brakes?

[greg1.4]

is there uprated brakes that fit under 14" wheels?

i am wanting some drilled/vented discs that are bigger than 1.2 nova brakes and also so they look cooler..

Greg

[tom reid]

Well, I've put Corsa GSI discs and calipers on my Nova, can't get an SR alloy to turn properly...yet!

[greg1.4]

mmm.thats what i am thinking..

what about nova gsi/gte brakes? any better? can i get grooved discs?

[mikey14sr]

Nova gte/gsi are about the same size but vented, should be able to find drilled/grooved versons of them. You will need the calipers though, as they are wider.

[nova ian]

You can fit the Astra GTE/Cav GSI 256mm (2ltr 16v) brakes under 14's

[greg1.4]

yeah, u have to shave the caliper though dont you??

i would like 2.0 16v brakes but not really wanting to do much modding!

[nova ian]

Nope not at all, I used to put cav steelies on mine when it went for MOT and they were 14's never did a thing to the callipers

Ian

Although I never tried the SR GTE 3 spokes over them, so cant say for deffo about these

[Royston]

Got corsa SRi vented discs/calipers (ate I think) on both the Sport and my SR grooved discs on the Sport & cross drilled and grooved for the SR 236mm

[Stuart]

there are some "rare" 256*20mm discs that take the late nova gsi caliper and mount in a larger carrier for a 256*20mm disc.... gives more leverage without using masses of space so 14" steels fit piece of wizz and infact 13" might even fit.

ps drilled discs, NO NO.
Grooved, semi pointless but they arent bad.

pads Mintex 1144's for the road and light track. Ferrodo ds2500/Pagid for track only or uber hardcore road

[Edwin]

The big brakes of a 16V with the small brake pads will fit!! There are 2 types of 3 spoke aloys made in 14inch. only the types witch are 5 or 5,5inch wide will fit with out problems

[Welsh Dan]

I'm using cav TD/corsa gsi 256x20mm brakes. Took about 10 minutes tinkering with a grinder to shave a little off the edge of the caliper to get them to fit under the 5J ET47.5 3 spoke variant. I think with a 5mm or so spacer they'd fit with the minimum of fuss, but you'd need longer wheel bolts to match.

http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/novaload/red.jpg
http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/novaload/red2.jpg

This, however is what happens when you fit a 4.5J one by mistake, then try to drive away from the tyre fitters lol:
http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/novaload/4.5j2.jpg

[Jack]

ps drilled discs, NO NO.
Grooved, semi pointless but they arent bad.
Aye. Drilled is a big no no IMO; forged holes or dimples yes, drilled no.

I'm sure I read a report once about brake disc tests. IIRC discs with a few grooves gave a small improvement in braking over std discs, as did discs with holes. Discs with both, or lots of grooves gave hardly no improvement over those with a few grooves or holes. As drilled discs are more liable to crack than grooved ones, I'd go for the latter!

BTW my ATE calipers fitted under the 14" SRi steelies I had on the saloon...

[Royston]

Aye. Drilled is a big no no IMO; forged holes or dimples yes, drilled no.

I'm sure I read a report once about brake disc tests. IIRC discs with a few grooves gave a small improvement in braking over std discs, as did discs with holes. Discs with both, or lots of grooves gave hardly no improvement over those with a few grooves or holes. As drilled discs are more liable to crack than grooved ones, I'd go for the latter!

BTW my ATE calipers fitted under the 14" SRi steelies I had on the saloon...


I don't believe any mass produced discs that have cross holes are forged into the disc, it would create too many flaws due to material flow, dimples could be forged however, and are, seen some.

I would agree with with marginal improvements with a few grooves/slots, too many holes & slots being detrimental.

I would agree that cross drilled discs could be more liable to fail, depending on the quality of the forging and quality of the machining, we'll find out soon when the SR is finally out;)

If cross drilling cause such problem, they would not be used on high performance vehicles e.g. Porsches, etc (but aren't slotted)

Forgot to mention my rim size earlier : Both my cars run 14" alloys, compomotived and 5J Gte/GSi rims with no issues.

Would certainly like to read/see more on the subject!

