Best LSD

[tom_beverley]

No, not the drugs lol

Which is better between the Trans-X and Quaife ATB for the F13?

Also what do the different % mean? :confused:

[craig green]

% is the amount of slip that can be dialled i/out.

I think for road use & some track work the Quaiffe ATB is the best compromise as it a fit & forget item.

Thae Tran-X diffs require periodic inspection & possibly renewals of the clutch type innards I beleive.

If my car was purely trailered to track days & sprints etc I'd have the Tran-X. Until then I will save for the ATB.

[Stuart]

if you have any desire to use the car properly then get a plate diff like a tran-X, gripper etc. and NOT a quaiffe ATB.

cant remember exactly what the % rates mean but i know that 90% means its nearly fully locked but awesome fun!

[Dar]

The nice thing about the quaife ATB diff is that you fit it and forget about it.

The plate diff is great but you will have to think about maintenance on it, which to be honest isn't a huge problem. Also you can adjust it to suit you. Which is also an advantage. However that is also a disadvantage if you don't know what you want.

The ATB diff feels like a normal diff until you put it in to a bend where all you feel is loads more grip. I will let Dan explain how a plate diff feels. You can tell its there! You fight a plate diff more depending on how you have it set.

Also you must remember why a diff is in a car. If you didn't have one i.e. a locked diff (You can lock up the plate diffs) then you just won't make it around a bend without drifting the car around. With a open diff (what we have in our road cars normally) the diff allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds and you can turn normally. However if the inside wheel picks up in a bend it will spin up and take all the power away from the other driving wheel.

The ATB diff works by worm gears and when a wheel starts to spin up it transfers the power to the other wheel. Almost like the opposite of what a open diff does.

The plate type is a more straight forward approach. It uses friction plates under load. When the load on the wheel is over a certain(set by you) thresh hold the wheel will turn more relative to the other wheel. This allows you to get around a corner but when the inside wheel is lifted off of the ground there is little load on it and therefore it won't slip relative to the other wheel and not spin up.

I hope this helps. I've tryed to be as unbias as I possibly can. Its up to you what diff you go for and the choice is yours as they say. Anyone who says that ATB diff is not much better than standard is just plain lieing. I've known people who have switched from one to the other type of diff because of personal preferance.

This is what Quaife say about the ATB diff (http://www.quaife.co.uk/What-is-a-Quaife-ATB-differential)
This is what Tran X say (http://www.tran-x.com/DiffsHTML/diffsHome.html)
Gripper diffs (http://www.robinson-race-cars.co.uk/Gripper%20Diffs.htm)

Im also trying to find some direct comparisons for you.

[Dar]

if you have any desire to use the car properly then get a plate diff like a tran-X, gripper etc. and NOT a quaiffe ATB.
Don't talk bollocks!

[Stuart]

lol

Its personal preference but imho with an ATB being about as much use as a neon kit then its not really worth fitting one...

[craig green]

ATB's are generally well spoken about from owners or people with experience.Saying that, if you'd spent ?50 on one you might not tell everyone its shi T.

[Stuart]

granted im being a tad biased lol, but ever time ive driven an ATB equipt car its tried to kill me by going from open to "locked" in a heartbeat and haualed me into the apex a bit harsher than desired lol.

as said a plate you know its always there and you know exactly wne its gonna do its thing. I personally prefer predictability (also if its of importance if you snap a drive shaft you can 99% of the time limp the car home on a plate diff whereas an ATB will just spin like a normal diff)

[Dar]

There are lots of people in this world who will only support one type of thing excluding all others. I took my car to one place where the old boy there had only worked with carbs (webbers mostly I think) on performance engines. He looked at my throttle bodies and said you want to chuck that rubbish away and get some 45's on there it will perform better. He then started spouting lots of reasons why they where not as good as carbs. Awww bless him.

woohoo, something sensible from Stu!

also if its of importance if you snap a drive shaft you can 99% of the time limp the car home on a plate diff whereas an ATB will just spin like a normal diff
That is one very important reason why the rally boys steer clear of the ATB diff. If something breaks they always want to make it to the end of a stage.

Dunno about your free to locked bit though! I've never had such issues, or maybe your just not expecting it to work and when it does you get frightened?

