985cc Turbocharged Nova Sprint Car [Archive] - Page 3 - Performance Nova Group

boffer8

19-09-10, 04:04 PM

are you blind? - not 5mm thick!
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq313/ditch_digger/fiat/frombehind.jpg

Please note after all the argueing... lol that the disc is a solid car disc and the caliper has a machined spacer (silver section in the middle of the caliper) to allow this to be used in combo with the disc. To me this is cheap and not really the "Proper" way to do things but if its all he had and working to a budget and works for him in his circumstances then go for it...

mowgli

19-09-10, 04:23 PM

vented discs have limited appeal on a hill climber too.. they need to keep heat in them

TeddyThom

20-09-10, 10:35 AM

Funnily enough that's something I had thought about on many occasions.

My computer skills/equipment aren't up to it, so who wants to earn a few quid by making me some self-adhesive Mk.1 Nova headlamp stickers?

I can do this... I can make my own vinyls as well... They not uber fantastic and aren't huge but I can do some headlamps if you wanted? Just got to find a half decent picture of said headlamps lol

novarally

21-09-10, 09:46 AM

I can do this... I can make my own vinyls as well... They not uber fantastic and aren't huge but I can do some headlamps if you wanted? Just got to find a half decent picture of said headlamps lol

Excellent, that would be much appreciated, thanks.

Who can e-mail me a couple of good quality photos of an offside and nearside Mk.1 Nova headlamp with CLEAR indicators?

I don't have any clear indicators currently!

TeddyThom

21-09-10, 03:15 PM

Or you can email them to me whichever is good lol, by the way if you put them onto the car then you will definately need some UV Lacquer spray, otherwise they will fade or wash off in the rain, that's happened to me before where I did some vinyls for their motorbike and didn't put any lacquer on it, then went through a huge puddle and it all washed off on one side

novarally

22-09-10, 04:58 PM

The rear disc brake conversion is now all tacked together, complete with caliper mounting brackets.

I need to trial fit it on the car now, and see how it all looks/fits.

We machined down the stub axle and mounted it differently which should mean the track is only increased by around 10mm each side. But we will see better when it's bolted to the car and a wheel is fitted!

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-15.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-17.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-14.jpg

Andy

22-09-10, 07:20 PM

Very nice colin

TeddyThom

22-09-10, 10:10 PM

Nice work dude, I'd love to see this for real, is it going to be making an appearance at Billing next year?? I'm hoping to be going there with my nova, it "should" be done by then lol

novarally

30-09-10, 02:58 PM

Nice work dude, I'd love to see this for real, is it going to be making an appearance at Billing next year?? I'm hoping to be going there with my nova, it "should" be done by then lol

Yes, Billing is definitely in my diary for next year.

This morning I did a deal to buy the complete set of body panels from this Nova (apologies for the poor photo);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/2096218-9.jpg

Possibly the widest arch Nova ever?

I probably won't be using the arch kit as it's just a bit too wide, but there were composite doors, bonnet, tailgate and some moulds in with it, so it had to be bought.

bmw156

30-09-10, 03:53 PM

nice one colin,

keep up the good work.

Ben

30-09-10, 04:40 PM

Did you get the Kev sign from the front as well lol

MK1_Ben

30-09-10, 05:51 PM

Just read through this whole thread. In short, this car, and the work going into it is brilliant :)

mowgli

30-09-10, 05:52 PM

you should try to see it in real life then

novarally

05-10-10, 06:41 PM

Just did the trial fit of the rear brakes;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-9.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/019-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/020-10.jpg

I'm pleased. Everything fits perfectly, the final weight saving is 3.1kg (per side), and the wheel is not sitting much further out than it was with the drum brakes.

Andy

05-10-10, 06:44 PM

Awesome

Edd

05-10-10, 07:12 PM

Very nice !

I take it the Sprint C bodykit you have forsale is too heavy to put on this car ?

Would look awesome tho IMO

Gibbo

05-10-10, 11:22 PM

looking good

novarally

06-10-10, 08:01 AM

Very nice !

I take it the Sprint C bodykit you have forsale is too heavy to put on this car ?

Would look awesome tho IMO

I haven't 100% ruled it out yet.......the wings and arches are not as heavy as I thought they would be.

But the bumpers are definitely 'heavy duty'.

The bigger question mark is deciding whether to 'wide arch' the car at all, or leave it looking like a standard Nova.

mowgli

06-10-10, 09:02 AM

Colin, that is an excellent job. they look like they should all be like that

craig green

06-10-10, 09:23 PM

I'm pleased. Everything fits perfectly, the final weight saving is 3.1kg (per side), and the wheel is not sitting much further out than it was with the drum brakes.

Thats a great result, lets hope the brake performance is what you expect. Does the car have a bias setup in it already?

novarally

08-10-10, 06:39 PM

Thats a great result, lets hope the brake performance is what you expect. Does the car have a bias setup in it already?

Yes, the bias can be adjusted on the floor mounted pedal box. If the rear brakes do almost nothing I will be happy, it hardly needs anything on the back.

A couple more photos (on the test axle, not the final job!);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/037-4.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/038-3.jpg

Graeme

08-10-10, 06:42 PM

Is that the cleanest beam you had 'on stock' Colin? I suppose its function over form

novarally

08-10-10, 06:57 PM

Is that the cleanest beam you had 'on stock' Colin? I suppose its function over form

Obviously I used the worst one I had, no point in cannabilising a good one for use as a test bed!

discoinferno

09-10-10, 10:06 AM

Is that the cleanest beam you had 'on stock' Colin? I suppose its function over form

its a beam, he used for a purpose. why does it matter if it is painted in hammerite and tarted up or has some surface rust:tard::tard::tard::tard::tard:

Ben

09-10-10, 10:16 AM

its a beam, he used for a purpose. why does it matter if it is painted in hammerite and tarted up or has some surface rust:tard::tard::tard::tard::tard:

lol well said its a lump of steel that can be sanded and painted and would look like brand new!

Jonlem

09-10-10, 10:18 AM

lol well said its a lump of steel that can be sanded and painted and would look like brand new!
Worth keeping in mind that those beams do bend so the any beam will do thought isn't strictly right.

I believe the works manual specified a tolerance on them and if it was out of that you would bin it and start again, obviously ok back in the day when they were a off the shelf item

Car is looking great Colin, brakes are very smart.

Graeme

09-10-10, 10:44 AM

The comment didn't relate to being able to see your face in the shine of it or being able to eat your dinner of it, the corrosion sure won't help the strength of it and I'm sure a sprint or hill-climb car is subject to large forces and is driven harder than Vauxhall intended, I know that the car is massively lighter than most but I don't see the point in adding well engineered, billet brake components, to a old, rust-weaked beam. This is only my opinion

paul james

09-10-10, 10:56 AM

The beam is rather thick metal, so a bit of surface rust isn't going to do serious harm. A bit of time with a wire wheel and some paint, and it would look like new I bet.

novaxe235

09-10-10, 11:01 AM

mowgli

09-10-10, 11:15 AM

can we all stop jumping on people.. the thread is about colins car. graeme made a valid comment, about the rusty axle being the test axle, as in being tested on it, not just offered up on it, and he's had 2 pages of abuse.

Graeme

09-10-10, 11:53 AM

I did read the test axle bit but I wondered why not use a good one as it looks like it bolts on and off anyway, not a massive deal obviously but the know-it-alls have to be there getting there 2 pence worths in, when I was mearly asking Colin a question.

MattBrown

09-10-10, 12:05 PM

Spudly

09-10-10, 12:12 PM

Ben

09-10-10, 12:15 PM

Exactly, anymore and ill abuse you all with the banstick.

For having an opinion? What is this Mig?

Spudly

09-10-10, 12:29 PM

No for jumping on him and being very snotty, dont you start or ill poke you too lol

Anyways back on topic, that beam looks gash colin :p

novarally

09-10-10, 01:32 PM

No for jumping on him and being very snotty, dont you start or ill poke you too lol

Anyways back on topic, that beam looks gash colin :p

You're right, I've skipped it;)

Spudly

09-10-10, 01:41 PM

Lmfao, is the finished item bolted up now then?

Jonlem

09-10-10, 01:44 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Jatec/302.jpg

novarally

09-10-10, 03:45 PM

Lmfao, is the finished item bolted up now then?

Not yet.

Now the new rear brake set-up has all been tested for fit, and I'm happy with everything on the test beam, I shall be transferring it all to the beam which is already on the car (which I know is straight, and looks pretty).

scott.parker

09-10-10, 04:21 PM

Still enjoying the updates Colin, keep up the good work, lol must be the most controversial WIP thread in PNG history, never seen so many arguments over a rear brake setup.

