Painting questions

[fix]

Hi im gonna respray my nova when the weather decides to sort itself out and warms up abit.

Do i really need to primer the car first? The paint job on it now was done a couple of years ago and isnt flakey but is dull and there are runs on the rear quarters, i know they will need flattening off but do i really need to primer the whole car?

Also can i get away with spraying the bay with the engine still in place? I know this isnt ideal but would save me dropping it out


Thanks

[Jack]

Assuming its staying the same colour, you should be fine with flattening it all back and redoing the top coats.

[fix]

Yep keeping the same colour less hassle that way,the last paint job looks like 2k so shouldnt have a reaction problem.

What about spraying the bay with the engine in?

Ta

[meritlover]

What about spraying the bay with the engine in?



just no.
dont do it. it never looks good. it always looks over sprayed. the wiring, engine, servo all gets in the way. even painted over strut tops looks awefull and shoddy.

do not do go to the bother of doing a decent respray and then bodge it.

[Stuart]

tbh for the minimal cost of primer I'd chuck a couple of coats on.... plus it should "garuntee" the top coats wont react with the underlying paint.

[fix]

Fair enough meritlover i didnt think it'd really be possible just thought id ask!

It was so hard getting the engine in without a crane last time didnt want to have to go through that again (piece of wood over the bay,trolley jack ontop with with rope round it tied to then engine then up we went)


And i think it may well be worth doing a few blows of primer,will a couple of layers do?

Also whats this etching primer i hear about is it that good for preventing rust?

[Stuart]

etch will only really help prevent rust where you paint it on bare metal...

When I sprayed my nova I did 2 reasonably thick coats of high build primer and flatted it back.

I'd never use normal primer again tbh :D

[fix]

Yep high build primer is a must ill defo be buying tha

Ive got some oxide primer in cans that i suppose i could spray the arches with as theyre just starting to get rusty and ill be taking them back to metal,then spray over with high build

[sealeyA1]

etch primer - for bare metal
high build primer - for putting over filler/repairs
wet on wet primer - for use on new panels or small repairs wih no filler

you shouldnt need to prime the car again if your not going to break through the old paint top coat.

'trust me i'm a painter'

[fix]

Im putting replacement doors on which currently have lacquer peeling off so i was gonna take them back all the way by shot blasting and maybe some nitromorse so i guess i could use etch primer on them

I certainly dont intend on breaking through the paint thats on the car as thats just gonna create more work for myself,it was only sprayed a few years ago (badly) but looks like 2k.

So i was just gonna get rid of the runs on the arches with compound and probably sand paper.Theres one smallish crack in the paintwork on the boot so i was gonna fill over it then primer over that (maybe just using a rattle can if thats the only bit getting done)

Obviously use plastic primer on the bumpers and thats about it!


There arent many imperfection on the car other than whats mentioned so i guess i can get away without high build primer? ta

[Mike]

you shouldnt need to prime the car again if your not going to break through the old paint top coat.

'trust me i'm a painter'

*cough* rough! *cough*

The primer & undercoat give a key for the base and top coat to adhere to.

[lee coley]

^^wrong

[lee coley]

if the panel has no repairs on it then no need for primer

[meritlover]

its the 'flatted' surface that gives the key. the primer is there to prepare the surface.
for example, good luck spraying primer on to a gloss or un-flatted finish!
please.

[Mike]

^^wrong

Why? You cannot simpy spray over an finished vehicle body as the paint will devlope runs, sags and cissing. FACT.

I am a Decorator by trade, i paint and spray things day in day out. I think you'll find I know what im talking about :thumb:

You apply a primer or an undercoat, flat it back (de-nib) and apply your first coat, then build up the paint system on top of that.

EDIT: Yes you could simply flatten back the paint on the shell and re-coat, IMO thats a bit rough tho. Personally id primer the entire vehicle regardless of repairs done or not, and build up a paint system ontop of a sound base coat (Basecoat being primer)

[lee coley]

im a painter by trade (vehicle refinisher) so ive been painting cars wrong for 8 years?

[Mike]

im a painter by trade (vehicle refinisher) so ive been painting cars wrong for 8 years?

You must have been if didnt know that Primer and undercoat "key" a surface, the same as abrading "keys" a surface. By "key" i mean gives a sound surface for a paint system to adhere to.

Spraying over a flattend back surface is asking for trouble. Bubbling, flaking and possible bitiness if its not been flattened back "enough". Obvoiusly enough is personal preference to the prepper. But if the prepper doesnt know what there doing, then they shouldnt be doing it at all :thumb:

[lee coley]

If you have a panel to paint like a bonnet that has a scratch in it you sand/block the paint untill feather'd out then apply primer to the repaired area then flat the primer and apply the colour to the repaired area and clear the hole panel.

Or if using direct gloss paint colour the hole panel.

[sealeyA1]

if your wrong yoza them so am i, ive been painting CARS for 11 years tho(think of all the cars ive painted wrong eh)
think yall find painting doors and painting cars are two dffrerent things mike, if you are doing a metallic then you have to fade the new colour into the old colour before applying a lacquer topcoat over the whole area therefore making it impossible if you prime/undercoat the whole surface.
if the old paint work is good all you need to do is scotch brite the panel for it to key the new paint.

