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To be really honest, 300 bhp in a nova is gonna be a total waste.
Build a let if you want big power
200-250 bhp in a lightweight shoebox is more than enough
cokk waving gets you nowhere, apart from top of the big guy list in the pub bragging championships
If you pull it off, fair play, but i dont see the point. seems a whole waste of money to me
good luck mate.. be good see it when it all done
The engine in my mates is 222hp @ 8640 with a 8800 limit, it will hopefully be nearer 235 with a new head on it, maybe more but 222 was insane anyway.
Very peaky power which is why its having a few changes.
One thing I am certain of is that the F28 wont be much good, the OE vauxhalls gearboxes dont like high revving engines, I'd imagine the F28 will suffer from the same problem. Get a SCCR in it minimum IMO.
i do understand where you all are coming from and respect that your all trying to save me money and have a more reliable. and most have far more experience then me about big power engines. But As for the money i dont go drinking dont do drugs and havent got a women to spend my money on and havent got a house. So why not do something like this as a one off to prove my skills and the fact i can do it and not to be bragging about it as that just insnt me. And for tho's that say put a let in instead that is not a option i dont like turbo's and love the sound of a tb'd xe. And i do know a company near me that builds 250 - 300 bhp xe's all the time. and my mates are helping me rebuild it as they help build these high powered xe's. And about the list i put, i did say that was on the top of my head as my mates is the person behind me basically telling me what i need to get it. and it will run 8 injectors as thats why ive got the hiyabussa tb's as they can run 8 very easy. or get bigger set of injectors for them. And when you say i will need the dry sump etc i know these things.
well, good luck anyways, but personally, really, what is the point.
if it were for competition, maybe, but still, im not getting it.
If you have that much money to blow, trust me, dont do it on a nova, or for that matter, any car.
Put it in the bank, in an ISA or something. Bricks and mortar is the way forward mate
Yea that would be the better option. but at the moment im on really good money so doing now before its to late. But im not taking the engine to 300 brake right away any how. im want to see what gains thing give. like put the engine in standard first and see what power that gives then standard engine with the tb's only then with the headwork and cams etc. And its my 3rd car so wont really get used all the time just for the track days and do hope to get quite good at it and maybe go up another level?
if your on good money now, put some of it away cos you may not always be on good money.
not trying to dissuade you, im just giving you a bit of advice from someone who spunked a huge wad on a car to use it for 6 months.
honestly
invest
well i will put some away. just once the car is up and running on a standard engine ill probley sort something out then.
Spanner in the works...
if you want to show off your skills, like the sound of a TB'd engine, and want biger power, why not sell off your C20XE kit and fit a v6 and then tune+tb that? :D
i do want to go round corners not through them lol
First nova Z22SE conversion?
could of been a option but just wanted a 20xe. wanted the coscast head. but i am getting a Z22SE bottom end to use tho instead of the c20xe one
If you're out to prove yourself and want to be able to go round corners as well, then why not a high spec 1.6 16v? The only reason people go 2.0 is because its cheaper, if you can afford to tune it (which you've said you can) then its gotta be a 1.6. 240bhp has been acheived by SBD and that is more than enough (possibly too much) in a FWD lightweight hatchback. :thumb:
Yea that is true such as yours. but if a bigblock is set up right it no reason why it can handle just as well as a small block. And ive got far to much and done to go small block now. but i just want a big block nova. blaime dar and lee for that lol
Now that would be something. :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xen0phobiak
Sorry that's a stupid thing to say. It doesn't matter what cylinder head you have, with the amount of work to be done on it, a GM head will do equally well as a Coscat head.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
yea but it's the fact that a gm one could go porus which ive seen a few times now
coscast is no better performance wise than a GM head anyway
i know there is no difference at all in the performance. just they dont go porus
not often they dont, theres not many
big big urban horror story myth type legend
Fair enough if a big block's what you want, and not starting a debate here but a small block will always out handle a big block with the same amount of work. The flipside is that a big block will always produce more horsepower for the same amount of work. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
i know it's not commen to but two of my mates went porus and they know of another three. so i wanted to be safe then sorry
Thats true. But the small block vs big block will always be a debate no matter whatQuote:
Originally Posted by dhdev (Oli)
lol lol lol lol lol :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
who's car is this???