Scott

novarally

09-10-10, 04:41 PM

Still enjoying the updates Colin, keep up the good work, lol must be the most controversial WIP thread in PNG history, never seen so many arguments over a rear brake setup.

Scott

Thanks Scott, it's been an enjoyable journey so far.

Time for some more controversy, as I've had an experiment with the Irmscher Sprint bodykit today...............still not decided on whether or not to wide arch, and if so with which type of kit. But here are some photos to trigger more debate;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/008-11.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/009-10.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/010-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/011-9.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/012-10.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/013-7.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/014-6.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/015-9.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-11.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-10.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/019-13.jpg

scott.parker

09-10-10, 04:52 PM

IF incorporating the arches means you can loose some body weight out the car, and gain some advantage over wider track (EG wheels/tires) then it makes sense to go for it to me..

Scott

therealnovaboy

09-10-10, 05:10 PM

think it would look pretty cool and would like to see it done, however unless done in the proper sprint colours i dont think it would get appreciated the same. it would be hard to pull off with out it looking like some sort of tacky street racer if you get what im saying. would it not reduce air flow over the intercooler.

by the way think its the first time ive posted in this thread and would just like to say its a top motor, respek.

Jonlem

09-10-10, 07:32 PM

old MO's ?? Awesome !

Graeme

09-10-10, 07:40 PM

I fooking love that kit, I wish I was building a hatch and had a million quid to buy it lol

mowgli

09-10-10, 08:22 PM

i'd say. get moulds made & some crazy lightweight copies made. then use them. i reckon that kit would stick 50-75kg on the car

burgo

09-10-10, 09:43 PM

front wings look lush, not sure if the full kit would work though

novarally

10-10-10, 09:05 AM

i'd say. get moulds made & some crazy lightweight copies made. then use them. i reckon that kit would stick 50-75kg on the car

It's not as bad as I was expecting, by my calculations it would add around 10kg for the 4 x arches, and closer to 20kg if the bumpers were used as well.

I think if I go down the wide-arch route I'm more likely to use the 'rallycross' style kit;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/NovaSport2462.jpg

The man I use for all composite bodywork has all the moulds for this kit, and he will make it for me in ultra-light carbon so it will end up saving weight, which is the name of the game.

Ben

10-10-10, 10:27 AM

I would say the rally cross carbon idea is the way to go if you can budget for that on this build (i know tht is a very costly route) would certainly help you give the car your stamp.

I personally think it would give you chance to give the car a blow over too as imo the red and yellow scheme dont suit a nova, i still think your white yellow and grey you had on B11 OVA all those years ago is probably my favorite Nova livery.

For those not been around that long here is a pic of Colin's old car...

http://members.multimania.co.uk/novarally2003/images/b11nova-gurston2.jpg

http://members.multimania.co.uk/novarally2003/images/Rally7.jpg

discoinferno

10-10-10, 07:13 PM

the above nova looks ****ing ace

Ben

11-10-10, 09:27 AM

the above nova looks ****ing ace

Was an awesome machine and the attention to detail was incredible, here is the full spec etc of it, sorry for hi jacking the thread...

B11 OVA (http://members.multimania.co.uk/novarally2003/rally.htm)

Cle

11-10-10, 07:40 PM

Had a wee look at the Fiberglass bodykit you've bought colin the wings are mega wide lol

novarally

11-10-10, 07:54 PM

Was an awesome machine and the attention to detail was incredible, here is the full spec etc of it, sorry for hi jacking the thread...

B11 OVA (http://members.multimania.co.uk/novarally2003/rally.htm)

Thanks Ben, that Nova brings back happy memories for me.

Jonlem

11-10-10, 08:14 PM

How upto date is the parts list on that website ?

novarally

11-10-10, 08:52 PM

How upto date is the parts list on that website ?

At a guess I'd say at least 6 years out of date.........

ste porter

11-10-10, 11:16 PM

Yes, Billing is definitely in my diary for next year.

This morning I did a deal to buy the complete set of body panels from this Nova (apologies for the poor photo);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/2096218-9.jpg

Possibly the widest arch Nova ever?

I probably won't be using the arch kit as it's just a bit too wide, but there were composite doors, bonnet, tailgate and some moulds in with it, so it had to be bought.

did you get this kit collin? if so are you using it ect and can you give me a ring you got my number as i would love to see it in the flesh and take some mesurements ect of it as i have a full fiberglass wide arch kit for my 4x4 but im looking at going wider and the rears beeing fabed out of steel!

novarally

12-10-10, 08:13 AM

did you get this kit collin? if so are you using it ect and can you give me a ring you got my number as i would love to see it in the flesh and take some mesurements ect of it as i have a full fiberglass wide arch kit for my 4x4 but im looking at going wider and the rears beeing fabed out of steel!

The kit has been dropped off at my mates house in Scotland, he's going to bring it down for me next time he's on his way South, so it might be a few weeks yet before I get it.

You're welcome to come and have a look and a measure up.

Jonlem

12-10-10, 10:12 AM

At a guess I'd say at least 6 years out of date.........

lollol

Not much then.

ste porter

12-10-10, 11:25 PM

The kit has been dropped off at my mates house in Scotland, he's going to bring it down for me next time he's on his way South, so it might be a few weeks yet before I get it.

You're welcome to come and have a look and a measure up.

cheers mate your a star

novarally

14-10-10, 12:45 PM

Still looking at more ways to improve the Nova ready for next season.

Some lighter (and more powerful) front brakes are currently being researched, again taking the classic Mini racers for inspiration;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/bigminibrakes250.jpg

These are KAD 6-pot calipers with a 260mm vented disc. The caliper weighs only 1.23kg.

Although I have been harbouring a bit of a wild notion to look into the possibilities of using 10" Mini wheels, which would save loads of weight, as well as lowering the centre of gravity.

However, there could be all sorts of potential horrors in store with that route, as the geometry of a Nova was never designed to work with such small diameter wheels.

Physically, they'd be easy to fit on the back end, especially now I'm using Mini hubs anyway.

But the front might be trouble, with steering arms, knuckle etc. all in the way. And of course it would need much smaller brakes as well.

But look at these KAD 10" magnesium wheels, and tell me they aren't lovely;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/silvermag.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/magclock200.jpg

and the 7" wide wheel weighs in at an incredible 2.52kg!!

Ben

14-10-10, 01:39 PM

The weight of those calipers is amazing! Well and the wheels!

Cant things sometimes be taken too far though Colin?

novarally

17-10-10, 05:20 PM

Cant things sometimes be taken too far though Colin?

Never.

================================================

I'm now looking into modifying the front brakes to use 6-pot motorcycle calipers, with a solid disc instead of a vented one.

I've yet to do my Google-research, but I've heard of one car that runs motorcycle calipers on the front, does anybody have any links they could send me for more details?

Please note - cars with motorcycle REAR brake conversions are of no interest, there are loads of them around! It's FRONT conversions I need to know about.

Thanks.

MK999

17-10-10, 05:23 PM

Dunno if you noticed but it was mentioned a while back on this very thread, we were under the impression you were running fairly lightweight calipers anyway though?

novarally

17-10-10, 06:01 PM

Dunno if you noticed but it was mentioned a while back on this very thread, we were under the impression you were running fairly lightweight calipers anyway though?

I'm currently using Wilwood Dynalites on the front, which weigh in at 2.04kg each (with the pads). So they are very lightweight calipers.

It's really the discs which are the heavy bit. I'm using cross-drilled ventilated discs of 247mm x 20mm, and those are 4.2kg each.

Solid discs would save me some weight, especially with an alloy bell machined up to suit. And motorcycle calipers appeal as they are very lightweight, and more importantly, cheap and easily available.

MK999

17-10-10, 06:37 PM

Would you not suffer some brake fade on solid discs, or would it not be a problem for you?

novarally

17-10-10, 06:57 PM

Would you not suffer some brake fade on solid discs, or would it not be a problem for you?

Not a problem at all, brakes never get hot enough to worry about fading.

bmw156

17-10-10, 07:52 PM

did you see the stuff i put up in this thread colin, everyone was against it!

the thread i got it from was just some guy in a random location in the world using an alternative lol. nothing technical.

novarally

17-10-10, 09:48 PM

Nice!

Where did you get your mirror Colin?

Post for Mark's benefit..........

Mark, the carbon fibre mirror is now on EBAY, it's geting ditched as a tiny part of the Autumn/Winter weight saving programme.

MK999

17-10-10, 09:51 PM

Shiny carbon fibre bits is purely detrimental to my bank balance actually lol Guessing it goes for way more than I can justify spending on it but I'll keep an eye, I do like carbon fibre bits :p

edit: just realised that's not even me, thought my memory of asking about it was a bit vague lol

novarally

19-10-10, 02:58 PM

Borrowed a split rim from the man who is going to make my new set of wheels so I can do some experimenting with size, fitting and offset.

