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View Full Version : Most powerful n/a 1.6 8v



5T1G
09-11-07, 04:40 PM
Come on cookies, show us your 8v's spec's n all. Need something to aim for.

Mine supposeidly

Lightened and balanced crankshaft, con rods and flywheel.
Solid Harry Hockley Group A engine mounts.
Standard engine block, oil pump and sump.
Ex GM Motorsport group a cross-drilled camshaft with shimmed hydraulic lifters.
Prodrive ported & flow benched cylinder head.
Modified engine breather system with pick up points from head and engine block with extra breather
point added to cam cover, 1 litre oil catch tank.
Kent Cams aluminium vernier timing belt pulley and belt.
Modified alternator bracket and mount. (Nova sport spec)
Omex Speed System rev limiter and shift light.
Standard alternator, starter motor, distributor and coil.
Twin 40mm Weber DCOE Carburettors, twin cable throttle linkage, Rally Design chrome ram pipes
with RamAir foam filters. (Nova Sport original carbs, right and left handed)
Bowyer Developments inlet manifold matched to cylinder head, with vacuum take offs to brake servo.
Facet silver competition fuel pump, XR2i fuel filter and Filter King fuel pressure regulator.
4 into 1 Works type exhaust manifold, lagged with heat absorbing wrap.
Modified 2 ? inch Ashley mild steel exhaust system

I reckon it's about 120-130bhp, it's down on power though

5T1G
09-11-07, 04:42 PM
i wanna hit somewhere between 160-180bhp, want to give the redtop and let boys a run for their money.

And if i lose, meh! it's just a 1.6 lol:thumb:

General Baxter
09-11-07, 04:44 PM
ask dan lol

5T1G
09-11-07, 04:47 PM
Hit me at 40mph and theres an 80% chance I'll die. Hit me at 30mph and theres an 80% chance I'll live. However, if I stopped playing in the middle of the road I probably wouldn't get hit at all.

Hit me at 100 and theres 99.9% chance i'll die

General Baxter
09-11-07, 04:48 PM
well stop playing in the road then lol

back on topic lol

Adam
09-11-07, 04:51 PM
140ish hp is about the norm for 1650cc, 8v's.

You can get more tho with the standard inlet manifold ;)

Jim
09-11-07, 05:00 PM
140ish hp is about the norm for 1650cc, 8v's.

You can get more tho with the standard inlet manifold ;)
You can get more than 140 from a 1.6 8v ;)

craig green
09-11-07, 05:01 PM
Surely a std distributer isnt much use?

Btw a 1600 with 200bhp probably wouldnt be any quicker than a 150bhp 2.0XE. I'm not puttiung it down in any way, but the highly tuned 1600 will have a peaky, high revs output. The 2.0 will have a broader spread of torque & thus be as quick, if not quicker.

Adam
09-11-07, 05:06 PM
You can get more than 140 from a 1.6 8v ;)
Indeed.
But mappable fueling and ignition is the better option :)

Stig-Are you using a std 1600 gte distributor?

Jim
09-11-07, 05:08 PM
Lets not turn this into ANOTHER big block v's small block debate please.

My spec:

Shot peened and de-seamed Con-rods
Head and block skimmed to increase compression ratio to around 11-1
Block has been re-bored to 1650cc
Crankshaft has been reground
B+ head with additional porting and polishing
Piper A13BP300H cam
Webber twin 40 carburettors with 32mm chokes
NGK Sparkplugs
Magnecor leads
Magnex 4-2-1 manifold with heat wrap
Custom made 2" centre exit exhaust
F13 gearbox with 4.53 final drive
Quaife ATB Diff

I think that's all of it.

Adam
09-11-07, 05:11 PM
Do you know what torque that made Jim?
Suprising that you have 32mm chokes, would of thought they would of been larger.

5T1G
09-11-07, 05:26 PM
Yes, it looks standard. Where can i get an uprated one from, also need a decent coil(looks orginal and showing 20years worth of age).

