Anti-lag

[turbojolt]

has any one here got a anti lag system on the car and if so could you post up a picture of it in action or a video

[Mike]

search youtube, simple

and BTW, its illegal to use on the road :thumb:

[turbojolt]

what can you turn it on and off sorry if its astupid question but i dont know much about it

[Jack]

Celica GT4 WRC's come with it, but its disconnected. Some people reconnect it, then quickly disconnect it about 1,000 miles later when they're on turbo #3 lol

[turbojolt]

there are no vauxhalls on you-tube with anti lag

[Mike]

there are no vauxhalls on you-tube with anti lag

you never mentiond vauxhalls. If your planning on fitting it, start saving :thumb: then start a seperate account for savings for your new turbo when your old one exspires :thumb:

[turbojolt]

no i dont ever wont it unless you can turn it on and off

[Jack]

Well you can disconnect it, yeah (see comment about the WRC Celicas), but its a pain to keep doing.

[Mike]

no i dont ever wont it unless you can turn it on and off

why exactly do you want it?

[turbojolt]

i think it looks class and would be class on a striped bucketed caged nova

[novabex]

Its pointless unless your going to compete in rallys and stuff.

For 1/4 mile and normal track its a big fat waste of money.

[Philsutton]

I have some form of anti lag on mine, set it up an tested it last night and holy **** cant believe how much of a difference it makes. However its not the anti lag your thinking of which uses explosions in the turbo its just nitrous lol, but its working perfectly for what i want.

[Mike]

i think it looks class and would be class on a striped bucketed caged nova

looks? sounds and smells you mean :thumb:

i can think of a lot better ways to spend a ?1k plus, as theres no kit to my knowledge avaliable for GM engines, so youd have to nick it from the like of Impreza Turbo with it fitted or even GT4 WRC's.

You better go and get qaint with your bank manager then, your gonna need too :thumb:

[turbojolt]

yer i have heared of using nitrous for it it runs up till the turbo kicks in right

dose any one know how the system works

[Mike]

The reason for Anti-lag is, as it's name suggests, to decrease or eliminate the lag induced by a turbocharger. It is mainly used in rally where all Group A or WRC cars are turbocharged.
When you want big power out of a 2 litre engine you need a turbocharger, and the more power you want the bigger the turbocharger has to be. But a big turbocharger takes a long time to spin up and create boost pressure and that's where the ALS (Anti Lag System) comes in. Because every second a car is off boost a lot of time is lost on a rallystage.

To get rid of the lag the needs to keep spinning at full speed at all times. This includes when the throttle is closed for a gearchange, when braking for a turn and when you're a the start line ready to take off.

To keep the turbo spinning while the throttle is closed you need exhaust (lots of hot air basically) to keep turning the turbine wheel. This is how it works:
To get the ALS working you need this:


P8 ECU - Which the big-turbo Escort Cosworth already have as it was made for rally.
Pectel anti-lag babyboard - An additional module to the ECU.
Anti-lag valve - Replaces the original idle speed control valve.
Modified throttle body - The inlet and outlet ports to idle valve bored out.
Turbo with 360thrust bearing - So that it will last longer.
EGT gauge - So you know when your turbo and manifold is going to melt.
Wiring to "arm" the anti-lag and switch it off - This simply involves wiring in a switchable earth to one of the ECU pins.This goes for so-called "mild" anti-lag (see further down for info), for the real WRC stuff you need another (very expensive) turbo, exhaust manifold and a few other bits.

With the ALS installed - when you let go of the throttle, the valve that replaces the standard idle valve in a modified throttle body opens to let the air continue through. The amount of air this valve can flow is the only thing that affects anti-lag, the less the airflow, the less effect the anti-lag has. Then the ECU retards the ignition timing by 30 degrees so the fuel is ignited when the exhaust valves are open and most of the fuel is already in the exhaust manifold and turbo. That makes lots of nice and hot exhaust to spin the turbo and create boost pressure.

A small "mild" ALS valve can flow enough air to make 0psi boost pressure at idle/off throttle (rather than -25psi of vacuum), sometimes up to 7psi of boost, which makes the turbo hit full boost almost straight away when you press the throttle. The big WRC anti-lag valve can flow enough air to produce 22psi at idle (or off throttle), which makes the car have no lag at all. That will increase the driveability of the car a lot.

Unfortunately the WRC ALS puts a big strain on the turbo and exhaust, whereas with the 'mild' anti-lag setup is practically as reliable as not using an ALS at all. It will gradually burn out your silencer baffles, but all that does is make your exhaust louder.
Some people say that the fuel will cause "borewash" making the need for a rebuild all the time. But that is not the case. The amount of fuel used in anti-lag is not enough to cause any significant bore wash (unless you use ?5 budget oil), most performance cars fuel on overrun, unless they have been mapped for good emissions, not mapped like that because of reliability reasons.

Regarding the reliability of Cosworths with the mild ALS installed people have had it installed for up to three years without any problems at all even though it has been switched on at most times. The only real thing you have to be wary of with anti-lag is that Exhaust Gas Temperatures (EGT) go sky high but there's no real worry as you could be on the overrun for well over 30 seconds on 'mild' anti-lag before the EGT will get dangerously high. If EGT gets too high it could melt the exhaust and/or turbo. The engine internals will not have any problems.

For full-on WRC anti-lag the specs is as with 'mild' anti-lag but with a bigger WRC ALS valve, and a anti-lag turbo with Maram 247 shaft and turbine wheel with 7? cut-back blades, Nimonic wastegate spindle and everything nicely put together by a reputable company at around ?1800 total. You will need that as the extra stop/start shocks and extra heat would eat a standard shaft in minutes. A stainless steel exhaust manifold may be handy too as it could stand more heat than standard one.