This is an 8" x 13" wheel, ET -3;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-22.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-17.jpg

It doesn't fit on the front as the caliper protrudes past the hub mounting face, and the wheel has a flat centre. So that will need addressing;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-17.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-17.jpg

novarally

19-10-10, 03:01 PM

And I may replace the current aluminium bonnet vent with a carbon one;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-20.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-23.jpg

Connor

19-10-10, 03:23 PM

Jesus i thought this thing was light enough, the way your going colin, your gonna have to tie it to the ground to save it floating off :p

Edd

19-10-10, 05:32 PM

Nice to see the Sprint C front wings are still on :d

Hope they stay

novarally

19-10-10, 06:00 PM

Nice to see the Sprint C front wings are still on :d

Hope they stay

Sorry Edd, they're not stopping, I have taken a deposit on the full Irmscher kit and wheels!

Edd

19-10-10, 06:15 PM

Sad news :( maybe not suited to your Nova tho

Has someone from the forum bought the kit then ?

mowgli

19-10-10, 06:16 PM

make some vac form ones.........like RC cars.

bmw156

19-10-10, 07:29 PM

a suggestion.

the mudguards/splash guards on the front.

could you replace them with ally or rubber. or is that against your regs?

novarally

19-10-10, 08:08 PM

a suggestion.

the mudguards/splash guards on the front.

could you replace them with ally or rubber. or is that against your regs?

Not permitted within the regulations, as they are an integral part of the body structure, and located within the wheel centres.

novarally

20-10-10, 11:12 AM

I'm looking into reducing the weight of the rear beam assembly.

I plan to remove the spring seats, and cut away the parts where the bolts for the rear anti-roll bar would normally fit, and then re-weld the seams.

The bulk of the weight must be in the 'V' shaped part of the axle.

For those of you with an engineering/motorsport background (Mowgli/MK999 etc.), I'm curious to get some thoughts on to what extent of weight reduction I can get away with........obviously Vauxhall will have built the rear beam to be able to cope with 4 adults and their luggage, so maybe an all-up weight of 1300kg.

My Nova weighs less than 600kg, so the load-bearing needs will be a lot less.

Thoughts please?

Stuart

20-10-10, 11:18 AM

its the twisting that will be the real killer on the beam as its designed to be an ARB aswell as the moving suspension parts...

MK999

20-10-10, 11:35 AM

Working on a generalisation/basic principles of design; The load bearing may need to be a lot less, but Vauxhall would have designed it not to snap, not to not bend.

Certain parts of F1 cars tend to break off because of random direction/impact forces from them being lightened, but the tolerance for the wheel centres is around 4mm under use, which means taking into consideration the wanted movements from the suspension etc, the components bending, added up, is less than 4mm.

This is where it gets complicated on a rear beam though, because rear beams DO bend, and twist about their mounting points, as part of their design, from a pure principle not taking this into account they purely move up and down staying entirely level, which if you've ever parked on a funny angle on a verge etc or jacked it up on one side, you will know is not the true case. This effect basically turns into your roll stiffness, hence we add rear ARB's, stiffening the beam, rather than the traditional independant suspension style with 2 'arms' twisting a tube.

Basically, what this means is; anything you take away from the beam, to retain the same handling characteristics, you will have to add again to increase the roll stiffness back up to where you want it. The way in which a component like this is normally lightened for motorsport is either a different material or a complete redesign, changing to component shape to be stiffer with less material used.

However there could be an advantage to be had if your bladed ARB is body mounted Colin, as you could lighten up the rear beam, almost making it IRS in the way it twists, and regain this in the ARB, I'd suggest using a larger diameter tube, and keeping your roll stiffness so the 'middle' is still the same as your current roll stiffness, rather than simply adjusting it up a lot and making the lower end of your adjustment useless. This would reduce your unsprung weight.

mowgli

20-10-10, 12:44 PM

colin chapman used to 'add lightness', so he would keep lightening something, until it broke, and then use the previous one that was a bit stronger..... unfortunately, people got killed by this process.....

the rear beam isn't massively heavy, and as stu says, it has torsion properties. i'm sure people have made lightweight tube beams for novas, but i'm not sure they run slicks.

are you allowed to do anything with the rear beam mounts? cos if you can play with them, then an irs might be the way to go, but you will obviously need to come up with some sort of centre mount.

am i right in thinking that you can't mess with the shell structure between the axle centres?

Royston

20-10-10, 01:08 PM

its the twisting that will be the real killer on the beam as its designed to be an ARB aswell as the moving suspension parts...

Agreed, I spent many years testing "twist beam" axles V beam is stressed torsionally, any lightening holes, slots will create a stress raisers and possibly induce fatigue failures, would advise to look elsewhere, away from the V beam;) .

Use to work for a company that made axles for Ford Fiesta, Escort, more recently Current Honda Civic;)

novarally

20-10-10, 02:19 PM

are you allowed to do anything with the rear beam mounts? cos if you can play with them, then an irs might be the way to go, but you will obviously need to come up with some sort of centre mount.

am i right in thinking that you can't mess with the shell structure between the axle centres?

A few extracts from the MSA's 'Hillclimb and Sprint' regulations, which I need to comply with;

12.4.1 The chassis or unitary construction must remain to the manufacturer's original specification in construction and material withon the wheel hub centres. Re-positioning of suspension pick-up points and engine mountings are permitted.

12.8.2 The original type of suspension must be maintained (e.g. twin wishbone set-up cannot replace a single wishbone suspension; a sliding pillar cannot be replaced by a MacPherson strut; a trailing link cannot be replaced by wishbones or coaxial springing).

12.8.3 A live rear axle may not be replaced by an independent system or De Dion.

12.8.5 Suspension pick-up point positions may be altered, providing the suspension system is maintained as being the original type.

mowgli

20-10-10, 02:34 PM

novarally

20-10-10, 02:53 PM

i'm not sure how much weight could be saved & still keep some sort of strength in it, but if you are up against minis , i'd put money on the fact that their rear subframe has been replaced by some amazingly flimsy beam axle.

i reckon you could make something out of round tube, but i'm really not sure how you'd keep the rear camber fixed.

what does a standard beam weigh??

Yes, the quick Minis all use a beam axle, some of them are using titanium;

http://www.force-racing.co.uk/rear-suspension/

If I remember rightly the Nova rear beam, once stripped of anti-roll bar and stub axles, weighs about 13kg, so there probably isn't a lot of scope for dramatic lightening.

In view of what people have said about the twisting forces, I'm inclined to go with my original plan and just take off the excess brackets and non-structural metal to be on the safe side.

Much as I would like to fabricate a BTCC-style multi-adjustable set-up, it might be a cost too far!

mowgli

20-10-10, 02:59 PM

is the actual rear suspension setup working to your liking? cos it might be a case of working with what you've got, as the mini rear beams are probably 2 grand all in, and thats a lot of money for maybe 5-8kg gains.

burgo

20-10-10, 08:17 PM

with the amount of stuff you've got i would say experiment. having the proper anti roll bar screams out to me you should try "weakening/lightening" one alot just to see what its like

AlanH

22-10-10, 03:02 PM

Never.

================================================

I'm now looking into modifying the front brakes to use 6-pot motorcycle calipers, with a solid disc instead of a vented one.

I've yet to do my Google-research, but I've heard of one car that runs motorcycle calipers on the front, does anybody have any links they could send me for more details?

Please note - cars with motorcycle REAR brake conversions are of no interest, there are loads of them around! It's FRONT conversions I need to know about.

Thanks.
i've rebuilt bike calipers before, had a gsxr with 6 pots on, the calipers split in halp with only o-rings to seal them where the flid passes from side to side. could you not get a spacer made to go in the centre of the caliper in that gap to widen them up to fit car discs? cant see why this wouldnt work. mine had standard tociko 6 pots on but i've seen a few track bikes with pretech calipers fitted, these thinks are fookin awesome on bikes and lighter than stock.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CBR-900-Fireblade-Pretech-Big-Brake-Conversion-/250710868905?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a5f8843a9

novarally

22-10-10, 04:47 PM

i've rebuilt bike calipers before, had a gsxr with 6 pots on, the calipers split in halp with only o-rings to seal them where the flid passes from side to side. could you not get a spacer made to go in the centre of the caliper in that gap to widen them up to fit car discs? cant see why this wouldnt work. mine had standard tociko 6 pots on but i've seen a few track bikes with pretech calipers fitted, these thinks are fookin awesome on bikes and lighter than stock.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CBR-900-Fireblade-Pretech-Big-Brake-Conversion-/250710868905?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a5f8843a9

Thanks Alan, that's very useful information. I haven't heard of Pretech before, but I shall do some investigation.