I think a small block Vs big block debate (although not the intention of this thread) would be good.

As Craig mentioned the benifts of the big block there of which there are probably more than the small block. what benifits does a small block have over a larger one.

Weight obivously
originality
generally speaking, better handling??
any more?

Jim
09-11-07, 05:47 PM
Do you know what torque that made Jim?
Suprising that you have 32mm chokes, would of thought they would of been larger.
132lb/ft

We tried all types of chokes and found the 32's gave the smoothest power delivery. If I remember correctly, the 30's were to restrictive and the 34's upset the mixture too much. This was a number of years ago at an old school tuners, so perhaps a more modern company could get better results using 34mm chokes. I might look into this now that you've mentioned it, lol.

5TIG, there have been plenty of debates, scroll through the forum.

Mike
09-11-07, 05:49 PM
The spec of mine is erm, not even built yet. But it'll hit geustimate of 125bhp ATF without carbs or a turbo. Altho i do have a T2 conversion kit waiting for me to pick up when ive got the cash lol

Adam
09-11-07, 05:54 PM
Yes, it looks standard. Where can i get an uprated one from, also need a decent coil(looks orginal and showing 20years worth of age).

Just looked at some old pics of yours, and its a 1200/1300 dizzy/coil you have.
You dont really need an "uprated" one.


132lb/ft

We tried all types of chokes and found the 32's gave the smoothest power delivery. If I remember correctly, the 30's were to restrictive and the 34's upset the mixture too much. This was a number of years ago at an old school tuners, so perhaps a more modern company could get better results using 34mm chokes. I might look into this now that you've mentioned it, lol.

5TIG, there have been plenty of debates, scroll through the forum.
Quite a good torque figure

Fair enough on the chokes, if thats what worked best.

Dan
09-11-07, 06:12 PM
i dont have the most powerful when it comes to the highest figure. The power delivery of mine has helped it to be one of or the quickest on here over the last few years be it proven on the qtr or on track (yes i know that sounds gay :O but i cant think of any other way to word it)

It was always built to be grunty and not a revver which i managed. I went different routes to make the car faster rather than figures, although some of what i did originally is just common place nowadays anyway.

Dar
09-11-07, 06:29 PM
In a nutshell Dan's car has good torque throughout the rev range. So when he puts his foot down it just starts to pull again (whatever revs). Plus it handles very well so he dosen't need to use the brake pedal muchlol

Also you have to have the right combination of power and handling and his car is spot on in that respect.

adam c
09-11-07, 06:36 PM
what is the spec of your car dan?

Stuart
09-11-07, 06:43 PM
what power was big Russ's on 48's and mappable ign. And he went back to Bowyer and asked for more power at which point he was laughed at....

Dan
09-11-07, 06:50 PM
russ's was upto 162 i think, there is a level that is easily achieved (within reason) and to get where russ was is the expensive bit for little bits at a time

dhdev (Oli)
09-11-07, 06:53 PM
what power was big Russ's on 48's and mappable ign. And he went back to Bowyer and asked for more power at which point he was laughed at....

Big Russ was running a 1400 16v, putting out around 175bhp.

Dan
09-11-07, 06:54 PM
heres the basic spec of mine.....

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/viewfeaturecar.php?ref=2011

obviously its a small bit more involved than just the parts fitted but that gives an idea

Dan
09-11-07, 06:55 PM
the engine before that oli ;) back in ya box ;) lol lol lol

dhdev (Oli)
09-11-07, 06:58 PM
back in ya box

lol lol lol lol lol I didn't realise that phrase was common usage, me and my mates say it all the time lol lol

Ash
09-11-07, 07:44 PM
I think a small block Vs big block debate (although not the intention of this thread) would be good.


http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64748

theres probably more around as well.

Nick
10-11-07, 03:16 PM
Mine is..

