View Full Version : Bigs 300 bhp xe project
Well might aswell do a thread and show you what im up to. It started off when it was a 1.4 sr looking like this
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a3455637638b126475315l.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr.jpg
And i blow up far to many engine's up so decided to go big block. First step was stripping the car and putting it into the garage ready for the work to comence
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a3527506079b707204141l-1.jpg
Then i took every bit of paint off the front as you would get better welds and can see if any rust was there that shouldnt be. but luckly enough it was quite mint
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr001.jpg
And by this time ive taken most of the sound deading out and all of the underseal. And the first thing i wanted to do was sort out the box section for the alternator
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr002.jpg
Then started to seam weld the front end.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr004.jpg
And in this pic you can see the strengthing plates have started to be welded in place
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr003.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr005.jpg
Then found out that weld through primer is very good and helps with welds so sprayed the front with a few cans. and in this pic you can see ive taken out the firewall, as ive decided i wanted to go down the thottlebody route so it would be better for cooling plus abit more weight has been taken out:D
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/moreweldingdone004.jpg
And you can see where the firewall was it has been grinded right down to a smooth finish. after welding right along the whole seem inside and out to give it the strength it needed and gave me metal to make it all look like it was from factory. Then i started adding more strengthing plates
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/moreweldingdone009.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/moreweldingdone007.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/66046.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/66045.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/66044.jpg
General Baxter
18-12-07, 05:30 PM
very nice but.........
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2006/06/pigeonPA090606_175x125.jpg
sorry lol
how do you plan on getting 300 bhp from a xe?
gonna be hard without nitrous or a turbo
General Baxter
18-12-07, 05:35 PM
i know someon who can get just over 250bhp for you but your looking about ?16k lol
Then i looked into what power i wanted to go for which was a very hard decision for me. But after abit more info was looked at and relised the 300 bhp has been done i decided on that. Then i started buying the bits that would help me on my way
Starting with the thottlebodys which are a 52 mm bore to a 47 butterfly and a 42 taper which is almost the same as the sbd 300 bhp kit apart from the butterfly and bore are bigger.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a4808025093l-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a4808024926l-1.jpg
And then i bought a astra mk2 gte which had the coscast head that i wanted so got it back and took the engine out
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a3724528231b163819341l.jpg
General Baxter
18-12-07, 05:39 PM
i hope it looks like this 250bhp xe
http://www.wilcoxengines.demon.co.uk/images/vaux-eng03.jpg
alltho fitting a dry sump is going to be tight fit lol
Then i seen this for sale and would be perfect to help get the power i wanted. Its a whole system off a 1993 cavalier touring car driven by John clealand which being and earlyer model the didnt have the swindon reverse head so now this exhaust could help with the head in the normal place.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a3724528231b163819341l.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a5906589827l.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a5906538858l.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a5906600783l-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a5906512253l-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/moreworkdonetothe2ltr.jpg
vaughanmc
18-12-07, 05:46 PM
One slammed Nova in the background lol
i know someon who can get just over 250bhp for you but your looking about ?16k lol
Well not that much ive priced it up and it comes to 12.5 k
how do you plan on getting 300 bhp from a xe?
gonna be hard without nitrous or a turbo
To be honist mate its not that hard to do. just a really lot of money
the sdb 300bhp kit WONT make 300bhp...
just the same as the 200+ one does make 200 makes about 170/180ish
i hope it looks like this 250bhp xe
http://www.wilcoxengines.demon.co.uk/images/vaux-eng03.jpg
alltho fitting a dry sump is going to be tight fit lol
Dont worry it will look something like it but much better colour and plus a drysump
Yea i know ste think there kit is more like 280 ish
Then thought about what seats i wanted then i sat in these and fell in love with them, wasnt happy there wernt that light but they were so comfortable i had to get them
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2405205740a3724526357b263218110l-1.jpg
then i thought about the strength more and noticed the inner wings were rubish so cut them out
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/innerarchesboxsection004.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/innerarchesboxsection002.jpg
And put box section ontop of them
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/innerarchesboxsection003.jpg
After being in my mates 6 speed astra turbo i really liked the feel of a 6 speed. So went a bought a recondtion one from VTS
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/bits026.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/bits028.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/bits030.jpg
Then it was time to take off the old gearbox mount ready to fit the new 6 speed one
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/stufftosell001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/moreworkdonetothe2ltr001.jpg
you wont make 300bhp on pump fuel!
oh and awesome work by the way. but im guessing that exhaust is gonna be running through the car? its going to be a mission to get it down past the f28 and under the car!
I know it will be close using pump fuel but as my mates uses racing fuel in he rally car i can get better fuel cheep anyway
oh and awesome work by the way. but im guessing that exhaust is gonna be running through the car? its going to be a mission to get it down past the f28 and under the car!
Na not at all was really surprised that it just makes it over the f28 and goes right over to the bottom of the bulkhead leaving about 1/2 - 1cm gap. So can still go under the car. Got more room to play with as im using a corsa m/c servo so thats not in the way, and all the header tank and washer bottle is being custom made to go where the heater used to be all in one alloy box so leaves even more room.
Interesting build, I hope you've got deep pockets as your going to need them
dont worry there big enough. and dont spend my money on anything else so dont really matter
got a full spec list for the engine build?
lol dan its gonna be massively unreliable
but i'll help in anyway i can of course!
an interesting build, will keep an eye on this one methinks
got a full spec list for the engine build?
Na i havent as yet, Still got to decide on what degree cams i want. But here is a quick list to give you an idea:
2.2 bottom end from a frontera
steel crank and rods
88mm omega pocketed pistons
drysump
stem valves
vxr injectorsdont know if astra or vectra ones yet
double valve springs
solid followers and lifters
steel head gasket
management not sure on which one to go for yet
thottlebodys 52mm bore, 47mm butterfly and taper to a 42mm
head work done by autosprint
lightened flywheel
balanced
and a 3 ince system with high flow manifold
Cant really think what else on the top of my head but if i do ill change it
lol dan its gonna be massively unreliable
but i'll help in anyway i can of course!
Any help is appriated, plus there be a few bacon sandwich init aswell :D
you'll want to add a secondary injector system to your list at 300bhp mate.
well im using hayabusa tb's so there is talk about using them aswell but not 100% sure yet
good luck
Thanks im going to need it
Be very interesting to see if what power this makes once its done.
matthew172
19-12-07, 04:46 PM
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/My2ltr002.jpg
does the alternator clear the chassis leg with what you have done there?
