985cc Turbocharged Nova Sprint Car

probably your cheapest fix is to get your existing engine rebuilt, and lower the boost a tad.

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Originally Posted by novarally

Where do you draw the line?

You could bolt an engine in the front, one in the back, 4WD, turbo and supercharger on both of them.........it's endless.

And that's the problem, it is literally a bottomless pit of spending if you want to be competitive in any form of motorsport. There is simply no such thing as cheap, someone else is always willing, and able, to spend more than you can.

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The xtrac puma is a pretty good example of that, figures for the cost if xtrac charged labour etc on the bits they did is something mad like 1.5million iirc?

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Originally Posted by mowgli

probably your cheapest fix is to get your existing engine rebuilt, and lower the boost a tad.

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Probably true, but I was only putting 18psi through it, the problem is that the bottom end was standard, and just not able to cope with the boost/revs being thrown at it.

If I want to go forward and compete on level terms with the quick guys, it definitely needs forged pistons as a minimum, and preferably steel crank and rods too.

Sticking with the up to 1400 Class is still my preferred option, but it will all boil down to cost in the end.

I'm meeting with the Parts Manager at my local Vauxhall dealer tomorrow, I'm hoping he can find out more for me about the Brazilian 1.0 OHC engine to see if that is a realistic option.

colin i think you should rebuild your bottom end as is and then go for a 16v head. i know this mean a new or modifying the inlet and exhaust manifolds but the gains could be worth it

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Originally Posted by novarally

Or I am now (vaguely) considering a very high powered LET for it, again just for fun.

A really big power LET would almost certainly cost less than building a 1.0 turbo, and would offer a lot of smiles.

So I've spent the last hour or more trawling through old 'Cars For Sale' adverts to see what is (and was) around.

Something like the green TOTB Corsa that Chris S from Sheffield had would have made an ideal donor car!

It was registered as J60 OST, but I have a feeling that car got sold?

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the car is still owned by chris it has xe in it now till his new engine built i think well it was running one at pvs. dave dixson has his old turbo and manifold for his nova

If you're going to stay as 1ltr turbo still, and go for a steel bottom end would it be worth while destroking a 1.3/1.4 rather than sleeveing a block so that it's a revvier lump?

And also having a bigger bore will give you more room for bigger valve area!

the 12ST has the lowest stroke of any stock gm engine. by going lower on the stroke, you would need a bespoke crank and still need forged pistons..

as the car was built using mini metro pistons, there is a really good probability that someone somewhere does forged pistons already for it, so they will cost less to obtain.

there are alread valve cutouts in the block that don't appear to affect the running

I think you should keep it within the 1.0L bracket - It's part of what makes this car unique.

Hold out for the brazilian lump then go to town on it.

I agree tbh, shame you cant write the rest of the season off then spend all year/winter soucring the parts and rebuilding.

The car is/was obviously very competitive in that class as it won it a few times iirc!

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Originally Posted by Ben

I agree tbh, shame you cant write the rest of the season off then spend all year/winter soucring the parts and rebuilding.

The car is/was obviously very competitive in that class as it won it a few times iirc!

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To be fair I could write the season off now and concentrate on the rebuild, I'd just rather be out there racing.

The car was competitive, of that there's no doubt. It used to win regularly even with 160-odd BHP.

Trouble is in the few years since then, things have moved on dramatically with the Minis, the best of which are making 200-ish BHP.

I have no doubt at all it can win again, but reliability is obviously the priority.

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Originally Posted by mowgli

as the car was built using mini metro pistons, there is a really good probability that someone somewhere does forged pistons already for it, so they will cost less to obtain

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Correct, they are apparently Metro Van pistons, although why the van would have had a different piston to a normal hatchback I'm not sure (lower compression ratio?).

I've spoken to John at Cambridge Motorsport who supplies custom forged pistons, and he can get me a set made to my requirements for around £500.

I think you would be best of sticking in the up to 1400 class, as then you can still be competitive.

and for the cost of a mental LET, i'm sure you could rebuild your engine with a steel bottom end and forged pistons. and if the brazilian engine is a goer, then a steel bottom end, forged pistons and a rather large turbo would be mental! and still cheaper i'd guess then an LET.

