Thanks Ben, that Nova brings back happy memories for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
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Thanks Ben, that Nova brings back happy memories for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
How upto date is the parts list on that website ?
At a guess I'd say at least 6 years out of date.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonlem
Quote:
Originally Posted by novarally
did you get this kit collin? if so are you using it ect and can you give me a ring you got my number as i would love to see it in the flesh and take some mesurements ect of it as i have a full fiberglass wide arch kit for my 4x4 but im looking at going wider and the rears beeing fabed out of steel!
The kit has been dropped off at my mates house in Scotland, he's going to bring it down for me next time he's on his way South, so it might be a few weeks yet before I get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ste porter
You're welcome to come and have a look and a measure up.
lollolQuote:
Originally Posted by novarally
Not much then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by novarally
cheers mate your a star
Still looking at more ways to improve the Nova ready for next season.
Some lighter (and more powerful) front brakes are currently being researched, again taking the classic Mini racers for inspiration;
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ibrakes250.jpg
These are KAD 6-pot calipers with a 260mm vented disc. The caliper weighs only 1.23kg.
Although I have been harbouring a bit of a wild notion to look into the possibilities of using 10" Mini wheels, which would save loads of weight, as well as lowering the centre of gravity.
However, there could be all sorts of potential horrors in store with that route, as the geometry of a Nova was never designed to work with such small diameter wheels.
Physically, they'd be easy to fit on the back end, especially now I'm using Mini hubs anyway.
But the front might be trouble, with steering arms, knuckle etc. all in the way. And of course it would need much smaller brakes as well.
But look at these KAD 10" magnesium wheels, and tell me they aren't lovely;
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l.../silvermag.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...agclock200.jpg
and the 7" wide wheel weighs in at an incredible 2.52kg!!
The weight of those calipers is amazing! Well and the wheels!
Cant things sometimes be taken too far though Colin?
Never.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
================================================
I'm now looking into modifying the front brakes to use 6-pot motorcycle calipers, with a solid disc instead of a vented one.
I've yet to do my Google-research, but I've heard of one car that runs motorcycle calipers on the front, does anybody have any links they could send me for more details?
Please note - cars with motorcycle REAR brake conversions are of no interest, there are loads of them around! It's FRONT conversions I need to know about.
Thanks.
Dunno if you noticed but it was mentioned a while back on this very thread, we were under the impression you were running fairly lightweight calipers anyway though?
I'm currently using Wilwood Dynalites on the front, which weigh in at 2.04kg each (with the pads). So they are very lightweight calipers.Quote:
Originally Posted by MK999
It's really the discs which are the heavy bit. I'm using cross-drilled ventilated discs of 247mm x 20mm, and those are 4.2kg each.
Solid discs would save me some weight, especially with an alloy bell machined up to suit. And motorcycle calipers appeal as they are very lightweight, and more importantly, cheap and easily available.
Would you not suffer some brake fade on solid discs, or would it not be a problem for you?
Not a problem at all, brakes never get hot enough to worry about fading.Quote:
Originally Posted by MK999
did you see the stuff i put up in this thread colin, everyone was against it!
the thread i got it from was just some guy in a random location in the world using an alternative lol. nothing technical.
Post for Mark's benefit..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
Mark, the carbon fibre mirror is now on EBAY, it's geting ditched as a tiny part of the Autumn/Winter weight saving programme.
Shiny carbon fibre bits is purely detrimental to my bank balance actually lol Guessing it goes for way more than I can justify spending on it but I'll keep an eye, I do like carbon fibre bits :p
edit: just realised that's not even me, thought my memory of asking about it was a bit vague lol
Borrowed a split rim from the man who is going to make my new set of wheels so I can do some experimenting with size, fitting and offset.
This is an 8" x 13" wheel, ET -3;
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/003-22.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/004-17.jpg
It doesn't fit on the front as the caliper protrudes past the hub mounting face, and the wheel has a flat centre. So that will need addressing;
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/005-17.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/006-17.jpg
And I may replace the current aluminium bonnet vent with a carbon one;
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/002-20.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ort/003-23.jpg
Jesus i thought this thing was light enough, the way your going colin, your gonna have to tie it to the ground to save it floating off :p
Nice to see the Sprint C front wings are still on :d
Hope they stay
Sorry Edd, they're not stopping, I have taken a deposit on the full Irmscher kit and wheels!Quote:
Originally Posted by Edd
Sad news :( maybe not suited to your Nova tho
Has someone from the forum bought the kit then ?
make some vac form ones.........like RC cars.
a suggestion.
the mudguards/splash guards on the front.
could you replace them with ally or rubber. or is that against your regs?
Not permitted within the regulations, as they are an integral part of the body structure, and located within the wheel centres.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw156
I'm looking into reducing the weight of the rear beam assembly.
I plan to remove the spring seats, and cut away the parts where the bolts for the rear anti-roll bar would normally fit, and then re-weld the seams.
The bulk of the weight must be in the 'V' shaped part of the axle.
For those of you with an engineering/motorsport background (Mowgli/MK999 etc.), I'm curious to get some thoughts on to what extent of weight reduction I can get away with........obviously Vauxhall will have built the rear beam to be able to cope with 4 adults and their luggage, so maybe an all-up weight of 1300kg.
My Nova weighs less than 600kg, so the load-bearing needs will be a lot less.
