these engines here. Used, new...I think the problem is to find a way to send them to you. We have some rigid laws about selling automotive parts to other contries.


My 2c:

I would keep the 1.2L crank. Our 1.0L engines has no torque at all and I think you gonna lost driveability with 1.0L crank
I think you could use your bottom and the brazillian 1.4L head, as it has a lot more potential for power. I don't have pictures but I can tell you, the newer head ducts are a lot larger than the old head.
The only problem is that this new head uses a different camshaft, because the multiplying factor is different on these heads.

Feel free to ask anything else :thumb:

Montemor.

[Southie]

At last Colin you've the Brazilian contact you needed, best of luck in sorting your new build looks like it's about to become a lot easier :)

[mk1nova_rich]

Wow, thats a miracle lol I've given him some well earned rep for the above posts :thumb:

[craig green]

Spooky how he happened accross this discussion at precisely the right time.

Welcome btw Montemor. I'd like to see any info you have on the K14 & K16 turbo's & manifolds used on these small block engines.

[rbsmontemor]

Spooky how he happened accross this discussion at precisely the right time.

Welcome btw Montemor. I'd like to see any info you have on the K14 & K16 turbo's & manifolds used on these small block engines.

Thanks :)

We have here only the diesel versions of these turbochargers. They are a little different talking about the power output. This K16 is nice to a little over 300HP and is available with 3 different hot housings, with or without reflow (I don't know how you call the "lip" on the cold housing intake)

These turbos are available with titanium or aluminium rotors.

We have some cast iron manifolds available to this engine, with variations to fit all cars that came with the engines. They are T3 or T2 flange.

That's the one used on my car (T3 flange)
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5398/dsc00191ea.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/dsc00191ea.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

My K16 (Hot housing size 5, the smallest, as they at BorgWarner names. They do not inform the A/R)
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5015/dsc00195.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/dsc00195.jpg/)http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7250/dsc06330t.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/704/dsc06330t.jpg/)http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7797/dsc06322ap.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/686/dsc06322ap.jpg/)

Some other manifolds to this engine:

http://img2.mlstatic.com/s_MLB_v_O_f_164439244_3256.jpg
http://www.spaturbo.com.br/joomla/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/29ded81299ac72a2fb2ebf4c0c739b76.jpg

[rbsmontemor]

Some diesel K16 videos:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrrytDyin5o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8UNwpHfD4A

Montemor.

[rbsmontemor]

Cold housing with the "lip" (we call over here as "Reflow")


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dziAyVG_9TU

[Ben]

What a guy, I've been hoping a blonde porn star with massive tits and atastefor 6ft6 Bristolians who live in Belgium and called Ben, well colins wish came true!

[pikey1986]

/\ lol

[mowgli]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ben again.

[burgo]

holy **** montemor, so serious awesome info, any chance of pics of the heads? could even start your own question and answers thread to be honest

[Mike]

Does nobody recognise those manifolds......

Couple of years ago, bloke selling turbo kits for GM 8v motors on eBay from Europe....

[novarally]

Got my Nova back last Friday, after it was fitted with 4 new pistons, rings, shells, oil and water pump, and also had the sump modified to carry an extra litre of oil and more baffling as I was suffering some surge problems.

Race day on Sunday; Ran it up to temperature in the paddock, warmed the tyres up just before the start line and all sounded well. Pulled up to the start line only to hear and feel a big misfire........

Misfired it's way all up the hill.

Pulled the plugs out and No.3 no longer had a gap, clearly it had been hit by something. And a compression test found Zero compression on No.3.

So now it's gone back to the engine builder once again, and I'm waiting for a phone call to find out what's gone wrong.

It's not been a good season so far!

I'm now pushing ahead my longer term plans to build a completely new engine (see my thread in 'Mechanical').

Once I get the cash together I'm going to commission a 1000cc short-stroke all steel turbocharged engine, based on a 1600cc 16v motor, possibly using a Corsa VXR head.

[jonn]

hard luck with the engine, could a broken valve have caused the problem? were they standard or forged pistons?

[novarally]

hard luck with the engine, could a broken valve have caused the problem? were they standard or forged pistons?

As far as I can think, it's got to be either a broken valve, a broken piston ring or a piece of the piston has come off. Apparently there is no way that the piston could have touched the spark plug as the plugs are short-reach ones, and sit into a machined recess in the head.

They were standard pistons.

As soon as I get the phone call from the engine builder, I will post up more info!

[novarally]

Today I am questioning the sanity of persevering with the Nova......it's been nothing but trouble this season, and has cost me an arm and 2 legs.

And the reason for the questions is this;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/009-28.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/010-27.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/011-23.jpg

I've bought this Westfield, complete with a very nice trailer and a lot of spares, for a fraction of what the Nova has cost me to date.

Regular readers will know I've had Westfields before, and there's no doubt they are amazing value for money, but best of all great fun, which is after all the whole reason for playing with cars.

[istf]

Aaah, a kitcar! I love it!

[calibra-keith]

competitive or just for fun ? or will you use this and keep the nova to one side for another time ?

[novarally]

competitive or just for fun ? or will you use this and keep the nova to one side for another time ?

Depends if the Nova is repaired in time. I have a hillclimb booked in for the end of August, if the Nova isn't ready, or I'm not confident in it, then I shall be using the Westfield.

I just bought the Westfield as it was too much of a bargain to resist!

[BRoadGhost]

You want a smaller steering wheel on that :(

[novarally]

You want a smaller steering wheel on that :(

It's a bit of a handful with that wheel, I've been having fun re-learning RWD on the lawn today......good job it's nice and dry.

[scott.parker]

Looks amazing mate,i say either break the nova/sell it on, or put it to one side, as I'm sure this will be far more competitive then the nova?

You have too much money to! lol

[Edd]

Be a real shame to see that nova broken for spares :(

Put it to one side if your fed up with it IMO

[novarally]

You have too much money to! lol

Work roughly 60 hours a week, and have done since I was 18, don't drink, don't smoke, don't go out, don't have children, not married.......these are the 'sacrifices' for being able to afford toys.

[paul james]

I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the Nova just yet. You have put a lot of effort into it already, and you clearly have a Nova obsession. I imagine a Westfield can be a big money pit too if you let it be.

[novarally]

I wouldn't be too quick to ditch the Nova just yet. You have put a lot of effort into it already, and you clearly have a Nova obsession. I imagine a Westfield can be a big money pit too if you let it be.