[Stuart]

as said, i like predictability, yeah it was scary suddenly being hauled in when least expected.... even tried to prepare myself at the next bend and it kicked in at a different point, atleast plate i knew where it was every time and was happy as a pig in poo

Carbs are good on retro cars as they "blend in" but TB's are just the mutts nuts

[Dar]

Your the only person I have heard say that though. Its alway been seamless on my car the only difference you notice is that you have mountains more grip than you did before the diff was fitted. If it was unpredictable, I or anyone else wouldn't be able to pedal a car with one fitted around a track and hit any apex.

One thing that is obvious though is that the ATB diff does not suit your driving style. Which is fair enough.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/DPursey/smileys%20icons/rocks.gif yeah TB's rock!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/DPursey/smileys%20icons/headbanger1.gif

[Stuart]

also worth a note, plates dont need a rebuild every 5 mins like most folks make out... more like every 2 years of road use... and its only like ?50 lol.

one thing is for sure though, diffs dont lose money (unless you lunch it somehow) so you could try one, if you dont like it, sell up and get the other for minimal cost... (for ATB's contact a guy called steveboyslim on mig or vauxsport for better prices than most places can offer)


oh an undiffed XE is a laugh in completely the wrong way round a track (tried seans old car at llandow)

[Austin_Nova16]

150quid all in for a rebuild on an escort plate diff in my nova from 'thegearboxman' although that did involve removing/putting back into the casing.

:thumb:

[craig green]

I've heard that some people come unstuck when 1st driving on an ATB. Apparently a few people have had nasty accidents.

Wouldnt put me off. More throttle in a bend = more grip. Is that right?

[tom_beverley]

So my opinion they both have advantages :tard:

The big plus would be the adjustment of the plate diff although the ATB would be better from a lazy point of view

IMO the plate diff sounds better, but I have the chance of buying a 2nd hand one so it will probably need servicing therefore as expensive as a new one :mad:

[Chunky Lover]

Plate diff on the loose and its very easy to get caught out especially as you go up the revs the wheels spin faster and loose grip and the diff takes over and starts pulling the car to one side. also coming down the gears it has a tendency to pullto one side.
Great fun tho!!!

[Dan]

Ok, i personally run a gripper plate diff which i have been over the moon with since fitting. I have had it checked once in the past as i destroyed 5th gear and thought it best due to all the bits floating around the gearbox. Total cost was 40 quid :).

I have driven the odd car with a quaife diff and they are not for me again as dar said due to driving style. Nova--chris moved from a quaife to a gripper after having experienced both and has been over the moon with his choice.

I'm sure charles will have a view on this as he has lately had his car back on track and has driven both types of diff.

End of the day its all horses for courses, but in my personal opinion if the car is mostly a road car with occasional track use then the quaife would be ample, for more track orientated then a plate wins it for me. Anythings better than nothing lol :thumb:

[Lee]

Agreed, my 2p's worth will basically agree with Dan that if your going to be using the car on the road more than track, steer clear of the plate diff, as it does have negative issues when driving on the road, namely very graunchy when trying to do tight manuvers, impossible to push the car round a corner (its a nova) and the steering will become uber heavy at slow speeds (if Dan says it doesnt, this is because he has arms like oak trees). An ATB is a great all rounder, im not sure what Stu is on about, but he bought a VXshoe20, which says it all really lol

Ill be honest that Im now undecided which I will get when funds allow, a cheeky go in Dans car might sway me towards a plate jobbie (hint hint nudge nudge lol)

[draper]

a cheeky go in Dans car might sway me towards a plate jobbie (hint hint nudge nudge lol)

as subtle as a brick in the face

[Dan]

lol lol lol He will have his chance monday at combe as he well knows lol. As regards road manners for a plate diff it isnt that bad. It can remind you its there when on a tight lock agreed (makes horrible noises) but beyond that after the first mile you dont even know its there imo. i also run a quick rack and it still isnt that bad for being heavy. Again i will agree that i do prefer to have a good strong feedback through the wheel though.