Thoughts please?
its the twisting that will be the real killer on the beam as its designed to be an ARB aswell as the moving suspension parts...
Working on a generalisation/basic principles of design; The load bearing may need to be a lot less, but Vauxhall would have designed it not to snap, not to not bend.
Certain parts of F1 cars tend to break off because of random direction/impact forces from them being lightened, but the tolerance for the wheel centres is around 4mm under use, which means taking into consideration the wanted movements from the suspension etc, the components bending, added up, is less than 4mm.
This is where it gets complicated on a rear beam though, because rear beams DO bend, and twist about their mounting points, as part of their design, from a pure principle not taking this into account they purely move up and down staying entirely level, which if you've ever parked on a funny angle on a verge etc or jacked it up on one side, you will know is not the true case. This effect basically turns into your roll stiffness, hence we add rear ARB's, stiffening the beam, rather than the traditional independant suspension style with 2 'arms' twisting a tube.
Basically, what this means is; anything you take away from the beam, to retain the same handling characteristics, you will have to add again to increase the roll stiffness back up to where you want it. The way in which a component like this is normally lightened for motorsport is either a different material or a complete redesign, changing to component shape to be stiffer with less material used.
However there could be an advantage to be had if your bladed ARB is body mounted Colin, as you could lighten up the rear beam, almost making it IRS in the way it twists, and regain this in the ARB, I'd suggest using a larger diameter tube, and keeping your roll stiffness so the 'middle' is still the same as your current roll stiffness, rather than simply adjusting it up a lot and making the lower end of your adjustment useless. This would reduce your unsprung weight.
colin chapman used to 'add lightness', so he would keep lightening something, until it broke, and then use the previous one that was a bit stronger..... unfortunately, people got killed by this process.....
the rear beam isn't massively heavy, and as stu says, it has torsion properties. i'm sure people have made lightweight tube beams for novas, but i'm not sure they run slicks.
are you allowed to do anything with the rear beam mounts? cos if you can play with them, then an irs might be the way to go, but you will obviously need to come up with some sort of centre mount.
am i right in thinking that you can't mess with the shell structure between the axle centres?
Agreed, I spent many years testing "twist beam" axles V beam is stressed torsionally, any lightening holes, slots will create a stress raisers and possibly induce fatigue failures, would advise to look elsewhere, away from the V beam;) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Use to work for a company that made axles for Ford Fiesta, Escort, more recently Current Honda Civic;)
A few extracts from the MSA's 'Hillclimb and Sprint' regulations, which I need to comply with;Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli
12.4.1 The chassis or unitary construction must remain to the manufacturer's original specification in construction and material withon the wheel hub centres. Re-positioning of suspension pick-up points and engine mountings are permitted.
12.8.2 The original type of suspension must be maintained (e.g. twin wishbone set-up cannot replace a single wishbone suspension; a sliding pillar cannot be replaced by a MacPherson strut; a trailing link cannot be replaced by wishbones or coaxial springing).
12.8.3 A live rear axle may not be replaced by an independent system or De Dion.
12.8.5 Suspension pick-up point positions may be altered, providing the suspension system is maintained as being the original type.
i'm not sure how much weight could be saved & still keep some sort of strength in it, but if you are up against minis , i'd put money on the fact that their rear subframe has been replaced by some amazingly flimsy beam axle.
i reckon you could make something out of round tube, but i'm really not sure how you'd keep the rear camber fixed.
what does a standard beam weigh??
Yes, the quick Minis all use a beam axle, some of them are using titanium;Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli
http://www.force-racing.co.uk/rear-suspension/
If I remember rightly the Nova rear beam, once stripped of anti-roll bar and stub axles, weighs about 13kg, so there probably isn't a lot of scope for dramatic lightening.
In view of what people have said about the twisting forces, I'm inclined to go with my original plan and just take off the excess brackets and non-structural metal to be on the safe side.
Much as I would like to fabricate a BTCC-style multi-adjustable set-up, it might be a cost too far!
is the actual rear suspension setup working to your liking? cos it might be a case of working with what you've got, as the mini rear beams are probably 2 grand all in, and thats a lot of money for maybe 5-8kg gains.
with the amount of stuff you've got i would say experiment. having the proper anti roll bar screams out to me you should try "weakening/lightening" one alot just to see what its like
i've rebuilt bike calipers before, had a gsxr with 6 pots on, the calipers split in halp with only o-rings to seal them where the flid passes from side to side. could you not get a spacer made to go in the centre of the caliper in that gap to widen them up to fit car discs? cant see why this wouldnt work. mine had standard tociko 6 pots on but i've seen a few track bikes with pretech calipers fitted, these thinks are fookin awesome on bikes and lighter than stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by novarally
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-CBR-900-...item3a5f8843a9
Thanks Alan, that's very useful information. I haven't heard of Pretech before, but I shall do some investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanH
Rather than spacing the caliper to fit a car disc, the plan is to machine a steel disc to suit the caliper. The disc can be replaced frequently if that proves necessary.
Alternatively I need to look into whether there's a way of mounting a suitable sized motorcycle disc onto a bell to suit a car hub......
colin. you could go the other way, and actually cut material from the pad & leave the disc intact... for the miles you do in a season, i think they'd last quite well
Fair point, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli
I'm still tempted to get a thin disc machined though, just to save the weight.