Valver conversion

[Matt Finary]

Alright people, I after doing so much work to my shell, i have decided to put in a 2litre 16valve in and not the 1.6litre 16valve. So what I want to know is-
I read that you can make the drive shafts by using mark 2 Astra 1600 big block inner CV joints and nova gte driveshafts and outer CV's. Is this true? if so do they just go together?
what do i do about the engine mounts? Can you make them or use the old ones?
I am seam welding the engine bay is there anything else i need to do?
My brother is stripping his Mark 2 Astra 1.6 SR, what parts can i use off it for the conversion and anything else?
I have got the Servo and master cylinder off it.
and what do you use to lower the anti-roll bar?

Many thanks

Matt
:wink:

[Matt Finary]

Help Me :|

[carltoncrazy]

is it really worth doing all this?

[Doddy]

i have been lead to believe that you can make the shafts up with gte shafts and 1600 astra inner cv joints, can`t remeber which member it was but he swears it works like a treat.

As for Engine mounts you can buy them but i have heared different storries abiut different ones.
Myself, i just used a standard nova front gearbox mount, spaced the back gearbox mount across my 10mm and for the front, used the alloy astra mount bolted to the nova rubber, but with novatech lowering bobbings, fitted on top. Now that last bit was not very clear, phone them up and as they where very helpful when i was doing mine..

I fitted a chassis strengthing kit to mine, if you are seem welding you may as well do this as well.
Some people on hear say that they don`t strength the right parts for 2L 16v conversions, that is sh*t, they stop flex and twist in the chassis, and that`s the main problem with big block conversions.

Since doing my car, i fitted a strengthing kit to a mates 14SR, i drove it before and then after and it has made a hellish improvement in the handling, it drives like a different car.

[Matt Finary]

Any other things I should know?

:|

[Dicko]

if you use nova gte outters u will also need gte hubs, as the splines on the driveshafts r different!!

[Ste_Nova]

nope the hubs are all the same.... 22 teeth

the std/gte cvs have a different number of inner teeth and 22 outer teeth

[Matt Finary]

Thanks ste, so i will just need to get the gte driveshaft and I use my sr outer cv, gte driveshaft and astra 1600 inner. Why don't other just make the driveshaft, then buying them?
Is there any other advise on the conversion?

p.s ste, nice to see you and novaload get shout in this months Revs!
:)

[Ste_Nova]

as stated above the sr/gte cvs have a different number of inner teeth

[Matt Finary]

I went and got a pair of GTE driveshafts and cv's from the scrapyard this afternoon and the bloke let me off a tenner because he was a nova drive too.
:lol:

[dan16v]

y dont you just buy the pvd kit the shafts are non tappered too! as for a stiffer chassis you dont need to fork out for a nova tec kit get a pic of their kit then go buy your self a sheet of steel and cut them your self way cheaper, all your trying to do is stiffen the 2 chassis legs so make up a triangular gusset peice it will illiminate left to right action that is caused when cornering mig it from the leg onto the bulk head

[barnes]

why dont you just buy ********????

questions like that are really silly, places like this are all about helping eachother out and trying to do things as cheaply and as good as possible without the need for 500 quid pvd kits.

the more info people can supply as individuals that have had certain problems helps others eliminate it from there own conversions etc. so, from people like me and ste saying ages ago about the 1600 inner cv's onto gte shafts, its saving people money etc, and thats why web communities like this grow, coz people can learn how to do things themselves without the need for spending wads of cash

[Matt Finary]

thanks ste and barnes
I have made the driveshafts up now(astra/nova). The bay is seam welded do i need the plate kit or will the welding do?
If i need the plate kit does any one have the designs for it to make my own up?
What about the engine mounts? can i make them up or buy them?
if buy where from?

thanks

[neiloakley]

Seam welding will stop it falling apart. Wouldn't bother with the kit cos they are designed for rallying. Just get yourself a decent strut brace (front and rear) and make sure you use both front and read anti-roll bars. If you want, get some powerflex bushes to stiffen it up even more.

As for driveshafts, you could use MK2 1.6 Cav inners cv joints, 1.3SR outer cv joint and normal SR driveshatfs. It works cos i'm doing it.

[barnes]

a strutt brace isnt really gonna stop the amount of flex and strain on the bulk head and the chasis legs now is it.

as for the rear????? a rear strut brace isnt going to beneft a valver sonversion

i never put the anti roll bar back on and mine handled fine and the chasis isnt twisted or bent and it got 192bhp through it with minimal seam welding

[Ste_Nova]

same here no arb's not needed when there is only 15mm between arch and wheel

[neiloakley]

it's all down to personnal preference. I didn't mean the strut braces will make the car stronger, but they will stop it flexin so much. And, after a period of time, too much flex WILL harden the metal to the point where it snaps. The more you do now, the longer the car will last.

