View Full Version : CP's Trackday 1.6 on TB's re-build
Well this fooking dowell thing has led me on a right old goose chase this evening:mad:
I decided reluctantly, even though my instincts told me it wasn't necessary, to split the cluster back down and try and find a home for it. The upshot of the entire evening wasted was that, short of drilling my own hole for it somewhere randomly, there is no place for it to go, no reason for the cluster to need one and SO NO FOOKIN NEED FOR IT BE IN THE BASTID KIT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!:mad:
Anyway I feel better now thats off my chest. I think I might superglue it to the dash so that when the gearbox mashes its internals up cos a special dowell wasn't in place I can think to myself yep I was wrong I did need it after all -shortly before I shoot myselflol
To finish off the evening I've also discovered that I need to grind some of the diff housing away to get the new crown wheel in. Its very tight:eek:
broster
24-06-08, 10:15 AM
the joys of motorsport parts!
it'll all be worth it in the end.
p.s. bagsy a ride :)
Might have to cling to the roll cage, no poofy passenger seat in this car!
Might have to cling to the roll cage, no poofy passenger seat in this car!suits me fine lol
Got round the crown wheel not fitting in issue. Its bigger and wider than std so it has to go in first before the cluster is installed;)
Next issue we've been pondering is front wheel bearings. I dont really want to change drive shafts cos I'm not thrashing it all with any heavy torque driveshaft snapping standing starts but I would like to fit larger hub bearings to resist the lateral cornering loads which have increased greatly now we have decent brakes. I called my bearing supplier who looked up the std bearing size (33.9mm ID and 68 OD IIRC) to see if there is an over size bearing made. Nup basically.
So at the mo. I'm considering buying 2.0l bearings and sleeving the hubs to fit. Anyone got any gen?
The problem rears its ugly head when braking on a straight following a high G corner. It appears that the slicks are generating enough G to cause some movement in the standard bearings. This coupled with the extra diameter of the discs is enough to push the pads back. First time the pedal is pressed and it goes to the floor. Second time its back. We developed a teqnique of a quick pump before applying the brakes which works, but it would be nice to know they are always there.
MC
you could use some residual pressure valves in the front brake lines if thats the only issue it causes
Rick Draper
02-07-08, 08:37 PM
AP racing have there rotors mounted on bobbins to prevent pad knock like you are experiencing.
dhdev (Oli)
03-07-08, 08:18 AM
Or fit knockback springs. These fit inside the caliper behind the piston. TBH though you are better off preventing the movement of the rotor, better to find a cure than a quick fix :thumb:
Cheers those comments - good thinking.
One of the other serious issues that has emerged from the brake change has been the heat generation. We've measured the temperature of the brake and general hub area as being well into the mid 600 degrees C :eek: . The readings may not be that accurate (although we have tested on other things and it seems ball park)but nevertheless whatever, it's still hot enough to allow the wheel bolts to stretch loose. After 2 or 3 fast laps we need to get in to tighten them and then if you dont loosen them before they get cold they wont come undone again.
I should imagine that these temperatures are having fairly significant effects on the bearings etc etc seeing as its all std stuff and not designed to be cooked up at this heat.
Looking through brake fluid specs there is only one fluid that seems like it can live with this temperature - the DOT 5.1 Castrol DTF (? IIRC) so we will have to change to that which could well help cut brake fluid boiling and thus overall brake feel.
The big change that I need to make on this whole subject is to sort out some kind of forced ventilation to the brakes but it wont be easy - there's not much room around front wheel drive hub assembilies:confused:
Progress has slowed a bit whilst trying to sort what I want to do and also waiting for parts.