Certainly no plans to stop racing the Nova yet, I have unfinished business with it.

All racing cars are money pits, fact. And I have never known when to say 'no' to developing them further.....

[The Simps]

Are you still racing the escort cossie aswell Colin or has that been sold now?

[Lewis.]

shame to hear about the nova again, hopefully not to expensive to right. westy looks like fun too :)

[novarally]

Are you still racing the escort cossie aswell Colin or has that been sold now?

I sold the Escort early in 2010.

Used some of the money to buy a mental Westfield SBD Duratec, but then sold that. And most of the money has since been blown on the Nova!

[MK999]

Today I am questioning the sanity of persevering with the Nova......it's been nothing but trouble this season, and has cost me an arm and 2 legs.

And the reason for the questions is this;

I've bought this Westfield, complete with a very nice trailer and a lot of spares, for a fraction of what the Nova has cost me to date.

Regular readers will know I've had Westfields before, and there's no doubt they are amazing value for money, but best of all great fun, which is after all the whole reason for playing with cars.

SE2, quite early? Looks identical to one we have in for an engine rebuild atm.

[novarally]

SE2, quite early? Looks identical to one we have in for an engine rebuild atm.

It's a 1992 one, I'm not familiar with the model codes.

[mowgli]

It's a 1992 one, I'm not familiar with the model codes.

there are 2 basic types of westfield....

the ones that were an absolute ripoff of the caterham, and the ones they started making after caterham sued their arses off...

simples.....

[MK999]

It's a 1992 one, I'm not familiar with the model codes.

Looks the same as the one we have, seem decent little machines, quite agricultural still though really, I was quite surprised at certain features.

And Westfield make a few cars, and about 7 or 8 variations of the SE, which is now as you say the SE2.

[rbsmontemor]

Sorry about your engine.

Don't give up, I need to see some videos of it revving 10k rpm with that 16v head :)

[novarally]

Well, as if things couldn't get any more complicated in my life, I have just had a phone call from BTEC Racing to say that my Nova is ready for collection, with the newly re-rebuilt engine apparently running perfectly again.

However, the good news was tempered by the rather unwelcome disclosure from BTEC that they have discovered a problem with their rolling road, and that the 220bhp which I was claimed to have at the beginning of this season was actually 170bhp..........

At the time it seemed like a phenomenal jump from the 165-odd horses that I had previously, just from fitting a new turbo, but of course you want to believe that these things are true.

The one consolation is that it proves why I was finding it impossible to keep up with the KAD engine Mini which has 195bhp!

Seems that their rolling road was being woefully optimistic, leading to some rather disgruntled owners no doubt.

[calibra-keith]

a big difference there colin i would be rather peed off at been that far out and all that work/money, you still planning on the 16v setup ? i know you said on another thread you got head and inlet (and i guess it was you who stole my vxr turbo/inlet off the bay lol)

[Dayle_]

Well, as if things couldn't get any more complicated in my life, I have just had a phone call from BTEC Racing to say that my Nova is ready for collection, with the newly re-rebuilt engine apparently running perfectly again.

However, the good news was tempered by the rather unwelcome disclosure from BTEC that they have discovered a problem with their rolling road, and that the 220bhp which I was claimed to have at the beginning of this season was actually 170bhp..........

At the time it seemed like a phenomenal jump from the 165-odd horses that I had previously, just from fitting a new turbo, but of course you want to believe that these things are true.

The one consolation is that it proves why I was finding it impossible to keep up with the KAD engine Mini which has 195bhp!

Seems that their rolling road was being woefully optimistic, leading to some rather disgruntled owners no doubt.

Did you not find that you were being quicker though due to psychological affect of thinking it had more power?

[novarally]

Did you not find that you were being quicker though due to psychological affect of thinking it had more power?

Hard to say for certain, as there had been a lot of other changes to the car at the same time!

[novarally]

a big difference there colin i would be rather peed off at been that far out and all that work/money, you still planning on the 16v setup ? i know you said on another thread you got head and inlet (and i guess it was you who stole my vxr turbo/inlet off the bay lol)

Everything is up in the air right now Keith, and all plans are on hold.

My Wife and I are separating, which means the house is going up for sale. This puts a very big question mark over whether I will be racing in future, and indeed where I will be living.

What I do know is that it leaves me with an absolutely enormous collection of car-related stuff that I am going to have to get cleared before I can move forward.

[calibra-keith]

sorry to ear that colin cant be good but im sure you will sort something out ?, aslong as you dont end up broke and on your ass like i did and you have plenty to keep you busy.

[mk1nova_rich]

Sad to hear things are coming to a bit of a standstill Colin :( hope things move forward as smoothly as possible for you

[novarally]

i know you said on another thread you got head and inlet (and i guess it was you who stole my vxr turbo/inlet off the bay lol)

The Corsa VXR head and inlet arrived with me today;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-37.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-33.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/008-30.jpg


All looks in good shape, it's just a shame that due to personal circumstances it's unlikely that the 16v turbo engine plans will ever be fulfilled.

Keith (or anyone else interested) - the VXR head is available for sale!

[chrisnovaturbo]

how much ?

[novarally]

how much ?

E-mail me please!!!

[novarally]

Just got my Nova back after the engine rebuild;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-16.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-49.jpg

It's had a new set of rockers, new valves and guides, new valve springs.

And as you can see it also now has a new vernier pulley, and a stud/nut conversion in place of the normal head bolts.

All seems to be running well, but the proof will be when I use it in anger at the end of the month.

I also got hold of a rather nice looking 'insert' that sits inside the cambelt to stop any foreign bodies getting in there (Swindon used to make a similar thing for the XE engine in the Supertourers);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-43.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-52.jpg

Unfortunately it won't be easily fitted to my engine, as I have a crank sensor in the way! It's also a bit on the heavy side being machined out of aluminium, so I think if I pursue this one it will have to be moulded up in plastic.

[scott.parker]

Nice update Colin, i do hope you get to finish the car, and it see's some use, are you going to Prescott hill climb for retro rides day on the 21st this month, unlimited runs up the hill for £20, i might take the xe for a go.

Scott

[novarally]

Nice update Colin, i do hope you get to finish the car, and it see's some use, are you going to Prescott hill climb for retro rides day on the 21st this month, unlimited runs up the hill for £20, i might take the xe for a go.

Scott

Hi Scott.

