If Piper cams own Kent Cams then it's possibly not a silly place to start.
I was always under the impression that Quaife offered both plate and ATB type diffs, hence the reason we asked for their advice on fitment.
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If Piper cams own Kent Cams then it's possibly not a silly place to start.
I was always under the impression that Quaife offered both plate and ATB type diffs, hence the reason we asked for their advice on fitment.
Nope; only in the last few years this buyout has happened. I need to be careful what I say here as I've not even driven a FWD car with an LSD of any type BUT I'm told an ATB is not bullet proof and you still need to be mindful driving it hard; whereas the plate type only wears on the transition between open-locked locked-open.
Quaife used to offer just ATB style diffs
3 years ago they bought out Tran-X - I assume to acquire the plate diff tooling / product range / brand as probably cheaper than developing their own.
They now offer TranX branded plate diffs and Quaife branded ATB diffs. As an aside, the technical guys at TranX left and set up 3J driveline and make the NXG diff.
I run a TranX in the stage rallycar. I did do an events with an ATB but didnt like it at all. I like to "lean" on the diff out of slippery 2nd gear type corners and let it tighten the line but the ATB didnt do this.
Obviously a TranX costs more to run as it has the wearable plates but I would think a road/track car would do 2k-3k miles before being needed as its not really worked *that* much compared to the rallycar. It also depends how much preload is added - mine is tight enough to drive on one shaft and get me out of a stage (as proved in barbados where we did around 8 stage miles and 12 road miles to get back to service) although that really f*cks the plates.
Paul..
Thanks for the info Paul.
I did nearly 4,500 miles last year, I'm also not sure I've got the driving skill to be able to tell the difference between the 2 diffs if I'm honest. I just don't want it to spin the inside wheel out of hairpins and having been in Elf's car his ATB stops this from happening.
I really hate taking the box apart and dropping driveshafts out to change diff plates. I wanna drive it not fix it!!! Haha
I think if you are after ultimate lap times go with a plate diff ,if you just want an improvement on an open diff and limited maintainance then go with an ATB .my plate diff is fantastic ,but is a handful in damp conditions ,it's setup very tight and needed new plates after a season and a half
Thanks for the input Mr Mex, this is exactly what the guy at Donny said on Saturday. I don't think I'm good enough to drive the car hard enough to warrant a plate diff, plus Iain's ATB was a handful in the wet at Snet, I was on the power a lot earlier out of corners (may have been due to the crappy tyres he was running) I appreciate that ATB's aren't exactly fit and forget but from what I've read they're more fit and forget than the plate ones, I've also heard from Harvey that his plate diff clatters a little and I won't be able to handle that noise!!!
An interesting debate on diffs, can I suggest you try to persuade Iain to let you have a run out in his car with the ATB, then maybe find someone who'll let you try their car with a plated diff fitted. That would I hope make it a little easier to make an informed decision, shouldn't it? Better start brushing up on your negotiating skills... :thumb:
Loving the direction your re-build is going in, I'll be following with added interest.
On the subject of your pedal box, I was looking at this option for my build, but an put off by the fact the whole assembly sits so far off to the left, especially as I've gone to a fair amount of effort to get the seat and steering wheel lined up. Imagine then my surprised when you've seemingly put the assembly even further over to the left...
Are you sure this is a good decision (i.e. have you sat behind the wheel)?
As a matter of interest I'm giving serious consideration to retaining the standard throttle (albeit after a bit of custom bending) and making up my own two pedal assembly mounted right up against the base of the inner wheel arch, but then I'm a masochist who's apparently trying to make even more work for himself....
Love the video by the way, definitely better from the inside mounting point.
Getting Iain to let my drive his car would be harder than convincing my wife to perform a special Christmas performance on the pink oboe!!
However I could probably tempt him with cheese-less pizza. I need to drive one before making a final decision.
As for the pedal box I just put it where it looked right, it feels ok for me when sat in the drivers seat, that being said the entire driving position need to be played around with so nothing is final.
