View Full Version : Track Car on a budget..?
Right prolly been asked a few times..
but... i have/will have a spare nova shell thats in pretty good nick only needing a front pannel.
that will probs go to the scrappers if i dont decide to do this,
i want some help deciding what components i should use and not use and what engine to go for..
theres a budget of about 1500-1800? i dont want anything major just abit of fun, must be road legal aswell..
cheers martin
valver it up, reliable 150ish bhp
suspension?
what decent spring& shocks setup ups are there for novas not botherd about it been overly low.. just want it to handle.. its got ATE front brakes already
paul james
03-11-07, 08:05 PM
1.6 8v would be the cheapest way to go, money saved on 2.0 engine conversion could be spent on quality suspension, tyres, rollcage, light weight seats etc.
Strip everything out, dash and all, and with the power to weight on your side and a decent handling and brakes set up you can be competitive without massive bhp.
i was thinking about 1.6 16v realy.. but i could do 8v too
Looking at toyo R888s for tyres iirc there Road legal?
it all boils down to how useful you are and how good your mates are to you. Remember i built my whole shell including purchase for under 500 quid, that just leaves susp, engine, diff, tyres and cage.
i can weld, few mates are mechanics and got a good mate whos a painter
Dan 130
03-11-07, 09:31 PM
^^^ what more do you need lol if your budget is as stated then it can easily be done imo
i was thinking about 1.6 16v realy.. but i could do 8v too
Looking at toyo R888s for tyres iirc there Road legal? I wouldnt go for a 1600 16v in std form tbh. 8v is cheaper to tune, easier to repair, and lighter.
Put money into suspension, brakes and tyres.
I wouldnt go for a 1600 16v in std form tbh. 8v is cheaper to tune, easier to repair, and lighter.
Put money into suspension, brakes and tyres.
yeah, my mate has a cam and a set of 40s(my oldones) they he mite be selling soon so 8v sounds like the plan can get a decent 8v lump for ?60 of a mate(Hendrix) just had head rebuilt:thumb:
gettin a set of 15" astra sport wheels for ?15 lol they just need tyres..
FAO all you track day peeps, what rubber do you use? must be road legal tyres aswell
somebody mentioned bilstein yellows to be last nite any gen?:thumb:
Martin
peester
04-11-07, 09:25 AM
yeah, my mate has a cam and a set of 40s(my oldones) they he mite be selling soon so 8v sounds like the plan can get a decent 8v lump for ?60 of a mate(Hendrix) just had head rebuilt:thumb:
gettin a set of 15" astra sport wheels for ?15 lol they just need tyres..
FAO all you track day peeps, what rubber do you use? must be road legal tyres aswell
somebody mentioned bilstein yellows to be last nite any gen?:thumb:
Martin
answered your own question there then dude,..
Tyres i guess its ye ol' Toyo 888's - see oli hewetts car (PNG november feature) about those..
Billy yellows are dear- so if on a budget like you say; may need to wait for a good used set to come up; and hope to get them at a nice low price. getit?
Yeah, nice one cheers mate..
Right next.. ripping out the inside, what needs to stay for MOT?
and what dont i need at all?
how much are poly windows?
loggyboy
04-11-07, 01:42 PM
If i had ?1800 id spend it like this:
Engine, brakes
XE (Donor car ?200-400, possibly less after unused parts sold off donor)
Possible upgrade to 284/8mm callipers ?50
New drilled discs and perfmorance pads for either brakes ?100-150
Cage and Seam welding of entire shell
Cage ?300
(id do welding it myself for cost of about ?50 wire/gas, but allow for ?200-300 if getting it done)
Wheels and tyres
15 inches from donor car, (possible upgrade ?200)
Toyo R888s ?300
Suspension
Either fixed springs with adj shocks (?300) (maybe less 2nd hand)
Or
Coilovers ?500 (maybe less 2nd hand)
Based on ?200 engine, calipers, 100 for brake parts, 300 for cage, 50 welding, 200 Wheels, 300 tyres, 500 coilys, that comes to ?1700
BAR GAIN
^^ putting it like that.. sounds DAMN good
Indeed.
Xe is the best option unless your in the "want to be different club" lol
Fixed height blistein yellows are cool, with the thick piston dampers.
Indeed.