No, Prescott is a bit too much of a trek for me as I have limited time this coming weekend.

But I am planning to take the Nova to Santa Pod RWYB on Sunday 21st August, just to check that all is well with the engine.

I'm racing at Gurston Down on 27th/28th August, so I need to be happy that it's working properly again.

[scott.parker]

You might be better coming to Stratford to Shakespeare raceway? closer, cheaper for runs etc.. IF it's on?

[novarally]

You might be better coming to Stratford to Shakespeare raceway? closer, cheaper for runs etc.. IF it's on?

Santa Pod is 77 miles from me, Shakespeare Raceway is 121 miles!

[boffer8]

hi colin, how did you test runs go? also will you be competing on the Loton Park hillclimb in september? My grandad had got some MSA hospitality tickets so may be going, but also its the Trackrod rally that weekend so not sure yet :s

[novarally]

hi colin, how did you test runs go? also will you be competing on the Loton Park hillclimb in september? My grandad had got some MSA hospitality tickets so may be going, but also its the Trackrod rally that weekend so not sure yet :s

Spent most of the day at Santa Pod, and only managed to get 2 runs in as it was so busy. Very disappointing.

Best I did was a 14.1 at 99mph.

There's certainly a 13s run in the car as my launches were absolutely awful on the day. But at least it proved that the engine was working OK (although it sounds very rattly with the solid lifters in it, which I'm a little concerned about).

I was at Gurston Down last Saturday/Sunday;

http://gurstondown.org/latest.htm

Came home with a trophy for Second in Class, and a new personal best time, so it was a good weekend.

I haven't got an entry for Loton sadly, it's somewhere I really want to go to as everyone loves it.

[MK999]

Solid lifters should be reasonably quiet if the clearances are correct, in fact I know of an engine builder that runs about half a mm clearance on really lairy cams and says thats silent. Is it still on the same pistons? Forged pistons tend to make a slightly rattly sound when cold as they expand more than cast, so run bigger clearances.

[novarally]

Solid lifters should be reasonably quiet if the clearances are correct, in fact I know of an engine builder that runs about half a mm clearance on really lairy cams and says thats silent. Is it still on the same pistons? Forged pistons tend to make a slightly rattly sound when cold as they expand more than cast, so run bigger clearances.

It's still using a standard type non-forged piston.

[MK999]

Hmm, solids will be a touch noisier, as they're not working on a big gob of relatively soft oil, but I wouldn't call it rattly. Hard to say though, as what you call rattly some might call silent lol

[toymex]

Colin are they Kent type solid lifters ,because as i have mentioned before mine used to adjust themself after some hard driving ,so much so that it used to run on 3 cylinders so we adjusted them and put a drop of weld on them to keep them correct, they were spot on then and not really noisy at all

[novarally]

Colin are they Kent type solid lifters ,because as i have mentioned before mine used to adjust themself after some hard driving ,so much so that it used to run on 3 cylinders so we adjusted them and put a drop of weld on them to keep them correct, they were spot on then and not really noisy at all

No, we didn't go with the Kent ones in the end, the engine is using hydraulic lifters which have been adapted to make them solid, and then shimmed accordingly.

[novarally]

I was going to fit my rear diffuser today, but the one I got hold of is too wide really, and as you can see would need to be cut to fit around the mountings for my rear anti-roll bar.......which rather defeats the idea of a diffuser;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-37.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-45.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-18.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-51.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-54.jpg

So I shall have to find a narrower one now. Shame as otherwise it would be a perfect fit.

Picked up a bargain set of Compomotive CXR wheels last week, which will now be my wet weather ones;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-38.jpg

[novarally]

I really like the way these wheels look, and they should also fit in well with my long term plans for the change of colour scheme.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-19.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-55.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-52.jpg

Bad news recently was that the scrutineer checking my car over at the last race meeting pointed out that my polycarbonate windows are too thin......I deliberately made them in 2mm plastic to save weight, but I failed to notice in the regulations that they have to be minimum 4mm. My own fault for being impetuous, so now I've had to fork out for a new set of 4mm ones, which I've had to get rushed through manufacture as I'm racing again on the 11th September!

I've taken the opportunity to order some with NACA ducts fitted into the rear quarter windows, as one day I'd like to mount the radiator in the rear of the car, so this will allow me to duct cold air down to it.

Photos to follow when the windows arrive.......

If you're a regular reader of this thread, you will recall I bought a Renault 5 GT Turbo just to get the 15" Image split rims from it, which was all in vain as they weighed just as heavily as the Compomotive MO and Dymag wheels I've been using on the front of the car.

Now after much searching, I have tracked down a set of Desmond Regamasters, 15" diameter and in 4 x 100mm PCD, which I am told weigh in at 3.9kg each (about half the weight of an MO).

I'm off to Norfolk to collect them in a while. I just hope they fit OK!

[calibra-keith]

i dont seem to be getting update emails from any threads, loving the wheels and diffuser Colin, shame you may not use it but must be something you can do ? , i need to go on a buying spree some time soon.

[Jonlem]

Looking good Colin. I mat be interested in the diffuser, I'd need some measurements though as it may catch on the arb and as you say not much point using one if you have to cut it up !

Shame they picked up on the windows, I guess that was minimal weight saving but it does all count.

Hope the wheels work out ok for you.

[Southie]

How light are the Venoms, errr sorry the comps and what are they originally designed for? Suit it somehow.

When this getting repainted then Colin?

[novarally]

Looking good Colin. I mat be interested in the diffuser, I'd need some measurements though as it may catch on the arb and as you say not much point using one if you have to cut it up !

Shame they picked up on the windows, I guess that was minimal weight saving but it does all count.

Hope the wheels work out ok for you.

James.

I will measure up the diffuser when I get a chance, but feel free to chase me up if I forget!!

The Regamaster wheels fit a treat, and certainly feel VERY light (even with the tyres on).

I'll get my slicks fitted on Monday, so that will give me a chance to weight them without the tyre.

[novarally]

How light are the Venoms, errr sorry the comps and what are they originally designed for? Suit it somehow.

When this getting repainted then Colin?

I'll get my corner weight scales back tomorrow, so I can weight the Comp CXR's properly. At a guesstimate I'd say they are maybe 4kg.

They were fitted on a Jedi single seater before (they use Mini PCD on those).