However I have now got the gearbox selector turret
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/novaalmostdone024.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/novaalmostdone025.jpg
God knows how much horspower the dog box is going to soak up. The drag on it is massive:( I guess it the price you have to pay to not have a box that breaks in exteme conditions
dhdev (Oli)
05-07-08, 12:41 PM
Your fluid temps should be nowhere near the 600deg C you're measuring (I'm assuming with a laser pyrometer) I'd be concerned if the fluid temps were much over 200 tbh. Heat transfer to the fluid can be reduced by using inserts between pad and piston, but again you shouldn't be running those temps to begin with IMHO, and ventilation is definately the way to go! You could try some ram pipes from the front bumper with ducting secured along the tie-bars and under the TCA's to point at the inner face of the disc.
i thought dog boxes sapped less power than normal boxes due to the more direct meshing of the gears??
is that the correct term?
Your fluid temps should be nowhere near the 600deg C you're measuring (I'm assuming with a laser pyrometer) I'd be concerned if the fluid temps were much over 200 tbh.
Yeh you're right - looking at the fluid performance specs for the various fluids that you can buy the temperatures are less than half the figures we are getting off the pyrometer ( as you say). We guessed from this info that the fluid temps are a lot lower than the actual hub and brake temps.
i thought dog boxes sapped less power than normal boxes due to the more direct meshing of the gears??
is that the correct term?
Umm I don't really know. Obv at the mo its not properly lube'd up but I would imagine that the larger mass of the gears and the increased surface area of the meshing parts(they are wider and heavier duty) would absorb more power, and maybe more so than the advantage of straight cut over helical:confused:
the main advantage of straight cut is the reduced side loading on the box main shafts, i would imagine when the gears have run for a bit they will loosen up somewhat, the rolling losses on mine are tiny, it takes ages to run down on the dyno!
loving th turret cp, think i may have to go for a dog box after my german escapades, the synchro sccr is looking decidedly worse for wear!
I promise I'll shut up on about my gearbox after this postlol
I went to fit the selector turret assembly tonight and found it wouldn't fit unless I ground away some of the casing like so
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/novaalmostdone027.jpg
Next job is to get it all back into the car
BRoadGhost
20-09-08, 12:23 AM
Talk to me about the tie bar solution you've made please CP.
I cannot understand how this is not wearing metal on metal and could only serve a hand full of hard miles before dangerous play results. Surely it's a heavier design compared with Lee303's elegant solution?
The loading on a rose joint is acceptable front on as much as side on due to the bearing being perfectly round; makes no odds. What does matter is how the bearing itself is held into the bracket that's mounted solidly to the chassis.
Does the front not skip about with your arrangement?
I like the theory; the way you've identified the need to perfect the lower arm / tie bar situation, but find the execution alarming.
Using a socket set UJ for the gear linkage will grant you deflection just where you don't want it. the reason proper UJ's cost what they do is because they will eliminate that slop and last. Can you get all 5 forward gears and reverse with setup you made?
I was a little surprised to see a built up engine sitting on it's exhaust manifold too.
Sorry for all the challenging comments
I'll speak on CP's behalf as you'll get no joy for the next month. I drive the car also and have had some input in the build.
I too had/have reservations on the wishbone arrangement but I do respect CP's years of experience in the field of wear on metal components. The first point in making a proper wishbone was to get a true arc with both front and rear mounting points in perfect alignment. The standard mounting points and any solution based on them will not give this. The wishbone is fairly heavy, but is also very strong and we both accept that there will be some wear on the bolt and hole that it passes through, but you must take into account three things. Firstly and most importantly, this car does a maximum of two or three track days a year with NO road use. (limited miles on a smooth surface). Secondly they are Catapillar bolts wich are something special in the bolt world and thirdly the wearing surface are large due to the thickness of steel and the diameter of the bolt. It will wear, but not at a rate that will go unnoticed and not be repaired. CP's concern with using a rosejoint at the front was having two of them hold the wishbone perpendicular to the direction of travel. It may work, but is does run a risk of being damaged.
