So whats faster out of the two assuming the motors are pretty much the same? ( tihs is just to settle summit between me an my GSI m8 ) :P thanx
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So whats faster out of the two assuming the motors are pretty much the same? ( tihs is just to settle summit between me an my GSI m8 ) :P thanx
carb all the way :lol:
thats what i was thinking m8 :lol: Twin 40s goin on soon
u cant compare a set of twincarbs to a std tuned port injection system?
gsi injection system vs 32/34 - injection wins
throttle bodies vs twin 40's - injection wins
injection systems are better
better control and accurate control gives u more power
Personally carb there is less to go wrong. Injectios systems r ok but to get serious power u need to spend big with carbs u dont.
it all depends on the money situation, if you have lots injection wins hands down
Buying carbs new costs a lot of money, Twin 40s cost about ?600 ish without the linkages etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYRACER
There is plenty to go wrong with carbs tbh.
With injection the majority of problems are just a duff sensor etc, so pretty easy to fix.
If carbs were better then modern car manufacturers would use them.
I prefer carbs, I find them easier to work on & more simple, However for reliability I would say Injection.
Well thats what i meant really far easier to work on.
a well setup pair of 40/45's are going to be 90% as good as throttle bodies.
tb's can give you good power accross the range whereas carb's might be a bit low in places to get more somewhere else.
injection everytime provided you have good management and proper intake. EG the touring cars run injection and a std looking manifold ;)
electronic control over a mechanical one and the electronics will always be better suited to the task at hand!
well if its just basic poke ur after in standard form id have 2 say carb- fuk and mines a 14oo injection[sri corsa source] nippy enough but theres 2 older sr boys that hav had me on a carridgeway run :roll:
the sri corsa engine is 82bhp and the standard carb 1.4 is 72bhp so if u were beat then theres somthing wrong with your driving or your engine
Injection is cheaper and more efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Live The Nova!
Tbh without providing specific details this is almost as bad as a "whats better, saxo or nova?" post... I'd say it was more down to budget, engine, driver preference etc than just a case of 'whats better'...
the point still stands - injection systems are more efficient, more powerful and more economical than an equivilent carburettor setup
yes injected setups are more expensive, but they are more expensive for a reason
an example is SBD's Carb and TB kits for the 16xe
the carb kit consists of 45 webers and MBE ignition management and they claim 140bhp
the throttle body kit consists of jenveys and mbe management and they claim 160bhp
20bhp and the only real difference is that one setup is injected and one is carbed, the injected setup is far more accurate at fuelling so u get more efficency and more performance - and u pay more for it too
the same applies when comparing the normal tuned port injection systems and stnadrad twinchoke carbs
injection always wins
i agree that injetcion is better, but it costs a lot more, nd costs more when it goes wrong or needs mapping/setting up.
what about the 1.2spi vs 1.2 carb?
and i bet if u stick a 32/34 on an sri engine somehow it would be better than the mpi system.
Yeah carb beats spi all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowface
But spi isn't really proper injection, its stuck between carb and injection, a 1.2mpi, if that could be done, would beat 1.2 carb no doubt.
SRI throttle plate is 55mm
this means that it provides 2374mm2 of area
32/34 has 32mm and 34mm throttle plate
this means it has 803+907= 1710mm2 of area
injection wins again :p
infact u could take the injection throttle body down to 45mm and still have more area than the carb engine
as for the 1.2i vs 1.2carb argument i'd be willing to bet that if u fitted a 1.2i throttle body to a 1.2carb inlet manifold and a 1.2carb head on a 1.2carb exhaust and cam u'd make more power than the carb engine makes
the 1.2i is restricted via its shite cylinder head and the addition of a cat so its not a fair comparison
simple fact - injection wins ;)
oh and it doesnt freeze up and always starts first turn of the key every morning
yeah,
The sri only produces 82bhp with its big valve head though.
I'm sure if you fit a 32/34 to it then it would get more.
Didn't benji get 92bhp just by putting a 1.4sri head on his 1.4 block?