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Originally Posted by Lewis.

I think you would be best of sticking in the up to 1400 class, as then you can still be competitive.

and for the cost of a mental LET, i'm sure you could rebuild your engine with a steel bottom end and forged pistons. and if the brazilian engine is a goer, then a steel bottom end, forged pistons and a rather large turbo would be mental! and still cheaper i'd guess then an LET.

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If I was going for an LET (or XE) I'd just buy a complete car, and by selling off all the other bits I don't need, it would end up being a cheaper engine.

ah good idea, on something with lots of fancy stuff you could probably make most of your money back.

but would an LET be competitive in the unlimited class?

this thing deserves a 600bhp let.

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Originally Posted by novarally

Correct, they are apparently Metro Van pistons, although why the van would have had a different piston to a normal hatchback I'm not sure (lower compression ratio?).

I've spoken to John at Cambridge Motorsport who supplies custom forged pistons, and he can get me a set made to my requirements for around £500.

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are you still considering 16v head too?
have you looked into a custom crank etc, as it might be worth considering a destroked rather than a debored at this stage to give you more area for valves and a lot less strain on the bottom end too, the slightly less piston speed will mean less chamber fill but that can be overcome by boost!

Colin what's the cheapest option? A 1.0 rebuild or a revised 1.2/1.3 rebuild??

Personally love the fact this is a unique engine build and feel that if you took that away then it wouldn't be as exciting for you and you'd end up breaking or selling on eBay IMO.

16v head slips straight on a 12st block ;)

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/...0/SAM_0259.jpg

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Originally Posted by Southie

Colin what's the cheapest option? A 1.0 rebuild or a revised 1.2/1.3 rebuild??

Personally love the fact this is a unique engine build and feel that if you took that away then it wouldn't be as exciting for you and you'd end up breaking or selling on eBay IMO.

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This is half the problem at the moment, I've got no quotes to work from, hopefully BTEC will sort some numbers out for me soon. The possibility of destroking is certainly something I will discuss with them, I'm outside my experience zone with this level of technical stuff.

Yes, I would like to go 16v, but only if there will be a significant power advantage. I'm sure the 16v head will weigh a fair bit more, plus it would need new inlet and exhaust manifolds of course.

I have a couple of 16v heads and a complete 1400 16v engine. In fact the head from this one I've got would look rather good;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l.../2901218-3.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pancho

this thing deserves a 600bhp let.

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It is tempting. Not many people have 1000 bhp per tonne......

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Originally Posted by wikipedia

An oversquare engine allows for more and larger valves in the head of the cylinder, lower friction losses (due to the reduced distance travelled during each engine rotation) and lower crank stress (due to the lower peak piston speed relative to engine speed). Because these characteristics favor higher engine speeds, oversquare engines are often tuned to develop peak torque at a relatively high speed.

The reduced stroke length allows for a shorter cylinder and sometimes a shorter connecting rod, generally making oversquare engines less tall than undersquare engines of similar engine displacement but wider and longer (for engines with vertical cylinder axes).

By changing the crankshaft and modifying the connecting rod(s), piston(s) and/or engine block an engine can be "de-stroked". This reduces the displacement and consequently the torque of the engine, but can allow it to run at higher speeds and in fact develop greater peak power.

Oversquare engine examples

Oversquare engines are extremely common, including both Chevrolet and Ford small block V8s. Most Boxer (horizontally-opposed) engines (such as those built by Volkswagen, Porsche, and Subaru) feature oversquare designs since any increase in stroke length would result in twice the increase in overall engine size.

This is particularly crucial in Subaru's front-engine layout, where the steering angle of the front wheels is limited largely by the size of the engine. Although oversquare engines have a reputation for being high-strung, low-torque machines, the Subaru EJ engine develops peak torque at speeds as low as 3200 RPM.

Extreme examples of oversquare engine designs are found in Formula One race cars, whose rules tightly limit displacement and thereby require that power be achieved through high engine speeds. Stroke ratios of 2.5:1 are typical, with engines capable of 19,000 RPM.[citation needed]

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Stolen from wikipedia as I can't be arsed to type it out from my books but it gives you the general plus points!