Xe is the best option unless your in the "want to be different club" lol
i'm past wanting to be diferent, i just wanna have fun and give it loads of abuse round a track:thumb:
Id choose 20xe then EVERYDAY
Based on ?200 engine, calipers, 100 for brake parts, 300 for cage, 50 welding, 200 Wheels, 300 tyres, 500 coilys, that comes to ?1700
BAR GAIN
then mount kit, drive shafts, cv's, service bit's like cam belt kit, oil filter etc etc
keep the donor car wheels save that ?200 and spend thjat on mounts shafts cambelt andservice. Go for billy yellow's theyre about ?300ish so that saves another ?200.
then mount kit, drive shafts, cv's, service bit's like cam belt kit, oil filter etc etc
with that id only be payin for the parts, and id probs get it cheaper anyway and my mate will fit it all if i buy him a kfc lol
lol he'l helpme owt with anything aslong as he gets a drive.. and if he breaks it.. he'l fix it haha
Then all you need to think about is, paying out for track days (its not loads, but its still money) repair costs, insurance for said car (as you want it road legal, possible dead engines etc etc etc
Yes, indeed you could build one for next to not much, but dont forget the "hidden" costs so to speak ;)
craig green
05-11-07, 01:58 PM
Surprised you needed to ask tbh.
All of that is everyday banter on here. You are a regular poster after all.
IMO opinion you need to follow through with one of your projects/big ideas.
novarobbo
06-11-07, 01:37 AM
martin your know XE isn't the way.. look at my old corsa for example! blown 2 engines up in just under 3 weeks.. the second engine lasted 4 days!! lol XE's and reliable dont go IMO thats why ive now gone 8v with the nova! go xe if you like working on your car every other day!
craig green
06-11-07, 09:56 AM
XE's can be reliable, if you buy them from unknown sources for ?100 what do you expect?
They are old now however. Most are past there best.
TBH I'd stick with a 1600 and spend the money on making it handle better.
I'd also prefer to buy suspension brand new but that's just me being anal.
Plus it's cheaper and easier than finding, rebuilding/servicing an XE and changing driveshafts, CV's etc. Leaves you more money to use for track days (which are what at least a ton for the day??)
I'd go for a 1600 8V on twin 40's as you said you've got the option of buying them back. Decent filter/zorst maybe even a cam if funds allow who knows. Only thing I don't know is do you need anything for the bottom end just to protect it a bit more with constant high revs. I.E APR bolts with the XE.
Keep the drums and go for decent 256 discs and Mintex pads (1155 was the choice I think??) A set of 15's some Toyos and you're nearly there.
Coilovers (Gaz/AVO) or if not Billies, decent poundage springs, check all things work track rod ends etc etc on the car and renew where necessary.
You'll need overalls, helmet, seat(s) if you want to carry passengers.
Bound to be something I've forgotten
Make it happen :thumb:
Gto somebuckets at amtes waitin for me.. got a helmet from my biking days
i think the bottom end should be fine with some ARP's only thing with 40s is getin them setup.. but the budget is just to build the car... not for funding track days etc..
craig green
06-11-07, 05:14 PM
TBH I'd stick with a 1600 and spend the money on making it handle better.
I'd also prefer to buy suspension brand new but that's just me being anal.
Plus it's cheaper and easier than finding, rebuilding/servicing an XE and changing driveshafts, CV's etc. Leaves you more money to use for track days (which are what at least a ton for the day??)
I'd go for a 1600 8V on twin 40's as you said you've got the option of buying them back. Decent filter/zorst maybe even a cam if funds allow who knows. Only thing I don't know is do you need anything for the bottom end just to protect it a bit more with constant high revs. I.E APR bolts with the XE.
Keep the drums and go for decent 256 discs and Mintex pads (1155 was the choice I think??) A set of 15's some Toyos and you're nearly there.
Coilovers (Gaz/AVO) or if not Billies, decent poundage springs, check all things work track rod ends etc etc on the car and renew where necessary.
Totally agree on the above.
You could even have a lot of fun in something standard. Whats the point in chucking loadsa money at building a track toy when you might not get full useage from it.
An SR or GTE with valver brakes & lowering springs would be a hoot & wouldnt require lots of further money throwing at it or trawling the net for all the bits to build it.
Buy it! Rag it! Bin it!
paul james
06-11-07, 05:20 PM
Depends what you want to achieve really. Do you want to be the fastest car on the track, have the best straight line speed, then a 2.0 is the way to go. But if you just want to enjoy yourself and aren't all that concerned about spending the whole time overtaking everyone else then a standard 1.6 will do the job. Get the suspension and tyres right, as well as a diet on the interior side, and your not likely to be embaressed by your performance on any track with a decent amount of corners in it.
martin your know XE isn't the way.. look at my old corsa for example! blown 2 engines up in just under 3 weeks.. the second engine lasted 4 days!! lol XE's and reliable dont go IMO thats why ive now gone 8v with the nova! go xe if you like working on your car every other day! Your unlucky then or buy fooked engines. Lol
Ive rarely known a xe go wrong, even highly tuned on tb's, nitrous'd etc etc.