I hope so lol it the same as what someone else has done and there's was fine so no reason why mine wont be
feel the force
19-12-07, 05:28 PM
not being funny or piccy but i wouldent put 300bhp through that sort of welding imo tbh it looks a little poor
Yea you are right, most of the bad welding will be cut out when i cut out the inner arches. and that was a mates welding in the last pic. got someone else doing it now which is alot better, and aslong as it penatrates through it dont really matter what it looks like as im not going to be winning as shows with it
300 from an XE eh?:roll:
Dont mean to sound pessimistic but with the 'spec' you posted up will be nearer 230-240
Like Elgan said you will need an 8 injector set up (not GM either btw) and some mentalist cams and rev to over 10k.... It will cost you WAYYYYYY in excess of ?12.5k, unless you know someone who builds race engines and can get parts at cost.
The BTCC cars were 270 ish and needed a rebuild every day, so dont blame me for being a little sceptical!:D
Head will need A LOT of work to flow that much and valves will need to be huge....
All the bestlol
As Will said, I hope you like rebuilding engines as it will probably be once a month job for you :)
You dont need 300bhp in a nova. 230 is plenty and a lot more reliable.
craig green
20-12-07, 10:41 AM
Touring cars were 290ish at the XE's peak of development in the early Vectras. But they were limited by the BTCC rules to 8500rpm.
But as Will says, to get near that power, you are going to need a huge amount of work on the cylinder head (lots of money) not to mention best to lose the belt driven water pump, dry sump system, under drive pulleys & a low resistance competition alternator etc.
I'd seriously think about settling for a power output somewhat lower, if only to enable you to have a more driveable, reliable & useable engine as a result.
At 300bhp the engine would need/deserve a proper comp spec gearbox too. Have you got ?xxxx's for a sequential box?
To be really honest, 300 bhp in a nova is gonna be a total waste.
Build a let if you want big power
200-250 bhp in a lightweight shoebox is more than enough
cokk waving gets you nowhere, apart from top of the big guy list in the pub bragging championships
If you pull it off, fair play, but i dont see the point. seems a whole waste of money to me
good luck mate.. be good see it when it all done
The engine in my mates is 222hp @ 8640 with a 8800 limit, it will hopefully be nearer 235 with a new head on it, maybe more but 222 was insane anyway.
Very peaky power which is why its having a few changes.
One thing I am certain of is that the F28 wont be much good, the OE vauxhalls gearboxes dont like high revving engines, I'd imagine the F28 will suffer from the same problem. Get a SCCR in it minimum IMO.
i do understand where you all are coming from and respect that your all trying to save me money and have a more reliable. and most have far more experience then me about big power engines. But As for the money i dont go drinking dont do drugs and havent got a women to spend my money on and havent got a house. So why not do something like this as a one off to prove my skills and the fact i can do it and not to be bragging about it as that just insnt me. And for tho's that say put a let in instead that is not a option i dont like turbo's and love the sound of a tb'd xe. And i do know a company near me that builds 250 - 300 bhp xe's all the time. and my mates are helping me rebuild it as they help build these high powered xe's. And about the list i put, i did say that was on the top of my head as my mates is the person behind me basically telling me what i need to get it. and it will run 8 injectors as thats why ive got the hiyabussa tb's as they can run 8 very easy. or get bigger set of injectors for them. And when you say i will need the dry sump etc i know these things.
well, good luck anyways, but personally, really, what is the point.
if it were for competition, maybe, but still, im not getting it.
If you have that much money to blow, trust me, dont do it on a nova, or for that matter, any car.
Put it in the bank, in an ISA or something. Bricks and mortar is the way forward mate
Yea that would be the better option. but at the moment im on really good money so doing now before its to late. But im not taking the engine to 300 brake right away any how. im want to see what gains thing give. like put the engine in standard first and see what power that gives then standard engine with the tb's only then with the headwork and cams etc. And its my 3rd car so wont really get used all the time just for the track days and do hope to get quite good at it and maybe go up another level?
if your on good money now, put some of it away cos you may not always be on good money.
not trying to dissuade you, im just giving you a bit of advice from someone who spunked a huge wad on a car to use it for 6 months.
honestly
invest
well i will put some away. just once the car is up and running on a standard engine ill probley sort something out then.
Welsh Dan
20-12-07, 02:21 PM
Spanner in the works...
if you want to show off your skills, like the sound of a TB'd engine, and want biger power, why not sell off your C20XE kit and fit a v6 and then tune+tb that? :D
i do want to go round corners not through them lol
Welsh Dan
20-12-07, 02:26 PM
First nova Z22SE conversion?
could of been a option but just wanted a 20xe. wanted the coscast head. but i am getting a Z22SE bottom end to use tho instead of the c20xe one
dhdev (Oli)
20-12-07, 02:52 PM
If you're out to prove yourself and want to be able to go round corners as well, then why not a high spec 1.6 16v? The only reason people go 2.0 is because its cheaper, if you can afford to tune it (which you've said you can) then its gotta be a 1.6. 240bhp has been acheived by SBD and that is more than enough (possibly too much) in a FWD lightweight hatchback. :thumb:
Yea that is true such as yours. but if a bigblock is set up right it no reason why it can handle just as well as a small block. And ive got far to much and done to go small block now. but i just want a big block nova. blaime dar and lee for that lol
First nova Z22SE conversion?
Now that would be something. :thumb:
could of been a option but just wanted a 20xe. wanted the coscast head. but i am getting a Z22SE bottom end to use tho instead of the c20xe one
Sorry that's a stupid thing to say. It doesn't matter what cylinder head you have, with the amount of work to be done on it, a GM head will do equally well as a Coscat head.
yea but it's the fact that a gm one could go porus which ive seen a few times now
coscast is no better performance wise than a GM head anyway
i know there is no difference at all in the performance. just they dont go porus
not often they dont, theres not many
big big urban horror story myth type legend
dhdev (Oli)
20-12-07, 03:16 PM
but if a bigblock is set up right it no reason why it can handle just as well as a small block. And ive got far to much and done to go small block now. but i just want a big block nova. blaime dar and lee for that lol
Fair enough if a big block's what you want, and not starting a debate here but a small block will always out handle a big block with the same amount of work. The flipside is that a big block will always produce more horsepower for the same amount of work. ;)
i know it's not commen to but two of my mates went porus and they know of another three. so i wanted to be safe then sorry
Fair enough if a big block's what you want, and not starting a debate here but a small block will always out handle a big block with the same amount of work. The flipside is that a big block will always produce more horsepower for the same amount of work. ;)
Thats true. But the small block vs big block will always be a debate no matter what
i do want to go round corners not through them lol
lol lol lol lol lol :thumb:
just vaux trev
20-12-07, 05:27 PM
who's car is this???
gammienov16v
20-12-07, 05:33 PM
not being funny or piccy but i wouldent put 300bhp through that sort of welding imo tbh it looks a little poorto be honest mate i was thinking the same thing, he wont be going far wen the front end rip's its way off. best of luck to him thought, i like the enthusiasum.
to be honest mate i was thinking the same thing, he wont be going far wen the front end rip's its way off. best of luck to him thought, i like the enthusiasum.
