That isn't even my current car, and it still don't know whose hosting those vids, haven't a clue who StuZetec is :confused: lol
That vid is back from 2004 and my white Nova
That isn't even my current car, and it still don't know whose hosting those vids, haven't a clue who StuZetec is :confused: lol
That vid is back from 2004 and my white Nova
That was the lecturers nickname for me at college, as I always used to manage to slip out of handing coursework late/not at all lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dar
What tripe!Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyLC
What you need you see, is enough power to snap the driveshafts :D
Lol!! :D
or scatter rods, allegedly lol lol lol
Either is fine :D
For a everydayer, id go 20xe rather than needing to rev the f**k out of a small block to make std xe power
I see it the other way.. The XE produces peek torque very high up in the rev-range so you have to frap it to get the best out of it.. I'd discount the X14XE and X16XE as the inlets are **** and totally ruin a decent engine but the variable inlet Z16XE and Z18XE are awesome engines; torquey little buggers perfect for a tiny little car like the Nova :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam
And considering my X18XE1 when it was completely standard in a straightline was on par with a Corsa Redtop kind of makes the red-top seem pointless when it gets its **** handed on the corners?
I'm going to play devils advocate.
In the the recent vids kindly posted by the lads who went to donny last weekend ( looked like a great day- good work with the vids :thumb: )we clearly see Olly H overtaking Oli D on the straight into the pit lane chicane. It would appear that if they are under full power Olly H's was faster in straight line. By all accounts he was up Oli D's **** before the overtake.
However into the chicane Olly H's car struggles with what appears to me to be a bit of slightly too fast in lift off induced oversteer which has him sliding a bit of control on the exit. Oli D, slower in remains in control and is faster out and closes up on Olly H.
By the next corner Olly H has drawn away again a few cars length but overcooks the entrance speed slightly and understeers off. I think that if Oli D hadn't of been black flagged and was still racing he would have prolly got past Olly H.
Now I wasn't there but from what I could see in the vids, the assertion made by me and others way back that big blocks dont handle as well as small blocks still has some relevance.
In conclusion I think its fair to say that as far as big blocks go the trade off for extra grunt is a car thats a bit more of a handfull thru the twisty stuff making it hader to drive consistently faster than a smallblock over a range of conditions.
There we go - I've settled the argument - end oflol lol er I think:confused: :D
You can't play devils advocate with Me & Oli Charles as we both sing from the same hymn sheet fortunately. :p
I did have a little understeer to compete with, and the abundance of lift off oversteer you saw was purely for entertainment purposes, as you'll see from my incar vids. I was purposely giving it large making it as fun as possible for the camcorders, for the laps where I wasn't doing so - watch previous vids :thumb:
However on Redgate, yes you're correct my entry speed was too fast, pushng me wide off the dry racing line (on 888s) which left me no alternative but to bail out onto the green stuff.
I know I'm about to be pounced on by smallblockers, but hey.
One thing I think we can all say, that attended the trackday - is that on the vids, the track surface looks lovely and dry, I can tell you now it wasn't it was, damp and greasy as hell lol
What people should think about more is balancing the weight no matter what it is front to back. If you ever achieved 50/50 and the ideal left to right balance then that slight ballast wouldn't mean so much. That's the holy grail as I see it.
Tbh the old handling arguement is old hat, i have always said this and appreciate either can be made to handle. But there is a reason how this can be yet the old arguement still continues...
When the big blocks first started to be fitted there was very few limited options available suspension wise, and this continued for years thus they never did handle the same and the arguement started for very valid reasons. Now the other oldskoolers like myself will agree that the last few years have seen many more so motorsport derived options filtering down to us normal people at a greatly reduced rate, thus making it more widely available.
With this in mind the arguement from days of old that has been passed down generations lol lol still burns on but actually doesnt have as much of a standing to be preached from as both options of engine can be setup to perform almost equally. The biggest let down is there are still far to many people who dont sort the cars properly, or have them for just plain road use on mediocre suspension then claim they dont handle when they wave the car at a track or a few sweeping roundabouts etc. For this reason the arguement will never die, but for those who actually make the effort to decide how to set the car up and fully appreciate what they have set it up for, they will always know the truth :)
My only fear is that there is also alot of people seeing all this adjustable stuff and slapping it on so the spec sheet reads awesomely but as they have fettled they have destroyed some of the true essence of the car and sometimes end up with a worse car then if they hadn't touched it. obviously those of you that i know are clued up enough as you actually use and abuse the cars to understand, but this doesnt count for the thousands out there who just buy stuff and slap it on without a clue
And relax lol lol
The available suspension technologies only cover up the symptoms of the problems; the issue is the chassis was never designed to be so front end heavy, even the small block motors have problems with lift off oversteer and you just make it even worse by putting more weight up the front end.
Yeah having shed loads of power offsets the speed lost in the corners and thats all good on a track with long straights but you get on something nice and tight and the small blocks will be on top :D
Its a shame the 1.8 hasnt transferred over so much from the Corsa C, there are loads of 1.8 SRi's running silly power and the conversion is far far simpler than going to a red-top.
Seriously, we do need another subject to argue about - this ones about shot and we're starting to agree with each other - wheres Dick Raper when you need him?lol :D
TBH the fact that it's Adams engine I'd go for that. Proven power, ready to be driven.
If you get an XE you've got a quick TLC (cambelt, water pump, tensioners etc).
From the lazy point of view small block FTUW.