Not enough porn on here anymore so thought I'd add some
checking valve clearances, we've got an issue on the inlet valves, with the buckets and a 150' shim we've still got a valve clearance of 80'. Some more investigation needed here, we're checking the seat heights as we're not sure if the seats have been cut correctly.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...7C44937D09.jpg
Bit of vac testing!! Darren just likes to see the sucker suck.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...DB0D52D2A4.jpg
Had to drill out one broken stud and tap the other 4 as they were a bit pooey.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...713905854D.jpg
Decking
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...FD3CC1A1BA.jpg
Faced the bottom of the block aswell, will get my sump faced before it's fitted aswell, give it every chance of sealing!!
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...482E8F2972.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...11B1E71CCA.jpg
CC'ing for compression ratio, currently at 12.75:1 little bit of work to get to 12.5:1
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...5C7F1F7A0E.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...B7CC649D7A.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...10A15EEE71.jpg
Chambers and ports look good.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...C2AA777F8B.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...5142405F6C.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...E4867B2EB0.jpg
Shiney, even took the core plugs out the head to make sure everything is correct.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...8065801324.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ECE1C3E8DB.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...C87C514C0A.jpg
Just need to solve the valve clearance questions and we can look to get something built.
Are you use PH4 or PH5 Newman cams ? . I've just got a PH3 288 for my 1.4 8 valve.
PH5's mate. I'm told they're a little tasty!!!
Just checked out the spec on the PH5's (yes I'm a full blooded anorak, what can I say!), so your not going to be pussy footing round the track then, with a rev range of 4 to 8k you'll need to get the lead boots on next year :eek:
Love the head, I've got my own Coscast stripped down and just begging to be given the same treatment, if you don't mind me asking who did the work, your engine builder or someone else?
Have I missed your proposed engine spec? If not, I don't suppose you'd like to give all us slavering types a run down of your build plans, slurp!
Keep up the good work.
Hey Mr Tall, I'm not gonna go into all the hassle I had with the start of the engine build it's well documented on here!!! but as far as I know the initial headwork was carried out by Steveboyslim on here, with hand finishing by He who must not be named, I believe Mr Steve has the Swindon Racing Engines jigs to do the port boring and then the chambers and ports finished by The dark lord by hand.
Despite me pointing out flaws in He who shall remain nameless' business practices and some of the quality of parts he was using for my engine, the boys at Modus have given the head work the double thumbs up and are really impressed with it.
The basic run down is :-
Early XE block
86.5mm super tech forged pistons
Williams rods
Early crank
12.5:1 CR
Coscast head port bored to SRE specs (So I'm told)
Newman PH5 inlet and exhaust cams
+1mm wasted stem inlet and exhaust valves
solid buckets with Piper double valve springs
Modus lightened flywheel
Helix 4 paddle clutch and cover plate
Everything is being balanced
All running through my Jenvey direct to head Throttle bodies with blue VXR injectors
Mapping and running in will be by Track and Road
The levels of detail Darren and Jay at Modus work to are amazing, everything has been stripped, all oil galleries scrubbed, the engine will be cleaner than when it left Vauxhall!!
I'm not sure on power output, the old XE I built with QED Q42 cams, no real head work and 11:1 CR made 201 at the wheels so I'd say maybe 225 at the crank, these PH5's are more brutal and the CR is higher along with the head work I'd hope to see over 230 at the crank but don't hold out any hopes regarding final power.
I wouldn't be surprised if the head was done by Neil Roper ,I am led to believe he is known by Steve and is one of the best in the business
Possibly mate, I don't know exactly who did it but it is pretty bloody good!!
We'll see soon enough hoping to be in the car for end of Feb!!
Good spec on that engine! What you gonna rev it to?
Thanks mate, rev limit will depend on the power curve when we map it. The balancing will be good enough for 10k but the crank wont do that, reading up on the cam info 4-8, I'm guessing somewhere at around 8250 but we'll see. It scares me revving that high so I'll not be going up there too often!! hahaha
Nice! Should be a barrel of fun when it's ready.
Once it's all working i wanna see vid's with IaIn behind you on track...
I'll be honest I'm surprised we weren't black flagged at Snet & Donny, it was blatant that we were having a little go with each other and it's supposed to be no racing!!!
Iain has the edge at the minute though, bigger balls I think, I'll just have to catch him down the straights!!!
Ha sounds like a very fun day!
I think it's easy to forget how much longer has been using his nova in anger and the shear amount of track days he has done in the car as well. He knows the thing inside out.