The welding doesn't look great I agree but put a let or a xe in a unwelded nova shell and I guarantee it wont tear it out quickly.
They must be welded but they won't fall apart as people quick
gammienov16v
20-12-07, 05:49 PM
The welding doesn't look great I agree but put a let or a xe in a unwelded nova shell and I guarantee it wont tear it out quickly.
They must be welded but they won't fall apart as people quick i no mate bin there and done that and it started pullin away from the back of the supention mount's attached at the bulk head, that only took about 6month's so it won't last much more if your going to nailing it with 300 hp at the wheels.
Dan 130
20-12-07, 06:22 PM
in all fairness **** looking welds can still be strong it takes a bit of practice to have good looking welds
in all fairness **** looking welds can still be strong it takes a bit of practice to have good looking welds
and that is 100% correct takes alot of time and practice to get welds looking good
i know it's not commen to but two of my mates went porus and they know of another three. so i wanted to be safe then sorry
Fair enough.
Good luck with the project.
This is JamieF's (from MIGweb) engine from his old Astra (still going strong in a Westie I understand). Produced around 220-240.
Engine:
20XE with 1mm overbore giving 2044cc, 87mm forged Omega race pistons give a comp ratio of 11.3:1, SBD/Arrow Steel Con Rods and ARP heavy duty rod bolts, heavy duty bearings, SBD steel inner oil pump gear and new outer gear, SBD nylon relief valve, Ported and polished head, SBD/Kent Spec cams(inlet 284 duration/11.40mm lift, exhaust 276 duration,11.04mm lift, SBD/Kent vernier pulleys, Kent valve springs, steel spring caps, 11mm bronze valve guides, 2mm cometic steel head gasket, ARP head stud kit, ARP flywheel bolts, MBE 967E 3D programmable engine management with distributor-less ignition, Jenvey 45mm direct to head throttle bodies, 90mm trumpets, pipercross air filter, bosch cream injectors, FSE fuel pressure regulator with gauge set to 65 PSI(4.5 bar) Bosch 909 fuel pump, SBD fast road exhaust manifold with stainless exhaust fully wrapped in exhaust wrap, rev limit set at 8100rpm.
matthew172
21-12-07, 10:34 AM
This is the sbd 299 bhp kit and i think its about 12k
2.0L High Power Full Race Specification Kit
For 2.0 Litre 16V XE & LN Engine
Exhaust manifold type needed to run this with this kit *C-2.0L-XE
The final upgrade of the 2.0L range includes a steel crank, an upper injection system, fuel regulator upgrade and a dry sump system. This kit uses +1mm diameter & 5mm stem valves, which reduces the load on the valve train & does not interrupt the flow of air so much as standard size valve stems.
It also uses the MBE970 ECU, which does about everything apart from making the tea! - Barometric sensing, Alternator sensing (tells alternator not to charge except when throttle is closed - reducing the load on the engine when accelerating), Direct firing coils (each spark plug has its own coil), Launch control, Traction control, 8 injectors, Lambda control, Radiator fan control - the list goes on, & oh yes, it even runs your engine!http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20race%20spec%20graph.gif
There are optional extras available for the wiring loom, however they must be ordered at the outset, as they cannot be added later. They are Alternator adapters, Launch control including selector knob & button and radiator fan control.
When testing this kit, using 88.00mm pistons & 100 RON Unleaded fuel we have achieved 299 BHP (Didn't quite make the 300 BHP) & 203 LBFT torque.
Trevor Willis (http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Case_Studies/CaseStudies_TrevorWillis.htm) stayed top 2.0L driver for 2004 & 2005 in the MSA British Hillclimb Championship using this kit in his OMS.
Graham Ford (http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Case_Studies/CaseStudies_GrahamFord.htm) has gradually upgraded his Caterham 7 from our Basic Taper Throttle kit to this Full Race Specification kit with eight injectors, dry sump kit, 233mm flywheel & 5 1/2" clutch.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts.gifParts in this kit
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%202.gif
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%205.gifhttp://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%203.gif
Dry Sump Kit included in the TP290 Kit
(shown is the OS-DSK3P including coupling kit)
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%206.gifhttp://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%204.gif
The upper injector kit shown below is included in the TP290 kit.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%20top%20of%20the%20range/Full%20Race%20Spec%20parts%207.gif
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%203rd%20upgrade/2.0L%20Pistons%20&%20Rods.gif
Headwork
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Taper%20Kits/New%202.0L%20Taper%20Kits/2.0L%20TP%20kit%203rd%20upgrade/2.0L%20Headwork.gif
matthew172
21-12-07, 10:38 AM
and you need to use this exhaust manifold with that kit to get that power
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Exhaust_Manifolds/Exhaust_Manifolds_20l/EX-M-AST3-S16V.gif
ive just copied this info from the sbd website before anyone shoots me down
some lovely bits of kit there. most of that stuff i will be using but some of the things i will be getting bigger ie cams and my tb's are 2mm bigger on the bore. and the manifold ive already got that is built for around 300 bhp. and all of my head work will be done by autosprint as ive heard very good things about them and they can make my cams to what i want from blanks. the lony main thing im really stuck on is what management im going to use. but that im going to look into at the last min and get more information on what would be best
craig green
21-12-07, 12:59 PM
Anything that'll run 8 injectors & your mapper is experienced with tbh.
some lovely bits of kit there. most of that stuff i will be using but some of the things i will be getting bigger ie cams and my tb's are 2mm bigger on the bore. and the manifold ive already got that is built for around 300 bhp. and all of my head work will be done by autosprint as ive heard very good things about them and they can make my cams to what i want from blanks. the lony main thing im really stuck on is what management im going to use. but that im going to look into at the last min and get more information on what would be best
8 Injectors IMO isn't needed, Steve Broughton made just over 290hp on a xe @ Track and Road using 4 injectors iirc. I would use either one of the Pectel ECU's, T2 is a good unit, MBE tbh is the best for value, DTA is also a very good ecu.
Obviously as you have a money tree in your garden stick some T10 or similar on it lol Certainly worth its cost in bragging rights :thumb:
Every tuner has a preffered ecu, I found that both Steves @ Track and Road were quite open to what they use, they map some rather tasty race cars that are on ecu's we can only dream of but their understanding on mapping engines is what allows them to be able to get such good results from a lot of ecu's.