I'm putting my 2.0 in tomorow and i aint seam welded or strengthened my engine bay. Cos i know after six months or so, i will get bored and start again. So for me it aint worth it. I am however using every type of brace i can to make the car f*&kin stiff.

Up to you!

[Matt Finary]

What about the engine mounts?

thanks

[neiloakley]

you can modify the exisitng mounts but they wont be as strong and the engine may not sit right. Get a set from Carquip
I just rang them up and they are ?95 plus delivery. gone up a bit since i bought them. If you wanna speak to them they will glady tell you everything you need to know. 01366 324318

[barnes]

i modified my own mate and my engine sat much better angle and in a better place than my mates did using the carquip mounts and mine lasted fibe and withstood 192bhp of constant 1/4 mile and country road abuse, so obviously they are not any good. spend money, go ahead

[Matt Finary]

What do i do to mod the engine and gearbox mounts?
Do i need to lower the anti roll bar?
What do i do about the airbox? mod it or knock the bulkhead(car is being resprayed)
What about the alternator hitting chassis leg? do i hit it back or cut it out?
Will the gear linkage from the F10 meet up with F16?

Thanks for all the help!

Matt

[neiloakley]

first off the drivers side (off-side) engine mount bracket needs to be lowered by 1.5 inches, then the rear mount need cutting in half and re-welding.

Using a hammer hit the chassis rail where the alternator will sit to clear it. As for the crank pulley you have a few options, remove the PAS pulley or cut and weld in a box hole so the wheel now clears the chassis rail

Early C20XE SFi boxes are small enough to fit without modification, later models had a different shape and need modifying to clear the bulkhead behind, to do this, cut the section out that is required and hot-glue gun a flat section of plastic and make sure its airtight (important). The Ecotec engines do not have a large box on the throttle body, hence no modification is required. C20LET Turbo engines have a different method, hence no modification is required (in fact this can be transferred over to the C20XE engines instead of modifying the SFi box). Also PVD sell a replacement part (?95) that fits (looks exactly like the C20LET part).

The anti roll bars are going to catch in two places when you fit the 2.0 engine, on a lug on the gearbox and the exhaust manifold. The lug on the gearbox can be ground off. Sometimes you get lucky and the exhaust manifold does not catch at all, but more often than not it is going to, you will need to get some Lowered Tie Bar brackets or at the least some Lowered Anti-roll bar mounts, these either lower the Tie bars and anti-roll bars or just lower the anti-roll bars. I recommend getting the Lowered Tie Bar mounts as not only do these give better clearance but they make you handling better.

[Matt Finary]

which is the better gearbox F20 or F16?
What else am I going to need? I have the drive shafts(gte/astra1.6), engine mounts (nova ones moved and changed), gearbox F16(free)
so far.
Do I only need the engine, loom and ecu?
what is the difference in BHP between the Astra GTE and the Ecotec?

Thanks

Matt.

[Ste_Nova]

then the rear mount need cutting in half and re-welding..

wtf are you on about... the rear mount needs spacers/washers not cutting

[neiloakley]

F16 is the best in my opion. it's C/R

[barnes]

the f16cr box from a gte has the exact same fuckin ratios as the f20 mate.

ecowank = 136bhp c20xe = 150bhp for models with cat and 156bhp for non cat models.

std nova rear gearbox mount needs a lip cut of it, ie a 3-4mm lip that can be ground off so it mates up to the f20 not cut in half. did coutenay tell you that?

sfi box, both need trimming, ive had and used and tried both. dont bash the bulk head in hats just stupid and also a structural part of the engine bay/chasis and a stingy mot inspector could fail it on it

[Ste_Nova]

i bent my bulkhead.... only needed a slight bend..... the mount doesn't need cutting if you use washers.... the carquip mount comes with instructions....

see pics of the carquip rear mount plates etc on my photos page

photos.yahoo.com/ste_sa

data sheets and tech info

[barnes]

well guess it dont if u use wahsers like. but hey, i used a grinder lol.

you could always cut it in half though ste couldnt you?????? lol

[brian]

i bent back the bulkhead a small bit and it clears. i put the rear mount on the box and bolted the front 2 mounts in place, then jacked up the engine till the rear mount was against the floor of the car. then marked the 2 holes where the mount needs to be bolted, droped down the engine, and bore 2 new holes in the floor. the back mount is now bolted up in a new spot(still within the re-inforced area) with no need for spacers. i dropped and re-welded the front mount too. they are all perfect still after constant abuse!!
If you can get a F16 from an astra GTE etc its a better job. i think better gearin and most importantly (as i found out recently after killin my F20) it bolts up to the original mounting holes with no spacer needed! :mrgreen:

[barnes]

f16 and f20 have same ratios

[spanishfly]

valver :)

[Matt Finary]

So the F16 will bolt straight up?

