lol not the magnet - the pin
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lol not the magnet - the pin
Dogbox = coolness
Got a feeling that its fitted inside one of the shafts, same as the standard one. I'll got check mine later. I assume the magnet is there for scale referance.
EDIT: Didn't show your second post at first lol
looks good cp! that pin does look suspisciously like a roller from a bearing though, which could be not great news if you've built it all up now, magnet goes in a slot in the casing iirc
top job love the build!
No its not out of a bearing, they are complete with nothing to fall out - it came in a seperate packet with circlips and roll pins etc. I'm wondering if its something to do with the selector turret assembly - I dont have the uprated one at the moment:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by lee303
BTW Lee i found out the problem with the clutch apparently not biting - ahem:roll: :gay:
The splined input shaft that slides through the clutch was too small. The 5SCCR is std sized. The AP clutch pack is made specifically for the dog box which has a large diameter splined shaftlol . So i had effectively rigged it with the input shaft not actually touching the splines of the clutchlol muppet!
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone020.jpg
In order to fit a dog box material from the gear box has to be removed (similar stylee to fitting quaife ATB LSD) here:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone016.jpg
and here
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone017.jpg.
Other jobs. Sorted out the chassis leg where the oli pump sprocket gets in the way
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone018.jpg
and fitted my snap off steering wheel
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone019.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone021.jpg
d'you know, i did think of asking if you needed to change the clutch plate to suit the box! at least its an easy fix! rolling road for me tommorow for final tweeks and graph etc, then i need to remove my gearbox on tuesday night to fix a leaking slave cylinder, and am driving to germany on thursaday! deep joy
Found it - quaife's website have exploded diagrams of their boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CP
Its a dowell on the output shaft which means its all got to come apart again:mad:
BUGG+R!! :mad: :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by CP
Stunning weapon dude.
Had a good look at pv, is very well done.
How come you dont mount the pump on the back of the engine? wouldnt there be more room there? Like lee303 has.
Well this fooking dowell thing has led me on a right old goose chase this evening:mad:
I decided reluctantly, even though my instincts told me it wasn't necessary, to split the cluster back down and try and find a home for it. The upshot of the entire evening wasted was that, short of drilling my own hole for it somewhere randomly, there is no place for it to go, no reason for the cluster to need one and SO NO FOOKIN NEED FOR IT BE IN THE BASTID KIT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!:mad:
Anyway I feel better now thats off my chest. I think I might superglue it to the dash so that when the gearbox mashes its internals up cos a special dowell wasn't in place I can think to myself yep I was wrong I did need it after all -shortly before I shoot myselflol
To finish off the evening I've also discovered that I need to grind some of the diff housing away to get the new crown wheel in. Its very tight:eek:
the joys of motorsport parts!
it'll all be worth it in the end.
p.s. bagsy a ride :)
Might have to cling to the roll cage, no poofy passenger seat in this car!
suits me fine lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MC
Got round the crown wheel not fitting in issue. Its bigger and wider than std so it has to go in first before the cluster is installed;)
Next issue we've been pondering is front wheel bearings. I dont really want to change drive shafts cos I'm not thrashing it all with any heavy torque driveshaft snapping standing starts but I would like to fit larger hub bearings to resist the lateral cornering loads which have increased greatly now we have decent brakes. I called my bearing supplier who looked up the std bearing size (33.9mm ID and 68 OD IIRC) to see if there is an over size bearing made. Nup basically.
So at the mo. I'm considering buying 2.0l bearings and sleeving the hubs to fit. Anyone got any gen?
The problem rears its ugly head when braking on a straight following a high G corner. It appears that the slicks are generating enough G to cause some movement in the standard bearings. This coupled with the extra diameter of the discs is enough to push the pads back. First time the pedal is pressed and it goes to the floor. Second time its back. We developed a teqnique of a quick pump before applying the brakes which works, but it would be nice to know they are always there.
MC
you could use some residual pressure valves in the front brake lines if thats the only issue it causes
AP racing have there rotors mounted on bobbins to prevent pad knock like you are experiencing.
Or fit knockback springs. These fit inside the caliper behind the piston. TBH though you are better off preventing the movement of the rotor, better to find a cure than a quick fix :thumb:
Cheers those comments - good thinking.