2 Top blokes that I would trust with any engine to map, serious R/R setup they have too :eek: :D
BRoadGhost
21-12-07, 09:48 PM
If you want to build a fast N/A nova i'm all for it.
Totally agree with you not liking turbos & in a lightweight shell you want revs & power not torque.
The ex BTCC exhaust is a thing of beauty.
Advise on investments seems a little strange, how can bricks & mortar be the future if he wants to build a fast car?
I don't think reliability should be factored in as a minus either - drive any engine on the redline & it'll burst faster than at say 90% whether it's 30BHP or 330…
To conclude I'ud like to remind peeps that some xe's weigh the same as smallblocks.
i know there is no difference at all in the performance. just they dont go porus
it's not porous, it's a cracked oilway...
and it can happen on a coscat head too, but it's easily fixed if it does happen anyway
boffer8
21-12-07, 10:44 PM
the chevrolet WTCC cars use an advanced 20xe engine. this is there spec of it.
Type 2.0-l, 4-cylinder transversally installed, Motec engine management Displacement 1,998 cc (88 mm bore X 82 mm stroke) Intake system 64 mm throttle, individual injection, plenum with internal trumpets Valve train 2 overhead camshafts; 16-valve, direct-mech tappet, 35 mm inlet & exhaust valve diameter, coil spring Compression ratio 12 to 1 Horsepower 280 hp at 8,500 rpm Torque 267 nm at 5,800 rpm Top Speed (estimated) 254 km/h depending on gear & final ratio
this engine has so much torque its unbelieveable!
MOTEC is about the best engine management you can get no matter what the engine is. thats if you have the money to get it sorted in the forst place which by the sounds of it you do!
all credit to you pal if you can get 300bhp and keep it reliable it will be one rapid nova that!
Personally id rather have more torque than bhp as this is what makes it feel quick! plus it allows you to make it properly shift out of corners better!
Jonlem I know that i dont need 8 Injectors but ive looked into it fairly deep ,And when making power of over 250 + bhp they say if you use 8 injectors the engine will run abit smoother. But yes you are right if i used the astra/ vectra vxr ones they would be plenty big enough for what i want.
ste I never knew that the coscast one can still crack. I thought they didnt go porus because of the oil core plug think its called that :confused:
boffer8 Yea know what your sayin its no point having loads of bhp and no torque, you just want go anywhere. but with the set up im having im hoping to get good gains of torque what havent got a clue yet. But time will tell
could of been a option but just wanted a 20xe. wanted the coscast head. but i am getting a Z22SE bottom end to use tho instead of the c20xe one
more rain on your parade..... the C20XE head will not work with the Z22SE bottom end.
you have got the 22XE and 22SE mixed up.
the frontera 2.2 is of the same family to the 20XE. the Z22se is a chain drive, exhaust on the back type engine.
more rain on your parade..... the C20XE head will not work with the Z22SE bottom end.
you have got the 22XE and 22SE mixed up.
the frontera 2.2 is of the same family to the 20XE. the Z22se is a chain drive, exhaust on the back type engine.
opps thats what i ment. the early 2.2's they made as you have pointed out. thanks :thumb:
ste I never knew that the coscast one can still crack. I thought they didnt go porus because of the oil core plug think its called that :confused:
they do, you just dont really hear about it happening much...
this is a crack (the so called porus) head..
http://www.orsas.com/CarStuff/cav/images/info/marked(b).jpg
tom reid
22-12-07, 06:04 PM
Hmmm, not sure about this, but don't want to slag you off either.
Can't imagine why your using that shell, it needs some seriously professional workmanship on it to cope with the intended stresses, the welding carried out so far just doesn't look good enough.
If it looks good, then it generally is, if it doesn't look good.....
Now, I'm not suggesting I could do any better with your intended project, but just don't see any quality so far.
As said a 300bhp xe is achievable but at massive cost......If you want that sort of power a rebuilt/decent spec'd let motor would be a much cheaper option at around a quarter of the price, I will however watch this thread with some interest, good luck!
Right i know what your all saying, i can get 300 brake much much cheeper in a let but i really really dont want a let. i DONT like turbos and love the sound of tb's. And i dont want to sound big headed here im just making a point out but i earn between ?160 - ?200 a day so the money is not a problem. its something ive wanted to do for a very long time now so thats what im doing. and yes i agree the welding dont look as good as other projects on here. but as long as it penatrates the metal i dont care what it looks like as im not going to win shows with it. But i do understand where your coming from as if the welds were rubbish yea the car wouldnt last to long
Welsh Dan
22-12-07, 07:11 PM
Can you get me a job? :D
tom reid
22-12-07, 07:14 PM
Mate, I wasn't slating your car or you're commitment to this project, I actually WANT to see you do it, as I love the sound of high revving engines too.:thumb:
But do you really want to spend all that money and then fit it into a car that doesn't do credit to the engine?
Can you get me a job? :D
If you can cut hair and handle being round 22 girls allday. sure lol
Welsh Dan
22-12-07, 07:22 PM
The first, no, the latter yes lol.
Getting back on topic I wish you luck with this mate.
The thing is, YOU'R missing the point here as well. Your basically planning to build a highly stressed motorsport engine for the road. It WILL need a rebuild probably around every 8000 or so miles, and thats if you dont rag its nuts off, which i take it you will be or theres even less point.
No ones disputing that you wont do it, or that you can afford it. What were trying to say is your basically building a timebomb, your bolting it in a car where anything over 250bhp is a waste of time, and the only excuse you can come up with is you 'like the sound of TB's'. On the road youll never be able to use the power as it'll all be at the top of the rev range, unlike a turbo, secondly if you want to use it on track your chassis wont be able to cope with it. FACT. Dars spent the last 3 years tuning his shell to take 190 bhp, and even his would struggle like feck to deal with 300!
My suggestions are.. if you want the power, build a turbo. It will be more RELIABLE (not taking cost into account). If you want the sound of TB's (who wouldnt :)) build it to around 230 - 250 bhp, again, purely so it'll last more than 3 trips to work and back!
BUT if you purely want to build the highest spec XE so you can wave your dick around, fair play to you pal, no one can tell you what to do, all im trying to do is put this into perspective for you. If after all this advice from everyone you still decide to do it, fair bloody play and crack on mate, i look forward to seeing the result!
Mate, I wasn't slating your car or you're commitment to this project, I actually WANT to see you do it, as I love the sound of high revving engines too.:thumb:
But do you really want to spend all that money and then fit it into a car that doesn't do credit to the engine?
Oh i know that, but i can see people's point in the welding. and know myself it dont look great but can say it is strong welds just not good looking ones lol . And yea i do to be honist. i love the nova and cant think of any other car i would want to put the engine into. but to be honist i know every one says the 300 brake will be to much for it. Maybe but can anyone prove it as its not really been done. its just the same as all the people putting 300 - 400 brake lets in one. whats the difference apart from mine being n/a ?