Small update......the engine is being put back together with a set of new pistons, along with shells, oil pump and Total Seal piston rings. The sump is also being modified to hold a bit more oil, as oil pressure seemed to be a problem with the higher level of cornering force that the car can now generate.

I don't have the money at this time to opt for a 'proper' engine build, so the plan is to run it with slightly less boost and/or revs, and hopefully it will last out this racing season, and allow me to fine tune the rest of the car.

Longer term I intend to get another engine built, using steel crank, steel rods and forged pistons. This may well take the form of a de-stroked 1300/1400 (possibly 16v), but I need to discuss this with experts to decide the best way forward and check out the likely costings.

Did your local parts chap give you any info on getting a 1.0L engine from brazil ?

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Originally Posted by Edd

Did your local parts chap give you any info on getting a 1.0L engine from brazil ?

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I've drawn a complete blank on that one. They were very helpful, but tell me that GM Europe have no connection to GM Americas, so they can't access the database to even view the parts, let alone order them.

He gave me a contact name and number at a company called 'Vaux-Pro', who supply brand new crate engines to the Vauxhall Dealer Network, but when I spoke to them they were also unable to assist with sourcing stuff outside Europe.

So I think that option is out of the running, plus the more I think about it the more I think the engine block is unlikely be identical to a Nova (e.g. it might have lug mounts cast into it for a PAS pump).

Have you considered using this system to help your oil pressure issues

http://www.accusump.com/


I know a few rally boys who use it - Martin Bowyer (Bowyer Developments) has spec'ed it for the Engine for our Corsa S1600


Its basically a pressurised oil tank - that release's oil if the pressure drops

Might be worth looking into



Dave

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Originally Posted by fearless

Have you considered using this system to help your oil pressure issues

http://www.accusump.com/


Dave

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Hi Dave.

I am aware of those systems, and they seem to work well.

If I go the whole way with the engine as I hope, I will probably bite the bullet and have a proper dry sump system on it.

I cant wait to see the next incarnation of this engine,
I love the development of this car, a short stroke 9500rpm screamer coming soon then?????

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Originally Posted by stt

I cant wait to see the next incarnation of this engine,
I love the development of this car, a short stroke 9500rpm screamer coming soon then?????

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The sooner people buy up all my stock of Nova spares and race/rally bits, the sooner you will see a new engine in it............

So glad your sticking with the 1.0 engine Colin,

The big block options would really have spoilt the car IMO,

Glad you can finish the season and hopefully get some good results from the car!

im glad your sticking with it Colin, it would of had to of been that or a crazy powered lump, i guess you wont have a lot of time but maybe a big forum/ebay/PH sell off ?

Small Blocks are the future! and just think of all the extra weight of a big block, power gains would be healthy although you would lose alot of speed in the corners!

No news yet on the engine rebuild, so my next hillclimb event, the next round of the Championship at Gurston Down on the 17th July is looking very doubtful.

I'd made arrangements to borrow a 550bhp Escort Cosworth from a friend of mine to do the event, but unfortunately he was made an offer he couldn't refuse for the engine, so that has fallen through!

So unless I can beg, borrow or buy a suitable car in the meantime, it looks like I will be a spectator once again.

For a long while I've been on the hunt for some 15" split rim wheels to use on the front of the Nova, but had no success, so today I bought a complete car, with wheels thrown in!;

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/001-14.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/003-49.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/002-46.jpg

In actual fact it was 2 cars, as I had to buy another 5 GT Turbo which came with it..........

How much more late 80's retro can you get than a Dimma 5?

Awesome!! I always wanted the Dimma kit for mine when I had one!!

If didnt have this bag of **** Corsa Id snatch your hand off for that 5!

Looks like it hasn't moved since the 80's!

How light are the alloys though Colin? Always loved those kits back in the day.

:eek: what happend with the bumpers?

It's that fast, they fell off lol

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Originally Posted by zeifer33

:eek: what happend with the bumpers?

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The bumpers are in the boot of the other R5 that I got.

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Originally Posted by Southie

How light are the alloys though Colin?

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I'll find out shortly, just about to go and take one of the tyres off. I have a feeling they're not going to be as lightweight as I'd like!