The gear linkage was a personal challenge for CP. This isn't born out of a desire to save money, more to see if he can improve the design of the quaife item. He had seen people using the quaife selector that could get all five gear whilst parked, but struggled and missed gear when driving in anger. I have used the linkage and it works. It is very tight and precise and yes all gears are obtained easily. The Socket set UJ works very well, the main benefit being that it is not at such an accute angle as the quaife design. The only negative point is that the throw is greater than it should be.
Yes the engine sat on the manifold wasn't ideal, was bought standing like that and sat like that till it went in with no apparent ill effects luckily.
The good thing about our fabricating abilities and the facilities we have is that its easy to try something and change it if it doesn't work. It's all fun!
MC
BRoadGhost
20-09-08, 01:12 PM
Fair enough :)
The other thing I wanted to mention would be when I saw the images of the front strut tops chopped I thought great someone's gonna raise the mounting points on the front to allow lower stance with more travel…
Only to find it was to have the reverse effect; making them lower! WHY you would ever want to do this puzzles me.
They weren't lowered, just moved in and back to give more castor and neg camber.
All fair points I feel - I'm the first to accept that what I've done might not work out too well but it doesn't cost a lot to try and being as its on track it wont matter too much and everyone else will enjoy watching one of those ****ty novas falling apart as they burn past in their caterfieldslol
In my defence I would say that what I have done is many times stronger than fairly std suspension set-ups that i've witnessed with high hp XE's and LET's in them. I've still not got anything with much torque engine wise and neither is it heavy
The trouble with making my nova run too low is that with the slicks on they rub worse cos they dont have a rounded profile at the edges like most road tyres.
The engine isn't all that heavy - ie 1 person can pick it up so no worries resting on that exhaust - its not a big block you know :p lol
The engine isn't all that heavy - ie 1 person can pick it up so no worries resting on that exhaust - its not a big block you know :p lol
Big Blocks are for poofs! :D
BRoadGhost
30-09-08, 10:06 PM
Mmm you'd be amazed at what some people run on big blocks like turned down flanges for standard bearings…
A handful of XE's can be lifted like a lighter small block even so I'ud never rest the full weight through the manifold given the choice.
You could have gone eccentric nuts on the strut bottoms for more neg than you'd ever want ~ to the point where take the rest far enough and you wouldn't want so much, on balance…
Is a shame they can't made slicks just the same as road tyres dimensionally; don't they understand what nova racers need!
You could have gone eccentric nuts on the strut bottoms for more neg than you'd ever want ~ to the point where take the rest far enough and you wouldn't want so much, on balance…
In theory, but once again thwarted. The tyres rub on the coilovers as it is, so we have to use spacers. We have exhausted the camber options, tried them all hence the drastic mods.
I'm gonna be getting back onto trying to finish this over christmas.
There are number of key things that I need to sort:
1. Try to get the engine started and checked over. Now that I have sorted out the gearbox there is no reason why I cant try and start it (err I think:confused: lol )
2. Front wheel hubs/bearings. These have started wearing & causing problems with pad knock back . Not sure quite what to do - it would be nice to fit larger bearings but since the transmission is F13 throughout I dont really want to start changing the shafts unless I have to, which means sticking to the std hubs so I'm a bit stuck.:confused:
3. Sort out some cooling for the front brakes. The whole lot gets so hot that the wheel bolts stretch:eek: - I know I'm riding for a fall if I don't try and sort this
4. Fit the new heated windscreen.
5. Modify the gear linkage to fit the new dog box gear selector shaft
6. Get it corner weighed and try and get some meaningful measurements of the various settings.
7. Check the dB output from a driveby test
3. Sort out some cooling for the front brakes. The whole lot gets so hot that the wheel bolts stretch:eek: - I know I'm riding for a fall if I don't try and sort this
May I suggest some holes in the bumper (I take it you're not running a bumper iron) and some ducting fed around to the inside of the wheel?
My mate has an M3 (E36 M3's have brake cooling ducts as standard)and he dislodged one at a trackday, and then completely cooked the brakes on that side. I'd never thought ducting would be that effective until that happened!