Lots and lots. Mainly down to how the power is delivered.
A turbo makes peak power at around 4.5k, your NA will be making it around 8k!
I know what your sayng Lee, well as said in the tread im going step by step with the power to see what every bit will give the engine in gain. so maybe when i do get to 250 brake if it is to much then maybe ill take your advise and keep to that? But will just be nice to get on a track and race with you lot and hopefully learn from you aswell
If you want to learn anything from us, lesson 1 is simple. Chassis first, then engine! :thumb:
lesson learned lol now do i get homework with that or shall we leave that for Dave haha
pmsl. If you have the bottomless bank balance you say you have, you could produce a serious tool of a track car, but at the same time you could produce a massive lemon. Just dont automatically think big power is the answer!
Dans car is the one to watch next year.
Yea thats true, well for next year im hoping to take it on the track with about 240 bhp as ill have the first year getting used to that power as the most ive had is the gte, so in the winter ill finish the rest off with hopefully abit of skill behind me for the next season
Maybe but can anyone prove it as its not really been done. its just the same as all the people putting 300 - 400 brake lets in one. whats the difference apart from mine being n/a ?
think a 3/400 break LET would rip it apart before a 300 bhp na c20, due to the shear amount of the the let would have over the xe
aslong as the welding is strong, it dont matter what it look's like :thumb:
http://pistonheads.com/sales/310897.htm
buy that
save lots of money for other trick bits
hmm thats a really good price for that. you got me thinking now
not sure what inlet/ex it comes with
theres a few other XEs on ther running dry sumps etc, high specs
ok thanks. i will be looking at them abit later
gammienov16v
23-12-07, 04:30 PM
in all fairness **** looking welds can still be strong it takes a bit of practice to have good looking weldstrue it took me a good year of practtice, to get good welds and i still carn't always get it.
practice makes perfect:thumb:
Well seeing as i havent updated this for ages might aswell give a little update. Carring on from the inner arches, as i finished the box section and it was strong enough for my liking. Then went about the rest for the finshing touches that i wanted. i.e the smooth euro look. so here is the first pic of most of the inner arch cut out ready for the fabricated plates i made to go in place.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/backoftheengine033.jpg
then the first plate welded in
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/backoftheengine034.jpg
then the rest of the plates in place
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits040.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/backoftheengine035.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits041.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits043.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/backoftheengine038.jpg
and with a bit of paint just so it dont rust
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits048.jpg
still dont know weather to put a plate in between these to stiffen it up even more :confused:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits051.jpg
And after the other side was complete i started on cutting the other side out.
notice on this one the three layers of metal :eek:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/backoftheengine043-1.jpg
Then it came to mounting the engine in the car to weld the six speed mount into place.
(this first bit is copied from my other tread )
Bought this conversion kit little under 2 years ago
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230243774288&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230243774288&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013)
And yesterday my and a mate went to fit the engine alone with a f28 to weld the 6 speed mount into place. Thats what we thought, we bolted the drivers side mount on first all seems good. Then to the rear mount which took us about 2 hours to get it in line with the hole to put the bolt through. we done that and all still seemed ok untill we tryed the 6 speed mount and went down hill from there. And the 6 speed mount was bought from C Ashley so we know that will be fine and the gap was about 1 - 1 1/2 inches to short for the mount to fit :eek: and chris drilled the holes abit to close together for the bolts to line up with the rubber mount so off it came anyway to make one of the holes big enough so i can get both bolts in the hole. So then we taken the drivers mount off and put just the 6 speed mount on and pushed the engine over to the left and could not get the drivers mount on at all. So we thought wtf is wrong and then looked at some projects treads and other mounts for sale. then it hit us they sent the corsa mount :mad: And that left me with hours of work for nothing :cry: Well here are a few pics to show you anyway.
When i first put the engine in on just the drivers mount
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs123.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs121.jpg
And just the 6 speed mount on the leg which fits very nice
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs013-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs012-1.jpg
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/new3.5/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=857360) http://www.pngclub.com/forum/new3.5/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=857360) http://www.pngclub.com/forum/new3.5/buttons/quickreply.gif (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=857360)
And because we were so mad and needed cheering up we decided to fit my manifold to see what it looks like :D I will be cutting out the slam panel to so dont worry about it being abit close on the pass side.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs007.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs009.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs008.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs011-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs010-1.jpg
And then orderd the 2ltr mount for chris ashley to sort the problem out
Then a few days later this came in the post :D
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova005.jpg
So then started right away to finsh mounting the engine and gearbox. heres the pic of the mount in place
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova006-1.jpg
then ck welding the six speed mount into place after we got the car level then the engine
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova007-1.jpg
and to make sure the engine wasnt going to move i filled the mount up with tigerseal
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits071.jpg
and the mount spot welding in place intill i take the engine out and fully weld it allround
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova009-1.jpg
here you can see ive cut the slam panel out so it dont hit the manifold
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/newnova008-1.jpg
And then had abit of money to play with so got on the phone and orderd new wheels for the car and a rally cross wide arch kit.
few days later the wheels came
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits069.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/bits047.jpg
Pro race 1.2 on 195-45-16.
then about four weeks later the kit arrived
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/nights018-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mywidearchkit011.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mywidearchkit001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mywidearchkit003.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mywidearchkit006-1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits059.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits058.jpg
Then went about getting my 2.2 bottom end(X22XE ) after many months calling around and serching i found a car with it so up i go to take the engine out and keep the bottom end. for a good price of £120 :D. so got it back and here it is and have to say thanks to ck for coming up and helping me take it out in the rain :(
LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE FLYWHEEL :eek:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mynovapics011.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mynovapics013.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mynovapics012.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/mynovapics014.jpg
and while i was up there i took the oil cooler off it as it was much better then a standard astra gte one. the 2.2 one is the bottom one
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits064.jpg
And now just going through bits and bobs ive got to go on.
ax gt single wiper motor
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits063.jpg
modified cam cover ( can you work out whats different )
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits066.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits065.jpg
cavi turbo six speed gear shifter
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits070.jpg
vectra v6 brakes
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits067.jpg
beside nova gte disks
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits068.jpg
six speed fwd conversion kit
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits075.jpg
conversion hubs
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits074.jpg
full gasket kit
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits078.jpg
equel lenght shaft set up
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits045.jpg
corsa gsi brake set up
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits047.jpg
maxda rx7 twin turbo rad and twin fan
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/2ltr/2ltrbits046.jpg
and here ive started cutting the spare wheel out ready to put the rad in the boot
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs030.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs031.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs032.jpg
and here ive marked out there about where i want to cut the rear arch out for the rear arches.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs024.jpg
just to make sure i cut a little bit first to see behind
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs025.jpg
i was and had plenty to play with so......