A good friend of mine is having a spray booth/oven installed at his workshop down the road, so the plan is to get mine stripped and in there over Winter for a fresh coat of paint everywhere. The only question mark is the best way to get all the old paint off beforehand........I'd like to get it acid stripped but that's expensive.

[Mike]

Soda bead blasting Colin :thumb: damn sight cheaper then the monkeys at Surface Processing.

[Edd]

I seriously wouldn't get Surface Processing to dip it

I have a shell that was done by them and after owning it a while I wouldn't trust them to do a decent job from what I've found on mine

I'm very surprised there still in business tbh

[Mike]

I'm very surprised there still in business tbh

A friend of mine who deals in Mk1 & Mk2 Escorts said the same thing to me years ago aswell.

[Jonlem]

James.

I will measure up the diffuser when I get a chance, but feel free to chase me up if I forget!!

The Regamaster wheels fit a treat, and certainly feel VERY light (even with the tyres on).

I'll get my slicks fitted on Monday, so that will give me a chance to weight them without the tyre.

Thanks Colin, no rush, I need to get it in the paintshop before I start thinking about the next mods lol

[Rick Draper]

Acid dipping with a weld in cage is not a good idea.

[novarally]

Acid dipping with a weld in cage is not a good idea.

I've not heard of this before, tell me more please..........

[novarally]

The new 15" wheels on the car (not fitted with my slicks yet);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-53.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-20.jpg

[Bubba]

i like....the spokes looks rather thin :eek: i guess thats where the weight is lost

[Rick Draper]

I've not heard of this before, tell me more please..........

Due to welds possibly having pinhole gaps in them there is a chance the tubes could fill with acid. The only way of removing it and preventing it is to drill small holes in the bottom of the tubes. I found this out when i though about having my corsa shell acid dipped.

[novarally]

Due to welds possibly having pinhole gaps in them there is a chance the tubes could fill with acid. The only way of removing it and preventing it is to drill small holes in the bottom of the tubes. I found this out when i though about having my corsa shell acid dipped.

Thanks, I'm glad you told me that.

Blasting it is looking favourite at the moment, as a friend of mine has just bought all the gear, and trialled it on his Mk.1 Escort which came out well.

[novarally]

Looking good Colin. I mat be interested in the diffuser, I'd need some measurements though as it may catch on the arb and as you say not much point using one if you have to cut it up !

Update with measurements of the diffuser, mostly for James........

Length 92cm
Width 104cm

[Jonlem]

Thanks Colin, I'll have a measure up tomorrow :)

[novarally]

Just getting the car ready to go off for another hillclimb at the weekend, and with the new wheels now fitted, I thought it high time it went back on the corner weight scales to see where we are with it...........

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-27.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-29.jpg

And the results........

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-26.jpg

562kg (or 561.5kg if you want to be pedantic).

That's with a full tank of fuel, and all fluids on board, so ready to race (without the driver, obviously!!).

I'm pleased enough with that, and it means I'm still on target for close to 550kg with the next phase of weight saving tweaks.

As a useful comparison, and whilst I still have it, I put my Westfield on the scales as well;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/019-23.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/020-19.jpg

Not bad at all at 486kg, although whoever built it has paid scant regard to weight saving, so there would be loads to come out of that figure if I was keeping it.

[paul james]

Cool that the Nova has much better matching weight distribution between the wheels than the Westfield. I'd never have thought looking at the car that theres 41 kilos difference between the two front wheels! Any ideas what the cage in the Nova weighs? And are you going to give any clues on whats going to make the next 10 kilos of savings? :)

[novarally]

Cool that the Nova has much better matching weight distribution between the wheels than the Westfield. I'd never have thought looking at the car that theres 41 kilos difference between the two front wheels! Any ideas what the cage in the Nova weighs? And are you going to give any clues on whats going to make the next 10 kilos of savings? :)

Indeed, the Westfield needs some proper setting up, it's a worry that people race cars that are so far out. The Nova was actually slightly better than this (within 1kg) before I changed the springs, so I can get that a bit better as well.

I don't know what the full cage weighs, but I'd bet it's 40kg or thereabouts.

The next 10kg of weight loss goes something like this;

Lose the windscreen rubber and bond the screen in directly -1kg
Fit the solid front brake discs in place of the vented ones -3kg
Cut out more metalwork behind the rear wheel centres (est)-4kg
Composite passenger door (if I can find a nice fitting one) -2kg
Composite drivers door (again, needs to fit properly) -2kg
Fit the 4mm windows in place of my illegal 2mm ones +2kg (boo!)

There are other things I can do to go still further, but they all involve lots of cash. The main ones there are;

Titanium tie bars
Titanium anti-roll bars
Titanium driveshafts
Alloy or titanium flywheel
Even lighter weight wheels (Force Racing split rims are on my wish list)
Alloy bodied front struts

[calibra-keith]

plus when a driver gets in the westfield there is even more weight on that side,

are you still planning on putting rad in rear ? few more kg to add with extra pipe and water, or transferring a little weight to pas side to balance it out for when your in the car ?

when i checked what cages weight there about 40-50kg for most weld cages

[novarally]

plus when a driver gets in the westfield there is even more weight on that side,

are you still planning on putting rad in rear ? few more kg to add with extra pipe and water, or transferring a little weight to pas side to balance it out for when your in the car ?

when i checked what cages weight there about 40-50kg for most weld cages


I'm still considering the rear radiator, but it will add a little weight as you say. What I need to decide is whether the weight penalty is made up for by better weight distribution (it's very light at the back end as you can see). There's also the potential to improve the airflow to the turbo and the intercooler design at the front end with the space taken up by the current radiator freed up.

I'm going to be chatting to one of my Mini driving rivals at the weekend to see what he reckons, as he moved his radiator to the back end last season.

[paul james]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/030-8.jpg

Is that an oil catch tank/breather in the passenger arch? and is it still there? perhaps a weight saving to be made if it is, you can get little light weight motorbike ones.

[scott.parker]

Well surprised about the difference in weight distribution on the Westfield, and love the nova's new mk2 front end, quite like the white look to.. new color maybe?

Scott

[Mieran]

Colin, do you choose spring rates based on the axle weight after corner weighting the car? If so, is there some sort of formula behind this?

[novarally]

Colin, do you choose spring rates based on the axle weight after corner weighting the car? If so, is there some sort of formula behind this?

I've stuck with the same spring rates that were on the car when I first got it, as they seem to suit me. I only changed them because I needed some shorter ones on the back end.