Another idea is to try running slabs as an experiment. Although they're heavy they will absorb a hell of a lot of heat compard to how quickly an MO would be able to get rid of it. Dans never cooked its brakes and I rekon the slabs were a big factor in that.
In all fairness Dan's wasn't running six pots that will allow you to do front flips! The brakes are awesome and allow you to stop like a Caterfield, but they do get bloody hot. We have one of them fangly IR temp sensor things and will actually write down the figures next time.
BRoadGhost
21-12-08, 11:26 PM
In theory, but once again thwarted. The tyres rub on the coilovers as it is, so we have to use spacers. We have exhausted the camber options, tried them all hence the drastic mods.
It's possible to run the front as low as you'ud ever want it on coilovers without the need for offset screwing spacers OR extensive work if you think about it.
[now's the time to insult rather than question btw]
It's possible to run the front as low as you'ud ever want it on coilovers without the need for offset screwing spacers OR extensive work if you think about it.
[now's the time to insult rather than question btw]
How?
Welsh Dan
21-12-08, 11:32 PM
Could you hook up water jets like the racing trucks use? You can see the steam coming off these:
http://www.truckracing.de/inhalt/saison2004/6/photos/rt/3/b9.jpg
Could you hook up water jets like the racing trucks use? You can see the steam coming off these:
http://www.truckracing.de/inhalt/saison2004/6/photos/rt/3/b9.jpg
some rally boys do use them too,just wired in to the brake light wires or however.never really looked into it much.:tard:
Ducting would be far easier lol
He's not running a bumper iron. I suggested ducting too, but I think there is an issue with running it close to the brakes due to the new lower arm set up???
It's possible to run the front as low as you'ud ever want it on coilovers without the need for offset screwing spacers OR extensive work if you think about it.
[now's the time to insult rather than question btw]
The aim of the exercise is not to go lower, but to run much more negative camber. Winding the TCA out resulted in a degree of binding up (could possibly be solved by using a setup such as Jonlem's) but also caused the outside of the tyre to catch the arch (we do not want to run wide arches). Using camber bolts on the strut forces the tyre to rub on the coilover at the top and the wheel is already spaced away. The only way to get much more negative camber as far as we could see was to move the strut tops in and the eccentric top mounts do not give enough. Moving the turrets in was a fairly quick and simple job and the problem is solved.
I would however be keen to hear your suggestion.
And I will not throw insults, but would just like to highlight that I am frustrated by the fact that you cannot seem to post without:
a) believing you are superior to everyone
b) sounding condescending
c) keeping your cards close to your chest
THIS ISN'T A COMPETITION!
I dare say you are very knowledgeable, but you lack a little in social skills. In the ten or so years I have been using this and other forums, it is the first time I have personally insulted anyone. Feel privileged! :D
P.S. The "S**t eating C**k Muncher" comment did give us all a few laughs!
He's not running a bumper iron. I suggested ducting too, but I think there is an issue with running it close to the brakes due to the new lower arm set up???
I suspect it can be done, the real issue is drilling through a snowplough!!!!:eek:
I suspect it can be done, the real issue is drilling through a snowplough!!!!:eek:
It's just a bit of plastic, a holesaw should go through it no worries ;)
Could you hook up water jets like the racing trucks use? You can see the steam coming off these:
Bingo :D
He's not running a bumper iron. I suggested ducting too, but I think there is an issue with running it close to the brakes due to the new lower arm set up???
Go in from the front of the engine bay(lower front pannel), above the tie bars under the chassis leg pointing stright to the rear of the disc/calipar. Seen it on race cars and bmw have a set up abit like that bar it comes from the bumper.
It's possible to run the front as low as you'ud ever want it on coilovers without the need for offset screwing spacers OR extensive work if you think about it.