Rather than spacing the caliper to fit a car disc, the plan is to machine a steel disc to suit the caliper. The disc can be replaced frequently if that proves necessary.

Alternatively I need to look into whether there's a way of mounting a suitable sized motorcycle disc onto a bell to suit a car hub......

mowgli

22-10-10, 05:17 PM

colin. you could go the other way, and actually cut material from the pad & leave the disc intact... for the miles you do in a season, i think they'd last quite well

novarally

22-10-10, 05:35 PM

colin. you could go the other way, and actually cut material from the pad & leave the disc intact... for the miles you do in a season, i think they'd last quite well

Fair point, thanks.

I'm still tempted to get a thin disc machined though, just to save the weight.

mowgli

22-10-10, 05:43 PM

i like the idea of about 9mm of factory disc safely stopping you, but even the factory discs have a wear tolerance, i have got a disc catalogue somewhere, but i haven't seen it for years... if i can find it, i'll try to find something the right size.

novarally

23-10-10, 10:42 PM

i've rebuilt bike calipers before, had a gsxr with 6 pots on, the calipers split in halp with only o-rings to seal them where the flid passes from side to side. could you not get a spacer made to go in the centre of the caliper in that gap to widen them up to fit car discs? cant see why this wouldnt work. mine had standard tociko 6 pots on but i've seen a few track bikes with pretech calipers fitted, these thinks are fookin awesome on bikes and lighter than stock.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CBR-900-Fireblade-Pretech-Big-Brake-Conversion-/250710868905?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3a5f8843a9

Thanks to Alan (I may not be thanking him before long!!), I have ended up buying those Pretech 6-pot calipers and discs off EBAY;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/B4MNQmwEWkKGrHqVikEyeM0s52BMo6YwcD1_35.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/B4MNZ3gCGkKGrHqNi8Eyd1kBGzLBMo6ZJSCRQ_35.jpg

Next comes the small matter of trying to make them fit and work on Nova hubs.............

stupot89

23-10-10, 11:06 PM

i bet they cost a pretty penny colin

Ben

24-10-10, 10:10 AM

i bet they cost a pretty penny colin

Ebay link is in post, £225 +pp which for some 6pot brakes is a snip lol

novarally

24-10-10, 05:53 PM

Ebay link is in post, £225 +pp which for some 6pot brakes is a snip lol

Seemed cheap to me, and if they can't be fitted on the Nova I'll be forced to buy a Fireblade and put them on that.

stupot89

24-10-10, 08:50 PM

didnt see the link :roll:

Seemed cheap to me, and if they can't be fitted on the Nova I'll be forced to buy a Fireblade and put them on that.

there is a fireblade for sale on here iirc

novarally

26-10-10, 11:35 AM

Just got the brakes, and had a bit of a mock up. The discs are 320mm diameter, and weigh just 1.5kg each (compared to 4.2kg each for my current 247 x 20 discs).

One 6-pot caliper with the pads weighs in at 1.07kg - that is nearly 1kg EACH lighter than my Wilwoods which are 2.048kg.

So potentially if I could get these brakes to fit and work, I'd see a total saving of circa 7kg.

Some photos...........

No chance of fitting these discs with 13" wheels!!

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-21.jpg

But with 15" rims (which is what I normally use on the front), they will just about fit;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-24.jpg

Disc mocked up on the Nova upright;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-18.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-18.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-19.jpg

Could it work? Mounting the disc assembly directly to the drive flange? Or via a spacer/bell of some sort?

I can't see why it wouldn't, but I need to seek expert advice.

Welsh Dan

26-10-10, 11:51 AM

Do any of the existing holes in the disc overlap the nova 4x100 holes?

novarally

26-10-10, 11:55 AM

Do any of the existing holes in the disc overlap the nova 4x100 holes?

Didn't check that yet, but there are various solutions which could overcome that if it's an issue.

Ben

26-10-10, 12:24 PM

novarally

26-10-10, 12:46 PM

i cant forsee too many fitting issues after all a lot of the off the shelf brake kits are not specific as you know.

My question is the effciency of them on a car, but suppose your car weighing in around 500kg's doing around 60-100mph flat out? compared to a bike about 200kg's doing 200mph is not far off!

That's the logic I'm working with, although whether it's sound physics I don't know.

The larger diameter would have a greater mechanical advantage as well, but anyone who can do the maths or can put the question to someone who can (MK999?), please do!

bmw156

26-10-10, 12:49 PM

That motorbrake idea is a contender for most stupid post of the year.

5mm thick disc Bike brakes on a car lmfao

from a few pages back, aimed at me.

eat your words paul!

great work colin. keep it up :)
the brakes look good, and they should fit.

Welsh Dan

26-10-10, 12:54 PM

i cant forsee too many fitting issues after all a lot of the off the shelf brake kits are not specific as you know.

My question is the effciency of them on a car, but suppose your car weighing in around 500kg's doing around 60-100mph flat out? compared to a bike about 200kg's doing 200mph is not far off!

Actually a 500kg car doing 100mph has about 60% of the kinetic energy of a 200kg bike doing 200mph. :)

bmw156

26-10-10, 01:01 PM

http://www.wrc-cosworth.org/tech/brakes/brakecalculation.html

that might help you :)

novarally

26-10-10, 01:12 PM

Actually a 500kg car doing 100mph has about 60% of the kinetic energy of a 200kg bike doing 200mph. :)

I suppose the bigger question is whether the amount of heat generated by the greater mass of a car would be too much for them to handle.

mowgli

26-10-10, 01:17 PM

stock 236 solids skimmed to minimum thickness & either make caliper spacers or as previously said, cut down the pads will cut the weight, and keep the heat in the brakes. tbh you could probably machine them down further as they aren't expected to carry granny & her shopping & tow a trailer......

bmw156

26-10-10, 01:34 PM

Colin, i think your on the money, about the larger mass of car putting to much heat into the discs.

also, another point, is if they were genius, magical answers to saving weight, surly the locost/westy boys would be all over them?

novarally

26-10-10, 01:44 PM

novarally

26-10-10, 01:46 PM

also, another point, is if they were genius, magical answers to saving weight, surly the locost/westy boys would be all over them?

It's true I've never seen them used on LoCaterFields.

I still haven't managed to find out what the Grasstrack cars are using for discs on the front. Some of them are definitely using bike calipers though.

mowgli

26-10-10, 01:52 PM

it probably won't colin, but by the time you have a boss made to fit the disc to the hub face, it will weigh more. ps. it does need to be strong, as it does the majority of the braking.....

mowgli

26-10-10, 01:55 PM

It's true I've never seen them used on LoCaterFields.

I still haven't managed to find out what the Grasstrack cars are using for discs on the front. Some of them are definitely using bike calipers though.

grass trackers don't exactly need to slow down in a race....

MK999

26-10-10, 02:13 PM

The larger diameter would have a greater mechanical advantage as well, but anyone who can do the maths or can put the question to someone who can (MK999?), please do!

Braking efficiency is massively complex as it depends on the weight, CoG and geometry of the vehicle and the tyres grip levels etc, I do know someone who made a spreadsheet to calculate it as a point of interest but he's now somewhat busy for a year with Force India... lol

Even the spreadsheet was fairly rough though, and it was a good 2 pages or so of various measurements which would be hard to collect without modelling the car from scratch in it's entirety.

Your main 'foe' against them working is the heat buildup though imo, no large brakes have totally fallen over because they cant exert enough force to stop to my knowledge.

Also the KE might not be huge, but the inertia you're fighting will be considerably larger than a bike.

mowgli

26-10-10, 02:16 PM

short runs, maybe 10 braking efforts per run, only a couple of them will be full on.. as a guess.. keeping heat in might be more of an issue...

novarally

26-10-10, 02:22 PM

it probably won't colin, but by the time you have a boss made to fit the disc to the hub face, it will weigh more. ps. it does need to be strong, as it does the majority of the braking.....

Standard 236mm solid disc is 2.9kg.

Yes, I think the bike disc would need some sort of mounting bell, which will add weight.

MK999

26-10-10, 02:35 PM

the discs are heated at the surface, and this is not a problem where you have some sort of thickness to it, the outside of the disc may well be hot, but it dissipates into the discs, the bike discs are just over 1.3rd of the weight and higher diameter, so they are considerably thinner, and imo you're going to get the heat from both sides combining in the middle of the disc instead of dissipating effectively through it's thickness, and from there the heat issue is going to be rough.

and if during braking in competition only 8 out of 10 are at full effort something is going wrong somewhere...

mowgli

26-10-10, 02:39 PM

i mean, just slowing slightly, setting up for a corner as opposed to slowing to a full stop. i know each braking movement will be hard, but the effort to scrub 10mph off is a lot less than scrubbing off 100mph.