[barnes]

no you have to cut and weld the bell housing and use a starter motor from a 1700td cav an flywheel from 1300sr nova

[Matt Finary]

Didn't the F16 come on 2litre 8v? so it would go straight on to a 16v?
Isn't a older version of the F20.
When i said bolt up i meant to the gearbox mount without the mod to the mount?

Thanks

Matt
:D

[brian]

to say the F16 and F20 are same ratio is absolute B******T. there is a standard F16 on vectra 1600's etc, another model on Astra gte's and the one i have which is a F16C (has a limo) the F20 is completely different gearin. the F16 is quicker up through the range with longer 5th than f20. the f16 would even give a bit more top end speed if enough power was there to push it.
and i don't kno what you are on bout with fittin the F16 "cut and weld bell housin/ 1.7td starter motor/ 1300sr flywheel" ....... WHAT?
it bolts straight on. the rear mount needs a little taken off to make it fit flush to the box. :evil:

[dan16v]

u dont even run an anti roll bar? i ran with out one on my gte and it was shite! dug into to corners big time put it straight bak on!
the reason y i said bout the pvd kit is as if you dont have the time to naff about with dirty cv joints like me then id go and buy brand new, as i dont have time due to work etc but up to you! and this web site is also about other advice other than diy so i thought maybe it would be a healthy option whats the point in being single minded? :roll:

[neiloakley]

thank you brian. Why would vauxhall make a gear box, give it two different names AND fit it to the same engine? Obviously the F16 and F20 are different and there IS an F16C cos i have it. Big up to all the tossers out there!

[Matt Finary]

Alright this is the plan

Seam weld the engine bay once i have replaced the inner wing, upper and lower slam panel, cross member, rear quarters, new floor(custom exhaust), outer and inner sills and battery tray.
Mod chassis leg and bulkhead.
Make the 2litre driveshafts from nova gte cv and driveshaft(scrapyard) and astra 1600 big block inner cv(free)
Mod the engine and gearbox mounts
buy the 2litre 16v(with loom and ecu)
pick up gear box(F16 Free)
make lowered antiroll bar
fit new brakes
get strut braces front and rear.
fit everything!

what about the springs and dampers will they take the engine until i changed them in a couple of months for coilovers?
anything else?

thanks

Matt
:D

[Doddy]

i have a F16 box off a astra 1.8 SRI, on my valver and it is much better than the F20 box(which i had 2 of in about a month) as for it bolting strianght up with no modification to the back mount, that`s news to me had to space mine.

The outter casings are exactly the same size, it`s the internals that are different.

as for the SFI box, mind did fit with out modifing a single thing. strange!!

[Ste_Nova]

you have to space the rear mount away from the box

pics on

photos.yahoo.com/ste_sa

data sheets and tech info

[barnes]

jesus you muppets i was taking the piss coz the 2litre 8v and 16v have exactly the same bottom end so of course its gonna fit straight on.

the f16c???? you dreaming? you mean cr dont you????

the f16cr box has the same ratios as the f20, go look in yer haynes book before i knock you out with it cheeky ****.

the number after the "F" is the lb/ft rating of tourque that the gearbox can safely take, ie f20 takes 200lb/ft and f16 160lb/ft. the 2litre 8v doesnt produce anywhere near the same tourque as the 16v 2litre does, hence the 16v having a 200lb/ft rated gearbox

the f16 in my mates astra is flat out at 127mph, the f20 in my other mates astra is flat out at 137mph. so the f16, uless it was a wide ratio wont giva ny more top end at all. as for quicker to 60??????????? my ass prove it muppet

[Matt Finary]

I am using an F16 from a 1600 astra can i use the clutch and flywheel from the 1600 or the 2litre?

thanks
8)
Matt

[barnes]

if you are using it from a 1600 astra it will be a wide ratio box not the cr box that you want. it means that the gearing will be a lot shitter coz 5th is actually more of an overdrive gear than an actual gear so i would find an f20 instead

[dan16v]

yea i ran a turbo d box on my cammed 1600 and it was crap! gears held way to long sumfin like 70mph in 2nd and then its like 100 in 3rd its like when your in 2nd your in 3rd one gear ahead of your self flat out in 4th jam it in 5th and the car would slow down slightly!