Shotpeened Rods with ARP Bolts.
Standard Block that's been honed.
Everything fresh (Probably isn't now)
Kent AST 2 Camshaft.
Kent Hydraulic Lifters / Valve Springs.
Ported and Polished Head done @ RSM motorsport.
Mangoletsi Inlet
Dellorto DHLA 40's
Ashley 4-1 Manifold + System.

It's badly setup (thanks to Protec) And it's only making around 120hp with Torque to Match !

James P
10-11-07, 04:20 PM
all the time and effort u guy's put into making small block engines faster. when you can spend less money and get more power with big blocks, then spend all the money on the big block and have a ten times faster car. ???

Nick
10-11-07, 04:43 PM
Havn't you read anything dan's said ?

It's not all about a figure. His car is very fast - yet it doesn't have an amazing amount of power

Dan
10-11-07, 04:59 PM
its ok nick, not everyone has seen or driven the car to understand the basic laws it was built to, to them 140bhp is nothing which tbh is understandable :thumb:.

Also a note to everyone else, dont take the bait ,its not worth it and will only result in the normal actions from ourselves ;)

womble sri
10-11-07, 05:02 PM
a god tune makes all the diferenece rather than any old minkey making it run. mine made 125bhp which i was happy with and with an hour more of fetling mine made 134 bhp the guy is the same guy that set up jims and i ran the same cam etc he also said the fine tuning of the vernier was critical to the oeak power but did say i would be sacfrificing lower down power. he is excelent and i highly recomend him (peter baldwin)

Markyc
11-11-07, 11:01 AM
sorry not not a nova but still a 1.6 my m8s jst picked up a civic type R (ek9)

185bhp as standard now thats a mean feet out of a 1.6!
went out in in lst nite and lets say if you have never been out in a proper v-tec your missing out!! N im ashamed to stay this but its the only car that i've been in that would out handle my nova!! only down side he paid 7k!!

he's what they look like for you who don't no n yer them red recaro's are fookin comfortable!! lol

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/markyc66/civic-typer_----.jpg

Adam
11-11-07, 06:50 PM
Nice cars/\
One problem, v-tec's are like bike engine's.
Rev all day, but make fook all torque.
See Craig Greens sig lol

CP
11-11-07, 09:52 PM
Btw a 1600 with 200bhp probably wouldnt be any quicker than a 150bhp 2.0XE. I'm not puttiung it down in any way, but the highly tuned 1600 will have a peaky, high revs output. The 2.0 will have a broader spread of torque & thus be as quick, if not quicker.

are you sure:confused:

think i know which one i'd be in - 50hp is a lot

Nick
11-11-07, 09:59 PM
Nice cars/\
One problem, v-tec's are like bike engine's.
Rev all day, but make fook all torque.
See Craig Greens sig lol
I have to agree with you there...

They sound great on paper, 180hp ! Awesome.

But when you actually go in one.... they're not quite what they are cut up to be. For instance, you have to rev the **** off them (i.e On Tec) to actually get them to go anywhere. So instantly, you're faced with the problem of

A - Looking like a complete **** going everywhere at 7k+.
B - Having a poor amount of torque
C - Not having a terribly great low-end or Mid-range, Something which is important and often overlooked !
D -They Burn oil like no tommorow

Personally, i'd never have one. As a whole (Low-end, Throttle Response, Mid-Range, Top-End.. Power delivery e.t.c), i think my 1600 8v feels much much nicer

novaco
11-11-07, 10:14 PM
just read this entire thread...

im at the stage in my project where i need to decide what to run...always wanted to stay 8v..however with three mates running valvers im turning more towards big blocks..

however reading dan/jims responses... im stick with the small block..

cheers lads...and be prepared for questions when it comes to the overhaul lol

Lee
11-11-07, 10:16 PM
are you sure:confused:

think i know which one i'd be in - 50hp is a lot

Indeedy. The only difference between a 150 bhp smallblock and a 150bhp big block is the fact the smallblock cost an arm and a leg and the big block probably cost 200 quid, coupled to the fact the smallblock will be stressed in relation to the bigblock making standard power.