MK999

26-10-10, 03:02 PM

Ah ok, but still I think heat is gonna be an issue, for your example of slowing down 10mph, assuming a total conversion from KE to heat energy (i.e ignoring any that gets converted to sound etc) you heat the discs by about 40c, now I'm not sure what kind of temperature brake fade kicks in but brake fluid boils at around 300, after its travelled into the brake system, so assuming your 10 runs you haven't got any room for any high speed to low braking runs.

edit: and that's assuming the heat is dissipated perfectly.

Stuart

26-10-10, 03:28 PM

MK999

26-10-10, 04:10 PM

the discs can get as hot as you like.... its the pads and fluid that will suffer if you dont get the right compounds.

The mass of the vehicle is mostly irrelevant as said the KE is what you are dumping as heat, and then the interia of the drive train (that might be a problem).

I reckon, give it a go with some high end pads and see how it goes

I would have thought it's the heat of the discs that largely decides how much the pads break down into the gas that iirc, causes brake fade? Kinda like touching water with a heated paperclip, or a lump of steel, both still bubble at their surfaces, granted the paperclip cools faster as well though.

The mass (as a function of velocity) decides the KE though and also I meant the inertia of the vehicle more than the rotating inertia, so that's 2 direct relationships to mass that effect braking, calling it irrelevant is a bit extreme imo, it's one of the main factors that effect braking requirements!

It may not have come across in my posts, but I'm all for giving it a go, but my prediction is heat is an issue, and either extra cooling needs to be employed, or a beefier disc used.

Ben

26-10-10, 04:26 PM

Colin

How about mocking up some fitting then trialing them on a breaker you have in on a long straight at lower speeds to start with, if it ccould handle say the speed/stopping of an xe nova weighing around 80kg's then it will cope with your lightweight model.

I wouldnt fancy trialing it in a competition!

burgo

26-10-10, 08:34 PM

making the mounting bell out of ally will help dissipating a bit of heat. i really cant see heat beaing a huge problem though. you have got a much bigger surface area than a standard disk to heat up first

novarally

27-10-10, 01:39 PM

More weight saving measures..........

Front towing eye removed (weight 230g) and will be replaced by an alloy one at 90g;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-22.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/sub3030-rd.jpg

And I'm now in the process of removing the double skinned bit in the boot which normally houses the tailgate lock etc. First time using a spot weld drill, so a few blunders so far where I've drilled right through!;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-25.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-19.jpg

bmw156

27-10-10, 02:19 PM

good idea batman

have the supports in the roof gone?

and the floor supports? like below

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-3.jpg

L14MNP

27-10-10, 02:55 PM

He has to leave the seat rails in mate. IIRC he reinstated the rest of them after someone complained/commented on them being absent.

Looks great as usual Colin, and as Tesco says 'Every little helps'!

You may have wanted to practice on a scrap shell before attacking your favourite toy (assumes Escort is sold) with the spot weld drill bit though! I hope it's came out OK.

Liam.

novarally

27-10-10, 03:37 PM

You may have wanted to practice on a scrap shell before attacking your favourite toy (assumes Escort is sold) with the spot weld drill bit though! I hope it's came out OK.

Liam.

I actually did have a practice first!

But I'm still finding it hard to drill through enough to cut the weld, but not through the second skin. It's no great worry though, more holes = more lightness.

L14MNP

27-10-10, 03:43 PM

Very true about the holes. I done similar when removing side impact bars from a door skin. I had to go right through one side of the skin to free the bar (obviously). The holes look good and as you say add lightness, which on your car is essential. I just accepted it as pretty good fortune. lol

Are you using a flat ended spot weld drill or one of the hole cutter affairs mate?

novarally

27-10-10, 05:21 PM

Are you using a flat ended spot weld drill or one of the hole cutter affairs mate?

I've got both types.

The one that looks like a miniature hole cutter is pointless, you might as well just put an ordinary drill through both skins.

The flat ended one is a bit better, you seem to have more control with that type, but it's not easy to get right every time.

Iain

27-10-10, 07:27 PM

I agree the flat ended normal drillbit style one is pretty good, I found drilling spotwelds quite fun when it goes right.

You can save over 500g by drilling off the seatbelt spreader plates in the B and C pillars, if they haven't already been removed.

MK999

27-10-10, 07:29 PM

Iain

27-10-10, 07:31 PM

Oh, didn't realise. C pillar ones should be ok though?

novarally

27-10-10, 10:33 PM

Oh, didn't realise. C pillar ones should be ok though?

C pillar ones are fair game, and were removed when the car was built 10 years ago.

AlanH

28-10-10, 05:07 PM

Thanks to Alan (I may not be thanking him before long!!), I have ended up buying those Pretech 6-pot calipers and discs off EBAY;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/B4MNQmwEWkKGrHqVikEyeM0s52BMo6YwcD1_35.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/B4MNZ3gCGkKGrHqNi8Eyd1kBGzLBMo6ZJSCRQ_35.jpg

Next comes the small matter of trying to make them fit and work on Nova hubs.............

should have bought r1 ones, then if they didnt fit i'd buy them for mine lol
seriously tho they're a nice piece of kit, hope they work out for you, cheap alternative and masive weight saving

novarally

30-10-10, 04:29 PM

New front towing eye now fitted;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-23.jpg

And rear one removed and replaced with the alloy version;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-15.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/018-13.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/019-15.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/022-6.jpg

There's still a bit more material to be removed from the bumper to get it fitting better, and more metal to come off the chassis rail where it was mounted. But already I have a weight saving of 350g, a good result for a tow eye.

And now the pile of scrap from removing the double skinning on the tailgate aperture;

I got fed up with the spot weld drill, and resorted to the angle grinder, so there is a fair bit of tidying up to do;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/020-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/021-10.jpg

Final part of this update goes with a big 'Thanks' to Ian Bennett (not sure of his User ID on here), an excellent Graphic Designer who has done these stickers for the front headlamps for me;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/015-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-13.jpg

I'm well pleased with them, and I think they'll look excellent on the car. Ian is also sorting me out some sticker replicas of the rear lights.

If anyone needs any graphics doing, I can definitely recommend Ian's work.

mk1nova_rich

30-10-10, 05:22 PM

novarally

30-10-10, 05:40 PM

them graphics look fantastic and should be a nice touch to the car, so well done to Ian. The towing eyes look good too Colin... where did you get them from as my chassis rail around the rear towing eye is a bit crusty to say the least?!

The tow eyes are from DSN Classics;

http://www.dsnclassics.co.uk/

Really impressive service from them, and the parts are lovely quality.

scott.parker

30-10-10, 06:43 PM

Good saving there Colin, and i just could help but laugh at them headlight stickers, there excellent!

Scott

mowgli

30-10-10, 07:01 PM

i'm really liking the stickers too....... i was trying to work out how to get a good pic of them with my shonky camera, i'm glad someone with skills did such a great job on them.

colin, there really can't be much more weight to get out of the car, surely....

apart from going extreme with the acid dipping, the shell must be crazy light now.

scott.parker

30-10-10, 07:15 PM

Mowgli are you being coy with your words, and trying not to upset Colin, as i think we all know a good way of drooping some wight to get our cars quicker...

mowgli

30-10-10, 07:17 PM

i already know colin is working on the other, i was actually openly wondering just how much more weight could possibly be taken from the shell, and other metal bits... paper mache bumpers perhaps?? really thin vac form sheet bumpers & panels?

novarally

30-10-10, 07:18 PM

colin, there really can't be much more weight to get out of the car, surely....

apart from going extreme with the acid dipping, the shell must be crazy light now.

You're right, there's not much more weight which can come out of the shell itself, I'm nearly done with that now.

I am considering having it dipped and re-painted though, partly to tidy it all up, partly to save a little weight, but mostly to put my own 'stamp' on it.

Only trouble is I keep changing my mind as to what colour I would do it......

There's a fair bit more weight still to be saved in other areas though;

1. Bonded in windows all round (losing the rubber seals) - approx. 4kg

2. The lighter wheels I am having made - circa 8kg

3. Motorcycle front brakes (if that works) - 7kg

4. Tubular exhaust manifold instead of cast iron - maybe 2kg

5. Fibreglass doors arriving soon - hopefully 5kg

6. Assorted ideas I have; alloy throttle pedal, machine down the CV joints, lighten the rear beam, electric water pump, lightweight starter motor

7. Numerous titanium bits; flywheel, anti-roll bars, tie bars, driveshafts, drive flanges (all these depend on my lottery numbers coming up).