[Rick Draper]

Matt Finary Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:46 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright this is the plan

Seam weld the engine bay once i have replaced the inner wing, upper and lower slam panel, cross member, rear quarters, new floor(custom exhaust), outer and inner sills and battery tray.



No offence m8 but i would not even put a 1.2 engine in a nova that needs that many bits of rust fixing :o never mind a 2ltr. Rick

[barnes]

let him do it ric, ita always worth a chuckle aint it, be honest you gotta laff

[Rick Draper]

lol I can see it now barnes! 'I have cut my inner wings out but dont know how to work a welder, can i just bolt the new ones in place!' :lol: lmfmo.
Rick

[barnes]

can i attach them with blu tack and a hair dryer? ive made a new cross member from bolsar wood and it now held in place with 1inch tacks. i bought my silld from b+q for a window and modified them to fit a nova and the rear arches are made of stone as i copied the design for the channel tunnel as those are som nice arches. im currently lowering the 2litre 16v in with the use of a comb and some elastic bands, will my mounts made of china and glass be ok?

[Rick Draper]

PMSL

[Matt Finary]

Why try and that the p!ss when you don't know the facts!

I am replacing the front upper and lower slam panel(cost me ?40 for a new complete panel with crossmember) and wings because the car was in a smash by the last driver. I am having a new designed floor because I have a in car fuel cell(where the passengers seat was) and no tank under the car and no spare wheel well(because of the powerflow exhaust). I am replacing the sills and rear quarters because I want a mint car for the respray(Rage Extreme chrome). Battery tray was rusty but it was being moved anyway.
As for my welding skills, well after leaving college last year with distinction in welding(arc,mig,tig and gas) and I also got distinctions in motor vehicle service and repair progression award level 1 & 2, NVQ 2( I was top of college every year and had the highest exam results each year) I am going back again this year to do NVQ level 3 and system electronics and turbo systems.

Breeny I now have all the information(good job my girlfriend did french and german to degree level) for the gull wing coversion and are now getting the parts and the roof gutter have gone. so i will have pic soon.


Thanks to Ste, Doddy and Neil Oakley for the help

Matt :D

[barnes]

who cares about your blue peter made fairy washing up liquid bottle nova, i dont, i can sleep fine at night

i love people that cant take jokes

[d0gz_bollox]

hmmm good post turns into a big argument then piss take. oh well was good whilst it lasted.

[neiloakley]

he's got a point. Even if your replacing them just for tha sake of it. If the general car is sound, just save your money and go get a respray (or give it all to me) lol.

[barnes]

he dogz, come on im involved, you knew what to expect

[dan16v]

hey barnes maybe my bfor comment of just buy 1 may hav bin cheaper after all!
on a serious note m8 i hav most of the qualifications in welding as you but theres alot of difference between lapwelding a nice spankin bit of steel or aluminium in the college weldin bay and blowing the bak out of a rusty nova!
to give you an idea i just bought a kplate sxi shell for ?200 needs new arches yes but bay is sound, if i were you i wouldnt fuk with major stress points as it seems like you have replaced every part of the shell!
my cammed 1600 cracked the mount on my sr shell and split the turret i didnt realise till i dropped the lump out!, at the end of the day your playing with your life!
or street cred! just imagine goin to a cruise and your lovely welded floor cracks and your seat falls out ova a speed ramp! lol! :lol:

[jon140]

:| hello just wondering if anyone could help me i am just about to put a 2.0 16v engine into my nova and i havent got s clue how to do it?

[neiloakley]

look for a guide on the internet. Loads around. To be honest, i wouldn't even attempt it until all (or atleast most of your questions are answered. Read the guide, visualise it in your head, then ask questions and make notes.

[jon140]

:snipersm: Can anyone help me i've got a 1.2i nova j reg i am wanting to do an engine conversion with a 2.0 8v or 2.0 16v and can anyone give me directions with the wireing as i'am confused also which engine would be the easiest and cheapest way all information appreciated as iam fed up of posh mummys boys overtaking me and haveing to stop in the slow lane.

[neiloakley]

people spend hours writing a guide for a reason. READ THEM then ask questions.

[Ian]

upped for spanishfly

[Fester]

:?:

[Matt Finary]

Nice to see one of my old posts making a come back!

Matt :)