View Full Version : legal question??
what should someone expect to get for the following
driving without insurance
drink driving
aggrevated twoc
criminal damage
now before anyone starts all i want is answers so keep your stupid comments to yourself or ill request for the thread to be locked
DTR-DEVIL
13-02-08, 01:11 PM
Ill have a stab at it!,
i imagine driving without insurance, Old bill have the right to seize your car and fine you.
Drink driving can either lead to a ban or some massive fine.
Aggrevated TWOC, if i knew what this was it would help lol
Criminal damage, maybe a fine and cost of repairs?
^^ I heard of a bloke round my area who smashed into a fence, drove off only to find old bill at his door demanding he pay for the fence. He asked for proof. So they held his number plate up! Idddddioot! lol
about a year inside at a guess...
Aggrevated TWOC, if i knew what this was it would help lol
TWOC is an acronym standing for Taken Without Owner's Consent
Aggravated taking
This is committed if a person commits an offence under section 12(1) of the 1968 Act in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle and it is proved that at any time after the vehicle was unlawfully taken (whether by that person or another) and before it was recovered, the vehicle was driven, or death, injury or damage was caused, in one or more the circumstances listed in s12A(2):
(a) that the vehicle was driven dangerously on a road or other public place;
(b) that, owing to the driving of the vehicle, an accident occurred by which injury was caused to any person;
(c) that, owing to the driving of the vehicle, an accident occurred by which damage was caused to any property, other than the vehicle;
(d) that damage was caused to the vehicle.
There are two offences: under s12A(2)(b) where an accident results in the death of another (maximum 14 year sentence), and the less serious version under the other three headings (maximum two years sentence). In R v Marcus Leon Ashley Forbes (2005) EWCA Crim 2069, the defendant was seen to take a car and then engaged in a high-speed car chase with the police. The judge at first instance described the defendant as a menace, having driven in ways that could so easily have killed wholly innocent road users while disqualified, while released on licence having been convicted of other aggravated TWOC offences, and while "out of his head" on ecstasy. He had a long track record of convictions. The judge imposed the maximum consecutive sentences for aggravated taking and driving while disqualified. According to R v March (2002) 2 Cr. App. R. (S) 448, credit should be given for a guilty plea and Forbes felt a keen sense of injustice that he had been given the maximum sentence. The Court of Appeal confirmed the consecutive element of the sentence but felt that there was no overwhelming public policy justification for awarding the maximum sentence. Accordingly, a reduction was made to 22 months' detention in a young offender institution.
depends if its a repeat offender, but if not,
driving without insurance - 18 month ban and fine
DUI - 2 year ban, plus fine, plus possible small jail term,
TWOC - again depends if its a repeat offender but ban and fine again??
criminal damage - community service, if that...
rdznova16v
13-02-08, 02:20 PM
first time offence
well if its all together and first offence, then id say long ban full 280 hours cs and a big fine
JSeymour
13-02-08, 02:29 PM
driving without insurance...6 pionts ?200 fine
drink driving...5 or 6 pionts ?200 maybe more
aggrevated twoc...more pionts, first timer will get some sort of court punishment
criminal damage...to the car? a slap on the rist and a small fine for damages
criminal damage...to the car? a slap on the rist and a small fine for damageswrote off the van and two parked cars
Jim Mcrae
13-02-08, 02:54 PM
Looking at doing time i would think
I would have though for all of that combined it'd be a lost liscense and a big fine or some form of court punishment. :(
smcgsi16v
13-02-08, 04:22 PM
Bearing in mind its a frst time offence, (altho quite a few in one hit:tard:),
18 month ban and a hefty fine and in theory the car involved should be crushed and/or possibly a suspended sentence(probably a small sentance).
EDIT didn't see it was a first time offence
jail sentance is very unlikely but would probably depend on the aggrevated theft. i.e gbh etc
Points, ban (length depends whether said person has been caught DUI or even possibly been caught with out insurance before), plus a hefty fine (again depends on said persons status, if they are working etc) suspended sentance and/or community service.
Remember that they can take into account all previous convitions now
EDIT didn't see it was a first time offence
jail sentance is very unlikely but would probably depend on the aggrevated theft. i.e gbh etc
Points, ban (length depends whether said person has been caught DUI or even possibly been caught with out insurance before), plus a hefty fine (again depends on said persons status, if they are working etc) suspended sentance and/or community service.
