View Full Version : Reverse head..
right i remember seein it in a thread some were but cant seem to find it..
iirc a company called swindon suming? built a cavvy with a reverse head n tbs n all that..
just thought id get a discussion going, Pros n Cons etc.. and how to...
:D Martin
craig green
11-12-07, 04:53 PM
Oh god!
Cost is immense. You couldnt do it to a Nova as the exhaust manifold will have no room to exit from the rear.
It was done to reel in every last bhp from the engine, think possibly better airflow to the TB's from frontal ram air effect.
If you wanted to do it on a budget, you can put a Peugeot MI16 head onto an XE. (search the net) Its been done.
If you wanted to do it on a budget, you can put a Peugeot MI16 head onto an XE. (search the net) Its been done.
I wouldnt mind doing this myself just for the look of the manifold on them. awsome :D
right i remember seein it in a thread some were but cant seem to find it..
iirc a company called swindon suming? built a cavvy with a reverse head n tbs n all that..
just thought id get a discussion going, Pros n Cons etc.. and how to...
:D Martin
Lol, that'd be swindon race engine who only built the xe btcc cavs! They had a reverse head for the touring cars as far as i can remember, so as cold air entered straight through the grille and into the bodies, and heat dissipated quicker out of the shell. Iirc the performance gains were minimal.
Last time i went to the heritage centre at luton there's one on diplay there, and it's stunning to look at! expect to pay ???? to replicate one.
Lol, that'd be swindon race engine who only built the xe btcc cavs! They had a reverse head for the touring cars as far as i can remember, so as cold air entered straight through the grille and into the bodies, and heat dissipated quicker out of the shell. Iirc the performance gains were minimal.
Last time i went to the heritage centre at luton there's one on diplay there, and it's stunning to look at! expect to pay ???? to replicate one.
also, has a better manifold design, which also mean's the engine could sit much lower for better handling etc etc
also, has a better manifold design, which also mean's the engine could sit much lower for better handling etc etc
Yes thats right,ive got one of these manifolds and cant wait to see what gains it gives
Yes thats right,ive got one of these manifolds and cant wait top see what gains it gives
What car are you intending on fitting this in?
highly unlikly you've got a btcc spec cav manifold, as it would site on the rear of the engine, and probably go though the bulkhead, where gear stick is
You have a reverse head xe exhaust manifold, and you're trying to fit it in a nova? Read craigs second post.
No i havent got the reverse head. Im going on what ste said about the manifolds being better manifold design. Ive got the 1993 system off the cavi that goes over the gearbox if you know what i mean?
No i havent got the reverse head. Im going on what ste said about the manifolds being better manifold design. Ive got the 1993 system off the cavi that goes over the gearbox if you know what i mean?
Ste was talking about the SWINDON SPEC REVERSE HEAD XE MANIFOLD! Re-read the thread ffs. Afaik NO cav exhaust went over the gearbox? They all went under the sump and around the h frame.
oh really oh wait a second what is this ive got :wtf:
http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbumBig.jsp?MemberId=2405205740&PhotoAlbumId=3455637616&PhotoId=5906511715
http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbumBig.jsp?PageNbr=1&MemberId=2405205740&PhotoAlbumId=3455637616&PhotoId=5906512253
http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbumBig.jsp?PageNbr=1&MemberId=2405205740&PhotoAlbumId=3455637616&PhotoId=5906538858
Ok, my bad. Looks like what you have there is some sort of custom exhaust. it appears you don't have a reverse head though, or a reverse head exhaust manifold.
When you say 93 cavvi i presume it's not a standard cav?
No well not alot of people no about this system to be fair to you. it was made for the 1993 cavi for the bttc and was made by swindon racing to get the 300 brake out of the car. It was on John Clelands which im sure you know
yeah ive seen that manifold before..on that cav i was talkin bout
i cant see how thats going to fit in a nova unless it goes though the car, if you want it to work good
by bringing it down and under the car, it will of lost what's good about it, so may aswell just get a normal style under the sump type imo
That's why i was confused as the thread is about the reverse head;) . Good luck fitting that in your nova!
i wasnt planing on doing it in my nova, just wanted some general info on it, for say future reference..
BIGs you could go side exit out the wing lol
Cant see what advantages it will gives, looks cool though! But looks like the radiators gonna have to go somewhere further forward
well ive already test fitted it and its fine. well sort of all ive got to do is take the slam panel out and bolt a alloy tube going across like dar has done with his. but it just clears at the bottom of the bulk head which is very lucky with about a half ince spare
Matt2107
11-12-07, 09:51 PM
That's an awesome looking manifold.