Everyone has their own opinion/preference on spring rates.

I run a low rate spring on the back, but someone I know used to run a lightweight Nova and he insisted that 600lb rear springs were the answer. He lent them to me to try on my car, and it was truly awful in my view.

[novarally]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/030-8.jpg

Is that an oil catch tank/breather in the passenger arch? and is it still there? perhaps a weight saving to be made if it is, you can get little light weight motorbike ones.

It is a catch tank for oil, and it is still there. I compared about 6 different catch tanks which came my way, and this was the lightest. I've been looking out for a carbon fibre one, but no luck so far.

Any photos of the motorcycle ones you had in mind please?

[novarally]

Well surprised about the difference in weight distribution on the Westfield, and love the nova's new mk2 front end, quite like the white look to.. new color maybe?

Scott

White is on my shortlist, but I have to say I'm also very tempted to have it painted black, with metallic grey interior.

I've got a bit of a thing for black race cars with gold detailing at the minute.

[paul james]

Do you recall what the weight of that tank is?
I have a similar square aluminium one in my engine bay, but I'm looking about for something smaller as theres not much room for it. These ones are tiny:

http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!Bu7DUWgCWk~$(KGrHqR,!iYEv1+0I-UIBMCY1E2wJg~~_35.JPG

not cheap though, ebay number - 330607398995
might be able to find them cheaper elsewhere.

[novarally]

Do you recall what the weight of that tank is?
I have a similar square aluminium one in my engine bay, but I'm looking about for something smaller as theres not much room for it. These ones are tiny:

http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!Bu7DUWgCWk~$(KGrHqR,!iYEv1+0I-UIBMCY1E2wJg~~_35.JPG

not cheap though, ebay number - 330607398995
might be able to find them cheaper elsewhere.

That does look quite neat (and pricey!), although the weight isn't given I notice. If I remember rightly the tank I have in mine is about 750g.

[paul james]

According to this forum thread - http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f25/lightest-oil-catch-can-15-lbs-101775/ its 0.60 lbs which is 0.27 kilos.

If yours is 750g, then theres some easy weight to be saved I guess.

My current aluminium one weighs in at 0.36 Kilos with the filter still attached as in the pic below:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.james21/SDC10377.jpg


And I picked up this custom made little stainless steel one the other day:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKisE4riIyU5fBOVoj9D8(Q~~_12.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqMOKkME5YHo1oZDBO(o+6mHTQ~~_12.JPG

and that weighs 0.52 kilos as in its photo state, despite being very solidly made.

I presume you don't actually fill that tank with oily mess very quickly, so there could be weight saving by just using a smaller tank.

[MK999]

Bin it entirely and breathe it to atmosphere, should barely see anything out of it if it's been rebuilt. Also adds another visual diagnostic tool tbh.

[mowgli]

dropping oil all over the road surface on a hill climb is a great way to make friends...... personally, i'd use a plastic bottle. or a tin can

[MK999]

Like I said, should see barely anything out of it if the engine is rebuilt. Mine on a 1.6 that wasn't rebuilt and covered 80k filled up maybe once in the while time I had it and was 80% water.

[mowgli]

yes, but a 10 year old race engine with a re-ring & a large turbo running decent boost at high revs might just blow back a lot more than an old high mile road engine..... i'd keep a catch tank.

[paul james]

I originally just had an empty drinks can with a bit of wire through it to hold it in place, about as light and cheap as you can get. Since I like things to be a bit more tidy and professional, I got the aluminium tank shown above a few years back. Are there any regulations on the matter in the hill climbing you do?

[novarally]

Bin it entirely and breathe it to atmosphere, should barely see anything out of it if it's been rebuilt. Also adds another visual diagnostic tool tbh.

Race regulations don't allow you to vent to atmosphere for obvious reasons...........

[MK999]

Race regulations don't allow you to vent to atmosphere for obvious reasons...........

There is a way round that but it's an expensive part of a dry sump system lol Washer bottle or similar with a hole tapped in it then?

[novarally]

Did the final hillclimb event of the year at Gurston Down on Sunday, and came away with a 3rd place (behind the KAD and BMW 16v Mini's again). But I managed a new Personal Best time by nearly half a second, and the Top Three was covered by 4/10'ths of a second, so it was a close battle.

I had a big 2-wheeled moment at one of the corners, and I'm fairly certain that without that I might have got the elusive win. I'm hoping someone has captured that on video or camera.

The under 1400cc Class is ultra-competitive now, to the extent that my 3rd place time would have been good enough for me to win the 1400-2000cc Class by well over a second!!

The engine still sounds very rattly, and is due to go back to BTEC Racing for examination. We have discussed returning it to hydraulic lifters, as nothing has ever convinced me that it needed solid lifters in the first place......

We're going to look at having a custom camshaft made for it during the Winter off-season, as I could really do with finding some more power to take the fight harder to the Minis next year.

Lots of other jobs to be done, which may or may not include a complete strip down and re-paint.

[Prey]

be good to see some footage of your run if anyone did get some - i just realised i never even had another nosey round the nova when i came up - duh!

[MattBrown]

Sounds really good tbh colin.

Ill have to make the effort to come see this race one weekend:)

[mowgli]

colin, ever thought of doing a slightly larger engine capacity?? that 1400-2000 class sounds fun

[SGA33]

http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11 (http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/index_29.htm)
There is a few pics of you on this site from sunday
Looks very purposefull now
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9597.htm
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9322.htm
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9323.htm
:)

[novarally]

colin, ever thought of doing a slightly larger engine capacity?? that 1400-2000 class sounds fun

It's crossed my mind a few times, especially now that the guy who always used to win that Class has retired (he was running an ultra-serious Warrior engined Mk.2 Escort).

But I do like the high level of competition in the under 1400 Class. Having said that there's the possibility of rule changes
coming in for the future which would increase the 'turbo equivalency' factor from the current 1.4 multiplier to a figure of 1.5, which would push me into the higher capacity class whether I want to or not!

[novarally]

http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11 (http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/index_29.htm)
There is a few pics of you on this site from sunday
Looks very purposefull now
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9597.htm
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9322.htm
http://www.everleyphotography.co.uk/galleries/gurstongallery/Events/2011-sep11/pages/_MG_9323.htm
:)

Thanks, I'm pleased with the way development is going.

[Mazz]

Mitsubishi Warrior?!