Remember that they can take into account all previous convitions nowno previous. never been caught dui or without insurance before. i was working but it was the work van i crashed so now im not. it was classed as aggrevated twoc as it was the work van and i caused damage to other vehicles. so not aggrevated theft at all
I haven't got a clue to be honest and it does sound like there are grey areas. Like were you actually employed by the company when the van was crashed. Or did they sack you and then you took it.
I would expect to lose your licence and have a hefty fine at the least.
no i was employed at the time
TBH Burgo, the countrys current state of affairs work in your favour at this point.
Just cry a bit and you'll probably get a slap on the wrist. Saying that though, it doesnt sound like you deserve most of those charges (ill reserve judgement on the DUI ;)) so youll probably get royally rodgered. Its only the proper crims who have human rights remember.
At the least, a big fine and loss of license.
Worst case scenario, jail....
A mate got 6weeks jail but DUI, but he was also banned at the time, so that wouldn't have helped his case.
Make sure you plead about how you need a license for work/future work, and that its a first time offence, you regret it etc etc
As above,
best advice is to go and speak to a solicitor now, before police questioning etc find out what he thinks. Be straight with him about what happened and he will tell you the worst case scenarios, and the likely punishment.
An educated guess from me is loss of license and ban(2 years?), very heft fine, and possibly CS?
driving without insurance
drink driving
aggrevated twoc
criminal damage
No insurance = IN10 code (expect your insurance to be extremely difficult/expensive in the future) which carries 6-8 points and max ?5000 fine
Drink driving = DR10/20 code, expect between 3 and 11 points, fine up to ?5000, max 12 month ban and possible 6 months inside.
TWOC = UT50 code, same penalties as drink driving (fine, ban, prison)
Unsure about criminal damage. Roll them all up into one and I'd say you'd be looking at a fine of around ?500-1500, plus a ban between 6-12 months. As a first time offence, I would have said you'd get away from the prison or community service thing unless they get really shirty about the drink driving.
Have you been charged with the above? :(
jkhilton
13-02-08, 06:01 PM
My brother did something very similar around 10 years ago, he got a ?200 fine and a 18 month ban. It was his friends car that he took and his mate said he took it without asking.
He crashed into 2 other cars soming the other way.
He held his hands up to it all and said sorry, didn't try to be cocky about it by making a deal or anything. Just be honest with them, it's your first offence and wont be all that bad.
no ive got to go back on the 25th to be charged. im just guessing that that is what they will do me for. does it make any difference if you were only just over the limit or is it a case of if your over your over?
jk that is one thing i made sure of. when the police came round i was complient and honest with everything. no point in lying as you'll get found out at the end of the day.
dave.gsi
13-02-08, 06:38 PM
i don't think it will matter you were only just over the limit. in their eyes you were unfit to be behind the wheel of a car.
as said before, the state of the legal system at the moment you'd be very unlucky to get sent down for it, when you go to court wear a suit, be polite and look the judge in the eye when giving a grovelling apology. he has seen that many people in his court i'm sure he will be a pretty good judge of character and recognise you're not a full time chav scumbag,...........however, his hands are tied by the law...........
expect a lengthy ban..... 12/18 months at a guess. and lots of points when you get your licence back.
fine........depends how much you earn. the more you earn the bigger your fine, i'd expect somewhere around the ?1000 mark, plus costs.
and some community work, the norm is between 100/200
djshaggeh
13-02-08, 06:39 PM
If you can - say someone spiked your drink and get a mate to say he added some vodka to your pint whilst you werent looking.
Sounds like BS I know, but my friend came up with the same excuse and it worked for him. I wanted to punch him when I found out he got off, as I had my licence taken off of me for gaining 6 points in 2 years and it was pretty much bang on two years.
Anyways, I dunno what you been up to but it sounds like fun! Good luck with the charges.
And I very very very much doubt you'll end up in prison, this is england not the US
I dunno, the courts do like to go above and beyond their duties to make an example of people who've done wrong where motoring offences are concerned.
Unless you're a copper that is lol
djshaggeh
13-02-08, 06:46 PM
I dunno, the courts do like to go above and beyond their duties to make an example of people who've done wrong where motoring offences are concerned.
Granted - However Im sure he isnt the first person to drive pissed, no insurence, twoc and hit someone.
Take slough for instance - that **** happens everyday
Although i have no sympathy for you whatsoever luke
hard lines mate
and i can only agree with whats already been said!
brace yourself
nov4801
13-02-08, 06:53 PM
surely if you was employed by the company and was in there work van you are insured?
if it was out of business hours, and the van was being used for non-business purposes, and the van is not supposed to be used like such
then id say insurance was invalid, and is classed as being stolen
dave.gsi
13-02-08, 07:01 PM
if it was out of business hours, and the van was being used for non-business purposes, and the van is not supposed to be used like such
then id say insurance was invalid, and is classed as being stolen
-------> goes off to check my insurance for my work van!
well if your insurance is business use, NOT Social, domestic and pleasure, and you are using it for SDP then its invalid
however
you can have SDP with business added and its fine
likewise if your using a car with a SDP policy, for business purposes, your invalid too!