Potential for a great car with that.
Cant see what advantages it will gives, looks cool though! But looks like the radiators gonna have to go somewhere further forward
Nope its going in the boot
that manifold is NOT for a reverse head engine... Its probalby an early incarnation of the engine tuning so they could get the engine lower in the car without naffing the exhaust up.
the "ram air" effect dosent really do anything for the reverse head performance, it all came from the better exhaust routing etc.
rad in the boot.... largley futile but hey what ever floats your boat.
That's an awesome looking manifold.
Potential for a great car with that.
IMHO the heat that monstrosity will give off will render its gains largly futile
IMHO the heat that monstrosity will give off will render its gains largly futile
i cant see it giving god gain imo, the angles the exhaust gasses has to pass through aint that best..
only good thing it will be is if you want to dry sump an xe, and have it sitting lower in the car
the "ram air" effect dosent really do anything for the reverse head performance, it all came from the better exhaust routing etc.
Really?
I assumed that with the head facing the 'right way' so to speak more air would enter into the engine.
How little I know lol So forgivr my ignorance, how did the exhaust give performance gains?
Hmm, reverse head. In a word, utterly pointless.
Swindon made these engines that way purely to squeeze as much power from the engine as possible. Flipping the head probably gave them 10 - 15bhp (in a race, thats a lot of power) Basically around 300bhp. But these babys were running when the BTCC was PROPER and actually had mahoosive budgets, and they could afford to replace the engine every race! They were running the poor old XE at pretty much bursting point, much like F1 engines are today.
To do this to a road car or even a hobby track car is pointless on a massive scale, because a)the only way it will be worth the time effort and money would be to build a 300bhp engine, and b) it will probably last about as long as my last engine did anyway lol
only good thing it will be is if you want to dry sump an xe, and have it sitting lower in the car
You can actually get modified XE sump pans that give you an extra inch+ now, as in a shallower pan so to speak. Mainly for things like XE'd westfield's/locust's etc etc
But a ?110 a pop, are they really worth it!
craig green
14-12-07, 09:09 PM
But a ?110 a pop, are they really worth it!
Small change to a Westfield owner/builder.
If you wanted to do it on a budget, you can put a Peugeot MI16 head onto an XE. (search the net) Its been done.
please put info up for this, cos it sounds ridiculous to me.......
i always thought the real reason for the reverse head design was packaging. they could fit the engine lower & further back . I also thought the cams were redesigned so the inlet ports became the exhaust & vice versa as opposed to turning the head round..
Hmm, I know someone who has a Swindon Race Engine in a Astra Mk3 GSi. Might have to go take a look see which way round the head is lol
craig green
14-12-07, 10:06 PM
i always thought the real reason for the reverse head design was packaging. they could fit the engine lower & further back . I also thought the cams were redesigned so the inlet ports became the exhaust & vice versa as opposed to turning the head round..
The re-engineering to turn the head around was immense. It really isnt within anyones scope tbh to carry it out.
Look at a pic of a reversed Swindon XE motor & you will see that the spark plug cover faces the wrong way etc. Cams are small thing in the grand scheme of things.
^ agreed re- Cams.
The dizzy hole is blanked off, and replicated in the other end IIRC aswell
I knew i had some pictures somewhere, this is a Swindon XE Engine, albeit not a "proper" BTCC item, however it was used in a privaters BTCC car
http://www.richardhawken.com/New%20Website%20Mar%2004/Photos/1st%20visit%204.jpg
http://www.richardhawken.com/New%20Website%20Mar%2004/Photos/1st%20visit1.jpg
http://www.supertouringregister.com/image/618.jpg
those photos /\/\/\ don't show a reversed head design. I think that motor was from the national saloon championship, where they could use a super tourer shell, but a stock based engine.
I found this one on a super touring site, it appears to be reverse head, but the top of the head seems the same way round as a stock one.
I guess they can run them lower as they will be using dry sumps thats why the exhaust would want to be fitted that way.
I found this one on a super touring site, it appears to be reverse head, but the top of the head seems the same way round as a stock one.
Yup, it has to be run the same way around for obvious reasons (the pulley is on the left). Its basically a re engineered head to allow the inlet to fit to the front and the exhaust to the back. In laymens terms all that needs doing then is essentially reverse the cam timing :D Not that its as easy as that lol
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.