[novarally]

I weighed one of my doors today, which came out at 8kg.

Bear in mind that this is a door that has been completely gutted out of its internals, and skinned in aluminium sheet instead of steel.

I have asked Chris at CM Composites to make me a set of his fibreglass doors, which should come in at a shade under 10kg for the pair, which will give me a useful 6kg weight saving.

Total Weight soon to be 556kg.............

[calibra-keith]

fibreglass doors are probably my best buy for my nova so far, is there not a weight limit for car or car+driver for class your in Colin ? also what are the sizes and offset for wheels as wheels will soon be next on my list.

[novarally]

fibreglass doors are probably my best buy for my nova so far, is there not a weight limit for car or car+driver for class your in Colin ? also what are the sizes and offset for wheels as wheels will soon be next on my list.

I might be calling on you Keith for help with fitting them, it looked like an excellent job you did on yours!!

There's no weight limit at all in hillclimbs/sprints, so the lighter I can get the better. I was talking to a Mini owner at the weekend and he's got his legally down to 480kg!

Difficult to comment on wheel offsets as I haven't got the ideal combination on mine at all.

At the front I've mostly used an ET38 on a 7" rim with a 10mm spacer, so I would say the optimum is probably a 7" with an offset of around ET20 to avoid use of a spacer.

At the back I've got 7" wide with an ET of 11mm, but my rear track is also a lot wider due to the KAD alloy hubs I have fitted. In actual fact the ET11 is a little too wide for mine, so I will eventually get some higher offset wheels made to suit.

You might be better off speaking with other wide-arch Nova owners, as mine has been messed about with so much that comparisons may not be very useful.

Many years ago I had an orange XE-engine wide arch Nova that I am sure had ET0 wheels fitted all round (7" wide I seem to recall), and they filled out the arches just perfectly.

Of course finding the right wheels for the job is tricky, although if you're going for bigger diameters it's not so much of an issue.

[mowgli]

mitsubishi warrior?!

16v n/a pinto engine.....

[16xe_chris]

I'll be on with making you the doors asap ;)

Keith did an outstanding job on fitting his :thumb:

[novarally]

I'll be on with making you the doors asap ;)

Keith did an outstanding job on fitting his :thumb:

Thanks Chris.

I was trying to find some photos of my Nova in action, with little success, but I did find these 5 pages of photos of other motorsport Novas, some of which are cars I know, but others that are new to me;

http://www.zipp.co.uk/search/gallery/nova

Some interesting cars there.

[novarally]

Not a great photo, but these are the wheels I am planning to order;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/untitled-4.jpg

I'm going up to see the chap who makes them next week, so he can take some measurements and start on machining.

If I sell all the other wheels I own I can just about afford a set!

[scott.parker]

Nice "Nova" tyres on them wheels! lol

All looking very very good mate, and nice link to them other nova's, i like what looks to be a standard SR in them.

Scott

[novarally]

This is a good link to see the sort of Mini-based competition I'm up against;

http://www.carbonweezel.co.uk/projects/index.html

My fiercest rivals are Neal Masters and Jim White, both of whom use carbon fibre stuff from this company.

Carbon Weezel produce some stunning carbon fibre work, including bespoke stuff for Sunseekers and Princess's, for those that are simply too wealthy for motorsport.......

[brake-dust]

would you be interested in selling that rear diffuser that didnt fit? and i know you dont normally reply to threads or pms but have locked myself out of my e-mail!

John

[novarally]

would you be interested in selling that rear diffuser that didnt fit? and i know you dont normally reply to threads or pms but have locked myself out of my e-mail!

John

Hi John.

Spooky coincidence alert.........I was literally just writing out the advert for the diffuser to go on EBAY.

I've had a fair bit of interest from people in it, so I thought it best to stick it up for auction.

Any questions feel free to raise them on this topic thread, I seem to be on here regularly, but I do dislike PM's!

[_Jake]

It's crossed my mind a few times, especially now that the guy who always used to win that Class has retired (he was running an ultra-serious Warrior engined Mk.2 Escort).

Was that simon mckinley? or am i mistaken

[novarally]

Was that simon mckinley? or am i mistaken

No, the man I know is Andy Bascombe;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/car9-g.jpg

[novarally]

would you be interested in selling that rear diffuser that didnt fit? and i know you dont normally reply to threads or pms but have locked myself out of my e-mail!

John

John.

Follow this link for the diffuser (and lots of other stuff);

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/hillclimbescort/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

[Ben]

No, the man I know is Andy Bascombe;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/car9-g.jpg

That is gorgeous!

[novarally]

That is gorgeous!

Trust me, it's far better in the flesh, it is unbelievably clean.

Bit of video footage here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4XNvYT-3P0

[calibra-keith]

I might be calling on you Keith for help with fitting them, it looked like an excellent job you did on yours!!

There's no weight limit at all in hillclimbs/sprints, so the lighter I can get the better. I was talking to a Mini owner at the weekend and he's got his legally down to 480kg!

Difficult to comment on wheel offsets as I haven't got the ideal combination on mine at all.

At the front I've mostly used an ET38 on a 7" rim with a 10mm spacer, so I would say the optimum is probably a 7" with an offset of around ET20 to avoid use of a spacer.

At the back I've got 7" wide with an ET of 11mm, but my rear track is also a lot wider due to the KAD alloy hubs I have fitted. In actual fact the ET11 is a little too wide for mine, so I will eventually get some higher offset wheels made to suit.

You might be better off speaking with other wide-arch Nova owners, as mine has been messed about with so much that comparisons may not be very useful.

Many years ago I had an orange XE-engine wide arch Nova that I am sure had ET0 wheels fitted all round (7" wide I seem to recall), and they filled out the arches just perfectly.

Of course finding the right wheels for the job is tricky, although if you're going for bigger diameters it's not so much of an issue.

no problem, im sure you will manage but feel free to ask, and cheers for the info on the wheels i did put up a post while back and looked at a few of the wide-arched threads to get an idea.

[novarally]

Picked up my fibreglass doors from Chris in Keighley yesterday (thanks Chris).

Calibra Keith - you have a PM about fitting them! Thanks.

Today my carbon fibre diffuser arrived in the post. By pure chance it is a perfect fit on the Nova, which is certainly more luck than judgement as the guy selling it didn't bother to supply me with the measurements which I asked for several times.

It also arrived covered in sticky tape, which I was more than annoyed about.

