View Full Version : Pay As You Go Road Pricing
wisewood
23-05-07, 09:38 AM
I know this has been discussed before, but I've just been reading another article on this road pricing plan and something occured to me that I haven't thought of before.
If you are driving about paying as you go according to the road you're on, and what time you are driving along it - that's great - their master plan is working nicely etc.
What happens when someone from france, spain, germany... Poland.. etc etc etc drives over from Europe in their own vehicle? How are they then charged for using British roads? A flat rate doesn't seem fair - and fitting a make-shift gps system to be removed when they leave the country seems a little unrealistic.
Stop johnny foreigner coming in all together maybe? Or make them park their own car at the port and use a hire car that they are charged by the mile for?
What do you think? There is no point burying your head in the sand and saying "this will never happen" because the bill has been passed and trials have started.
craig green
23-05-07, 09:40 AM
Dont foreigners drive without tax, MOT & Insurance in most cases anyway?
its just another case of foreigners coming over here and acting like its there country
the hire car bit seems the most 'obtainable idea' at the moment but we all know how hire cars are treated so that probably wont be profitable, maybe it will be the same way the london congestion zone works ??
wisewood
23-05-07, 09:43 AM
I don't know how that works lol I haven't been to London since about 1998, I wouldn't even remember where it was lollollol
im sure its all cameras, like ANPR
ANPR could be used i suppose, theyd love a reason to put it everywhere im sure and could smokescreen us into saying "its to catch those foreign ****wits we let have run of the country because we're incompetent at our jobs"
wisewood
23-05-07, 09:47 AM
I prefer the idea of keeping them out all-together. More jobs for British people that way, and then when my master-plan to stop all unemployment benefits comes into force when I am Prime Minister, everyone who doesn't want to starve to death will have plenty of jobs to choose from :D
pass the bill over europe too then lol. easy answer
yeah im with you, its easily sorted tho, we'll just leave the EU
wisewood
23-05-07, 09:50 AM
easier said than done though. France would never go for it on the principle that we have it, and since there is a direct link between here and france without having to get your feet wet, that would be a big problem.
Keep em out. All of 'em.
just erm "clone" yer mates car details, saves you cash lol
craig green
23-05-07, 10:05 AM
THATS IT! I'm off to pastures new.
Feck this place !
remap it to erm fudge the numbers lol
does thi smean we wont have to continually remember to SORN vehicles aswell since 'they' will know its parked on my drive
hmm intresting..... technically if you dont drive it you dont pay... but i bet there will be a "service charge"
wisewood
23-05-07, 10:22 AM
i shouldnt think you would have to do anything like that, becuase if you're paying for the mileage, and its not doing any mileage, you dont pay anything. Simple.
hmm intresting..... technically if you dont drive it you dont pay... but i bet there will be a "service charge"
Definately would be. To cover the cost of the GPS transmitting data through their servers, probably.
but do you then get to claim off the Govt for getting a flat battery?
Definately would be. To cover the cost of the GPS transmitting data through their servers, probably.
computer hackers heaven then me thinks? Personally, id use the plates of my now deceased nova lol
road angel 1678 - stops GPRS transmission from your car
road angel 1678 - stops GPRS transmission from your car
hhmmm, how long before that becomes illegal then lol
What about the initial cost of wiring in GPS transmitters to all cars?
I really can't see road pricing working anyway, so many people will complain, refuse or "tamper" with the transmitter. I know I would.
Jim Mcrae
23-05-07, 10:55 AM
We should do a huge protest! Anyone up for a mass go slow on the M5 on bank holiday! lol
^^ everyone will be doing that anyway lol
The cost of installing a device would be more than the nova is worth!
If it happens depends on if Joe Public stops obsessing with whatever t*sser celebrity and opens their sodding eyes.
The masses should be executed.
wisewood
23-05-07, 11:11 AM
What about the initial cost of wiring in GPS transmitters to all cars?
I really can't see road pricing working anyway, so many people will complain, refuse or "tamper" with the transmitter. I know I would.
Road pricing is a good plan. And is a fair way to charge people - fuel tax already kinda does this, but doesnt charge more for driving on congested roads at busy times etc as the pricing scheme would do.
However, if road pricing goes national i'd like to see them charging a fair amount per mile, instead of ?1.25 and stuff like that, charge ?0.10 per mile up to ?0.50 per mile except in heavily congested areas... then bin the tax on fuel right down so that you can realistically afford to run a car.
Oh yeah - and i believe the owner of the vehicle would be responsible for paying for the device to be installed lol
Road pricing is a good plan. And is a fair way to charge people - fuel tax already kinda does this, but doesnt charge more for driving on congested roads at busy times etc as the pricing scheme would do.
Yes I see the logic and it does seem a fair scheme idea, although I reckon I'd get done going to uni in rush hour in the mornings! I prefer the thought of fuel tax, at least that way I know what I'm paying.
Oh yeah - and i believe the owner of the vehicle would be responsible for paying for the device to be installed lol
Thought so! That thought annoys me more, having to pay for something that will charge me! :mad:lol
If it happens depends on if Joe Public stops obsessing with whatever t*sser celebrity and opens their sodding eyes.
