View Full Version : gte/gsi engines and cat converters...
Now I'm not that clued up on cat pipes and the higher spec novas but I believe that the GTE engine didnt have a lambda sensor or need a cat converter whereas the gsi engine did?
:confused:
Now Ive got a 1600 engine sitting in me garage for the project but tbh I aint looked at it since picking it up and need to knwo how I can tell if its GSi/GTE one. Is it down to serial numbers or is it as obvious as looking at the top and seeing a GTE as apposed to a GSi sticker!
:p
Also - if it is a Gsi one do I need a cat converter (re mot's) bearing in mind Ive also got a full stainless system and I'm 99% sure its decat.
Ade
andy_srt40
05-03-08, 08:12 AM
they both say 1.6 injection on the top! lol
there are a few visual differences though, but the easiest was ios to check the engine numbers as i've had too supposed gte engines now that have had varuious gsi bits chucked on them over the years
so on the gearbox end of the engine on the exhaust side of the head there will be an engine number stamped in the top of the block,
the first 5 digits will read E16SE for a gte engine and C16SE for the gsi the C denotes the fact it has a cat
other differences are the cam covers iirc the gsi had a painted 1.6 injection cam cover and the gte had a moulded/stamped 1.6 injection cam cover
the dizzy's are differenct too i think most gte's had long orange capped dizzy where the gsi's had a shorter looking black dizzy, and some really late gsi's ran dispac i think
your best bet is with the engine number though mate
Also - if it is a Gsi one do I need a cat converter (re mot's) bearing in mind Ive also got a full stainless system and I'm 99% sure its decat.
Ade
What reg is your car?
but it was only the late gsi's that had the c16se , most had the e16se
visual ways can be , gte tended to have the 1.6 injection cast into the rocker cover where gsi had it jujst printed on
and gte had round cambelt cover and gsi had square ,
but id prob say the even some of them were mixed up lol , as jack said how old is your car ? may not require a cat test anyhow
meritlover
05-03-08, 09:56 AM
yes, just because the car has a cat doesnt mean it has to be tested as having one. it all goes on the year of manufacture.
vauxhall started fitting CATs on novas around H plate,
but depending on year of car, is to what emissions test it has to pass!
doesnt have to have a CAT fitted, just has to pass test for that age of vehicle, try fitting your cat bypass pipe and go for a emmisions test/check
see what happens!
If it has an air flow meter connected to a big sqaure airbox, pictured on the left below, it WONT have a CAT :thumb:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/161.jpg
Ive worked on 3 different E16SE engines these last few weeks, all of which had black dizzy caps, all of which were non CAT engines, IMO colour of the dizzy is an inaccurate way to tell. AFM is accurate, as an AFM'd will not have a 02 sensor in the exhaust for the ECU to adjust itself as the AFM does that, albeit and very older/basic way around using an 02 sensor. Or something like that lol
Mike.
No e16se's had cats fitted....
And c16se's were dispak, so dizzy type/colour is irrelevant.
craig green
06-03-08, 10:01 AM
vauxhall started fitting CATs on novas around H plate,
Not correct. Few J platers & some K platers got the C16SE engine (cat) model.
Not correct. Few J platers & some K platers got the C16SE engine (cat) model.
i was meaning novas in general had CATs fitted from H plate,
not just the 1.6 engine,
the main point was they were not needed for mot till 1992
to pass emissions test.
Only the injection models though, J,K & L reg SR's (carb engines) never had CAT's
craig green
06-03-08, 11:07 AM
1.2 & 1.4 Spi's were launched in 92 on a J reg IIRC. They had Cats. As did the SRi's.
L reg SR's (carb engines)
L reg SR will be subjected to the BET, so have to go through tougher emissions. I'm not sure it would pass.
How does a K reg SR pass the MOT without a cat as i've been told my 1992 K reg car will have to go through a cat test?
Because it has an old carb engine fitted Lee.
Carb engines dont run cat's.
craig green
06-03-08, 05:05 PM
Seeing as Renault sold R 5 Prima's & Campus models well into 95/96 which were carbed, must have meant there were loop holes surrounding some models.
Pretty sure Ford Fiestas were still sold with those god awfull OHV rattle box carb engines upto about P reg.
Sounds about right yeah.
A carb engine would probably destroy a cat in no time, due to the a/f mix not being metered as precisely as efi. The remaining bit of a rich mix will detonate when it meets a red hot cat.....
ian.sutton
06-03-08, 05:23 PM
so would a K reg 2litre 16v need a cat to pass MOT?
Sorry for the "slight" hijack
Say the engine is a 1990, and see what the tester says... Lol
You might be ok.
so would a K reg 2litre 16v need a cat to pass MOT?
Sorry for the "slight" hijack
You'd need to prove the engine is from a a pre-august 1992 car.
How does a K reg SR pass the MOT without a cat as i've been told my 1992 K reg car will have to go through a cat test?
Was just about to say, my old K reg SR passed its MOT fine with no cat
Just had a looong googling session, you'd be surprised (well perhaps not) at the amount of mis-information there is out there about catalytic converters lol
From what I can figure that people have been told from VOSA (so not "I think its this" or "my mate said that"), cars first registered after 01/08/92 have to undergo the BET ("cat" test). Some cars that didn't have a cat as standard are exempt - so the non-cat 1.4SR will no doubt be one - but ALL cars from a certain date require a cat (couldn't find a reliable source for this date though, I think its 94 or 96)
ian.sutton
06-03-08, 06:19 PM
You'd need to prove the engine is from a a pre-august 1992 car.