Anyway, it cleaned up OK, and I replaced the ridiculously long and heavy duty bolts which were fitted to it with some mushroom headed alloy ones.

Fitting is obviously not complete yet, but here's a few photos anyway;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/015-23.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-28.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-30.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-27.jpg

[MK999]

69 OPEL plate is a winner.

[mk1nova_rich]

Any news on the wheels then Colin?! Didnt expect to see you lol

[novarally]

Any news on the wheels then Colin?! Didnt expect to see you lol

The wheels are ordered, and a deposit placed.

Carl reckons they will take him around 6 weeks to do, as he's got to get a man in to do some re-programming on one of his machines to change it to suit 15" wheels.

Can't wait to get them!

I'm having 7.5" x 15" for the front, and 7" x 13" for the back.

[scott.parker]

Them dub and euro boys would be confused by this idea Colin, they wouldn't understand the idea of drag reduction, (and slight bit less weight) sound like they will be very nice, but dam costly to.

Scott

[novarally]

Them dub and euro boys would be confused by this idea Colin, they wouldn't understand the idea of drag reduction, (and slight bit less weight) sound like they will be very nice, but dam costly to.

Scott

They're costing a fair bit for sure, but considering the weight loss and looks bonus they give, and the fact they are complete one-offs, I think the price is sensible.

This is the style I'm having;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/13-dsy-wheel.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/13-dsy-black.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/13-wgeel-dsy.jpg

I'm probably going to go with the gold anodised finish.

[novarally]

A few more photos of the diffuser, now fully installed;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-29.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-31.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-28.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/019-24.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/020-20.jpg

[calibra-keith]

looking good Colin, is that a varis universal diffuser ?

i have just emailed you about doors.

[novarally]

looking good Colin, is that a varis universal diffuser ?

i have just emailed you about doors.

It was an EBAY diffuser, apparently for a Honda S2000.

Yes, got your e-mail, thanks.

[MK999]

Might just be the angle but it looks like the front of it is pointed up? You want it flat, so it then curves away upwards. Besides that it looks rather sexy :d

[novarally]

Might just be the angle but it looks like the front of it is pointed up? You want it flat, so it then curves away upwards. Besides that it looks rather sexy :d

For the moment I've just bolted it directly to the spare wheel well (or what's left of it). So the diffuser may well need adjustment to flatten the angle. I'm planning to look at some further aerodynamics such as a flat floor, so it's all work in progress.

[MK999]

You'd have to go a lot lower for a flat floor etc to be worth the weight imo, carbon diffuser is pretty light and easy to bolt up etc so fair enough, but to spend the time/money/weight on the whole hog you'd need to be able to get the best out of it (i.e be double figure mm off the floor rather than double figure cm.)

[novarally]

You'd have to go a lot lower for a flat floor etc to be worth the weight imo, carbon diffuser is pretty light and easy to bolt up etc so fair enough, but to spend the time/money/weight on the whole hog you'd need to be able to get the best out of it (i.e be double figure mm off the floor rather than double figure cm.)

I'm going to be taking the advice of Simon McBeath, well known race car aerodynamicist, and author of 'Competition Car Downforce' and 'Competition Car Aerodynamics', before proceeding with any further developments.

Simon is a friend of mine, so I can tap him up for free advice.

[MK999]

I'm well out of my depth there then lol

[novarally]

Shoddy update as there's nothing much to report at this stage.........all I can offer is that to my surprise when I took the tyres off them, the 13" Compomotive Turbo split rims I was using on the rear;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-39.jpg

weigh in at 5.1kg each.

This is a bit of a shock, albeit a welcome one.

I had assumed they would be really lightweight, but clearly that isn't the case. The new ones that Force Racing are making for me at the moment will be 3.4kg, for exactly the same size of wheel, so that will be a very useful and unexpected saving of circa 3.5kg!

I'm now looking into the potential weight savings to be had from replacing the stressed bolts/nuts on the car with titanium ones.

The plan would be to replace the fasteners in suspension/steering/seat mounts. I've done some calculations and it could save half a kilo, although the cost could well be £200 without any bother. Very much into the laws of diminishing returns now........

[MK999]

£200 for 500g at the kind of stage you're at isn't too shocking imo, also not too bad for replacing that many larger bolts tbh. Normally about £8 each for little m6's etc for bikes.

[16xe_chris]

Titanium or Alloy wheel nuts Colin :thumb:

[novarally]

Titanium or Alloy wheel nuts Colin :thumb:

I got some alloy ones, but we're not allowed to use them.

The regulations specifically state they have to be of ferrous construction.

One of the guys I race with has a Porsche GT3 RS which has titanium wheel nuts fitted as standard, and he was told to get them changed......

[mowgli]

Tbh, something as safety critical as a wheel nut/stud should be steel on a hill climber, its not like they have runoff zones/gravel traps on your average hill climb course

[Mike]

Tbh, something as safety critical as a wheel nut/stud should be steel on a hill climber, its not like they have runoff zones/gravel traps on your average hill climb course

Loton has none what so ever :S gravel trap = armco lol

[burgo]

I'm going to be taking the advice of Simon McBeath, well known race car aerodynamicist, and author of 'Competition Car Downforce' and 'Competition Car Aerodynamics', before proceeding with any further developments.

Simon is a friend of mine, so I can tap him up for free advice.

jealous, i want a friend like that!

i have to agree though, from the pics of how its sits i would guess its just looking pretty

[novarally]

jealous, i want a friend like that!

i have to agree though, from the pics of how its sits i would guess its just looking pretty

As far as fitment goes, it is simply attached where both ends conveniently touched against something I could bolt to.........pure luck, but absolutely no science.

But it does look good.

I've started stripping the car down ready for its respray, and have found numerous things which can be altered to save small amounts of weight, and without spending any money, which is critical right now.

[scott.parker]

More pics are needed Colin, i love the work you do on this car, as imo your the only one who's bothering to see how far it can be taken to make a competitive nova, most people would of ruled them out long ago...

[novarally]

After doing some work on my Westfield yesterday, I noticed that the 6 point race harness in it seemed to be considerably lighter than the one in my Nova (both Willans Silverstone with the alloy adjusters). The Westfield uses the 'single seater' style harness with the short rear straps.

Putting them on the scales, the single seater harness is well over 1kg lighter than the 'saloon' version.

The main reasons for this are that the single seater harnesses bolt into place, rather than having the quick release clips that saloon harnesses have which attach to the eye bolts, and the design of the crutch strap differs.