I'm hoping to see 570kg on my scales soon.

scott.parker

30-10-10, 07:24 PM

mowgli

30-10-10, 07:24 PM

is there a minimum material spec for the windows?

novarally

30-10-10, 07:34 PM

is there a minimum material spec for the windows?

It's interesting you should mention that. I always thought it was 4mm, same as rally cars, but I've been looking through the 'Blue Book' and there's no reference to minimum thickness at all! Great news as I want to replace the windows with bonded in anyway.

What are your thoughts for material then Mowgli?

Obviously it needs to be thick enough not to deform, so a sheet of cellophane is out........and it has to look right.

novarally

30-10-10, 07:35 PM

Sodding hell you really are going for it then mate, fair play, i hope you can get it that light i will be very impressed..

PS: i was not trying to offend was meant in jest the wight loss comment, it worked for me! lol

Scott

None taken Scott. I've made a little progress on myself in that direction (a few kgs down!), but it's not proving as easy as taking it off the car.

scott.parker

30-10-10, 07:46 PM

I fitted 4mm Plexiglas in rear boot aperture (this is the same pollycarb and wont discolor etc) but you can get sheet form Plexiglas in 2-3mm i think i have some 3mm somewhere, enough to do the rear quarters! it's fairly cheep too, or you can get it from say an exhibition stand manufacture, as that how i got mine, was working at a place and got it for free!

Serch on google.. http://www.uk.best-price.com/search/landing/query/plexiglass+sheets/s/google/cv/1194501/adid/3542644/koid/3525096778/

Scott

mowgli

30-10-10, 07:47 PM

nova ian

30-10-10, 08:30 PM

Nice to meet you today Colin, car is a very impressive piece of kit. Glad your happy with the graphics, thanks alot :)

Many thanks
Ian

Ben

31-10-10, 06:44 PM

Colin, go with something similar to your white yellow and grey scheme!

Graeme

31-10-10, 06:47 PM

/\/\ agreed

novarally

01-11-10, 11:01 AM

i was thinking of 2mm polycarbonate.... the curve of the car should just about hold it solid, but to be honest, i can't imagine a little rattle from the back would be heard in the full flight of a hill climb...

i was pondering if it could be vacformed for bumpers & wings too.....

i know really thin polycarb is used for rc cars, and there was a lotus elise that had some for its bodywork.. dunno what vacform of big parts costs though.

I had a chat today with the ever helpful Paul at 'Plastics 4 Performance', and he reckoned 2mm will be OK for the rear quarter and door windows.

But he suggests 3mm for the tailgate window.

MK999

01-11-10, 11:04 AM

I had a chat today with the ever helpful Paul at 'Plastics 4 Performance', and he reckoned 2mm will be OK for the rear quarter and door windows.

But he suggests 3mm for the tailgate window.

see if it's worthwhile weight wise to go for 2mm, but with a couple of aluminium bars running down the window to hold it in place

mowgli

01-11-10, 11:11 AM

if it is curved & bonded, then sod it, it'll do.. the only time the rear windows will get stress is when colin slams the door

Welsh Dan

01-11-10, 11:23 AM

Seeing as I don't know the motorsport rules & regs, I'll ask the obvious question, do you need to have rear & side windows at all?

novarally

01-11-10, 11:39 AM

Seeing as I don't know the motorsport rules & regs, I'll ask the obvious question, do you need to have rear & side windows at all?

You do, yes.

scott.parker

01-11-10, 05:42 PM

So i was wrong to suggest the 2-3mm Plexiglas then??

blue_peg_16v

01-11-10, 07:54 PM

jesus this car is going to be feather light, didnt some hatches have a skiny rear bumper like the saloon that could save a couple of grams

novarally

08-11-10, 12:46 PM

I would have thought it's the heat of the discs that largely decides how much the pads break down into the gas that iirc, causes brake fade? Kinda like touching water with a heated paperclip, or a lump of steel, both still bubble at their surfaces, granted the paperclip cools faster as well though.

The mass (as a function of velocity) decides the KE though and also I meant the inertia of the vehicle more than the rotating inertia, so that's 2 direct relationships to mass that effect braking, calling it irrelevant is a bit extreme imo, it's one of the main factors that effect braking requirements!

It may not have come across in my posts, but I'm all for giving it a go, but my prediction is heat is an issue, and either extra cooling needs to be employed, or a beefier disc used.

I've spent a good deal of time trying to track down the right motorcycle disc and bell assembly to suit my plans, but have drawn a bit of a blank as most bikes seem to use a disc of roughly 320mm.

I want to use a disc of (roughly) 280mm.

But today I've been speaking to a company who will custom make me a solid disc and alloy bell to whatever size and thickness I want.

I asked for a price on a 280mm x 5mm cross-drilled disc, and they can do that, complete with a custom alloy mounting bell for £130 each, which has got to be a bargain.

Weight-wise the alloy bell is going to be roughly 350g, and the disc itself around 1.6kg (cast iron, as opposed to the stainless steel which bikes use), so it's still going to be a huge weight saving, and will fit without any messing about. Just leaves the caliper mounting bracket to sort out.

Edd

08-11-10, 01:39 PM

maybe only a small weight saving but i think that the early wiper motor you have on there is heavier than the late one

plus with the late one you could get a alloy base plate made up

just an idea

mowgli

08-11-10, 01:53 PM

colin, i thought you were going for really small wheels..... like the mini boys use???

novarally

08-11-10, 02:09 PM

colin, i thought you were going for really small wheels..... like the mini boys use???

Some of the Mini's use 10" wheels, and some of them 13".

I'm going to be using 13" (which will accomdate a 280mm disc and motorcycle caliper).

I did think about using 10" on the Nova, but I think it might look very silly, and will upset all the geometry no doubt.

scott.parker

08-11-10, 02:13 PM

Well 13" with low profiles will get it up to speed quite quickly, i think a 10" wheel with low profile tyres would possibly a bit to under geared even for sprinting, no?

Cant wait to see some updates.

Scott

Andy_L

08-11-10, 09:21 PM

Sorry a 280mmx5mm disc

Is that a typo as that is super super thin?

scott.parker

08-11-10, 09:35 PM

Probably not mate, as there light weight bike disks.

Pistol Pete

08-11-10, 09:41 PM

Sorry a 280mmx5mm disc

Is that a typo as that is super super thin?

As Scott says, bike discs being used. Few pics a few posts back

Some serious weight saving going on here Colin. Will be interesting to see the figure at the final weigh in lol

david dixon

08-11-10, 11:45 PM

Fantastic work, i have always liked this nova!

David.

novarally

09-11-10, 06:24 PM

Sorry a 280mmx5mm disc

Is that a typo as that is super super thin?

Yes, that's the size I'm going to be using, it's not a typo!

Some samples of the brake discs that the company I'm getting to make them have done previously;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/020xKsWncPS.jpg

novarally

27-11-10, 06:20 PM

Been a little while since I updated, but there has been some work going on.

Yesterday I welded some tubes into the sills to accept my sill stands. I've actually added a little weight with these!

But it will make working on the car so much more convenient, at least until the day I get my 2-post lift installed (which is a long way off).

Whilst I was busy with the grinder I also removed the extra metal plates that fix the rear towing eye to the chassis rail. An awful lot of work for almost no weight loss!

Dan at ACW Motorsport Plastics kindly sorted me out with a set of 2mm polycarbonate windows, which I need to get fitted. These will be bonded directly to the shell, so I can do away with the rubber seals and save some weight.

I'll add some photos soon.

Paul

27-11-10, 06:58 PM

Can you post pics of how youve done the sill stands please

Mike

27-11-10, 07:00 PM

Can you post pics of how youve done the sill stands please

Just drill through the outer sill skin & through the inner sill box section, weld them in, weld a blanking plate over the "open" end of the tube, and a surround plate (strengthening plate) if you think youll need them.

Ive prolly got some pics somewhere but theyll be on a 106, 205 or possibly a C2 lol

Edit:

Bottom centre of pic
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/Random/c2r22009.jpg

Bottom of B pillar cage leg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/Random/c2r22009-15.jpg

novarally

27-11-10, 07:27 PM

Can you post pics of how youve done the sill stands please

Will do Paul, my Nova is sat in a friends workshop until I go and collect it on Monday, as I was using his 4 post lift to make my life easier.

The way Mike has described is largely how I've done it, except I've linked the tubes up to the 'feet' of the roll cage.

Photos on Monday.

novarally

01-12-10, 02:45 PM

As promised, a few photos of the sill stand tubes.

Due to the design of the roll cage the tubes have simply been bolted through on the inside, in order to avoid cutting and welding of the roll cage feet.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-26.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-30.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-21.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-25.jpg

I will of course be cutting the bolts to the correct length!