For a cheap track car, you cant beat Craigs comment- Buy it! Rag it! Bin it!
Lol
Your unlucky then or buy fooked engines. Lol
Ive rarely known a xe go wrong, even highly tuned on tb's, nitrous'd etc etc.
every1 thats i know from round here whos bought a corsa/nova with an xe in has gone pop lol
novarobbo
07-11-07, 01:06 AM
exacly martin.. everyone i know of whos had one hasn't lasted at all!! every redtop i know of has died.. cant see it as everyone having bad look really.. my first engine wasn't bad really just the oil pump went and my driving it home buggered all the bottom end bearings and the crank might of needed a re-grind so that was my fault really but the second engine! 4 days! lol.. revving to 8k ish maybe wasn't helping though..
C20Xe not reliable! You have to be joking! Mind you any engine will be unreliable if you give it full beans from cold and then over rev it.
That aside, I say go for anything 1.6 or lower then spend all the money you have saved on other bits:thumb: or beer. I am serious here as well. Putting in a bigger engine will cost more and that money could be better spent. Or you could do the shell prep first and then see if you have the money to put a C20XE in. Oh hang on they are unreliable, best put in one of those ultra reliable 1.6 16v engines I don't think I have ever heard of one of those blowing uplol
Get two sets of wheels and put R888's or A048's on one set and F1's on the other. If you don't have two sets of wheels then go for the F1's first.
Things I would buy
1) Coilovers
2) Cage
3) Bucket seats
4) Harnesses
5) Helmet
6) Poly Bushes
7) A LSD IF you can afford it at all. Well worth having though!
Things I wouldn't buy just yet since your on a budget
1) Polycarb windows
2) Fibreglass panels
3) Overalls
4) Big expensive Brakes (The ATE's with decent pads and discs are fine)
5) Internal fuel & brakes lines
Things I would do
1) Cut the section out of the chassie leg for a big block conversion. You will want more power at some point and doing this now will save you doing it later.
2) Stitch weld the engine bay
3) Tag in the cage to the A&B pillars
4) Put in decent seat mounts
5) Strip the car to the bare bones. Just look at most of the track cars for what you need to keep. i.e. Dash & Heaters
If you go on to the Banzaiundersteer site, look at Chris's white GSI for a decent track car that won't cost the earth to build. I have mentioned a few things above that his car dosen't currently have, that would make his car better. Checkout the video of it going around Castle Combe, it's quick.
Novalicious, people are making an effort to type like human beings so please return the favour.
The only XE ive known to dislike life is Lees lol, but I think that was due to patching up a dying engine anyway.
As said they are a MINIMUM of 10 years old now.... thats a bloody long time for an engine to have lasted and probably been driven hard all its life.
imho a 1.6 8v with a megasquirt ecu, an AST2 cam and possibly some other bits, with a well sorted shell will see you having a riot on track.
exacly martin.. everyone i know of whos had one hasn't lasted at all!! every redtop i know of has died.. cant see it as everyone having bad look really.. my first engine wasn't bad really just the oil pump went and my driving it home buggered all the bottom end bearings and the crank might of needed a re-grind so that was my fault really but the second engine! 4 days! lol.. revving to 8k ish maybe wasn't helping though.. FPMSL
So you drive home with a shagged oil pump, and then rev the new engine to 8k with im assuming standard internals?
And then blame the engine? lollol
Novalicious, people are making an effort to type like human beings so please return the favour.
What the thunk?
cheers for the replys guys
Thats what you typed :p Lol
If you are going on track on a budget here's what I would suggest:
1. Spend some petrol money and go have a look at Dans car. Cant do better than that for the money really.
2. Get a roll cage and weld it in. Get a proper seat plus 5 point harness. If you hit something hard they are the only sort that will hold you properly in place ( you slide out under the 4 pointers and brake your ankles etc on the pedals ) Safety first!
3. Get rid of as much weight as possible but make sure you fit a rev counter,oil pressure, water temp and fuel gauges if you are ripping the dash out
4. Stitch weld engine bay + all main suspension points and throughout the cabin to at least the rear arches. Make sure sills etc and all structural stuff is sound. Fit strengthening plates if using an XE or got over 120hp?
5. Fit poly bushes alround
6. Lower the front tie bar mounts if poss.
7. Uprate springs and struts
8. Uprate brakes - raid the breakers and fit performance pads that'll run hot without fading
9. Get the best tyres you can afford - at least track day orientated tyres or even slicks. You get what you pay for. 15" rim size is best compromise. If you get other sizes tyre availability and costs become a problem
10..... then start to worry about changing/modding engines, fitting LSD's etc etc.