:thumb: About time people got their act together.
wisewood
23-05-07, 11:32 AM
Simple solution - go to uni early :D get there ahead of the rush hour traffic and get a bacon sandwich while you wait.
but how much will these boxes way ?? cant see oli being happy about adding weight lol
I can't imagine the little boxes weighing much at all and they should also used a tiny voltage. I have a SiRFIII GPS Reciever and thats about the size of a box of matches.
Also what happens if you decided not to use the roads and 'offroad' you shouldn't be charged for that and if you are then I guess you will also be chraged for going around a track at trackdays or looking for a car parking space at your local Tescos and if you have a long driveway you will be charged for using that.
I still think that they should just drop road tax and put it on the fuel or just simply take it out of the fuel tax. I guess they could still have toll roads that have devices to read your number plate and send you a bill every month.
the box and a 12v batt in the back of the garage, job's a good un....
with ANPR they can track where you are in the country and see if that matches the little black boxes idea of where you are.... then that box in the garage tirck wont work lol
craig green
23-05-07, 12:55 PM
Learn to speak Polish & plead ignorance!
wisewood
23-05-07, 12:58 PM
The GPS transmitter i had on my van a while ago wasn't very big. About two inches in diameter, and about half an inch tall, attached to the roof of the van, though the guy installing it did tell me it could be hidden underneath or in the engine bay too with no loss of signal. It allowed management to track my driving on a map, in real time - seeing where i was, where i was heading and how fast i was going.
The weight of it would be about the same as a mobile phone probably.
wisewood
23-05-07, 12:58 PM
Learn to speak Polish & plead ignorance!
yekh shamesh
craig green
23-05-07, 01:01 PM
NiiiiiiiiCE!
Kickingriffin
23-05-07, 01:06 PM
I def dont like the idea that we have to pay for the bloody things!!
dhdev (Oli)
23-05-07, 01:13 PM
but how much will these boxes way ?? cant see oli being happy about adding weight lol
lol lol lol Haven't been on here for a while, but glad to know I'm not forgotten. PMSL when I read that! They can fook right off unless they can make one that weighs less than a tax disc (which incidentally isn't fitted as its too heavy :thumb: )
All the Government is worried about is the dramatic increasae of cars on the roads. A simple solution is to make every person re take their driving test every 5 to 10 years, thus keeping useless drivers off the roads, that means most around this way as all are elderly, too slow and absolutely unaware of anything happening beyond their dashboard.
Also make mums walk their kids to school, then I'd be able to see some fine MILFs pushing push chairs to my local school instead of being hidden away in a 4x4.
wisewood
23-05-07, 02:26 PM
erm, not everyone lives within walking distance of their local school lol and not every mum does the school run. Dads do too.
get with the times lol
going to the Local school should be made compulsory too, sod this "ooh but that school 20billion miles away is the trendy one to say my kids goto" twunts. If the govt meant what it really meant about all schoools being equal then there should be no need to do that ;)
wisewood
23-05-07, 02:44 PM
I'm totally with you there. Though where we live there is a school really close that is TERRIBLE, and one a bit further away that is MUCH better. both are closer to our house than my school was when i was growing up, but the kid would be pushed into the crap one under normal conditions.
Our kid will be registered at the grandparents house which is closer to the good school :D
see you ****ing the country up..... you should be sacked as admin due to setting a crap example.
wisewood
23-05-07, 03:10 PM
lol that wasn't a criteria when i was given the job.
lol that wasn't a criteria when i was given the job.
so what was :tard: :p
lol
wisewood
23-05-07, 03:41 PM
1. I was on the site ALL the time throughout normal business hours
2. I knew my way around the admin of phpbb v2.0 from another site i had
3. Dan made me buy him a years supply of pies, which for dan, is a lot of pies.
Send him some Pieminister (http://www.pieminister.co.uk/?gclid=CMrCkbOYpYwCFRJUEAodxmoymg)pies this time. Should see you right :thumb:
duuno if its been said already, but these boxes would be great for track cars. First of you only pay when you use the car to drive to the track, and once your home from the track, ring up traffic control and ask for your lap times :D
3. Dan made me buy him a years supply of pies, which for dan, is a lot of pies.
My god, that really IS a lot of pies!
My position onthis is the same as it always has been. if its done properly, and fairly, ie, fuel and road tax is dropped, then i dont see the problem, as someone like me who does a gazillion miles a year will pay more than your gran who does about 10 miles a year. HOWEVER, i would imagine Mr Brown will have big pound signs ring up in his eyes, plus the green brigade will probably have a big influence on the whole thing, therefore i would imagine it wont be fair at all.
Therefore, we have to be more like the french and boycot the whole thing. But like i said before on a thread similar to this, we are british, therefore, we shall all bend over with our pants round our ankles, holding a big tube of lube.