to be honest mate i was thinking the same thing, he wont be going far wen the front end rip's its way off. best of luck to him thought, i like the enthusiasum.Quote:
Originally Posted by feel the force
The welding doesn't look great I agree but put a let or a xe in a unwelded nova shell and I guarantee it wont tear it out quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by gammienov16v
They must be welded but they won't fall apart as people quick
i no mate bin there and done that and it started pullin away from the back of the supention mount's attached at the bulk head, that only took about 6month's so it won't last much more if your going to nailing it with 300 hp at the wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonlem
in all fairness **** looking welds can still be strong it takes a bit of practice to have good looking welds
and that is 100% correct takes alot of time and practice to get welds looking goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan 130
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
Good luck with the project.
This is JamieF's (from MIGweb) engine from his old Astra (still going strong in a Westie I understand). Produced around 220-240.
Engine:
20XE with 1mm overbore giving 2044cc, 87mm forged Omega race pistons give a comp ratio of 11.3:1, SBD/Arrow Steel Con Rods and ARP heavy duty rod bolts, heavy duty bearings, SBD steel inner oil pump gear and new outer gear, SBD nylon relief valve, Ported and polished head, SBD/Kent Spec cams(inlet 284 duration/11.40mm lift, exhaust 276 duration,11.04mm lift, SBD/Kent vernier pulleys, Kent valve springs, steel spring caps, 11mm bronze valve guides, 2mm cometic steel head gasket, ARP head stud kit, ARP flywheel bolts, MBE 967E 3D programmable engine management with distributor-less ignition, Jenvey 45mm direct to head throttle bodies, 90mm trumpets, pipercross air filter, bosch cream injectors, FSE fuel pressure regulator with gauge set to 65 PSI(4.5 bar) Bosch 909 fuel pump, SBD fast road exhaust manifold with stainless exhaust fully wrapped in exhaust wrap, rev limit set at 8100rpm.
This is the sbd 299 bhp kit and i think its about 12k
2.0L High Power Full Race Specification Kit
For 2.0 Litre 16V XE & LN Engine
Exhaust manifold type needed to run this with this kit *C-2.0L-XE
The final upgrade of the 2.0L range includes a steel crank, an upper injection system, fuel regulator upgrade and a dry sump system. This kit uses +1mm diameter & 5mm stem valves, which reduces the load on the valve train & does not interrupt the flow of air so much as standard size valve stems.
It also uses the MBE970 ECU, which does about everything apart from making the tea! - Barometric sensing, Alternator sensing (tells alternator not to charge except when throttle is closed - reducing the load on the engine when accelerating), Direct firing coils (each spark plug has its own coil), Launch control, Traction control, 8 injectors, Lambda control, Radiator fan control - the list goes on, & oh yes, it even runs your engine!http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...ec%20graph.gif
There are optional extras available for the wiring loom, however they must be ordered at the outset, as they cannot be added later. They are Alternator adapters, Launch control including selector knob & button and radiator fan control.
When testing this kit, using 88.00mm pistons & 100 RON Unleaded fuel we have achieved 299 BHP (Didn't quite make the 300 BHP) & 203 LBFT torque.
Trevor Willis stayed top 2.0L driver for 2004 & 2005 in the MSA British Hillclimb Championship using this kit in his OMS.