[now's the time to insult rather than question btw]
:wtf: Sorry I really don't follow a lot of what you say mate? Some parts of your sentences start to make sense and then it all gets a bit garbled. WTF is an offset screwing spacer and where did you get the idea that I'm just trying to get the car as low as possible? :confused:
Anyway you seen my car and for what ist worth I've shared my ideas for better or worse with you.
Its time you posted up your car and whatever it is that you are doing to it:thumb:
Any progress on this yet ,cant wait to hear those tb,s
wiseboy
07-02-09, 09:45 PM
awsome work so far mate
Bit of an update. I managed to drop a large piece of steel box on the front wing sometime ago which was a bit dispiriting but a mate stepped into the breach and swapped a new wing on and re-painted it for me so all is good. I'll get some pics of it and post them up. Its getting warm enough in the workshop for us to start back on with a bit of tinkering in the evenings so more posts on the way;)
peester
09-04-09, 09:41 PM
yaay the doctor is back
Bit of an update. I managed to drop a large piece of steel box on the front wing sometime ago which was a bit dispiriting but a mate stepped into the breach and swapped a new wing on and re-painted it for me so all is good. I'll get some pics of it and post them up. Its getting warm enough in the workshop for us to start back on with a bit of tinkering in the evenings so more posts on the way;)
And when are you proposing to start this tinkering...when we have a quiet period? lol
Count Vaux Alot
09-04-09, 10:50 PM
It will be good to see some more of your progress!
Bookmarked this thread and going to read it all tomorrow morning. I also hope to see some kind of update soon :)
boffer8
07-03-11, 09:00 AM
You dont have the clutch plate that didnt fit do you? Could have a use for that, or can you measure it for me?
Thought I'd post some proof that CP has actually been working on the car...
As some of you may have guessed, he's been having clearance issues now that he's running silly geometry ;) So unable to find a pair of 5 door front arches (still looking if anyone has any) he decided to tackle the current wings himself...
Before the massacre:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/5639691751_2c85165852_z.jpg
Lubing up:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5640265986_7ea72deeb2_z.jpg
And away he goes:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5640266944_aeaaf49a4a_z.jpg
Unfortunately the vibrations caused by the saw made things difficult, so CP decided to try an alternative method:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5640266480_40a0b51d4f_z.jpg
And after:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5107/5640329466_19c18989a0_z.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5640329918_0d8c1704eb_z.jpg
Some minor touching up to do, but it should allow him to get the car outside and on a track in the near future (providing MC and I keep nagging him ;)
Jim.
Nice, but snowplough & mk2 lights :tard:
cracking car mate,missed this thread,just a quick one,ive got that dd2 digi dash,are you runing the original tank,as i cant get my fuel level to work just keeps saying 0% all the time
He is using an original tank, but it's been cut to half the size. Will ask CP to post with details.
Mazz, the snowplough is more function over form.
cracking car mate,missed this thread,just a quick one,ive got that dd2 digi dash,are you runing the original tank,as i cant get my fuel level to work just keeps saying 0% all the time
I think its more to do with how its wired up. I cant remember now but i recall we had similar issues. I'll check with someone whose got a better memory than melol
My old plough! I had it for sales for ages for £80, no-one wanted it so here it is on cps car :)
Looks well weaponised :cool:
when was the last time this thing actually moved under its own steam?
M Sutton
21-04-11, 06:52 PM
Looks awesome!! Be good to see it finally move and get out on track lol!
I think its more to do with how its wired up. I cant remember now but i recall we had similar issues. I'll check with someone whose got a better memory than melol
I've wired it up to the original loom,there is a pink wire on the dd2 dash,don't know if it needs a earth aswell tho,as thought it would earth it's self,off the car loom,might be wrong there tho,driving me crazy lol
Update coming soon people!
After a lengthy lay off due to lack of time and finances (had pay for 2 weddings in 2 years!) I, with the help of Jim and Mark, have finally got the car to a state where I felt confident enough to book into a trackday at Rockingham tomorrow.