This engine build sounds awesome
If you knife edged the crank along with balancing, ARP mains with doweling / girdle no reason why 9k couldn't be reliable
The Astra engine is set to 8200 but thats partly because it was still being run in when mapped due to time constraints.
It made 227 flywheel and 177lb/ft - graph below.. Its an SBD 230kit on solids / TBs etc. Thats with std valves and a little hand porting. Yours should make more if the cam profile works well.
http://www.teamrallymarshal.co.uk/ga...TE_Build63.jpg
Paul..
Thanks for the info Paul, I would be over the moon with 230!! Anything more will be a nice little bonus!! So I'm encouraged to see that graph and hear the spec that produced it!!
Mr Ghost, I can knife edge the crank easily enough but with the cams listed 4-8 I don't know if 9 is needed!! I've also just bought brand new main cap bolts!!
Also what do you mean by girdle?!? A support for the main caps?!? Not heard of those before?!?
Cams can be listed in my instance (currently) 1500-6500; that didn't stop peak power being at over 8.5 ~ it's everything else that can characterise power curve. Climbing the revs is gonna come down to how well the harmonics can be regulated (failures aside only wear rates increase).
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Photo0651.jpg
Yeah I get your point!! I'll speak to Darren tomorrow, I don't think we're balanced up yet so no extra work!!
And 9k is ok with a standard crank if we need to go that high?!?
Where can I get a girdle from?! Is it a standard part on something?!?
You shouldn't need to go near 9000 tbh - mine peaks at 8260 (ish - 244 bhp and 184lb/ft) and makes torque and power in the right places for where I need it.... Sure, if I fiddled about I could probably get it over 250 - but for reliability and driveability (some road use) it just doesn't make sense.
Thanks Will, what you've said mirrors the conversation I've just had on the phone with Jay. At the end of the day I want realiable solid power.
What basic spec gave you those figures?
?
Ahhh, now you mention it I seem to remember those earlier posts, albeit quite a long time back, tbh I think all the XE bad news posts have started to merge into one...lol or should that be... :cry:?Quote:
Hey Mr Tall, I'm not gonna go into all the hassle I had with the start of the engine build it's well documented on here!!!
Still the subsequent comments about the build have been very instructive, as for me I'd be happy to see something north of 200bhp so long as it has a big fat torque curve to aid poking the thing up the road pdq.
Be interesting to hear any comments about dry sump v's standard wet sump, especially on a track day/race car where long bends are more likely to result in oil starvation? Bring it on guys...
Cool, thanks for clearing the port boring up Steve.
As you say and we seem to all agree my end, we're not sure there is a huge gain to be made by going up to 9k, the other problems it presents really outweigh the possible gains. I've no inclination to start fitting dry sumps for the sake of 5 bhp.
Not sure if you've seen my other thread about valve clearances?!? Wondered what your input on it would be?
Mr Tall, I'm just happy it's all getting sorted and built!!! Anywhere around 230 and reliable will make me very happy!!
The dry sump really depends on what tyres you are going to use ,I managed to kill a 1400 8v at Lydden hill using slicks ,it was a baffled sump but Chessons is a long bend .so if you intend to use decent tyres On Tarmac i would suggest going he dry sump route ,failing that an Accusump
I'm using R888's semi slicks, I've not had a baffled sump and so far not experienced any oil pressure problems. that being said the only track with any hard long right handers, other than the right in Craners at Donny, which when turning in at 110 I wasn't looking at the gauge, Mike didn't flag anything up and as co-pilot it was his job to monitor while I was holding on to the steering wheel for dear life!!
My sump for the new engine is on it's way to Mr Dewis (from Mig) to be baffled, Iain has this done to his and hasn't had any oil pressure problems, he uses slicks too!!
Steve; gonna have to disagree that taking mass off a crank wouldn't facilitate a more reliable faster spinning engine. Dry sump isn't just for improved oil circulation, it allows the components to operate in a vacuum.
Steve do you still have access to steel inner / outers?
On another note, don't think I said above but now you mention it Mr Ghost, I have the inner steel gear for sure but will need to check the outer!! Thanks for the reminder
Darren sent these over today, think he's getting carried away and starting to enjoy himself!!
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...19508638_n.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3A2936176C.jpg
I had asked for pink but he said there were fresh out!!!
Bores look perfect; 86.50mm?