[Welsh Dan]

Show me a porsche with 256mm discs on the front :).

[Stuart]

the porcshe is LIKELY to have cast holes though... or at the very least deep dimples to reduce the stresses from machining them.

[tom reid]

Just to be argumentative, I've been drilling standard road and high performance disc's for almost 20 years and have never have a failure, yes , I've had some start to crack, but that is after they have been used very hard in stage rallying, never had cracks form on road car disc's.
The trick is to not have too many holes and not to have the holes too large, 5mm seems to be the best, I have also countersunk the holes in the past and found a marginal improvement in heat reduction.
Also, remember to duct cold air to the hub, just before the driveshaft, as this also reduces hub/brake temps

[adgie]

Yer the 16v Brakes should fit i has some under my steels

[Royston]

Show me a porsche with 256mm discs on the front :).

A little onelol

[Royston]

the porcshe is LIKELY to have cast holes though... or at the very least deep dimples to reduce the stresses from machining them.

Just found this on AP website, seems pretty useful

http://www.apracing.com/car/brakedisc/face.htm


The last Porsche 911 I drove (and only 911lol ) 1997 model has cross drilled front and rear discs

They refer to cross drilling, etc and are machined after being cast, which was a suprise to me!! so I've learned something, after 17 yrs in automotive vehicle development:D

They also state grooved/drilled discs are for road use

[Edwin]

Can some one tell me why people want grooved/drilled dics for normal road use, besides the looks? These type of discs do not improve the overall braking preformance of the car when used on the road! They will eat up normal brakepads, like snow melting in the sun. The "bite" of the brakes can creat serius handling problems in emergency situations. Most people, who install these brakes, do not adept the rearbrakes and create an "over braked" car! Signs are a over steerd nova, at moments that can not use it.

[Royston]

I think you can possibly go too big brake wise i.e. rotor diameter, but it is largely dependant on what you're running engine wise.

If mildly tuning it would seem logical to uprate the fronts with out rear mods, afterall 60% braking is up front.

If going Large the whole system would need to be looked at and balanced master cylinder caliper piston size, etc.

As for my car (the SR) I've stuck with vented 236mm diameter discs, with 4 grooves and 4 sets of cross drillings, probably more asthetics but expect a small improvedment in braking coupled to some high performance pads. I don't expect the pad wear to be a real issue, even with slots.

The 1.3 fully sorted and expected to make 100hp+ (I hope) so need an uprated system, but don't need 300mm discs..

[General Baxter]

235mm Vented disks with 6 pot calipers
?649.99http://www.16vminishop.co.uk/images/pixel_trans.gifhttp://www.16vminishop.co.uk/images/big_brakes.jpg
Tarox 235mm disks, comes with everything needed including hoses , 6 pot calipers . designed to fit under 13 inch wheels. (max dia about 280mm)


how big you want them lol

[Stuart]

I think you can possibly go too big brake wise i.e. rotor diameter, but it is largely dependant on what you're running engine wise.

If mildly tuning it would seem logical to uprate the fronts with out rear mods, afterall 60% braking is up front.

If going Large the whole system would need to be looked at and balanced master cylinder caliper piston size, etc.

As for my car (the SR) I've stuck with vented 236mm diameter discs, with 4 grooves and 4 sets of cross drillings, probably more asthetics but expect a small improvedment in braking coupled to some high performance pads. I don't expect the pad wear to be a real issue, even with slots.

The 1.3 fully sorted and expected to make 100hp+ (I hope) so need an uprated system, but don't need 300mm discs..



no offence but balllocks.
Power and braking are largely seperate from each other (obv you dont want a veryron running 236mm solid discs)
The braking capacity of a car is down to how much drive train its got to slow down... Ie a RWD car needs discs at the back (or big drums) to slow down the shafts, diff, huge prop and gearbox. Also depends on how much grip the tyres can give, how many times in rapid sucession the brakes are applied, the heat, the weight of the car and so on.

a 300bhp nova wouldnt explicitly need more braking capacity than a valver braked 1.0 nova as the brakes can lock the wheels up on both cars.....