So what have you done exactly ??
Used the works van out of hours then crashed it while over the limit ?? so because you weren't supposed to be using it its being classed as theft and the insurance is in-valid as it was out of work hours ... then the damage to the cars you crashed into.
Even the drink driving on its own your gonna be sitting a ban, 12 month minimum, then everything else on top !! I'd be expecting a lengthy ban and a pretty big fine.
I'd be waving good-bye to being able to insure anything 1/2 decent for a long long time, time to get the push bike out.
My mates jsut done a smilar thing, btu it wasnt a works van, it was a mates car, he was pissed up(i wa sin the night club with him most the nite and saw him with at least 10diferent pint) then he lied and got the keys of a mate who sat in the passenger set and he run a red light, hit a taxi, drove of and was caught 3hours later and was stil over the limit.
he was charged with,
DUI,Driving without due care, leaving the scene of an accident, No insurance, Twoc(mate said he just drove it and wouldnt stop).
he got 18months and ?800 fine.
another mate got banned for speeding, and just got his car back after a new engine conversion and has been drivin it roudn while still banned, was drivin thru town on a satday nite on his fone got pulled
he already had a 18mnt ban, hes lookign at another 18mths and 6weeks inside and a a big fine..
if your just over the limit expect a years ban, reduced on completion of an alcohol awareness course and youl be fined
the no insurance on its own is normally about 6points and a fine
as for TWOCing and criminal damage it depends on the circumstances
they also tend to only go after you for the most serious offences when there are several so you might not get much for the criminal damage - just make sure you lawyer up
without knowing the full situation its difficult to guess as each case before a magistrate is udged on its own merits, just be very sorry when your in court
steviegsi
25-02-08, 03:29 AM
Surely DUI = automatic ban?
find out today dont you bud??
good luck
Matt2107
25-02-08, 01:14 PM
Hope they're not too hard on you chap.
no i think today they are just telling me what charges they are gonna do me with and set the court day. find out at 5 today. cheers lads
hope for the best eh mate? whats the news?
aye hope its not too bad burg
nice little list of charges put to me today
1. aggravated twoc - basically they pinned this on me by saying if i had asked work to use the van whilst over the limit they would have said no
2. use of a motor vehicle without third part insurance - didnt know i wasnt insured
3. failure to stop - i didnt walk/run away as such, some bloke told me to say it was knicked and took me home in his car
4. failure to report - i did report it and have the call on my fone history still
5. drive motor vehicle when above alcohol limit - yes i was
loggyboy
26-02-08, 12:01 AM
I assume you pleaded not guilty to the TWOC and 2 failures and guilty to the insurance and alcohol?
ive not been charged yet, my court date is the 12th march
loggyboy
26-02-08, 12:14 AM
Theyl probly drop the less serious, harder to prove ones and just go for the drunk and insurance.
Why exactly were you so stupid and inconsiderate to even drive the van in the first place?
I know its all "ifs and buts" but what if you killed someone? :tard:
Why exactly were you so stupid and inconsiderate to even drive the van in the first place?
I know its all "ifs and buts" but what if you killed someone? :tard:
shut up!! and read my first post
shut up!! and read my first post
Nice attitude :roll:
You cant expect 100% sugar coated comments on a public forum when talking about topics we all totally despise as legal road useres, with incresed insurance premiums all the damn time through stuff like youre guilty of
Now, try and get a little bit of respect back by answering my question :thumb:
Nice attitude :roll:
You cant expect 100% sugar coated comments on a public forum when talking about topics we all totally despise as legal road useres, with incresed insurance premiums all the damn time through stuff like youre guilty of
Now, try and get a little bit of respect back by answering my question :thumb:go fcuk yourself. i dont have to answer any of your questions and i specifically asked for no comments like yours and im sure i can survive without your respect
go fcuk yourself. i dont have to answer any of your questions and i specifically asked for no comments like yours and im sure i can survive without your respect
:cry:
steviegsi
26-02-08, 02:06 AM
Ahhh........Burying your head in the sand.
Ahhh........Burying your head in the sand.not at all.
i dont want to have to get this locked just cos some retards cant read
There are two people in this thread who appear not too a) have read it properly and b) not know the full circumstances as to why Burgo has started this thread.