So now I'm considering whether to weld in an extra bar on the roll cage to attach a single seater type harness. The extra bar will obviously add a bit of weight, but not as much as I'd be saving (the tube would be T45 steel).

See photos to explain things more clearly;

The current 'saloon' type harness I use;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-47.jpg

And the single seater type;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-57.jpg

To use the single seater harness I'd need to add an extra bar to the roll cage, something like this;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-55.jpg

If I wanted to save even more weight, and had an awful lot of money, I could later upgrade to the ultimate in F1 single seater harnesses, and save another half a kilo;

http://www.willans.com/lightweight-single-seater/lwtslv633ss-lightweight-silverstone-single-seater

[novarally]

A few more ongoing things;

A slightly smaller alloy radiator, and a Davies Craig electric water pump which I acquired from a Mini;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/001-22.jpg

I'm still debating whether or not to fit the radiator into the back of the car. But I do want to fit the electric water pump so it can be left circulating coolant even when the engine's switched off.

I'm re-making the rear bonnet pin mountings, just to save a few more grammes;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-39.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-40.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-36.jpg

The current mountings for the harness eye bolts are very heavy duty;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/008-33.jpg

I have plans to cut these strengthening plates out, and revise the mountings, saving weight but without compromising strength.

The clutch actuation lever looks a prime candidate for being made out of something lighter, either alloy or titanium;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-32.jpg

And if I can find someone to do it at a sensible price (any suggestions welcome), I'd like to get the exhaust downpipe and system fabricated in titanium;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/009-31.jpg

Also acquired these rather natty Kevlar inner arch liners from a Corsa B kit car, which I'm hoping can be made to fit the Nova;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/021-18.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/022-15.jpg

[The Simps]

Surely adding the harness bar will negate the weight saved on the harness?

Good to see you still pushing the boundaries with this colin :)

[mowgli]

colin, i reckon you might want to leave the gear lever alone.. the force put thru it will be quite big, even on a std clutch.

[novarally]

Surely adding the harness bar will negate the weight saved on the harness?

Good to see you still pushing the boundaries with this colin :)

I don't think a short length of T45 tubing will weigh anywhere close to the 1kg to 1.5kg saving on the harness.

[novarally]

colin, i reckon you might want to leave the gear lever alone.. the force put thru it will be quite big, even on a std clutch.

I think it would need to be done in titanium for that reason, but it's a heavy item, so cannot avoid my attentions. Also don't forget that on my car it's hydraulically activated, so it probably has less stress on it?

Force Racing (who are making my split rim wheels) have done a similar clutch lever in titanium for the Minis and had no issues with it.

[scott.parker]

Colin i really admire your determination to to find new ways to make this car lighter for increasing it's competitiveness, i don't mean to sound rude or disrespectful, but i know if i was 9st instead of my currant chunky 14! (put on while off work with my back) i would get quicker times on 1/4 mile runs, and have a slightly better handing car on track, have you been trying hard to cut your body weight too? as I'm sure some of them guys in the mini's are probably lighter then me, no?

[Mike]

There probably impossible to get hold off, BUT at work we/I make carbon fibre engine fans & the cowling for Porsche Le Man cars. The entire fan, its blades & housing/cowling are carbon fibre & perfectly balanced to +/- 0.3gram. Without the motor they weight about 100g.

[mowgli]

I think it would need to be done in titanium for that reason, but it's a heavy item, so cannot avoid my attentions. Also don't forget that on my car it's hydraulically activated, so it probably has less stress on it?

Force Racing (who are making my split rim wheels) have done a similar clutch lever in titanium for the Minis and had no issues with it.

is there any mileage in looking at the hydraulic setup used on the later f15 type boxes? as it is build in round the input shaft with the thrust bearing on it.

[novarally]

Colin i really admire your determination to to find new ways to make this car lighter for increasing it's competitiveness, i don't mean to sound rude or disrespectful, but i know if i was 9st instead of my currant chunky 14! (put on while off work with my back) i would get quicker times on 1/4 mile runs, and have a slightly better handing car on track, have you been trying hard to cut your body weight too? as I'm sure some of them guys in the mini's are probably lighter then me, no?

I've every intention of pursuing that route too, and it would certainly be cheaper.....I'm 2 stone heavier than when I lived in Bournemouth and had a gym local to me (and the motivation of youth too).

[novarally]

There probably impossible to get hold off, BUT at work we/I make carbon fibre engine fans & the cowling for Porsche Le Man cars. The entire fan, its blades & housing/cowling are carbon fibre & perfectly balanced to +/- 0.3gram. Without the motor they weight about 100g.

Good thought Mike, but I don't even have a fan on the car, so that wouldn't help!

[novarally]

is there any mileage in looking at the hydraulic setup used on the later f15 type boxes? as it is build in round the input shaft with the thrust bearing on it.

It had crossed my mind, I think that's much the same set-up as was used on the Vectra F23 'boxes as well? Although whether the bits are interchangeable onto the small block gearboxes I don't know.

[mowgli]

i think you'd need the f15 casing complete. but all the f10/13 stuff fits in. its probably heavier though..

[novarally]

Just had a quote to blast all the paint off the inside, outside and underneath, and put it into primer for £400. Doesn't sound too bad to me, they're less than 10 miles from me and do a lot of stuff with classic car restoration.

[Alex J]

Just had a quote to blast all the paint off the inside, outside and underneath, and put it into primer for £400. Doesn't sound too bad to me, they're less than 10 miles from me and do a lot of stuff with classic car restoration.that sounds like a fair price to me, aslong as the blast gets into the the places the acid dip would to strip, i.e rails etc.

[Mitchell Motorsports]

Great Idea with the Harness Colin, At least you have found a way to say weight without having to fork out for the Titanium Eye Bolts! And Normal Titanium Bolts to bolt in in should be cheaper then the Eye bolts too!

[Iain]

that sounds like a fair price to me, aslong as the blast gets into the the places the acid dip would to strip, i.e rails etc.

Blast media won't get inside the rails will it? Thought it was just outside only?

[Ben]

I will have a nose round a factory im working in on saturday they do tons of titanium fabrication and always have bolts etc knocking round.

[novarally]

I will have a nose round a factory im working in on saturday they do tons of titanium fabrication and always have bolts etc knocking round.

Thanks Ben, any help would be much appreciated!