I dunno, i think something like this might actually make Joe Public get off his lardy ar$e and do something. Especially considering 2 million people supposedly signed that internet petition (admittedly though worth less than the paper its written on, i.e. less than zilch) yet the government still pressed ahead with it, and almost everyone I've spoken to - including policemen - refuse point blank to have some form of GPS device in their car.
Probably find it'll only be subsidised on new cars too, so all of us with >10 year old cars will have to pay some massive fee to have it installed in an attempt to make it uneconomical to own an old car - another evil ruse to get us all to drive G-Wiz's or Prius's lol
wisewood
24-05-07, 09:53 AM
G-Wiz = death trap. fact.
we shall all bend over with our pants round our ankles, holding a big tube of lube.
thought you prefered it dry....
yep, if done fair its great, but we know full well it wont be fair so meh, iceland here i come lol.
wisewood
24-05-07, 10:13 AM
To my original point though - how do you charge foreign drivers coming into the country in their own vehicles?
Those who become resident here, fair enough, should be expected to fit a gps and be the same as the rest of us, but what about those on holiday etc.
i guess the same as us on holiday there... we dont pay to use their roads now... unless its a toll road.
wisewood
24-05-07, 10:30 AM
True. never thought of it like that lol
but they havent got a road pricing system
im gonna import a nova from malta, it wont be rusty and wont have to pay to use the roads :D
wisewood
24-05-07, 10:55 AM
i think the documentation would have to be changed lol
or a french car and drive round dressed like -
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/draper01/french.jpg
without the wine obviously
It'll be Stella instead lol
I assume cyclists and horses will also have these GPS devices fitted then? As they use the roads, so should help to pay the the taxes.
There's a thought. What about if you trailer your car? If I break down and Mr RAC comes to tow me home, will the GPS device still register me as using the road? Do I get a 50% reduction in the bill if my front wheels are jacked up on a dolly and only my rear wheels are on the road? Or a completely free ride if all my wheels are off the road, as technically I'm not using it?
Will every single road have a big sign on it telling me how much it costs to use? What happens if I ram into the back of someone (oo-er) whilst driving along and staring at a sign trying to figure out how much the road will cost me?
Will every single road have a big sign on it telling me how much it costs to use? What happens if I ram into the back of someone (oo-er) whilst driving along and staring at a sign trying to figure out how much the road will cost me?
Good point, you'll have people making last minute turnings onto cheaper roads, and people performing potentially dangerous u turns to save a few pence!
I assume cyclists and horses will also have these GPS devices fitted then? As they use the roads, so should help to pay the the taxes.
Well neither pay road tax, and obviously not petrol tax, and as I assume the road pricing is to (supposedly) reduce emissions and pollution I doubt they'll be included in any of this.
As for the towing, I reckon the recovery vehicle will be paying the price for using the road so you'd probably get hit with that bill too?!
horses produce CO2 emissions and they are un regulated!!!!! cyclists will be breathing out more CO2 than if they were walking.... if the govt are going to be pedantic about things, they should be pedantic across the board!
Their only pedantic when it suits them, plus cyclists and horse owners by and large side with the conservatives anyway, which is what New Labour want to be.
To my original point though - how do you charge foreign drivers coming into the country in their own vehicles?
Those who become resident here, fair enough, should be expected to fit a gps and be the same as the rest of us, but what about those on holiday etc.
At the moment theyre not required to show a UK tax disc when over here, so i doubt they'll need a GPS box.
IMO, like mentioned before, its hackers paradise. They cant keep track of all of us. It needs to be boycotted, simple as that.
wisewood
24-05-07, 02:45 PM
There's a thought. What about if you trailer your car? If I break down and Mr RAC comes to tow me home, will the GPS device still register me as using the road? Do I get a 50% reduction in the bill if my front wheels are jacked up on a dolly and only my rear wheels are on the road? Or a completely free ride if all my wheels are off the road, as technically I'm not using it?
Engine not running - tracker not tracking. That's how my van worked. I know this to be fact as my father-in-law was my boss and i used to play with the tracking software on his laptop at weekends lol looking at where i'd been and stuff.
Engine not running - tracker not tracking.
So as rush hour traffic is practically at a crawl, I can just get out and push my car most of the journey! :D
wisewood
24-05-07, 02:57 PM
I suppose you could try it. Though there may be systems in place to prevent this, such as it logging your last position, and new position when you start up - and if this happens regularly they'll know you're cheating lol
Buy a van, stick an engine in the rear on a seperate switchable loom. Have the Front one GPS'd. Then use the rear to drive around on.. Thus never starting the engine n the front !
Buy a van, stick an engine in the rear on a seperate switchable loom. Have the Front one GPS'd. Then use the rear to drive around on.. Thus never starting the engine n the front !
brilliant idea lol
Or buy a Prius.
...No, actually don't lol
prius owners are the most stupid/delluded people on the planet!!!! the carbon footprint of the car is insane + they are never driven to actually get use out of the RC car effort they have.
.. plus, i imagine in a crash, being doused in loads of battery acid would probably put i right crimp on your day as well.
wisewood
24-05-07, 04:02 PM
chemical peel ... people pay a fortune for them!
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