Graham Ford has gradually upgraded his Caterham 7 from our Basic Taper Throttle kit to this Full Race Specification kit with eight injectors, dry sump kit, 233mm flywheel & 5 1/2" clutch.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...ec%20parts.gifParts in this kit
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%202.gif
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%205.gifhttp://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%203.gif
Dry Sump Kit included in the TP290 Kit
(shown is the OS-DSK3P including coupling kit)
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%206.gifhttp://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%204.gif
The upper injector kit shown below is included in the TP290 kit.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...0parts%207.gif
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...20&%20Rods.gif
Headworkhttp://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/...20Headwork.gif
and you need to use this exhaust manifold with that kit to get that power
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Exhaust_Manif...-AST3-S16V.gif
ive just copied this info from the sbd website before anyone shoots me down
some lovely bits of kit there. most of that stuff i will be using but some of the things i will be getting bigger ie cams and my tb's are 2mm bigger on the bore. and the manifold ive already got that is built for around 300 bhp. and all of my head work will be done by autosprint as ive heard very good things about them and they can make my cams to what i want from blanks. the lony main thing im really stuck on is what management im going to use. but that im going to look into at the last min and get more information on what would be best
Anything that'll run 8 injectors & your mapper is experienced with tbh.
8 Injectors IMO isn't needed, Steve Broughton made just over 290hp on a xe @ Track and Road using 4 injectors iirc. I would use either one of the Pectel ECU's, T2 is a good unit, MBE tbh is the best for value, DTA is also a very good ecu.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
Obviously as you have a money tree in your garden stick some T10 or similar on it lol Certainly worth its cost in bragging rights :thumb:
Every tuner has a preffered ecu, I found that both Steves @ Track and Road were quite open to what they use, they map some rather tasty race cars that are on ecu's we can only dream of but their understanding on mapping engines is what allows them to be able to get such good results from a lot of ecu's.
2 Top blokes that I would trust with any engine to map, serious R/R setup they have too :eek: :D
If you want to build a fast N/A nova i'm all for it.
Totally agree with you not liking turbos & in a lightweight shell you want revs & power not torque.
The ex BTCC exhaust is a thing of beauty.
Advise on investments seems a little strange, how can bricks & mortar be the future if he wants to build a fast car?
I don't think reliability should be factored in as a minus either - drive any engine on the redline & it'll burst faster than at say 90% whether it's 30BHP or 330…
To conclude I'ud like to remind peeps that some xe's weigh the same as smallblocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
it's not porous, it's a cracked oilway...
and it can happen on a coscat head too, but it's easily fixed if it does happen anyway
the chevrolet WTCC cars use an advanced 20xe engine. this is there spec of it.
Type 2.0-l, 4-cylinder transversally installed, Motec engine management Displacement 1,998 cc (88 mm bore X 82 mm stroke) Intake system 64 mm throttle, individual injection, plenum with internal trumpets Valve train 2 overhead camshafts; 16-valve, direct-mech tappet, 35 mm inlet & exhaust valve diameter, coil spring Compression ratio 12 to 1 Horsepower 280 hp at 8,500 rpm Torque 267 nm at 5,800 rpm Top Speed (estimated) 254 km/h depending on gear & final ratio
this engine has so much torque its unbelieveable!
MOTEC is about the best engine management you can get no matter what the engine is. thats if you have the money to get it sorted in the forst place which by the sounds of it you do!
all credit to you pal if you can get 300bhp and keep it reliable it will be one rapid nova that!
Personally id rather have more torque than bhp as this is what makes it feel quick! plus it allows you to make it properly shift out of corners better!
Jonlem I know that i dont need 8 Injectors but ive looked into it fairly deep ,And when making power of over 250 + bhp they say if you use 8 injectors the engine will run abit smoother. But yes you are right if i used the astra/ vectra vxr ones they would be plenty big enough for what i want.
ste I never knew that the coscast one can still crack. I thought they didnt go porus because of the oil core plug think its called that :confused:
boffer8 Yea know what your sayin its no point having loads of bhp and no torque, you just want go anywhere. but with the set up im having im hoping to get good gains of torque what havent got a clue yet. But time will tell
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGS
more rain on your parade..... the C20XE head will not work with the Z22SE bottom end.
you have got the 22XE and 22SE mixed up.
the frontera 2.2 is of the same family to the 20XE. the Z22se is a chain drive, exhaust on the back type engine.