I agree to an extent, but you will never achieve that in a FF setup chassis without adding a mahoosive amount of ballast to the rear, which undoubtedly would make the handling suffer (twin engine jobs probably have a far better weight distribution than FF's, but ive never seen one do well on a circuit). Only FR's running rear mounted gearboxes get anywhere near 50/50.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRoadGhost
But to add weight to your arguement, one thing Ive always done from the beginning which is different to a lot of other track goers on here is run a standard Nova battery hanging over the back end, rather than use a pissy little motorbike battery mounted centrally. I tend to upgrade my car one mod at a time so i know EXACTLY what its doing (going back to Dans arguement which was spot on) and this was one change that I could notice a definate improvement! Infact its something im going to force Dan to try as he plays around with his new found proper engine! lol
Bottom line is, without going over what anyone has said before, is to make a car go fast, you need a balance of handling and power, and I know for a fact from evidence of being in and watching Dars car, as well as fiddling about with mine, that the big block really doesn't make a difference if you do the right stuff to your chassis, and it really doesn't NEED to be loaded with adjustable stuff. Sometimes just knowing how your suspension works, a nice stiff chassis and selecting the correct tyre is all you need to have excellent results.
......Basically what Im trying to say is, small blocks are for homo's :)
Hang the funk on. £400-500 on a xe?! Where the funk are you buying that from? Is it gold plated? I paid £130 for my last one and its the best one i've had!
We're being ripped off big big big time if you are even thinking of buying one for that price,
Keep up Benn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn
Baxter can't afford to travel & collect but Colin Smith will deliver the full running gear & XE to his door for £500. Shafts, mounts, box etc..... Not bad.
I say big block it Baxter.
Personally I think most people with a brave pill can pilot a bigblock Nova through a set of bends as fast as a smallblock Nova (assume both have decent setup) but the heavier engine/box does blunt the driving characteristics. Novas are crap, but are addictive to drive, lessen the appeal of that experience & I wouldnt want one.
I can't wait till next year.
well what ever engine i get im going to stitch weld, and buy a set of gaz coilies,
but i might aswell go for the large block, as one will end up in there in time anyway, just cut out the middle man lol
Z18XE turbo! Be the first Nova :D
:confused: Do tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
Been preaching this for a long long time, but no funker listens lol yea OE batts are heavy, but the weight is ideal for rear end ballast. Also moving the washer bottle from directly off the suspention strut top to a central or even rear position will have miniscule positive effects on damper re-bound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
And yes, small block's are for homo's. But boosted one's aint :p
Id be inclined to wait until a c20xe came up locally and spend alot less than £500 (maybe £200-300) on a complete car, meaning you can see it running and then break and sell the other parts and make your money back. With that money you get back you could get the Shafts (22 spline) and mounts. meaning the remaining budget on big block tuning or chassis tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by craig green
All the direct 'on track' comparisons between big and small blocks are irrelevant is its largely driver dependent. You'd need to get a Stig style TG powerlap to be 99% sure which was the better car.
The further thing is the difference in weight between small and big block, i seem to recall a figure of 30kgs... thats not as much as every one assumes and is easily offsetable with lighter components and weight shifting.
Ok i didnt know he cant travel, but still a engine and box on a pallet is about 50-100, so that makes the xe £400. Thats a whole rotten car money.Quote:
Originally Posted by craig green
i can but at 15mpg in a diesel, it will get a bit costly lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Benn
remember tho, that includes conversion shafts, (£100+ now) mounts, ect:
iirc you had a whole cally xe once baxter, oh yeah you sold it me for £50 lol lol.
Pmsl lol lol
yeah but i needed it gone that day, as i left the country for two weeks the days after lolQuote:
Originally Posted by John H
Ah have conv shafts and mounts ect makes it a bit different.Quote:
Originally Posted by General Baxter
I'd say do it then. Xes are fun on road and track.
Gutted lolQuote:
Originally Posted by John H
I think it's possible to get 50/50 on a nova from ride heights & cage without the need to smuggle peter kay in the boot every time.
Easily possible if the fuel tank is mounted internally :thumb:
I believe you. Thousands wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRoadGhost
lmfao Mike, it would have to be a big tank, and it would have to be hanging right over the back end. And it would have to be constantly full lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike
EDIT. Probably possible with a lot of fettling IE bringing the engine back, moving the driver back ALA BTCC cars, which WERE near 50/50, especially as they lightened the cars past the weight limit and then loaded the ballast back on where they needed it.
We're talking standard ish FF here, not massive budget WRC or pre 200 BTCC lol
yeah but it didnot go with the special gearbox in it mike lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike
I know yeah, but thats what i mean, its so easily achievable with a 42 litre tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I'm not even sure you would need a huge budget if you really thought about what can be done to tilt the weight where it needs to go.
Imagine the front at a standard ride height but the rear sils almost touching the floor - I could do that for a clementine and a lump of coal; Job done.
Well thats just typical of the big block boys - never mind all the downsides of having weight. Instead lets do it the true homo way and attach big lumps of lead and acid filled plastic containers directly behind us to "balance" the car :roll:
Big block = crude and simple, no finesse, no style just a knuckles dragging along the ground approach to car handling. Obviously you prefer to have the thrill and excitement of a truck battery flying around the cockpit when you understeer off into the tyreslol Oh and of course I forgot- the real reason a Caterham R500 posted such a spectacular laptime to become Top Gear Car of the Year was all down to the clever postioning of the battery:D
Aint none of you heard of aero? Grip and handling without weight?:p
CP - not read many trackday reports from you of late - how come you aint proving all the big blockers wrong?