One of the other serious issues that has emerged from the brake change has been the heat generation. We've measured the temperature of the brake and general hub area as being well into the mid 600 degrees C :eek: . The readings may not be that accurate (although we have tested on other things and it seems ball park)but nevertheless whatever, it's still hot enough to allow the wheel bolts to stretch loose. After 2 or 3 fast laps we need to get in to tighten them and then if you dont loosen them before they get cold they wont come undone again.
I should imagine that these temperatures are having fairly significant effects on the bearings etc etc seeing as its all std stuff and not designed to be cooked up at this heat.
Looking through brake fluid specs there is only one fluid that seems like it can live with this temperature - the DOT 5.1 Castrol DTF (? IIRC) so we will have to change to that which could well help cut brake fluid boiling and thus overall brake feel.
The big change that I need to make on this whole subject is to sort out some kind of forced ventilation to the brakes but it wont be easy - there's not much room around front wheel drive hub assembilies:confused:
Progress has slowed a bit whilst trying to sort what I want to do and also waiting for parts.
However I have now got the gearbox selector turret
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone024.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone025.jpg
God knows how much horspower the dog box is going to soak up. The drag on it is massive:( I guess it the price you have to pay to not have a box that breaks in exteme conditions
Your fluid temps should be nowhere near the 600deg C you're measuring (I'm assuming with a laser pyrometer) I'd be concerned if the fluid temps were much over 200 tbh. Heat transfer to the fluid can be reduced by using inserts between pad and piston, but again you shouldn't be running those temps to begin with IMHO, and ventilation is definately the way to go! You could try some ram pipes from the front bumper with ducting secured along the tie-bars and under the TCA's to point at the inner face of the disc.
i thought dog boxes sapped less power than normal boxes due to the more direct meshing of the gears??
is that the correct term?
Yeh you're right - looking at the fluid performance specs for the various fluids that you can buy the temperatures are less than half the figures we are getting off the pyrometer ( as you say). We guessed from this info that the fluid temps are a lot lower than the actual hub and brake temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdev (Oli)
Umm I don't really know. Obv at the mo its not properly lube'd up but I would imagine that the larger mass of the gears and the increased surface area of the meshing parts(they are wider and heavier duty) would absorb more power, and maybe more so than the advantage of straight cut over helical:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by burgo
the main advantage of straight cut is the reduced side loading on the box main shafts, i would imagine when the gears have run for a bit they will loosen up somewhat, the rolling losses on mine are tiny, it takes ages to run down on the dyno!
loving th turret cp, think i may have to go for a dog box after my german escapades, the synchro sccr is looking decidedly worse for wear!
I promise I'll shut up on about my gearbox after this postlol
I went to fit the selector turret assembly tonight and found it wouldn't fit unless I ground away some of the casing like so
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...ostdone027.jpg
Next job is to get it all back into the car
Talk to me about the tie bar solution you've made please CP.
I cannot understand how this is not wearing metal on metal and could only serve a hand full of hard miles before dangerous play results. Surely it's a heavier design compared with Lee303's elegant solution?
The loading on a rose joint is acceptable front on as much as side on due to the bearing being perfectly round; makes no odds. What does matter is how the bearing itself is held into the bracket that's mounted solidly to the chassis.
Does the front not skip about with your arrangement?
I like the theory; the way you've identified the need to perfect the lower arm / tie bar situation, but find the execution alarming.
Using a socket set UJ for the gear linkage will grant you deflection just where you don't want it. the reason proper UJ's cost what they do is because they will eliminate that slop and last. Can you get all 5 forward gears and reverse with setup you made?
I was a little surprised to see a built up engine sitting on it's exhaust manifold too.
Sorry for all the challenging comments
I'll speak on CP's behalf as you'll get no joy for the next month. I drive the car also and have had some input in the build.
I too had/have reservations on the wishbone arrangement but I do respect CP's years of experience in the field of wear on metal components. The first point in making a proper wishbone was to get a true arc with both front and rear mounting points in perfect alignment. The standard mounting points and any solution based on them will not give this. The wishbone is fairly heavy, but is also very strong and we both accept that there will be some wear on the bolt and hole that it passes through, but you must take into account three things. Firstly and most importantly, this car does a maximum of two or three track days a year with NO road use. (limited miles on a smooth surface). Secondly they are Catapillar bolts wich are something special in the bolt world and thirdly the wearing surface are large due to the thickness of steel and the diameter of the bolt. It will wear, but not at a rate that will go unnoticed and not be repaired. CP's concern with using a rosejoint at the front was having two of them hold the wishbone perpendicular to the direction of travel. It may work, but is does run a risk of being damaged.
