1.3 turbo plans?

[beavy69]

got a 1.3 with ast2 cam and well ported head. want to turbo it.Could I use an irmsher injection system + head spacer (with gasket either side) + mvaux 1.6 8v turbo kit. Perhaps with 1.6 GSi injectors for extra fueling?Any thoughts on if it will work and what I might need to look out for/change/include?thanks,7im.

[Adam]

Remove the AST2, fit a standard cam or a turbo specific custom jobbie.

The irmscher injection system would be the best method yeah.

[Saloony]

Worth a squirt, just so happen to have irmy set up for sale.

Shameless plug i know.

[beavy69]

What wrong with an AST2, will it be a pig to drive?

How much are you looking for fa the kit posted Saloony? Take it its good working condition? Do you have everything I need to go from 32/34 to injection?

Anyone think of anything else I may need to consider for this parts wise? Will I def need con rod bolt upgrade for example?

[Adam]

What wrong with an AST2, will it be a pig to drive?

A suitable cam for a NA motor is completely unsuitable for a turbo'd motor.
As you want minimal overlap for a turbo, to not blow the inlet charge straight out the open exhaust valve(overlap) So i seriously doubt the ast2 would work very well in a turbo'd engine, standard cam would be more suitable.

ARP rod bolts is not needed, as a turbo doesn't need high revs to make good power. So the standard ones are fine as long as you stay under about 6500rpm. :thumb:

[maccas]

rather than buying an irmscher injection system(no offence to saloony) wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use the inlet and head etc from a c14se as these are much more common place and aren't the heads of a better design? irmy injection systems are very rare, just a thought

maccas

[Mike]

Personally, id go an source an C14SE engine to start. An then turbo that. However, IMO the little 1.4 woundnt be worth it, i reckon you'll be lucky to reach 120bhp from the 1.4 with a charger.

[Welsh Dan]

You can get around 100bhp from a 1.4 on carbs, so I'd expect a lot more than 120 to be available from a properly built and set up turbo unit. For the work involved I don't understand why you're not choosing a 1.6 as the starting point though.

[Mike]

You can get around 100bhp from a 1.4 on carbs, so I'd expect a lot more than 120 to be available from a properly built and set up turbo unit. For the work involved I don't understand why you're not choosing a 1.6 as the starting point though.

personally i dont think hes planning on building a properly built Turbo motor, hence the 120bhp statedment. Even a standard 1.6 engine with an M-Vaux kit bolted on will hit upwards of 145bhp.

Personally, my starting point would be a 1.6 MPi engine.

[Ash]

Sounds like a plan, didn't burgo or baxter build a 1.3 turbo??

Btw if you wanted to swap (plus some cash) the AST2 for a standard GSi one, let me know, I'm only up the road ;)

[General Baxter]

Sounds like a plan, didn't baxter build a 1.3 turbo??

lol

yeah the piston desided to melt :thumb:

[Ash]

yea, but so do all your engines :p

[General Baxter]

the TD did not melt it went one better, it exploded lol

[novacabrio]

Cant be bothered to read the whole thread so not sure if its been mentioned but the Irmscher injection uses the injectors from a 1.8 Cavalier so 1.6 GSI items will be a down grade

[craig green]

Courtenay did a few 1.3 & 1.4's by this method. They would have used an FSE regulator aswell to raise the fuel pressure & then a vacuum switch to trigger the TPS to full throttle when it comes on boost. The AFM takes care of the rest of it. It'll need a cone filter naturally as the airbox would be reversed. An Mvaux manifold & turbo is the cheapest route to finding a bolt on manifold & charger.

Would a 1.6 head lower the CR on a 1.3? Bigger valves IIRC so that could be advantageous. 1.6 std cam is pretty good IMO, I used that & a Piper on my turbo. The std cam felt best at top end.

[Adam]

Yep 1600 head would drop compression quite a way.

[beavy69]

Ok just a little follow up from some things that have been said also:

I've got about 100 bhp now and hope for about 130 after.

Already revs to just over 8,000 rpm now but that's gotte be due to the AST2 also (which I now know I need to remove for this)

At present I have a 1.6 mpi head and cam and gsi inlet, fuel rail and injectors collected so far as that was what I was considering first. Thing is I have no loom or ECU etc and my 1.3 head is well ported already. I'm still looking for an Irmscher Sport pack as then I could keep the head and its all designed to fit meaning less messing (aside from the fact that I would need a spacer/double gasket to lower the compression)

Would it be better/possible to run the GSi inlet etc with the irscher kit on the 1.6 head?

[craig green]

Thats possibly what I'd do. Run a 1600 head & inlet with a spacer. Run it off the 1300 ECU & prolly the injectors (it seems they are 1800 ones anyway).

You'd have most of the bits to build another 1300 N/A left over anyway.

It might be that the plenum is a bit large or the throttle body off the 160 is too large aswell but atleast you will have it to try. I'm not sure on the port shapes on the head & inlet/plenum if you are to chop & change it about to try it during setup etc.

The other things to consider are oil feed & rturn for the turbo & the breather pipes. Its likely the turbo will foul or be too close to the oil filter on the small block lumps, so you will want a remote oil filter kit from the likes of MOCAL which you can have an oil cooler running off aswell.

[Adam]

A standard limiter(around 6300rpm) will be fine for a turbo'd motor too. So standard rod bolts/cam etc are fine.

[beavy69]

Craig when you say 1.6 head AND spacer; I thought that in using the 1.6 head, that was sufficient in itself to drop the compression? How do I know what size spacer i'll need?

Oh yeah, I didn't think about the oil, mvaux supply the feed and return hoses but not sure how to connect them.

Also, is the downpipe connection on the 1.6 that same as a 1.3? As the mvaux turbo is for a 1.6.

Do you mean the plenum/TB may be too high for the bonnet?

The ports on the 1.6 inlet and head are all round but naturally ill be fine matching them when I recondition the head.

And I'll certainly be using a rev limiter - don't wanna ruin all the hard work - may let it up to 6,500 though?

thanks for the advice so far.

[Philsutton]

yeah the piston desided to melt :thumb:

got the fueling spot on by the sounds of it then lol

[Adam]

You'd have to measure the cr to see what 1.6 head on the 1300 block leaves you at.
All ohc 8v exhaust ports are the same. But a 1.6 downpipe angle is slightly different.

Id be tempted by a mappable ecu to sort fueling/ignition, as a 1300 injection system is quite costly, and wont be mapped right for a 1600 head(different ports=different breathing characteristics) And you'll still need to "bodge" it with a "special" fuel regulator etc.
So it seems a bit pointless buying a 1300 irmscher system tbh.

[craig green]

Also, is the downpipe connection on the 1.6 that same as a 1.3? As the mvaux turbo is for a 1.6.

Do you mean the plenum/TB may be too high for the bonnet?



The down pipe is irrelevant as you would need a custom one. From the wastegate housing on the turbo to meet up to your system.

I meant the volume of the plenum internally. Just a thought that has confused you, I was just adding my thoughts on wether the inlet & TB off the 1.3 irmscher system is better suited to the engine cc. (1300)