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs029.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/bigs028.jpg
still plenty that can get cut out
And finishing for now with a few pics of the car on wheels with the kit on with tape lol just so i could see what it will look like. from a previous tread a week or so ago.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova099.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova098.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova097.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova096.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova095.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova094.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova100.jpg
The Simps
18-05-08, 11:01 AM
:cool:
Whoa that is shell is a pear! lol
I would keep my eye out for a mint 1.2 shell etc there are a few about at the moment....
You will always be chasing the rot around tbh...
twistysnovagte
18-05-08, 04:58 PM
very interesting read bigs,hope it all works out for you mate.i think priority is a mint shell,(the current one dont look in good health),then start on the chassis work(priority),a fully prepared shell will then be waiting for a fully prepared engine.im loving the enthusiasm you have and if i had a decent wedge going in the bank,then id be totaly in the same frame of mind.good luck once again mate, will be keeping close tabs on this thread.:thumb:
I dont mean to be rude but whats the idea with the banana manifold? Wish i had the space to do a track car
There is more chyance of me finishing my Escort off than that car being finished !
Find yourself a good shell mate as that is NOT worth putting anytime into.
Personally I'd also sell that manifold and get a BTB or Simpson one, there is nothing cool about having half of the engine bay hanging through the front bumper
Rick Draper
19-05-08, 11:11 PM
There is more chyance of me finishing my Escort off than that car being finished !
Find yourself a good shell mate as that is NOT worth putting anytime into.
Personally I'd also sell that manifold and get a BTB or Simpson one, there is nothing cool about having half of the engine bay hanging through the front bumper
Yup and TBH how are you going to crack 300bhp from a xe when swindon with unlimited budget did not?
i believe swindon had to stick to the 1998cc, this is going to be 2.2 or 2.3 when the engine is built. not saying its going to hit 300hp but in the long run it would have developed into a similar spec to sbd's 292+ kit and swindons top spec all be it a larger capacity. it could even be lower in power due it being a longer stroke but it should make up for that in torque.
i know what you lot are saying but tbh its not that bad a shell. it looks far worst then it is. the underneith is in fantastic condition and that bit by the back is rusting because i grinded it all down etc and just left it. and regarding the manifold i will never get rid of that. saying that it must not be as good as a BTB or Simpson one is plane stupid imo. how when the btcc put the highest standard on there cars and this will give me gains that i will be looking for. and the fact that no one else has got this manifold and ive got a bit of history on my car.
oh jonlem how can you say its not cool having the engine bay hanging through the front bumper. what you on about? when did i say it was cool! and how will the engine bay go through the bumper ! yea
oh jonlem how can you say its not cool having the engine bay hanging through the front bumper. what you on about? when did i say it was cool! and how will the engine bay go through the bumper ! yea
Seriously dude, you need to stop writing in this thread! lol
The manifold is 99% pointless in that you wont see an extra 50-60 bhp which is what you will need to get near 300 bhp.
MASSIVE amount of work for little gain is what Jon boy is saying and most will agree!
Seriously dude, you need to stop writing in this thread! lol
The manifold is 99% pointless in that you wont see an extra 50-60 bhp which is what you will need to get near 300 bhp.
MASSIVE amount of work for little gain is what Jon boy is saying and most will agree!
doesnt quite make sense to me mate... the manifold is an ex 1993 btcc manifold came straight off a touring car. which on average at the time was using the std style head (non reverse) and producing around the 280hp mark. so the way i see it is how can the manifold and system be restrictive at all??? it might not be the best design with today's standards as most ppl use 4-2-1 manifolds but they generaly only help with mid range torque.
like ive said previously this is a base spec to start with. no doubt at a later when the spec of the engine progresses when we feel the need we will no doubt get btb or build a top spec 4-2-1 manifold but in the same oriantation to this one going over the gearbox...
oh yeah nothing hangs out the engine bay at all, it sits neatly in place only just in the way of the standard rad...
the reasons for it, parcialy it looks mental lol. and the fact it goes over the gearbox gives us a massive amount of room under the engine. so we can drop the engine lower in the bay to lower the centre of gravity. speed bumbs every where down here and a std small block downpipe/manifold allways scrapes lol
Do you not think that BTB or Simpson for example couldn't make you a equally good flowing manifold that actually fitted the car ? That manifold is without doubt the bollocks BUT your going to me making a LOT of work for yourself which will most probably lead to this project never getting finished.
The money required to build a engine of that power is more than most people earn in a year, combine that with a suitable gearbox and diff and your into a LOT of money ! oh and then there is still a small matter of a suitable chassis to put it all in.
Stop dreaming and be realistic, its NEVER going to happen
What are you on about??? There are reasons for this manifold which you clearly have not read.. making a LOT of work?? theres loads of room. theres no point me trying to explain, its all in the posts just u must not have read through them.
The shell is not bad at all. the rear arches are all being cut right out and tubbed so thats all the rust gone there. same with the rear panel thats being replaced which is not a big deal at all. and the rear chassis legs thats literaly surface rust. but what will that matter once its all cut out and replaced. itts having a full weld in cage, rear is being turreted.
What reasons ???
1- so you can run the engine lower ?
2- say you have a btcc manifold on your car
They are the only 2 reasons I can think of, as for things like the equal length shaft setup have you considered that when you lower the engine even more your shafts aren't going to be at a happy angle.
I've read the whole thread and everytime I read it I laugh to myself, I'm sure you have looked into Pepe's build, I don't know the guy but clearly he had the right idea but I wouldn't even like to think how much that car owed him. He didn't build it on a budget and even if he struck a deal on every part it will of still cost a fortune.
Your trying to build a full on race car using bits you can pick up from a scrapyard, that alone tells me you haven't got a chance of getting this thing done.
Sorry to sound so negative, truth hurts eh
OllieKing
20-05-08, 10:24 PM
looks like a lot of work but should be worth it, hope u get the 300 bhp
What are you on about??? There are reasons for this manifold which you clearly have not read.. making a LOT of work?? theres loads of room. theres no point me trying to explain, its all in the posts just u must not have read through them.
The shell is not bad at all. the rear arches are all being cut right out and tubbed so thats all the rust gone there. same with the rear panel thats being replaced which is not a big deal at all. and the rear chassis legs thats literaly surface rust. but what will that matter once its all cut out and replaced. itts having a full weld in cage, rear is being turreted.
lol Like Jon asked, what are the reasons for the manifold again?
Dont you think if it was that great, it would have been adopted by sprinters/hill climbers/rally driving novas?