The gear linkage was a personal challenge for CP. This isn't born out of a desire to save money, more to see if he can improve the design of the quaife item. He had seen people using the quaife selector that could get all five gear whilst parked, but struggled and missed gear when driving in anger. I have used the linkage and it works. It is very tight and precise and yes all gears are obtained easily. The Socket set UJ works very well, the main benefit being that it is not at such an accute angle as the quaife design. The only negative point is that the throw is greater than it should be.
Yes the engine sat on the manifold wasn't ideal, was bought standing like that and sat like that till it went in with no apparent ill effects luckily.
The good thing about our fabricating abilities and the facilities we have is that its easy to try something and change it if it doesn't work. It's all fun!
MC
Fair enough :)
The other thing I wanted to mention would be when I saw the images of the front strut tops chopped I thought great someone's gonna raise the mounting points on the front to allow lower stance with more travel…
Only to find it was to have the reverse effect; making them lower! WHY you would ever want to do this puzzles me.
They weren't lowered, just moved in and back to give more castor and neg camber.
All fair points I feel - I'm the first to accept that what I've done might not work out too well but it doesn't cost a lot to try and being as its on track it wont matter too much and everyone else will enjoy watching one of those ****ty novas falling apart as they burn past in their caterfieldslol
In my defence I would say that what I have done is many times stronger than fairly std suspension set-ups that i've witnessed with high hp XE's and LET's in them. I've still not got anything with much torque engine wise and neither is it heavy
The trouble with making my nova run too low is that with the slicks on they rub worse cos they dont have a rounded profile at the edges like most road tyres.
The engine isn't all that heavy - ie 1 person can pick it up so no worries resting on that exhaust - its not a big block you know :p lol
Big Blocks are for poofs! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CP
Mmm you'd be amazed at what some people run on big blocks like turned down flanges for standard bearings…
A handful of XE's can be lifted like a lighter small block even so I'ud never rest the full weight through the manifold given the choice.
You could have gone eccentric nuts on the strut bottoms for more neg than you'd ever want ~ to the point where take the rest far enough and you wouldn't want so much, on balance…
Is a shame they can't made slicks just the same as road tyres dimensionally; don't they understand what nova racers need!
In theory, but once again thwarted. The tyres rub on the coilovers as it is, so we have to use spacers. We have exhausted the camber options, tried them all hence the drastic mods.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRoadGhost
I'm gonna be getting back onto trying to finish this over christmas.
There are number of key things that I need to sort:
1. Try to get the engine started and checked over. Now that I have sorted out the gearbox there is no reason why I cant try and start it (err I think:confused: lol )
2. Front wheel hubs/bearings. These have started wearing & causing problems with pad knock back . Not sure quite what to do - it would be nice to fit larger bearings but since the transmission is F13 throughout I dont really want to start changing the shafts unless I have to, which means sticking to the std hubs so I'm a bit stuck.:confused:
3. Sort out some cooling for the front brakes. The whole lot gets so hot that the wheel bolts stretch:eek: - I know I'm riding for a fall if I don't try and sort this
4. Fit the new heated windscreen.
5. Modify the gear linkage to fit the new dog box gear selector shaft
6. Get it corner weighed and try and get some meaningful measurements of the various settings.
7. Check the dB output from a driveby test
May I suggest some holes in the bumper (I take it you're not running a bumper iron) and some ducting fed around to the inside of the wheel?Quote:
Originally Posted by CP
My mate has an M3 (E36 M3's have brake cooling ducts as standard)and he dislodged one at a trackday, and then completely cooked the brakes on that side. I'd never thought ducting would be that effective until that happened!
Another idea is to try running slabs as an experiment. Although they're heavy they will absorb a hell of a lot of heat compard to how quickly an MO would be able to get rid of it. Dans never cooked its brakes and I rekon the slabs were a big factor in that.
In all fairness Dan's wasn't running six pots that will allow you to do front flips! The brakes are awesome and allow you to stop like a Caterfield, but they do get bloody hot. We have one of them fangly IR temp sensor things and will actually write down the figures next time.
It's possible to run the front as low as you'ud ever want it on coilovers without the need for offset screwing spacers OR extensive work if you think about it.Quote:
In theory, but once again thwarted. The tyres rub on the coilovers as it is, so we have to use spacers. We have exhausted the camber options, tried them all hence the drastic mods.
[now's the time to insult rather than question btw]