NOV4_SPORT

01-12-10, 03:15 PM

I like the idea of the sill stands, must make life easier and the car more stable when its up off the ground

iain

mowgli

01-12-10, 03:40 PM

now, something like a motorbike hoist but on a smaller scale would be really cool.... with a scissor action & a hydraulic jack or even a big lever.

AlanH

05-12-10, 05:54 PM

those bike brakes are going to look awesome, discs are a steal at that price imo. you decided on which 13" wheels yet?

Mike

05-12-10, 06:00 PM

Sill stands are fecking well handy, just need a Bilstien quick lift to finish it off now Colin?

Paul

05-12-10, 06:07 PM

Thanks very much for pics, most helpful

novarally

07-12-10, 10:07 AM

Sill stands are fecking well handy, just need a Bilstien quick lift to finish it off now Colin?

I'm going to have to buy one. None of my normal trolley jacks will lift the car high enough to get the sill stands in place.

And my long-chassis high lift trolley jack weighs far too much to be carting along to race meetings. So I shall have to invest in a 'monkey on a stick' Bilstein style jack.

Any links welcome for places that sell them please!

fearless

07-12-10, 07:50 PM

A few options here Colin

http://www.motorsport-tools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17951

But I think even the £1000 jack is out of your price range !!! :)

Dave

novarally

08-12-10, 10:11 AM

A few options here Colin

http://www.motorsport-tools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17951

But I think even the £1000 jack is out of your price range !!! :)

Dave

Yes, I'd seen that one already Dave, it does look nice, but how the hell they can justify that sort of price tag I don't know.

Stick the letters 'WRC' on any product and multiply the price by a factor of 10..........

mowgli

08-12-10, 10:25 AM

bmw156

08-12-10, 12:26 PM

mowgli i thought they were these.

http://ramsport.com/shop/images/Stringing%20kit%20004.jpg

but i guess they are on about this
http://www.croyde-bay.com/tr-june-2005/tr-sill-jack-2.jpg

mowgli

08-12-10, 12:31 PM

it looks just like a morris minor jacking point

bmw156

08-12-10, 12:38 PM

and a chevette, but a chevette isnt in the sill lol.

Mike

08-12-10, 08:26 PM

Colin, I do happen to have a proper Bilstien quick lift in my possesion lol Mr Shirlaw had one up on his site for £80 a week or so ago aswell but I dont know if its still there TBH.

novarally

08-12-10, 09:16 PM

colin, are you meant to use the pipes for jacking or for actual stands?? i'm trying to get my head round how they work exactly.

if you made something out of metal tube with an L shape and put a couple of trolley wheels on the bottom corner of the L, considering the max weight per side is about 330kg, with an 8:1 mechanical advantage, you could easily lever the car up.

The tubes in the sills are for stands, I will post a picture up soon of the car suspended up in the air on the 4 stands.

I've got this 3-legged set of stands for it;

http://www.motordrive.com/acatalog/Accessories.html

The problem is getting the car up as high as it needs to go, without the use of a heavyweight long chassis trolley jack.

The Bilstein-type quick lift jacks (originally developed for use on VW Beetles in the 30's/40's) would get it up high enough, but it would also be occupying one of the sill tubes, so that won't work.

I think I will have to accept that the sill stands can only be used in the workshop at home, unless I can be bothered to lug the big trolley jack along to race meetings.

mowgli

08-12-10, 09:18 PM

i'll draw a piccy & send it over to you....roughly what sort of sill to floor clearance do you have, i'll do some sums.

burgo

08-12-10, 09:26 PM

is it not possible to just fit a jack tube as well? it only needs to be one more at the front of the sill either side

Mike

08-12-10, 09:30 PM

Or just change the jacking pin on a quick lift to an L shaped bracket?

novarally

11-12-10, 06:10 PM

If anyone fancies fitting a set of tubes into their sills, I have a complete set of tubes (20mm diameter) together with the strengthening plates for sale;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-27.jpg

The tubes are already capped off at one end so no need to worry about water/dirt ingress into the car.

novarally

11-12-10, 07:10 PM

I'm on a photo/info. hunt.

Has anybody got any photos (or actual personal experience) of cutting the complete boot floor out of a Nova hatch?

NOTE; I'm not just talking about removing the spare wheel well!

I'm thinking about removing the whole boot floor (due to race regulations it won't be able to be removed any further forward than the centres of the rear wheels).

I want to see if, and how other people have gone about it, and how they've filled the hole that remains.

I might also remove a section of the inner wheel arches (again, only as far as the wheel centres).

I'm going to cut out a similar area from a scrap Nova shell tomorrow and see how much it weighs, out of curiosity.

But making it look nice afterwards will be the big issue, unless of course I get someone to take a mould of the area to be removed and then make up a replacement 'cover' in carbon fibre.

burgo

11-12-10, 09:05 PM

not a hatchback but you get the idea, i cant remember if its 1 or 2mm i used

novarally

11-12-10, 09:29 PM

not a hatchback but you get the idea, i cant remember if its 1 or 2mm i used

Was there meant to be a photo with that post Burgo?

Mazz

11-12-10, 09:44 PM

/me shakes his head...

burgo

11-12-10, 09:47 PM

wow i fail

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147187&page=15

The Simps

12-12-10, 12:23 AM

Definately some weight to be saved colin. Because of its shape the wheel well is actually quite heavy.

burgo

12-12-10, 10:53 AM

Definately some weight to be saved colin. Because of its shape the wheel well is actually quite heavy.i found i much lighter than i expected actually, but the ally sheet is still lighter blatantly

MK999

12-12-10, 02:06 PM

Definately some weight to be saved colin. Because of its shape the wheel well is actually quite heavy.

It also gets in the way of the gearbox.

You finished yours yet? lol

mowgli

12-12-10, 03:49 PM

the trouble is that colin can't remove any metal from in front of the axle centreline, so only a bit of it can be removed...

there is some suggestion that it might have a negative effect on aero, as with that bit of the floor flattened out, the back bumper becomes an air dam, but i'm not sure how much of a problem it would be.. i did read somewhere (probably an old CCC) about fitting an upside down v shaped gurney flap in front of the rear wheels will help pull the car downwards by creating a negative pressure area behind it, but again, i'm not sure how much use it would be cos you need the car to be fairly robust..

novarally

12-12-10, 04:39 PM

i found i much lighter than i expected actually, but the ally sheet is still lighter blatantly

Thanks Burgo, very useful.

I did a test removal today;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-28.jpg

That's as much of the boot floor as I am allowed to remove (without chopping out the chassis rails as well of course!).

The piece removed is 4.5kg, so there's no doubt replacing it with a sheet of carbon fibre or aluminium will save a useful chunk.

I've also picked up some Compomotive Turbo split rim wheels, 8" and 10" wide. As these pictures show, the 10" wheels (on the rear) are way too wide for the job, even on the test Nova shell which already has wide arches on it;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/006-23.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-26.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-31.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-22.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/008-16.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-17.jpg

At least it gives me some opportunity to experiment with different widths and offsets before I get a set of wheels made to my specification.

Of course the other option would be to run the 10" wheels at the front, and the 8" on the rear, but how well (badly) it would steer and handle remains to be seen.

db_1.2

12-12-10, 04:59 PM

Could you not reverse the barrel of the rim on the insert?

Cle

12-12-10, 05:02 PM

Those wheels look amazing :thumb:

bmw156

12-12-10, 05:39 PM

Could you not reverse the barrel of the rim on the insert?

why would he bother, when he can get bits made t the size he wants lol.

its the whole idea of a split rim :)

stupot89

12-12-10, 05:56 PM

if you were going to keep them wheel compomotive will sell the outer rims seperately

novarally

12-12-10, 06:06 PM

if you were going to keep them wheel compomotive will sell the outer rims seperately

Yes, they will, and there are also a fair number of them available secondhand.

I really like the style of the Compomotive Turbo rims, so I may yet end up keeping them and modifying the width/offset.

The only drawback to these wheels is that you can't see the brakes through them, and as I've done some rather unusual modifications in that area, it would be nice if they were shown off!

I've got some Image split rims coming on a spaceframe XE Mini I've bought this week, so I will also be experimenting with the fit of those on the Nova;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/B-bfZzBmkKGrHqFlUEyjC05mBM8qEBnddQ_3.jpg

Mike

12-12-10, 06:10 PM

I used to work with the daughter of the owner of Image wheels many many moons ago.

novarally

15-12-10, 07:44 PM

I dropped off the Nova with Andrew Bradley at BTEC Racing last week, for him to give the engine a check over.

Andrew actually built the car and the engine originally.

I was a little concerned that it might be getting old and a bit down on power, but he ran it up on the rolling road today and it showed 177 bhp.

That's compared to the 162 bhp it recorded back in the Summer (on the same rolling road).