One of the main issues was a massive problem with the front brakes heating up so much that the brake pads enlarged to the point where they were rubbing on the hub and the wheel bolts kept coming loose as they got so hot. The problem also cooked the hub bearings and foobarred them so it was time for a re-think. After a lot of headscratching and general indecision we finally came up with this:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/149.jpg
First I stripped the brakes out and cut off the tab that you can screw the stad protective tine brake guard on to.
Next i made up this weird looking contraption:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/150.jpg
Which was attached thus:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/152.jpg
I then bodged this arrangement using the old lights and airfeed funnels bought fromTweeks:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/172-1.jpg
Which ended up looking like this:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/175-1.jpg
And feeding cool air through the engine bay to the brakes thus:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/176-1.jpg
Awesome idea, executed brilliantly imo. Would love to see this weapon on a track one day ..
calibra-keith
23-06-11, 01:36 PM
loving the thread and some great work, i will be looking back over it a few times for some ideas im sure.
Ducting looks mega purposeful in the bay! lol Will the steering arms not catch the ducting going through there?
The arms will go up from that position presuming the springs do compress a bit, Would be fine unless you managed to get the hub to go lower than it does with no weight on it.
It does look awesome though, Just hope it works lol
Very very good way of going it. Can you run something from the front so it points at the back of the calipar as well? To help keep that cool?
Love the bumper on it, front end looks great.
Couple more pics of the car after a quick clean and polish:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/5864434904_1c2379ca7e_z.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/5864434554_ce12a8b6b1_z.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2693/5864434168_c7658a10a4_z.jpg
Another thing we did was reposition the standard spoiler. CP was looking at after market rear wings, but after much deliberation (nothing to do with the fact we were running out of time) we opted to use the GSi spoiler. The spoiler is almost a solid lump of foam rubber, so to help reduce weight we shaved as much excess weight from it as we dare without making it too flimsy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/5864433778_c447955b90_z.jpg
What about making one like lee303 did? Spoiler wise.
that front end looks mint
at rockingham tomorrow!!! i'll be able to hear you whilst im at work :(. might have to pop in
Why not shave some of the backing plate off the pads on the inboard side to prevent the touching under expansion... or space the caliper out another few mm etc
Well an interesting day with mixed fortunes.
The brake cooling system worked really well
The suspension mods and new shockers set up was good with no nasty suprises
The engine is clearly much more powerful than the 1.4 and when it comes on cam really flies.
The dog box, gripper diff and gear change assembly which seems agricultural and very difficult to use in the paddock comes into it's own at full chat. Using the clutch is optional and no finesse is required lol.
The big disappointment and frustration was the fact after a couple of laps and things got properly warm the engine developed a major loss of power eventually leading to the engine refusing to go over 4000 rpm tho it would idle happily.
We suspect it is sensor problem - maybe the crank sensor but we couldn't locate a spare so we spent a frustrating afternoon going out for 2 laps and then having to come in and scratch our heads
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/014.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/015.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/025.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/024.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/024.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/020.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/019.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/th_012.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/?action=view¤t=012.mp4)
click the image for the video
This was about the first occasion I actually built it up to over 8000rpm for a sustained period - it does 9000 before the limiter soft cuts in
Sounds awesome :cool:
Shame about the problems, definently sounds crank sensor related.
Sounds awesome :cool:
Shame about the problems, definently sounds crank sensor related.
NOVA saloon
25-06-11, 05:35 PM
Sounts top
NOVA saloon
25-06-11, 05:36 PM
Sounts top
scott.parker
25-06-11, 07:03 PM
Wow, sounds ace, nice to see your still playing with it cp, and is that Jim sporting a grey haired praying position in the pit garage? lol
That cooling system looks a good idea, though I'm sure over time you will need to possibly replace the ducting, as i thing it might ware through from movement etc.
Ive seen car's where they duct from the front bumpers, like fog light openings etc.