What we are saying is its a wasted effort. The shell is like Swiss Cheese and it just aint gonna work. If you are lowering the engine, you will need to fabricate mounts, lower arms, steering rack mounts, tie bars - then you will have issues with hub/strut/driveshaft connection...
:roll:
now now ladies..... a constructive discussion is good but I can see atleast two people will get emotionally wound up and get the keyboard rage.....
keep it technical folks.
Sorry Stuart.
I'll come back to this thread in 6 months and see how the btcc nova is coming along
BRoadGhost
21-05-08, 12:55 PM
That exhaust manifold is radical in design and is suited for FWD running a dry sump and low ride height. You'll need to run a non o.e pedal box setup as it runs where the original servo mounts.
Induction temps might be something to consider when running exhaust tubing that way ~ a BTCC car would have a box on the TB's with a cold air feed. You'ud almost certainly want to heat wrap it esp' if it'll be glowing red hot from the 9,000 rpm+ you hope for.
If you are serious about a BTCC inspired build then ditch the wide arches and think about things like structural rigidity, corner weights, ride height and wheel base. BTCC cars don't have a wider trac - so look at how the cavalier was modified for the route you should go.
Don't let anyone tell you that manifold isn't the tits ~ although it's not made from titanium [like some 300HP+ N/a Novas have]. Thing is you can get the front very low with relatively little fabrication work; the back in turn requires extensive fabrication to just get the car to sit level.
Get this right and I'm sure people would like it if it "only" had near stock power.
t45_ste
01-11-08, 02:16 PM
Do you fancy selling the manifold?
a little off-topic, but i'm just wondering.. here in holland youre always told, dont mess with the exhaust manifold, a different one (like a Lexmaul) will give just a 5hp and about 8-10 nm of torque.
so why are all the uk guys changing the manifold?
if you've heard that its probably because the stock manifold is good for 180 or so bhp.
above that you need an item thats going to flow well.
thats where the likes of BTB, John wilcoz, tony law exhaust, etc come in, they have been making awesome manifolds for years and years, that with the right mods will help gain more than your usual '5bhp'
tbh there what id call proper manifold, not where some companies thought we'll make a manifold slightly larger than stock and claim it makes 15bhp more on a stock engine, wont work like that with an xe
a little off-topic, but i'm just wondering.. here in holland youre always told, dont mess with the exhaust manifold, a different one (like a Lexmaul) will give just a 5hp and about 8-10 nm of torque.
so why are all the uk guys changing the manifold?when your chasing horsepower tho 5bhp is worth going for
hows this actually going? is tthe btcc nova done?
BRoadGhost
01-11-08, 10:51 PM
An exhaust quoting +5 BHP will be on the stock engine.
Put that same exhaust on an engine that's had the induction improved you'll see a larger gain from "just the exhaust".
Do some head work to the above and see more power from "just the exhaust". Understand it works on a sliding scale…
Interesting read this thread.....
The manifold is utter pap for your use. Its designed for an XE thats sitting around 10inch further back and around 6inch lower compared to a standard XE Cav. Not only does it look a mess, its funking totally useless for your need!!
As for a figure near 300bhp? And CK saying it'll be a similiar spec to a Swindon built motor but higher cc's? Well, I hope youve got a house you can re-mortgage.......serveral times over!!!!!
I have had the chance to have a look at a stripped down Swindon engine (my mate is rebuilding his) and there are modifications to the head and block that you would never think of.
A cheap way of getting your hands on one is to buy a single seater with one fitted. That would also be cheaper than buying the bits and building a 300bhp XE from scratch :D
dar did you take pics of the swindon engine?
some mods swindon do are use oversized buckets, but i wouldnt mind seeing a swindow motor in bits:D
No pics, I will try and remember my camera next time I am down there.
ace-media
02-11-08, 10:31 AM
I have had the chance to have a look at a stripped down Swindon engine (my mate is rebuilding his) and there are modifications to the head and block that you would never think of.
A cheap way of getting your hands on one is to buy a single seater with one fitted. That would also be cheaper than buying the bits and building a 300bhp XE from scratch :D
I'll second that! No point in even trying to by the head alone without getting a new mortgage lol
Mate of mine (well, casual acquaintance) has a Swindon head off one of the Cav's - proper reverse one - you won't see work like that anywhere else - as Dar says the bits in there are unbelievable.
Good luck chasing 220bhp fella ;)
think a reverse head bare go for around £3k:cool:
Interesting read this thread.....
The manifold is utter pap for your use. Its designed for an XE thats sitting around 10inch further back and around 6inch lower compared to a standard XE Cav. Not only does it look a mess, its funking totally useless for your need!!
As for a figure near 300bhp? And CK saying it'll be a similiar spec to a Swindon built motor but higher cc's? Well, I hope youve got a house you can re-mortgage.......serveral times over!!!!!
read what ive said properly before trying to quote something like that.
i clearly have said the spec will end up being very close to btcc spec but will take several years.
it will be a std xe to start with. then the throttle bodies and managment will be going on. then it will be the slow and laborious task of building the bottom end, the the head ect ect (prob be a years worth of savings for BIGS on each the head and the bottom end)
by the end of it i would say 280hp is deffinatly possible prob with bit more torque than the average high end 2ltr/2.1ltr xe (86mm stroke) 300hp is abit exagerated i would say tbh. JRE dont get much more than 300hp from his 2.4xe's. think it was 311hp or 322hp hes made so far...
novarobbo
10-11-08, 02:23 AM
just read this whole thread..
firstly - i'll say it seems everyone seems jealous of your manifold and your money.. i only actually read afew decent comments and afew people actually helping you out.. it all seems like what rick draper has recently had to go though all the s**t about spending your money else where ect.. you spend it how you want to and on what you want and do what you want.. if it doesn't achive the figures you want then you mess about with it some more ect.. which is probably what you would do.. its all trial and error you wont get it right first time i think this guy knows this! so why just say it wont make what he wants.. as has been said it will take several years but it will/should hopefully get there! :)
secondly - i cant understand why people dont give you more decent comments for actually trying something else instead of doing the normal.. he doesn't want to be normal his trying to do something else! ie. be different not just fitting a LET for easy cheap power! :roll:
lastly - i dont want to start arguing but as ive just read the whole thread its exacly how it comes across!
BIGS your doing a good job keep up with it im looking forward to the updates yet to come :thumb:
DW-Nova
10-11-08, 11:18 PM
Hows the project going mate ? Really looking forward to seeing some more progress, will be a hell of a car once done, best of luck too you !! although what i cant understand is the amount of negative comments on here !! if you cant post something either constructive or positive dont bother imo, why just keep moaning, it's his car his money and it's totally upto him how he wants to do it !!