Thats better than 82bhp i'd say.
i do take the fact that injection is more accurate and better economy, just trying to highlight certain circumstances where it may not be.
benjis 92bhp was probably with twin40's
which have about double the throttle area of the 32/34
i would bet money on the fact that if u fitted a 32/34 to a 1300 manifold thats been properly matched to an SE head the SRi system would still make more power assuming NOTHING else changed (ie the cat would need to be removed for the carb and running the injection system without a cat would give more power streight away)
carbs are a CHEAP way of attaining power and thats it
an equivilent spec EFI system will always produce more power than carbs (not neccesarily peak power as u could probably get the peak power VERY close between 40's and tb's but the injection system would have a better low and midrange so would have more power overall)
i see your point aragorn and you are correct. but i hae an argument of my own, i had a standard gsi engine that i put a twinchoke webber onto to save the wiring as the gte i put it into's wiring was shot. (could not get hold of another loom at the time.) so basically i had a gte with a twinchoke on. everything else was standard, it made less power than the gte engine that was in there before too (proving your point)
but it used to beat gtes and gsis all day long. several different occasions did i do it to with different gtes and gsis so it was not a bad one i reced.
i put it down to the better power delivery from the carb, and much much better throttle response
fair enough but it could have been caused by other factors
shit driving, gearbox, other cars being fucked, other cars having shit tires
my 1600 16v ran a 16.4 1/4 mile last time i tried, a standard GTE can run that and with a good driver could prolly do better, but im 10bhp up on a std gte
i should be in the high 15's but a combination of shit tyres, crappy gearbox and it being my first ever time at the strip meant i didnt make it
throttle response in an injected car SHOULD be faster in an ideal setup, electronics are faster than mechanics if configured properly but its not always the case, i found my mates GTE much more responsive than my 16v in the midrange so even comparing 2 injected cars with different systems gives different results
yeah injection SHOULD be faster response but have you ever driven a vauxhall injected car lol. you can dab the throttle on a nova gte astra gte and even my xe and itll take a second for the engine to even realise your there lol. the delay on standard injection is hiddious, throttle bodies on the otehr hand. :twisted:
injection more responsive than carbs?? mmm the word bull***t springs to mind. and as for electronics being faster than mechanics... lmao.. injection sucks!! unless tb's or a blower is used. carbs kick ass, and will punch just as hard as tb's if tuned correctly
sorry but u aint got a clue what im trying to get across here
carbs dont kick ass - they are shite as there is no accurate control over the fuelling
the key to power is to add the perfect amount of fuel for a given load situation and a bunch of needles jets and chokes is never going to be able to match a computer in accuracy and therefore and injected engine will always make more power to a similarly equipped carb
im not trying to say a standard 1.6gte engine is as good as a set of twincarbs as they are completely different systems - 1 throttle body vs 4 which is what u seem to have picked up on. Like for like the injection systems are better
TB's vs 40's
standard tuned port injection vs twinchoke carb
throttle response is down to the setup, when u snap the throttle open the engine will instantaneously be running very lean - what we deem to be "response" is how quickly it recovers from this leanout, the problem is that there are so many factors which vary the time it will take on both systems that it would have to be measured very carefully
i'd much rather have a TPI system over a twin choke carburettor any day - why do u think vauxhall fitted the GTE with TPI back in 1987 when they could have just taken a carb and used that? bearing in mind that in 1987 the costs of such a system would have been enormous as it wasnt untill 90-91 that electronic injection really began to become more widespread
Nova SRi's will beat SR's all day long. Put the SRi head on the SR, using the standard SR carb (compared to standard SRi Injection) SRi still wins.
If you want to up it to 40/45 vs. TB's, then this is a different matter. Both can be assholes to setup, and both can cost a lot of money. However you can fine tune TB's more than carbs, they are more responsive, more controlled through the rev range, probably better on fuel, IMO TB's would win.
I have an SR on carbs, and given the choice between SR on carbs with my SRi head, cam etc, or an SRi on TB's, I'd choose the SRi on TB's.
However they are too expensive, people know more about carbs on here etc, so they are just easier and cheaper to sort out.
However INJECTION WINS EVERYTIME.
i had a 1.2i nova and was so much easier no messin about,
my SR however has to be adjusted manually for best gains etc
injection is easier but it depends on situatution
both are good, and power easily achievable with both