How close are they tyres to the shock/springs? looks from them pics very very close, what tyres are they?
Suspension and exhaust setups look the real deal too, see you have been sourcing some nice stuff that Ive not either seen, or just cant remember as its been a while! lol
Hope you fix the issue you have and get it upto scratch how you want.
Scott
Charles - which coilpack are you using and where is it mounted?
The GM ones suffer terribly from heat soak and when they get hot - they run like the ignition is retarded...
The Ford ones also suffer apparently and a friend had to re-mount it on the inner wing as it used to even cut out when it was super-hot.
great to see you charles and of course jim and good to meet mark. proper shame about the problems but still an awesome car and im sure you'll get it sorted
Funky looking tie bars there.
Glad it was a good outing even if you did have probs.
Can't get to pages 34 & 35
Charles, the forum had a brain fart and lost its links to some posts/threads/pages.
Right dunno what's happening with the posting here but I've finally managed to open up the last page and actually get to read what's been posted.
Thanks Will for the advice about the dispak. It is on our list of suspects along with crank sensor, water temp sensor and spark plugs. The engine has been stood a long time and we already have had all the spark plugs fail even tho they've not run for any length of time which indicates that stuff deteriorates over time irrespective of whether it's been used or not.
The Tyres are Dunlop racing slicks which are difficult to get clearance for cos of the right angled profile they have where the side Walls meet the flat. That's what gives them their ability to retain full grip right up until they break away. There is no gradual progressive under or over steer with them. They either give full grip or none
have always loved this car and the originality of cp's thinking on resolving issue's.
one of my all time fav's
M Sutton
29-06-11, 11:44 AM
Looks and sounds awesome!
what plugs are you running CP? they shouldn’t degrade if they aren’t being run, what heat range etc?
They are NGK plugs. Don't know what heat range. We think the problem might be dispack related as Will F suggested. It's going on a rolling road soon so fingers crossed its sorted and ready for another track day soon.
They are NGK plugs. Don't know what heat range. We think the problem might be dispack related as Will F suggested. It's going on a rolling road soon so fingers crossed its sorted and ready for another track day soon.
be sure to post when and where
cool, if it was me i would run NGK BCR8ES gapped to about 37 thou:thumb:
Nipped into Jamsport first thing this morning who kindly took time out to put the car their rolling road to try and work out what the problem is.
Mixed fortunes as per normal :roll: Although it got run up, Jamie wasn't happy with the suspension settings which have not been properly set and are, to say the least extreme,lol which were creating issues with how it behaved on the rollers so the session was abandoned.
Otherwise, in Jamies opinion, the engine needs re-mapping because the air/fuel ratio readings were all over the place. Certainly it has a massive hole in its power delivery & is not pulling cleanly through the rev range in anyway shape or form as per an engine not properly mapped. However, I'm a bit suprised and had not previously thought it to be the problem because this engine is supposed to have been mapped by SBD on an engine dyno almost no miles ago. The main problem is that not having anything to do with the creation of this engine nor knowing who built it and whether it was mapped by SBD for sure we can only go on what we find. Hopefully all it requires is a proper map and nothing else is wrong.
Anyway next job is sort the suspension out so its better behaved on the roller so Jamie can do his stuff without fearing for his lifelol
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/th_011.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb125/cpnova/?action=view¤t=011.mp4)
good luck with the mapping matey, whats the full spec btw? sorry ive not seen it in previous posts:S
think i’d ring SBD and see if they can shed some light on it if i were you, if its only been dyno’d i would expect the map to need a tweak once its in a car with the full exhaust ectc, but the AFR shouldn’t be 'all over the place’ really, sounds more like its on a base map
Either on a base map or someone fishing for some business..... call me an old cynic lol
doesn’t sound too good in the vid, but you will get some strange AFR with a cammy engine such as this at certain points, but the main thing is it doesn’t drive right so does sound like it needs mapping tbh
someone fishing for some business..... call me an old cynic lol
Now now, you cant say that :p lol lol ;)
Jesus, that nearly escaped out the rollers,Lol. Does sound quite ill about half way through the rev range.