Which just goes to show what a difference air temperature makes on a turbocharged car!

As a result I am now going to fit an intercooler spray system to cool it all down. It's something I'd been thinking about doing for a while, it was very effective on my Escort Cosworth.

Andrew is also removing the turbo to check it over, and we may well replace it with something more modern that can hold boost better, there are definite signs of age on it, although it is 10 years old so it's no surprise.

Aside from the engine work, the new front discs/bells and mounting brackets for the 6-pot motorcycle calipers should be ready by Xmas, so I can get some testing done on those in good time.

Not far off the end of 2010, and the hillclimb/sprint season will be kicking off in early April, so time is ticking.......

Mazz

15-12-10, 07:51 PM

177bhp, impressive stuff!

bmw156

15-12-10, 08:05 PM

good times colin.
some good figures as well!

BRoadGhost

15-12-10, 08:18 PM

Was just thinking Colin ~ As the chassis rails, rear shockers back, are only for safety in a rear / side impact you could remove those as the cage ties the back together nicely anyway?

Connor

15-12-10, 08:30 PM

Good result on the rr figures colin.
Always good to know that your engine is still healthy

peester

15-12-10, 08:33 PM

177 bhp -per-litre is more impressive, and itll be well over 200, maybe 220-ish per ton..?

burgo

15-12-10, 09:18 PM

177 bhp -per-litre is more impressive, and itll be well over 200, maybe 220-ish per ton..?if the car weighs 560kgs its alot more than that. about 320ish

novarally

15-12-10, 10:24 PM

Was just thinking Colin ~ As the chassis rails, rear shockers back, are only for safety in a rear / side impact you could remove those as the cage ties the back together nicely anyway?

I've been thinking precisely the same thing, just got to work out how much I can get away with cutting out, and how to tidy it all up again afterwards.

Graeme

15-12-10, 10:32 PM

Is there a listing for the events you'll be running the car in Colin, I'd really like to see it compete

dj_wudgey

15-12-10, 10:48 PM

im feeling that way aswell graeme i want to see this wicked piece off kit in action!!

bmw156

15-12-10, 10:58 PM

just throwing another idea out there, depending on regs etc.

could you chop on this line somewhere because its outside the suspension points and then have a weird backend or a FG back end? im not sure of a solution but it sure is weight saved.

and what about a space frame front end?
or cutting out the inner wings like on a corsa

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/bmw156/003-31.jpg

novarally

16-12-10, 08:26 AM

Is there a listing for the events you'll be running the car in Colin, I'd really like to see it compete

At this early stage I have committed only to the Gurston Down Championship;

www.gurstondown.org (http://www.gurstondown.org)

There's a full list of dates on there, and I will be attending all of them. Gurston is close to Salisbury in Wiltshire.

I will be doing some other events, Harewood near Leeds is the most likely, but if I can afford the time and expense I also want to get to Loton Park (Shrewsbury area), Thoresby Park (Mansfield) and the sprint at Cadwell Park.

I'll update on where and when throughout the year.

Southie

16-12-10, 08:44 AM

I will be doing some other events, Harewood near Leeds is the most likely, but if I can afford the time and expense I also want to get to Loton Park (Shrewsbury area), Thoresby Park (Mansfield) and the sprint at Cadwell Park.

I'll update on where and when throughout the year.
A guy I know does various hill climb events at Harewood so I'll hopefully see yours in action. This his his btw.

http://www.rallyaround.co.uk/gallery/scaler.php?picture=Harewood%20Hillclimb%20Open%20M eeting%208-5-10%2FPETE%20SPENCER%20PEUGEOT%20205%20GTi%203.jpg&size=2

cuatrolatas

17-12-10, 12:00 PM

Very very fat this nova, awesome, and compomotive wheels looks very well, but i think 10" are excesive

novarally

21-12-10, 11:58 AM

I was just looking for something via Google, and came across this website with some pictures of my Nova on it;

http://www.jsteele.co.uk/Motorsport/Interesting%20Hillclimb%20Cars/Nova%201L%20turbo/index.html

These were from the days when Andrew Bradley still owned and drove it.

mowgli

21-12-10, 02:24 PM

if the car weighs 560kgs its alot more than that. about 320ish then add 100kg for driver & fuel

burgo

21-12-10, 08:13 PM

then add 100kg for driver & fuelpower to weight ratio stats are never worked out with the driver counted so for comparison purposes it is 320ish

mowgli

21-12-10, 08:20 PM

i know they aren't, and thus they are a crap measure of performance..... just like american hp figures, when they actually powered everything on the engine, cam, water pump, oil pump etc... separately & got the gross hp figure... which is why most muscle cars are a let down.....

AlanH

21-12-10, 09:02 PM

Thanks Burgo, very useful.

I did a test removal today;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-26.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-31.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-22.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/008-16.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/007-17.jpg

want to sell the widearch kit off that? know someone who will be very interested

MARTIN KELSON

21-12-10, 09:17 PM

I will be doing some other events, Harewood near Leeds is the most likely, but if I can afford the time and expense I also want to get to Loton Park (Shrewsbury area), Thoresby Park (Mansfield) and the sprint at Cadwell Park.

I'll update on where and when throughout the year.

Ooh if your doing Loton i need to come take a look.

Only half hour for me in Telford. I usually pop along once or twice a year for a look at Loton.

novarally

21-12-10, 09:22 PM

want to sell the widearch kit off that? know someone who will be very interested

Drop me an e-mail - happy to sell it.

novarally

24-12-10, 08:42 AM

My Xmas presents (to myself);

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-27.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-29.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-32.jpg

Teeny-tiny Nanotechnology lithium battery, which weighs in at an incredible 990g (yes, less than 1kg!!).

That is 4kg LIGHTER than my Varley Red Flash race battery, which was previously the lightest thing you could get.

Expensive, but as long as it works it's a cost-effective way to get 4kg out of the car. On paper they have more cranking power than a conventional battery as well.

I haven't tried it out yet.

db_1.2

24-12-10, 08:48 AM

Nice pieces of technology

Are they charge pipe clamps?

novarally

24-12-10, 09:19 AM

Nice pieces of technology

Are they charge pipe clamps?

They're known as 'Wiggins' clamps (Adel Wiggins is the manufacturer).

The little ones are for water/oil hoses, and the bigger one is for water or intercooler pipes.

I have no idea if any of them will fit my car, but a friend of mine got a job lot of them so I've got a few to try.

They are unbelievably expensive to buy new, so it won't be happening if there are none suitable in his collection!

db_1.2

24-12-10, 04:57 PM

They're known as 'Wiggins' clamps (Adel Wiggins is the manufacturer).

The little ones are for water/oil hoses, and the bigger one is for water or intercooler pipes.

I have no idea if any of them will fit my car, but a friend of mine got a job lot of them so I've got a few to try.

They are unbelievably expensive to buy new, so it won't be happening if there are none suitable in his collection!

Sweet!

Lol i was going to look into to some for my Fiesta RS, but if theyre that expensive i think ill stick with jubilee clips!

Mike

24-12-10, 05:01 PM

You can only really use them on hardpipes Db, as the aluminium ferrul that mounts inside them isnt designed for use on hoses like.

And as Colin says, horrendesly expensive is an understatement lol

db_1.2

24-12-10, 05:17 PM

You can only really use them on hardpipes Db, as the aluminium ferrul that mounts inside them isnt designed for use on hoses like.

And as Colin says, horrendesly expensive is an understatement lol

I did wonder what sort of pipe they were for when i looked at the design. I just wanted some cus they look bling! Might put some on me fingers!

Dayle_

24-12-10, 06:50 PM

They are stupidly priced. If you were to buy them you really do have more money than sense.

MK999

24-12-10, 07:07 PM

Just looked it up, couldn't find definite prices for the UK but an old forum post says 3" clamps are around £130 per join... Silicon tubing and jubilee clips it is then! lol

novarally

09-01-11, 06:19 PM

Finally got the wide arch bodykit and other fibreglass panels picked up;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/013-10.jpg

bmw156

09-01-11, 06:21 PM

quality

:D

novarally

09-01-11, 06:22 PM

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/014-12.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/015-14.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/016-15.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/017-18.jpg

I also got the moulds for the bumpers, and the front wings;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/011-14.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/012-14.jpg

The arches are going to be too wide for what I need, but the other bits could be useful.

burgo

09-01-11, 06:24 PM

**** me, never seen anything that extreme

Edd

09-01-11, 06:24 PM

That's a seriously wide kit lol

novarally

09-01-11, 06:25 PM

The doors are only skins, so probably only the passenger side will be of use, but it is really light. I'll have to sort something else out for the drivers side;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/002-31.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/003-34.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/004-29.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/hillclimbescort/005-24.jpg