[Mike]

think yall find painting doors and painting cars are two dffrerent things mike

The paint system can differ yes, the application and preperation dont :thumb: Decorators dont just paint via brush these days either, they spray ;) using the same spray equipment found in a bodyshop too :)

Were not talking metallics, were talking base colours BTW.

And just to add, i have to sprayed vehicles whilst working in motorsport (pre-carrer change days) and never had any issues by primering them first.

There is more then one to apply paint via spray you know despite what you know or have learned from your bodyshop colleagues/college/uni etc

[sealeyA1]

you still do not need to prime a perfectly good surface if flatted with the right papers....................

[Mike]

Does that include a NEW bare metal surface then ;)

What im saying is, there is'nt exactly a gospel way so to speak.

[sealeyA1]

in vehicle paintng a perfectly good surface equates to a good lacquared /glossed finish that you scuff with scotch brite pad till dull.

a bare metal surface needs etch primer, wet on wet (high build if you intend on flatting it down again)then your basecoat (colour of vehicle)which is matt/satin finish,
then a lacquer coat is applyed to give it the shine.

therefore as he said his paint work was in good condition then it wouldnt need priming again.

more paint coats = brittle paint = stone chips.

[fix]

Lol now now everyone done be arguing on my part!

The paint finish on my car is pretty rubbish ie dull with some runs on the rear quarters,which as ive said will have to be flatted down so its possible they will need priming regardless

The actual condition of the paint work is fine,ie no flaking at all the paint is firmly stuck to the car,and the job is only 2 years old if that.

If priming the whole car will get rid of the odd imperfection that i cant see but is there then ill do it,if not then i suppose i wont

Id just rather do the right thing so my paint job last as long as possible!

[lee coley]

sort the rust and the runs and then you will see how much you have to prime.

you got a location

[fix]

Fair enough well not alots gonna happen till this weather improves! Im from Bradford mate

[sealeyA1]

ha ha im sure all will be fine dude, just think yall get away with spot priing small areas rater than needing to prime the whole car again, that was the point i was trying to get at.
making ya self more work.

[fix]

Yep i dont wanna be making myself more work,i want a decent job but dont want to be doing things that arent really needed.

So for on my rear arches that have abit of surface rust on them can i get back down to metal then just use red oxide primer from a rattle can on the lip of them?

[shy witness]

is there not problems now but with painting away from the bodyshop ............because of the new water based paints that you have to use.

i've been hearing all sorts of issues with getting the basecoat to dry/harden properly.

have any of yous got any pointers on this subject????????

i do a bit of painting myself at work..but it would be with synthetic coach paint more than anything.

i've painted a good few cars with 2k etc.....but i've only ever painted and laquered 2 cars before.

i'll have to paint my own nova..........but this new waterbased stuff sounds like a bit of a disaster

[fix]

Dont use waterbased then use 2k!

[shy witness]

you cant buy 2k any more but over here in northern ireland.

motorfactors/paint specialists dont stock it any more.

you can still buy basic colours...in certain makes of paint.......but you cant buy colour matches off your cars paint codes....theyre no longer available.......and havent been for a few months....its all waterbased now because of health and safety nonsense.

i would of thought that the same problems would be occuring on the mainland aswell.

[fix]

2k is pretty much readily available here though yes over time i can imagine its gonna be harder to get hold of

[lee coley]

2k = solvent base coat
2 pack = direct gloss/clear coat

People get confused between 2k and 2 pack

2 pack is still available and will be for a long time.

Aqua/water base coat has taken over from solvent (2k) but most body shops have used aqua base for 10 years or so.

Water based paint is very good as long as you have heat.

[sealeyA1]

yeah as yoza said dont attempt using water if ya ainy got any heat and air flow, as it is mainly warm air flow that dries the waterbase.

you should be abe to get solvent base coat but as i dont live in ireland i guess you know moe about that over there.

[NovaLad]

2 pac? lol

[DW-Nova]

Have you started to prep your car for paint yet? Myself i would machine flat the entire car with a fairly co**** then obviously do the normal prep with finer grades by hand, i would spray the car with primer to be honest, on the imperfections i'd use some high build probably but it's very hard to say without seeing the car.

[DW-Nova]

yeh also as said above stay away from water base as it takes a while to dry without an oven therfore giving more chance for dust and other bits to settle onto the paint.

[fix]

Nope i havent done anything yet the weathers so poor and cold at tho mo its just not worth it,when the weather improves ill start prepping.

My mate says the best thing to do is use nitomorse on the paint to get it all the way back to metal then use high build primer.

Anyway ill get a couple of pics up!

[DW-Nova]

You really dont need to go using nitromors if you just want to repaint it unless the body in nackered, just flat, prime, paint and polish.

[fix]

Fair enough that'd be alot easier if i didnt have to nitromorse,theres very little rust only abit on the arches etc so i suppose ill take those bits back to metal only ta