On my daily that developed a similar problem, like it had a rev limiter as soon as it was under load, but would then clear. That was down to a dodgy coilpack.
Ecotec btw, so uses the coilpack that most tb'd engines use.
Rick Draper
07-07-11, 12:22 AM
Hmm think i would be going to track and road for a remap Charles after some of the stories and abominations i have seen about the other company....
On my brief drive I experienced the following:
1st lap, appeared to be all ok, lots of power and relatively smooth torquey delivery, far better than the 1.4 ever was. After a lap on full power something changed and there wasn't just a loss of power, the engine was dead. Depressing the throttle pedal dropped the revs and ultimately lead it to conk on my way into the pits, only just made it! The car idled well and after 30 mins of cool down would go out and do another lap or so on full power. What gets me about the mapping suggestion is that the fault is/was so on and off. I'd also say that each time its been driven, the time of good running is reduced. Anyone want to look at the map and data log?
MC
So has the coilpack been swapped for a new one?
On my brief drive I experienced the following:
1st lap, appeared to be all ok, lots of power and relatively smooth torquey delivery, far better than the 1.4 ever was. After a lap on full power something changed and there wasn't just a loss of power, the engine was dead. Depressing the throttle pedal dropped the revs and ultimately lead it to conk on my way into the pits, only just made it! The car idled well and after 30 mins of cool down would go out and do another lap or so on full power. What gets me about the mapping suggestion is that the fault is/was so on and off. I'd also say that each time its been driven, the time of good running is reduced. Anyone want to look at the map and data log?
MC
chuck it this way :)
Very much a temperature sounding issue, so either there is something stupid in the calibration regarding what happens with engine temp, or the coilpack is on its last legs, or the bay is heating up and dragging in such hot air that you lose power.
Unlikely to be heat soak (into the inlet) - I ragged my 1600 for about 25 laps in the summer and all that got hot was me!
Coilpack getting hot and cutting out IMO
Hopefully not the ecu coilpack drivers/amps
does kinda seem like its a weak spark for whatever reason, would also explain the dead plugs, did you find out what grade they were? i suppose you could see how the spark looks when its hot and mis behaving and compare it to when it cools down, no crank trigger errors on the ECU log?
Unlikely to be heat soak (into the inlet) - I ragged my 1600 for about 25 laps in the summer and all that got hot was me!
Was only chucking in the unlikely possibilities :)
Thanks for all the input. I have to say that the fact that you can get full power ok whilst is reasonably cold suggest a fault like is suggested. Key thing was the car was allowed to get hot before the dyno run & we already know it plays up when hot so that could explain what Jamie found.
Think I'll hunt out a dispak from the breakers as the next least cost step to eliminate possible faults. I can let it get nice and hot and then rag it down the drive. I'll soon know
Incidently the dispak doesn't appear to get particularly hot. Where it is positioned it's well ventilated and on a thin steel mounting bracket and not directly touching the head or anything
Could be the HT leads dying too....
Indeed. I've thought that it would worth changing them as well. I still remember that when we first first tried to start the car all the plugs needed changing etc etc. For what it costs it would be silly not to
I'd love to see an update on this thread, hopefully the running issues will have been sorted out lol
M Sutton
12-04-12, 06:40 PM
I saw CP a few weeks ago and he has managed to get it running properly! A new coilpack sorted it I think :D
I know he doesnt get chance to go on here much now. Next time I see him il see if he can update this thread ;)
do you know the next planned outing?
OllieKing
13-04-12, 08:53 AM
This car is SWEET!
Hes mincing round oz at the moment, looking for sloth or something....
Hes mincing round oz at the moment, looking for sloth or something....
im afraid i have some bad news
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/559560_374485835928943_100001025886846_1198605_193 1037931_n.jpg
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