Also there is many a person that has just jumped in mine and driven it and had no ill feelings towards any one part. Christ, even stuart can drive it with ease and he is the prime role model of uber lazy :thumb:

[Jim]

Stuart, to be fair, you don't drive a FWD car with a Quaife diff on a daily basis (yes I know I don't at the minute either, lol), so saying it's as much use as neon lights is a little insulting.

Perhaps those who have a car with this set up who drive it on a regular basis get used to driving the car so that there is no sudden "pull you into the hedge" experiences. Going for a blast in a car, sticking it on full lock then planting your foot is a bit extreme.

I envisage this turning into a "whichever diff I have is the best" kinda post. I'm not saying the Quaife is best, but the fact that so many people use them and the amount they cost I really hope they are more use than neon lighting.

[nova---chris]

Stuart, to be fair, you don't drive a FWD car with a Quaife diff on a daily basis (yes I know I don't at the minute either, lol), so saying it's as much use as neon lights is a little insulting.

Perhaps those who have a car with this set up who drive it on a regular basis get used to driving the car so that there is no sudden "pull you into the hedge" experiences. Going for a blast in a car, sticking it on full lock then planting your foot is a bit extreme.

I envisage this turning into a "whichever diff I have is the best" kinda post. I'm not saying the Quaife is best, but the fact that so many people use them and the amount they cost I really hope they are more use than neon lighting.

I think so many use quaife due to them being the leader when first on the block. BUt other diff manafacturers have become more apparant in the later years. Hence more people choosing to go elsewhere such as tran-x / gripper / and others.

On a personal note i found the quaife not quite up to the task on track. trying to heap 200bhp through one didnt quite work out for me. I found the car being pulled everywhere under acceleration . Into and out of corners could be hairy especially when on the power exiting. But i do agree as a over all road/track use diff i would think its fine. just not my cup of tea due to me going more track orientated.

So i sold the quaife on after not alot of use tbh. and bought a gripper plate diff which as mentioned before was set to 45/45 which equates to 90 and almost perm front wheel drive. There is a instant difference in the feel of the diff. its so much harsher in use. horrid at low speeds. bangs clanks like a out of tune rock band. But give it some revs show it a hard corner and plant it and yes it out performs the quaife hands down. Im not saying its perfect but theres alot more feeling it it. alot sharper. instant.

This is a personal view and if you feel the need to slate it then please do. but ive used both diffs and both in a nova with over 200bhp which i would assume is good enough to behable to write a review on. :)

anyhow buy wisely. think what usage its getting. how far you want to do. then just phone tom at gripper and order your plate diff lol

[Dar]

I wouldn't and haven't advised against or for either diff. However in this type of thread the ATB diff gets right royally slated.

I cannot be bothered to argue for an ATB diff, but I cannot sit here and stay silent when I read stuff like this. The symptoms that both Stu and Chris have described have never happened to me whilst using an ATB diff and I have been using it for years! For example one feature of the ATB diff and one big selling point is that it pretty much eliminates harsh torque steer in FWD cars. Yet I read torque steer symptoms? I have never had any torque steer! If my sprint footage from last year is still hosted on the net, watch the launch and you will see no fighting with the car off of the line.

Saying it’s not up to the task on track is rubbish as far as I am concerned. If you prefer one type of diff then fine, use it. But others might prefer another type! It’s like people who drive RWD cars saying that FWD cars are rubbish and that if your serious about your car then you MUST have a RWD car! One might be slightly better, but it also might be harder to handle and to setup. Whereas the other type is more plug and play and offer the driver more enjoyment.

Not a lot of people use there cars for competition, I do(On track only) and I spend the money making the car faster. If I thought that a plate diff would make the car ALOT faster than it is now I would buy one. I may even end up with a plate diff later on when I require more fine tuning.

I research everything that goes on the car and I go for what I feel is the best for me, I do not follow the crowd. I picked the ATB diff biased on what I wanted from it.

I suggest that anyone who is thinking about buying a LSD have a good look at the market read about each type of diff available to you. Find out the pros and cons of each, apply them to what you will be using the car for and also how you decide you want the car to feel.

[nova---chris]

I wouldn't and haven't advised against or for either diff. However in this type of thread the ATB diff gets right royally slated.