For road use you will not need more than 'mild' anti-lag, and for track use it might be best too as you're on track at sustained periods of time and the WRC anti-lag may be too severe for those long sessions.

The ALS system won't increase the outright power of your car but it will significantly increase the power delivery - much much more low down torque since the car gets on boost a lot earlier than without the ALS.

[novabex]

See my point proven.. ^

[turbojolt]

ok thanks for that i still think its jokes to watch i might try to get my uncle to get it for his p1 or one of his multitude of cossies

and im guessing dump valves and blow offs are useless with this installed

[Philsutton]

To be honest most after market management systems come with it already built in all you have to do build the hardware side of things. We have looked long an hard at seriously doing it to mine but ive managed to resist so far, but mine is used everyday and i wnat it to last a bit longer. You will more than likely have to custom make something up your self. But saying that there are numberous ways to do it, some of which dont need an modifications bar the management, i.e. i think one way to do it is to let the injectors stil fire when you let off but not spark and then all the fuel goes through the turbo where upon it will ignite.

[Mike]

ok thanks for that i still think its jokes to watch i might try to get my uncle to get it for his p1 or one of his multitude of cossies

the above IS for cossies, however every car will be different, as Pectel dont do managment for a LET.

[Mike]

i.e. i think one way to do it is to let the injectors stil fire when you let off but not spark and then all the fuel goes through the turbo where upon it will ignite.

you can do that, altho the amount of continual fuel flow needs to be minimal, or when it ignites you'll be looking at a total loss of a turbocharger

[vaughanmc]

anti-lag is fun -- i was in a lancer evo-1 rally car with it

and from the inside i couldn't hear a thing...from the outside its loud though

[turbojolt]

what about an air injector dose that not let the turbo spin up faster

[Philsutton]

lol yep, its not as easy as people make it sound. On a more stupid note we looked at turning the turbo into a jet engine so to speak, but using a seriously massive turbo and only taking want we want to the intake and then using the thrust to push the front of the car down lmfao. Thats very simplified but we had plans drawn up but there is no way im having a jet engine on the front of my car.

[Mike]

This (http://youtube.com/watch?v=A-bnBEpWu70) is anti lag, it sounds like a dump valve, but its not.

[Mike]

what about an air injector dose that not let the turbo spin up faster

turbos spin up using exhaust gases.

[vaughanmc]

minted sound and nice car control

[turbojolt]

This (http://youtube.com/watch?v=A-bnBEpWu70) is anti lag, it sounds like a dump valve, but its not.

no mate if im not mistaken that is anti-lag and a wastegate

[Mike]

no mate if im not mistaken that is anti-lag and a wastegate

exactly, not a dump valve :roll:

[Philsutton]

i think you are mistaken as its not wastegate noise you hear its the air traveling back through the turbo blades that makes that chatter. A dump valve and wastegate do completely different jobs and arent linked.

[turbojolt]

turbos spin up using exhaust gases.

i know that mate im not a complete div :cry:
but i have hered of these thinks called air injectors that are ment to help you turbo spin up faster

[Mike]

i think you are mistaken as its not wastegate noise you hear its the air traveling back through the turbo blades that makes that chatter. A dump valve and wastegate do completely different jobs and arent linked.

beat me to it you git lol

that noise is just pure wastegate chatter/anti lag

[turbojolt]

i think you are mistaken as its not wastegate noise you hear its the air traveling back through the turbo blades that makes that chatter. A dump valve and wastegate do completely different jobs and arent linked.

is that also knowen as turbo surge

[Mike]

i know that mate im not a complete div :cry:
but i have hered of these thinks called air injectors that are ment to help you turbo spin up faster

ehh? how would they work? they would only force more air into the turbo inlet? thus putting more load on it.

[turbojolt]

ehh? how would they work? they would only force more air into the turbo inlet? thus putting more load on it.

not if you had it pointing at the exhaust side of the turbo

[Mike]

not if you had it pointing at the exhaust side of the turbo

as in using say, compressed air and exhaust gases to spin the turbo you mean??

[turbojolt]

as in using say, compressed air and exhaust gases to spin the turbo you mean??

yes would it work

[Mike]

yes would it work

only one way to find out lol

[turbojolt]

only one way to find out lol

well in theroy it works would you not say any think forcing the turbin around will get the other end goin as well there for it will start spining

[Mike]

well in theroy it works would you not say any think forcing the turbin around will get the other end goin as well there for it will start spining

in theory if i jump high enough, ill bang my head on the moon lol lol

[turbojolt]

in theory if i jump high enough, ill bang my head on the moon lol lol

yer a retards theroy lol

[Mike]

yer a retards theroy lol

you see my point though. In theory anything is possible, in reality, well its more like trial and error. Literally!

[turbojolt]

you see my point though. In theory anything is possible, in reality, well its more like trial and error. Literally!

yer i know but i would rather some one else tryed first lol


but if it would work some one would have made it by now

[Mike]

yer i know but i would rather some one else tryed first lol


but if it would work some one would have made it by now

i know exactly what you mean! rather some else then yourself lol

well, yeah i suppose. Altho the LET engine isnt really big in rally circles at all. Its not on par with YB's (as found in cossies) and the EJ (IIRC) engines of Subaru's

[Stuart]

air injectors are paired up with fuel injectors on the exhaust side to inject a metered ammounf of air and fuel into the turbo housing to get a more consistent burn to ALS.

bear in mind you either need a big stock of turbos or one with some baaaad ass shaft. in essence a total waste of time, money and people will think your a tool lol

[CP]

Why don't you just fit one of the much loved chav mods... yes the flamer kit!lol
At least that way you'll get the flames and bang without killing your turbo.

:roll:

[Lee]

Or just stick a big self tapping screw down the inlet. Will have the same effect on the impeller lol