Im a big BIG fan of dans car, mainly as I was allowed to drive it in anger and actually appreciate it properly, rather than just watching it or being a passenger. I came to the conclusion that i loved it. BUT, it didnt make me think I wanted one.

Dans car is probably one of the best small block track nova's on the scene for many different reasons, and mine is still far from the best it can be, and if im completely honest, id still rather be in mine.

Martin
11-11-07, 10:16 PM
I have to agree with you there...

They sound great on paper, 180hp ! Awesome.

But when you actually go in one.... they're not quite what they are cut up to be. For instance, you have to rev the **** off them (i.e On Tec) to actually get them to go anywhere. So instantly, you're faced with the problem of

A - Looking like a complete **** going everywhere at 7k+.
B - Having a poor amount of torque
C - Not having a terribly great low-end or Mid-range, Something which is important and often overlooked !
D -They Burn oil like no tommorow

Personally, i'd never have one. As a whole (Low-end, Throttle Response, Mid-Range, Top-End.. Power delivery e.t.c), i think my 1600 8v feels much much nicer

Agreed, my mates CRX 1.6 16v, was much faster then his astra 1.6 8v as a whole but it never realy performed aswell.. its just the noise that makes them "feel" fast imo

craig green
12-11-07, 09:45 AM
are you sure:confused:

think i know which one i'd be in - 50hp is a lot

Bit of a generalisation tbh. The fact is, a peaky highly tuned (lets say 170bhp this time) smallblock 8v will spend longer off cam trying to keep up with a 150bhp 2.0 engine & thus the torquier, gruntier engine will be faster on the road/track.

I would happily bet that comparing 2 rolling road graphs for the engines. The 2.0 XE would have a greater area under the curve which everyone knows, is faster on the road.

peester
12-11-07, 09:59 AM
amen brother

Ben
12-11-07, 10:04 AM
Surely a std distributer isnt much use?

Btw a 1600 with 200bhp probably wouldnt be any quicker than a 150bhp 2.0XE. I'm not puttiung it down in any way, but the highly tuned 1600 will have a peaky, high revs output. The 2.0 will have a broader spread of torque & thus be as quick, if not quicker.

Just my point, having built/owned enough XE Nova's.

Dans 140ish bhp 1.6 8v is much pokier and gruntier than any standard XE ive ever been in.

craig green
12-11-07, 10:07 AM
Its horses for courses. I'm a smallblock die hard fan, but I cant imagine if you put a XE in Dans car, it would be slower. (in a straight line)

5T1G
12-11-07, 01:11 PM
Yes, i feel a test coming on.

Nick
12-11-07, 01:51 PM
But the XE is a standard engine, developed for the road - to be driveable and deliver decent economy.

Dan's engine is tuned and (probably) set-up in a way to deliver the best performance all throughout the rev-range.... It's also going to be lighter, so of course it's going to be better than a ropey standard XE !

I know for a fact that when people go in mine, they're massivley impressed by how it just instantly picks up and goes right up to 6.8k.. then a gear change... and it just goes again - When in their mind they've been comparing it to a VTS/106 GTi which has a similar "figure" - Yet as a standard car they're not quite as relentless.

After being in Dar's car, and also lee's (i know he's not got quite a good setup) you can't deny that a well-setup XE can perform on a higher level - but from the impression i got from Dar, it takes quite a bit of time and fine tuning to sort it all out.

But for me, the 1.6 8v is a safe bet - Great performance, and you can keep the handleing as good as it's going to get. Although, it's great to see alot more 1.6 16v's around now , Oli's car is an indicator of just how well a smallblock 16v can be.

Stuart
12-11-07, 01:54 PM
thought we were trying to avoid a dick waving contest with big and small blocks lol

Ben
12-11-07, 03:44 PM
I own a 2001 Saxo VTS and agree that that pulls better to 60-70mph than either a standard xe or a tuned 8v but thats not what was said.

Also a tuned xe will deliver as well as a tuned 8v if they are built to the same standard but again the comparison was between a standard xe and a tuned 8v,