I cannot be bothered to argue for an ATB diff, but I cannot sit here and stay silent when I read stuff like this. The symptoms that both Stu and Chris have described have never happened to me whilst using an ATB diff and I have been using it for years! For example one feature of the ATB diff and one big selling point is that it pretty much eliminates harsh torque steer in FWD cars. Yet I read torque steer symptoms? I have never had any torque steer! If my sprint footage from last year is still hosted on the net, watch the launch and you will see no fighting with the car off of the line.

Saying it’s not up to the task on track is rubbish as far as I am concerned. If you prefer one type of diff then fine, use it. But others might prefer another type! It’s like people who drive RWD cars saying that FWD cars are rubbish and that if your serious about your car then you MUST have a RWD car! One might be slightly better, but it also might be harder to handle and to setup. Whereas the other type is more plug and play and offer the driver more enjoyment.

Not a lot of people use there cars for competition, I do(On track only) and I spend the money making the car faster. If I thought that a plate diff would make the car ALOT faster than it is now I would buy one. I may even end up with a plate diff later on when I require more fine tuning.

I research everything that goes on the car and I go for what I feel is the best for me, I do not follow the crowd. I picked the ATB diff biased on what I wanted from it.

I suggest that anyone who is thinking about buying a LSD have a good look at the market read about each type of diff available to you. Find out the pros and cons of each, apply them to what you will be using the car for and also how you decide you want the car to feel.

My post was my own opinion based on owning both diffs and having used them both!
No where did i say one was rubish and one wasnt. please read my post again.

Just happens that i preffer the plate diff over what quaife offerd me for certain reasons. And in my eyes it didnt live up to what id been told!

Just my opinion. again i could say your jumping on the quaife band wagon but thats your opnion?! :)
Your not slipping mr quaife one are ya?

[Dar]

I read your post a few times and I read this "So i sold the quaife on after not alot of use" and "the quaife not quite up to the task on track" and "anyhow buy wisely. think what usage its getting. how far you want to do. then just phone tom at gripper and order your plate diff"

I don't care what people buy. How much hard track use has your plate diff had?

and no I'm not give Mr Quaife one. If I was I would have got a sequential box:thumb:

EDIT: Please read my post again. I am not saying one is better than the other. What I am trying to do is not let this get one sided and let the ATB have a voice. If I kept quite this post would read get a plate diff, I tryed a ATB diff and it tryed to kill me!

[kevster]

i have a ATB in the white nova and i love it , took a bit of gettin used to tho :)

[CP]

Its down to personal taste. I've been using the Quaife ATB for some years now and for 97% of the time its great- no problems, Ronseal all the way. Where I have found issues was once at Oulton Pk in the wet on slow corners it shunted drive side to side which I suppose was more irritating than anything else. The second time was at Rockingham the other day on the slowest hairpins where we experiencing what can best be described as "hopping" as we were trying to feed power in to get out of the bends. It was shunting the drive about and the wheels were snatching and releasing.
However I had just changed the caster and camber fairly radically plus we had no toe out at that stage so it could easily have been the bad suspension making it difficult for the diff. We may have upset the Ackerman angle as well cos we were getting heavy understeer on the same bends:confused: . Then again since we playing last of the late great brakers with the new brakes we could just have been going too fastlol Then again I had just fitted a completely new set of slicks to a different spec and we had levels of grip that we hadn't experienced before. Also having lowered the car the steering arm angle is not good so bump steer could be an issue. Who knows - the closer you get to the goal of ultimate performance the more confusing it becomes.:tard:

I liked dans plate diff when I drove it but that was on normal roads and only for a few miles so not really a fair comparison but I can see why people like them and believe what they say about them. I would happily have one and may fit one in the future cause they probably have the edge in more competition orientated conditions.

So to sum up I would say that probably under most circumstances on road and on track you wouldn't know there was any difference - they both work brilliantly and soooo much better than not having one.
Its really only in certain circumstances - ie low speed very tight corners/ variable loose or slippy conditions etc where the plate diff would come out clearly ahead. Its totally predictable which will help the driver to be more confident - probably the biggest factor in all of this.