Now, those two, you know who you are, STFU and stop chatting fart.
steviegsi
26-02-08, 02:22 AM
There are two people in this thread who appear not too a) have read it properly and b) not know the full circumstances as to why Burgo has started this thread.
Now, those two, you know who you are, STFU and stop chatting fart.
:(
P.S- Only 1 ''o'' in that context Batman :thumb:
:(
P.S- Only 1 ''o'' in that context Batman :thumb:
Re: post #53, last line :thumb: re-read it being as your so smart with your context.
steviegsi
26-02-08, 02:33 AM
:)
Why exactly were you so stupid and inconsiderate to even drive the van in the first place?
I know its all "ifs and buts" but what if you killed someone? :tard:can i just say what a stupid comment that is aswell. anyone could kill someone as soon as they get behind the wheel, even you!!
could admin please lock this now as we appear to have to many retards who cant read
Yes, yes IM the retard :wtf: :tard:
Mike, if you would kindly practice what you preach, and "a) read it properly" you will see that my first post in this thread was trying to find out "b) the full circumstances as to why Burgo has started this thread" :roll:
can i just say what a stupid comment that is aswell. anyone could kill someone as soon as they get behind the wheel, even you!!
Hence "ifs and buts" :tard:
But the chances are greatly increased when youre driving over the limit
steviegsi
26-02-08, 02:48 AM
What was the solicitors guess as to what is likely to be the outcome?
I know a guy that got pulled over the morning after a night out and was over the limit. He lost his licence for 6 months iirc. Aswel as a load of points i believe
walsh the reason i started the thread was as stated. i wanted to know what people thought i was likely to receive for the offences.
and i havnt contacted a solicitor yet
Mike, if you would kindly practice what you preach
I dont exacerbate situations :thumb:
And i was going to give you a very descriptive answer bassed on your reasons, having a couple of family members who are law profesionals, and a friend in her second year at leeds studying law i could of asked their opinion
If say you`d recently lost a close reletive, your crimes could be looked upon less harshly due to greivance/emotional stress/depresion etc etc
If you respond in the same mannor you did to me to the judge/barrister then youve had it
I dont exacerbate situations :thumb:
Oooh! the irony lol
Walsh, I suggest you maybe ignore this thread from now on....
and i havnt contacted a solicitor yet
that is the stupidst thing - contact one ASAP, ideally you should of got the police to supply you one befor you were interviewed
loggyboy
26-02-08, 11:04 AM
Defo get sols involved now! You wont have to pay either, as there is a chance you could go to prison (no matter how slim) you are automatically entitiled to legal aid.
Matt2107
26-02-08, 01:00 PM
I'll be shocked if you get charged for all offences.
As previously mentioned hopefully it'll just come down to no insurance/intoxicated.
Burgo,
As mentioned earlier, I had something similar happen to me a few years back.
The scenario wasnt as bad, but I got was going to be charged with:
-Failing to stop @ the scene of an accident
-Failing to report and accident
-Dangerous Driving
Basically what happened is: I was in a carpark with a few mates (as you do when you're 17), and someone had been playing loud music + doing handbrake turns. Now apparantely this was quite common in this carpark and the neighbourhood that backed onto the carpark had been kept up/woken up by this sort of thing for the previosu few weeks. So me and my mates (we werent doing handbrakes or playing loud music (i didnt even have a set of 6x9's back then!) were sat there, and some crackhead/pisshead bloke came over to us. He was definitely either high on crack or pissed off his face (the fecking scummy little twunt) came over and started running his gob (f*ing and blinding) @ us, and leaning all over our cars trying to box us in etc. So automatically, our instict was just to go. So my mates went, who were parked either side of my car, and this bloke started trying to punch my passenger through the open window, so I just drove off. Little did I know that this stupid scrote would then attempt to board my moving vehicle, by hanging onto the window, standing on the sideskirt, whilst still trying to punch my mate through the window. So I just kept driving, albeit 5-10mph because of speedbumps, he fell off and cracked his ribs/head on a kerb.
Now when I got in, about 2am ish, I woke my dad up (ex police officer of 30yrs) and told him about, and he said to me, probably a pisshead dont worry about it. So I didnt stop because a) I was scared (sound like a pansy but I used to be only little when I was 17) b)It was his own fault, didnt report it either.
When I got the letter of intended prosecution through the door detailing the offences I couldnt beleive it. I went straigh to a local solicitors, who specilaise in Motor Convictions, and the bloke was unbeleivably helpful. He told me what to expect, what to say when I was ebing questioned, and generally helped my remember the incident bette than I already did.