You are liable to have to pay around ?175 -230 for each trackday at most main circuits - open pit lane ones are the best- but you can halve the cost by sharing with a mate. If you drive the car to the circuit and have a full day you could spend around ?75 on fuel and then there is likely to be some oil and brake pads and other incidental costs. Your tyres will probably get rinsed in a couple of track days I'm afraid if you are anything like on the limit in the corners and driving a full day.
Although its abit off topic my bro has decided to go track daying and just bought half stakes in an ex-race car (BMW out of the Kumho challenge series)It was advertised for ?3500 and they got it for ?2500. Its got all the right goodies, been a class winner, is reliable & would have probably cost 2 -3 times what the bloke was asking for it. It's set-up & ready to go and all he needs to do is sort replacement tyres which he will prolly get as cast offs from the racing series. Cant go wrong really
novarobbo
08-11-07, 01:01 AM
FPMSL
So you drive home with a shagged oil pump, and then rev the new engine to 8k with im assuming standard internals?
And then blame the engine? lollol
as i said the first engine was my fault driving it home with a funked oil pump! :wtf:
but the second engine had; ARP rod bolts, ARP head stud kit.. standard internals should take that iirc!
no the rods will die at those revs... plus how the hell did you get there as even a "remap/superchip" limts before that... anyway not for this thread :p
novarobbo
08-11-07, 04:41 PM
well my rods was fine as were the pistons! just the bottom end bearings went and it had regular services! :confused: and it was chipped and the calibra it came out of had aftermarket rev counter and it used to rev to just under 8k and in my corsa it used to rev for a while after the 7k mark on the corsa clocks!
anyway martin surely decent rubber and suspension should be on the list somewhere as its rubber and suspension thats going to keeps your car on the track aswell as experience of driving on a track ;)
let me know when i can come up and have a nosey at your car to see what i can find and what i want/need, let me know when its ready for a re-spray too :thumb:
The only XE ive known to dislike life is Lees lol, but I think that was due to patching up a dying engine anyway.
Indeed.
TBH i think it was a credit to the XE that it held out a lap. Im not sure how many engines will last that long with a fecking oval crank journal ffs!!
The first engine went south due to the guy who originally built my engine being a retard, and marking each rod with scored lines 1 2 3 and 4. Bellend!
Oh, and rev any vauxhall engine with cast rods to 8k regularly and your asking for it.
loggyboy
08-11-07, 05:15 PM
Plus it's cheaper and easier than finding, rebuilding/servicing an XE and changing driveshafts, CV's etc. Leaves you more money to use for track days (which are what at least a ton for the day??)
Not tall, i did my whole XE conversion for less than it would cost for a set of 40s, inlet and 4 branch. Plus i dont have to fork out every 6 months to get it tuned and balanced like you would need to with 40s to get the best out of them. and I still have more power than any 1.6 with 40s thats had more than ?1000 spent on the engine alone.
Also one of the bonus with an XE is economy, if you plan on doing trackdays in a few locations round the country and you dont wanna mess around with trailers or you want to use it on the road, your not gonna want to be running at 20mpg 100% of the time like you would be on 40s. Stick it in 5th on the motorway, get 40mpg at 80mph.
Only thing I don't know is do you need anything for the bottom end just to protect it a bit more with constant high revs. I.E APR bolts with the XE.
An XEs peak power is at around 5.5-6k, way below the redline let alone the rev limiter. All youd need is an oil cooler for prelonged track use and the XE would last aslong as you could hope for, and if you do break it, theres no need to strip it, just buy another one!
Plus i dont have to fork out every 6 months to get it tuned and balanced like you would need to with 40s to get the best out of them.
Oh noes, i hope Dan doesnt read that lol
xe is the cheapest way forward in my oppinion.
But each to there own.
Oh noes, i hope Dan doesnt read that lol
indeed lol. Think the are nearly 6 years on with the initial tune and they be fine, with a mild look see last year or something with no need to change much/anything at all.
ive proven my points regards tuning, reliability and mpg over the years, people prefer the lies so let them carry on lol lol
The xe is the cheapest route in the grand scheme of things no arguements there, i only have my 8v as i have been messing with this engine for 10 years and promised myself i would make it a weapon for what it was, which i achieved and now just enjoy the fun it offers driving it to and from trackdays after a good raping and poodling along to the odd meet and show.
Hhhhm interesting read this thread, but and as Dan said, in the grabd scheme XE's ARE/CAN be the cheapest route :thumb:
All you have to do now is actually turn one of your ideas into reality.....
All you have to do now is actually turn one of your ideas into reality.....
:thumb:
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