Thankyou :thumb: ;)
at last somebody talking sense "mr razorjack" :)
here goes!!!!!!!!!!
cars before 1st august 1992 non cat test (doesnt mater if it has a cat fitted or not just has to pass the test)
has to pass a test of CO -3.5% and HC -1200ppm
cars after 1st of august 1992 till 31st july 1994
has to pass a test of CO -0.3% and HC -200ppm, lambda -0.97 to 1.03
like i have been trying to say from start of thread,
you could have a cat fitted on a car before 1st august 1992 and dont need it to pass mot test (so you could take it off, and still be below 3.5% co)
so if you have a nova before that reg date, with any engine in it as long as the emmisions are below those limits it does not need a cat
vauxhall did fit CATs before 1st aug 1992 but wasnt really needed to pass test
Correctamundo. I believe the reason GM were fitting cats to pre-92 cars was to comply with european regulations, but either way thats an aside.
Can someone with a K or L-reg Nova SR (or other carb'd, non-cat engine'd Nova) post their emissions results from their last MOT?
ALL carb nova's have to comform to the pre 1992 emissions regulations.
Also, gm fitting cats to pre 92 cars makes them look well "cool" on the spec brochure etc,Lol.
Can someone with a K or L-reg Nova SR (or other carb'd, non-cat engine'd Nova) post their emissions results from their last MOT?
K reg SR - MOT test date October 14th 2002 -
C0 - 3.50% VOL 0.12% = PASS
HC - 1200ppm VOL 203ppm vol = PASS
Yep.
Old pre 1992 regulations...
Because its a carb engine :)
so would a K reg 2litre 16v need a cat to pass MOT?
Sorry for the "slight" hijack
You'd need to prove the engine is from a a pre-august 1992 car.
no you dont, if you've fitted a valver, it dont have to prove nothing, as the engine/car combo wont be on the emissions computer...
read this ;)
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/7.3%20Emmissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20Passenger%20Cars%201992-2002.pdf
Aye, 2.0 Nova's were never factory built
no you dont, if you've fitted a valver, it dont have to prove nothing, as the engine/car combo wont be on the emissions computer...
read this ;)
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/7.3%20Emmissions%20-%20Spark%20Ignition%20-%20Passenger%20Cars%201992-2002.pdf
Correct.
But try telling the place i had my MOT done that lollol
Correct.
But try telling the place i had my MOT done that lollol
i would of gone a different one then, asd they aint doing thing correctly..
i would of printed that off, and said "GO ****ING LOOK AT YOUR INSPECTION BOOK" lol
Aye, 2.0 Nova's were never factory built
but due to the shear amount of them, you would think they are lol
Yep.
Old pre 1992 regulations...
Because its a carb engine :)
So if I was to fit twin 45's..............
Lol, in theory it would go through yep.
As soon as the tester see's it's fitted with carbs.
Mine went through with a twin 40 1400 fitted....
Non cat test.
spike24
08-03-08, 04:16 AM
thats right, dont matter what engine your running, if its a 93 nova ya need a cat for m.o.t. but any thing before that year and your cool for m.o.t unless your running an engine with savage high emissions.
if its a 93 nova ya need a cat for m.o.t
No you dont, doesnt matter what year the car is, the emissions part of the test of the engine. If its an '89 non cat engine in a '93 car it should still be tested as a non cat vehicle.
womble sri
08-03-08, 09:44 AM
i always thought it was whatever was oldest. the bet test isnt actually that tough my sri went straight through with a decat and that was a J 92
No you dont, doesnt matter what year the car is, the emissions part of the test of the engine. If its an '89 non cat engine in a '93 car it should still be tested as a non cat vehicle.
no mate your'e wrong, spike24 is right
the vehicle is tested as it is
if you have fitted a ecotec in a 1989 nova, it is tested as a
non cat test (3.5% CO) because of the age and plate of the car,
just has to pass on that level
OK - sorry for delay in replying - I actually forgot I posted this lol
My car is a J reg - original engine is a 1.2 (carb) so no cat
HOWEVER I bought a few years ago a GTE (I think) engine. it wasnt in the car at the time and only cost ?50 but I knew the guy so trust him when he said it runs okay. It's currently buried at the back of my garage under a ton of plastic wrap so I cant dig out the engine number at the moment but for MOT purposes if I fitten a GTE (non cat) engine into a 1992 car that could - based on it's age be classed as needing a cat (even though the original car didnt have one) - will it be okay.
It wouldnt need a cat.
Womble~Yours passed with a decat because j-platers dont need a cat emissions test :)
no mate your'e wrong, spike24 is right
the vehicle is tested as it is
if you have fitted a ecotec in a 1989 nova, it is tested as a
non cat test (3.5% CO) because of the age and plate of the car,
just has to pass on that level
NO your wrong, read the link i posted before, from the DVLA MOT testing book..
anything pre95, if it doesn't have an engine the car came with, then it will be tested as NON CAT
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