Now bit of a long winded story I know, but at the end of the day, it WAS an accident i didnt stop/report, and the bloke injured himself, be it by his own stupid fault, through my driving, so theoretically it was dangerous driving. So I could well have been charged + prosecuted for them offences. But just having a good solicitor with me, and helping me through it soon saw the case closed.
Now Im not saying a solicitor will be able to do that for you, because your circumstances are a bit more serious, but they should be able to get you off the smaller/lesser charges and just be prosecuted for the DUI+No Ins, which I think would be a very good result forr yourself given the circumstances.
As I say the day the letter came through my door, I was arranging a solicitor (on my dads advice), and it really did benefit me, Im sure it would greatly benfit you too.
Paul
well as ive never been in any trouble before i didnt know what i should do and when they first arrested me i just wanted it to be over asap so didnt request a solicitor. i know that i should have done now but my head wasnt all there at the time. i hadnt contacted a solicitor until now because i knew nothing of legal aid. im still abit sceptical as to whether ill receive legal aid being as im white and british and with the state of this country. the police gave me a list of solicitors though and i have contacted one to arrange a consultation so ill wait and see what they say.
p.s. sorry to admin for my reaction to various peoples posts but i didnt like the tone of there posts and i specifically asked for no comments like theres
i know what you mean about wanting it over asap, you will get legal aid
i wouldnt worry about your reactions to people as im sure you realise youve ben a fcuking idiot and you dont need pople telling you ;)
You will feel much better after speaking to your solicitor, then you have a good idea what to expect if you see what Im saying. :)
Don't you have to un-employed, on a sh*t wage ect .... to get legal aid ??
How old are you / how long you been driving ??
No insurance is 6 points on its own, i can honestly see you getting a ban wether its from totting up on points or just a straight ban. Fine ?? depends wether the judge is in a good mood or not !!
If you don't get legal aid and are having to pay the solicitor and you get found guilty then your gonna have a fair old bill from the them as well.
Get yourself a suit and be polite in court ... every little helps !!
loggyboy
26-02-08, 09:36 PM
Wont be a judge, will be 3 Magistrates. Which means they will be old, and female an instantly hate all young people, especailly men with car based crimes.
Legal aid will almost always be granted where there is a chance (not matter how small) of a custodial sentence (ie prison). I got done for dangerous a few years back and as such was granted it. (got found not guilty too :) )
When it comes to your defence pray on anything and everything that may have led you to do the stupid thing that was out of your control (ie work pressure, personal or financial issues, being molested as a child, what ever you can prove really!) If you have a gf get her pregnant now as if you can prove you will loose your job AND you have dependants they may give a more leaneant length ban. Even if you dont have kids then you can play the 'loose my job' card but this wont hold much weight on a drink based charge, can only be really used on speeding.
What other drving based convictions have you had? no matter how small.
well i am un-employed as a result of this anyway so cant use the loose my job card. and the only other thing ive got is an sp30 from two and half years ago .
and rich im 22 and bin driving two and half years
novawez
26-02-08, 10:05 PM
you might just get a fine my sis in law got 6 months conditional discharge for death by dangerous driving it was in the paper 7 months ago she was in a evo over coalville leicester unlucky git hit a off duty copper
steviegsi
27-02-08, 01:45 AM
Well i got caught speeding (90 in a 60) and already had 3 points. ( 6 points and your banned automatically in first 2 years of driving)
Ended up with 8 weeks without my licence (get it back on the 20th of march)
and a ?75 fine and no new points etc. But i got a good solicitor which helped me alot by explaining what would likely happen. Now for the initial ''chat'' with the solicitor, then his travel expences to court, and the actual court hearing, i was charged ?140. And i didnt have to stand up and speak to the magistrate. Don't think i would have got off so light by doing 'the talking' myself!
Walsh, I suggest you maybe ignore this thread from now on....
Why? :confused:
Ive been left perminantly (sp?) dissabled because of someone breaking the law on the roads, and if i want to share my views of a similar criminal on a public forum (especially one where i pay for the privalege (sp?)) i dont see why i shouldnt :mad:
Burgo, i didnt see you throwing your dummy out when the possitive (non answers) comments were posted ;)
Burgo's asking for advice on what to do in this situation. He's well aware he's been a complete tool, so telling him that isn't going to make any difference to whats happened and isn't exactly constructive. As said, he doesn't want people to get fired up and start having a go at him because that will inevitably result in the thread being locked.
Anyway, you've made your point and given reason, so lets leave it at that and move on :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.