LEWI007
12-11-08, 08:25 AM
I think it looks good and support bigs for building it the way he wants it, keep us updated bigs
I say stick with is mate and keep the updates coming to:thumb:
I got the same when i come on here too just cause i wasnt going down the normal turbo route
Good luck with it anyway:thumb: :thumb:
Tidied the last few pages.
Can remove other posts if you want
trackdaynova
12-11-08, 11:26 PM
Keep up the good work and updates BIGS :thumb:
FFS girls, I've already had to tidy this up once, now Adam has too... WE dont want to do it again.
Personal feelings aside, if hes doing what hes doing then like it of dont bother posting (as per the sticky thread at the top of the projects forum).
novarobbo
13-11-08, 01:08 PM
wheres my post gone? there was nothing wrong with it :wtf: i was giving the guy credit for trying something different, what is it a mates only forum anyone else has an opinion and something to say and it gets deleted :confused:
FFS
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1010177&postcount=147
Happy now? :roll:
Mate hope all goes well with this project...i like the few trick bits and idea's you have planned indeed!
let_nova
16-06-09, 09:07 PM
is this still on the go?
Very much so yes, just chosen not to update the thread
Come on Bigs, the haters have been warned by the Nazis
maybe one day when its finshed, cant see the point tbh. its enough great/better projects going on to read
I think the haters will have got the message that they are not wanted BIGS. Update the thread for the sakes of people like us :D .
It was the same with Colin's 4x4 project, the know-it-all ****s almost drove him away but he eventually came back and kept the rest updated!
Pwetty Pwease
Well when ive fitted the cage ill update it then
Well when ive fitted the cage ill update it then
:wisewood:
:thumb:
The Simps
17-06-09, 09:44 AM
Well when ive fitted the cage ill update it then
Please do.
As Meritlover once said, "Suck it and see". Thats the reason we know 1300 internals will make your 1200 a 1400cc and various other conversions and modifications people take for granted.
PS, BIGS, empty your PM Box.
dj_wudgey
17-06-09, 10:55 AM
Please do.
i agree mate get a update done!!
t45_ste
17-06-09, 03:00 PM
Go on BIGS :thumb:
Any engine progress?
Unsure if it has been asked but I am assuming that you are stroking it?
What comp ratio are you aiming for?
Any engine progress?
Unsure if it has been asked but I am assuming that you are stroking it?
What comp ratio are you aiming for?
Umm its probley in the tread somewhere dont know. iirc i got a feeling the standard stroke is 94.6 and a bore of 86mm :confused: used to be in my head but its on paper somewhere if i can be assed to look.
But i know im going for a 87.5mm bore to keep abit of metal on the bores for the rebuilds.
Tbh im stuck on the engine wise. I said i was just going to send it to swindon and have them do it. but ive been hearing lot of great things about jre and thinking about taking the bottom end there. as he builds more 2.2 and 2.4 blocks then 2.0 nows and has great results all the time. think the best he has got with a 2.2 block is 330 bhp.
But all i know on the head its 100% coming from swindon. I scrapping the coscast idea after taking to them and going for there own casted head with is developed with much biggers ports to start with.
If you have anything you can recomend me with please do. And please dont start going off about the 300bhp ect. we have already been bitching about that all im doing is seeing what i make at the end then take it from there. if i get 250 , 270 what ever what i want is a great handling car thats got abit of power to back it up
let_nova
17-06-09, 09:45 PM
good on you mate hope it all works.
gona be an animal, but tbh get JRE to do the head to along with the bottom end:thumb:
he can be abit snooty though, as ive been waiting 4weeks for prices for bottom end, head(+2mm is something i wont do, +1mm is all id do headwise due to how much metal is left and at £400 for just seat minimum, it can get costly very quickly if **** a head up)
and how much for steel crank, rods/pistons, so can build up own stroker motor.
ive seen a yellow mk1 escort now in aus that runs a 2.2 and makes 284bhp. john is also working on a 2.5 stroker at the moment:cool:
Well the rods and pistons are costing around £1000 and i can get a steel crank for £675 but what postage and vat on top is i dont know :confused: But then i make up the saving as i can get a dry sump kit for under £500
Yea he is he used to not make engines to just anyone tbh i still think he is like that. But im lucky ive got alot of contacts down my way with my family so its all good.
Didnt know he was on a 2.5 now. thats going to be awsome!
my mates supplies him with heads! and tbh the younger lad i spoke too was really sound, john seems abit old skool tbh.
the price on the dry sump doesnt include the tank, pipework etc? just that can be a few hundred.
btw what crank have you seen for that price? just if it was me farndon or DK, seeing as spending the money on everything else then id look at one of them for sure, especially if going to be using prety high revs
2.5 would be nice too see/hear
Yea john is a proper old skool bloke. he like the old simple tunning not turbos really. Alot of the parts are from someone that used to work for swindon racing back in the day of when they used the cavs. So i trust he stuff he has sold rick draper alot of his engine parts! Yea ive got to buy the pipe work that money is the sump kit bassicly the main part
t45_ste
18-06-09, 04:53 PM
Sounds like its going to be an animal :D Excellent price on the dry sump kit and the crank :thumb:
Angus Closier
18-06-09, 07:20 PM
sounds like an amazing project you have going! don't let people take you down by saying you cant do it or its pointless! a powerful xe in my eyes would be far nicer to drive on the track than a let! hope you get the power you want keep at it!
t45_ste
17-05-10, 08:39 PM
Is this still ongoing :)
Ha ha, you bumped an old thread. Expect a 7 day sin bin!!
I was speaking to BIGS, I think he's starting after his wedding to get back at it so its on a break at the minute.
Yes very much so, the front end is all welded up now. and the wheel brace has now come off lol
But as said i want to get married first then carry on with the rest later
Is 300 bhp actually possible from a XE ?
Mega deep pockets must be needed if it is lol
Is 300 bhp actually possible from a XE ?
Mega deep pockets must be needed if it is lol
T45_ste's one was rr'd at 275bhp iirc/ if i read it write lol
275hp is NOT 300hp though
If you want a 300hp xe I know someone with a JRE all steel engine for 7k
275hp is NOT 300hp though
If you want a 300hp xe I know someone with a JRE all steel engine for 7k
Thats a good price!
Worth remembering that a GENUINE 300hp XE would need a rebuild quite often!
I'm getting the full spec list tomorrow buts its a stroker either on a Farndon or Scat crank, block runs liners etc.. also a alloy block coming up for sale I believe
I'm getting the full spec list tomorrow buts its a stroker either on a Farndon or Scat crank, block runs liners etc.. also a alloy block coming up for sale I believe
*dribble*
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