If you do fit a quaife make sure you take it easy and get to know how it reacts before giving it grief. DO NOT FIT IT & DRIVE STRAIGHT TO YOUR NEAREST URBAN "RACETRACK" AND BURY THE PEDAL OF YOUR 200HP NOVA OFF THE EXIT OF A WET ROUNDABOUT IN TRAFFIC IN FRONT OF ALL YOUR MATES!!:D

If you listen to fast drivers they all talk of feeding the power in and if you do that you'll be fine.

I'm glad someone mentioned sequential gearboxes:thumb: I want one - shall we start a group buy thread - they're only ?7 or 8K:eek: lol

[Jim]

On a personal note i found the quaife not quite up to the task on track. trying to heap 200bhp through one didnt quite work out for me. I found the car being pulled everywhere under acceleration . Into and out of corners could be hairy especially when on the power exiting. But i do agree as a over all road/track use diff i would think its fine. just not my cup of tea due to me going more track orientated.
Chris, just out of interest, how many track days did you do with the Quaife diff installed?

[nova---chris]

I read your post a few times and I read this "So i sold the quaife on after not alot of use" and "the quaife not quite up to the task on track" and "anyhow buy wisely. think what usage its getting. how far you want to do. then just phone tom at gripper and order your plate diff"

I don't care what people buy. How much hard track use has your plate diff had?

and no I'm not give Mr Quaife one. If I was I would have got a sequential box:thumb:

EDIT: Please read my post again. I am not saying one is better than the other. What I am trying to do is not let this get one sided and let the ATB have a voice. If I kept quite this post would read get a plate diff, I tryed a ATB diff and it tryed to kill me!

Mate its gripping at straws.
If if if.

If i had the money i wouldnt be messing iwth a nova. i wouldnt have a normal gearbox i wouldnt have shoddy brakes. iw ouldnnt have many things.
But this is what we have and this is the truth of the matter or how i see it in my experience. the car has been on track with the quaife fitted., been driven round public roads with it and my conclusion is the gripper is better. not cos i market them or support them in any way . It just works best in my car. end of really?

[nova---chris]

Chris, just out of interest, how many track days did you do with the Quaife diff installed?

Jim i did 2 with quaife in stalled. And big chris from york will tell you how the diff made the car feel. also dan and stu all haven driven and felt effects.

But what suits one dosent suit another. just the way it is.
I mean if you like quaife then buy a quaife diff?? if you want a plate buy a plate.! no one tells you what to buy and we am all intitled to a opinion. ??
Just happens my opinion on quaife isnt liked but thats life i suppose :)

[Dar]

Mate its gripping at straws.
If if if.

? Not quite sure what your getting at here:confused: Anyway it sounds like your taking this a bit personaly which is not how its meant:eek:

CP - Nice post :thumb: spot on IMO

[nova---chris]

? Not quite sure what your getting at here:confused: Anyway it sounds like your taking this a bit personaly which is not how its meant:eek:

CP - Nice post :thumb: spot on IMO

nowt personal mate. i dont really care as ive made my decision on what diff i want ect. Thing is different cars different power differnt setups will experience different issues. So whats good for one might not be good for another and this is what i found.

My opion dosent sit on the fence . so i suppose thats an issue.
Proof will be in the pudding i guess tomorrow to how the plate diff works out . But lookin at forcast it seems things will be a touch wet.

as for personal i take jack on here as personal lol. infact i come on to wind things up mainly . makes things far more intresting! :tard:

[CP]

Lol lol aaaannnnyyyyways in answer to your question Tom, WTF do we all know?-fit what you fancy or can afford the easiest - either is much much better than nowt:D

Any takers for the sequential gear box group buy?

anyone?

:tumble:

:D

[nova---chris]

Lol lol aaaannnnyyyyways in answer to your question Tom, WTF do we all know?-fit what you fancy or can afford the easiest - either is much much better than nowt:D

Any takers for the sequential gear box group buy?

anyone?

:tumble:

:D

No, your far too rich farmer boy lol

[Philsutton]

Ive always used the ATB as all the cars ive fitted them to are used on the road alot and for the hassle and for your average person it does the job alot better than the standard one. If however I was only using the car for track / rally's then i would go for a plate one but most people dont consider going to tescos make use of the 3 for 2 quiche offer thats on.