If say you rallied, you would need max braking from the off and need to take lots of heat as the brakes are used HARD and frequently. Where as say circuit car would need huge discs to get the leverage and heat into the pads but not nessecaraly such hardcore pads as the rally car as there is more tiem between corners and so on.

the VX/Elise/Exige all use the same 288mm*24mm discs (well ok lotus items are 4 stud) using the same AP 2 pots up front and brembo rear single pots. Even in racing they only need a change of pad and occasionally a change of disc type (not size). This goes for the low power elises upto the silly 300bhp audi engined ones.

[Royston]

no offence but balllocks.
Power and braking are largely seperate from each other (obv you dont want a veryron running 236mm solid discs)
The braking capacity of a car is down to how much drive train its got to slow down... Ie a RWD car needs discs at the back (or big drums) to slow down the shafts, diff, huge prop and gearbox. Also depends on how much grip the tyres can give, how many times in rapid sucession the brakes are applied, the heat, the weight of the car and so on.

a 300bhp nova wouldnt explicitly need more braking capacity than a valver braked 1.0 nova as the brakes can lock the wheels up on both cars.....

If say you rallied, you would need max braking from the off and need to take lots of heat as the brakes are used HARD and frequently. Where as say circuit car would need huge discs to get the leverage and heat into the pads but not nessecaraly such hardcore pads as the rally car as there is more tiem between corners and so on.

the VX/Elise/Exige all use the same 288mm*24mm discs (well ok lotus items are 4 stud) using the same AP 2 pots up front and brembo rear single pots. Even in racing they only need a change of pad and occasionally a change of disc type (not size). This goes for the low power elises upto the silly 300bhp audi engined ones.


I was probably generalising too much, in response to Edwin's comment, but I was trying to say it was horses for courses.

You are correct in essence regarding Power/braking.

The braking system should suit the intended application of the vehicle as you correctly pointed out.

You can fit a 300mm race braking system to a 1.0 nova, and it'll stop quick, maybe (even better than a 2.0 turbo nova) but would never reach 3 figure speeds to use the full capability(on the track of course;) ), where as a 300hp turbo nova would. more over:eek:

It's like fitting a full F1 racing car braking system to a 2CV - pretty pointless, well to me any way and in this instance I would say it was was too much


but would comment on the following though in response


The Veyron is a purpose built flying machine and was designed with a braking system to suit from the outset.

Nova's were never designed to have the HP that some nova's run 300hp+ and therefore had a range of brakes to cover 1.0's and above in the vehicle range.

VX/Elise/Exige again were designed from the outset as a Sports car/racing application, and had a braking system developed with high power in mind, and therefore don't need serious modifications, and by keeping the system std across the range keeps cost down i.e. built to a cost - a minimum one.

No one in their right minds would run a high output nova on std 236mm solid discs, would they?lol

No offence taken:thumb:

[General Baxter]

No one in their right minds would run a high output nova on std 236mm solid discs, would they?lol


212bhp here :thumb: lol

[Stuart]

No one in their right minds would run a high output nova on std 236mm solid discs, would they?lol


dont ever ever ever say something like that on a forum baxter frequents lol (as he proved in the post above)



agreed on the fit an overkill brake system to ALL variants as its cheaper route :)
clearly you have automotive production knowledge.... who where and so on :)

[tom reid]

Well, I've put Corsa GSI discs and calipers on my Nova, can't get an SR alloy to turn properly...yet!

Well, they do turn now, albeit only just, got 1/2mm clearance between wheel and caliper, a bit more work with the grinder and flap disc should see 1mm
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2417/2081293878_bac9e6bf95.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2080507455_1e6e26ca34_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16764489@N05/2080507455/)

[Timmy]

So Guys drilling disk is done to shed heat from the disk and perent glazing
same thing a vented disk's but can lead to crasking as weakins the disk.
groveing is done to remove the glazing from the pad and give a better braking surface, can wear pads faster.
so whats the difference in pads? i know on a bike hard pad dont work as well but wear less and sort pad work a lot better but dont last as long. wear as sinted do both work well and dont wear donw as fast.

[Adam]

Different compound/heat ranges