View Full Version : Having a bit of a debate...
Ok, what are the main reasons not to take a xsara VTS on the track over a corsa xe?
Apart from the usual bull**** of "oh its french" blah blah.
The xsara is basically a 306 GTi6 same sus set up and to an extent same exhaust system. The engine is 167Brake as std and weights in at 1190Kg according to parkers.
Nobody makes a rollcage for the xsara that i can find but there must be a reason nobody takes them on the track...
someone must make a cage as they are sed for rally cars, and with a decent suspension set up and plenty of stripping i think it coud do rather well on track
Welsh Dan
05-03-07, 07:57 PM
The white flag causes too much drag lol.
On a more serious note, its heavy.
flashbang
05-03-07, 07:58 PM
I think it is because the think it is a large fat car,
Stanley
05-03-07, 08:06 PM
I reckon a stripped, caged etc etc Xsara VTS would be a very interesting sight on a track.
Just dont expect it to be reliable.....
a corsa sport 1600 is 100kg down over the xsara and thats in std form... there oisnt a lot of weight difference between the 16xe and 20xe so a stripped corsa *just interior* would be about 1000kg. I reckon that the xsara could be brought down to 1000kg so there wouldnt be a lot in the weight.
OMP make a cage, found it :D ?799 multipoint weld in cage... Absolute monster of a cage....
I reckon it will be about the same as an XE Nova/Corsa with a standard engine and interior. So fast but not super duper fast.
Obvoiusly the Nova/Corsa would have suitable suspension and breaks. Not a slung together one.
However its where you go from there. With a Nova/Corsa you have many tuning options. With the Xsara I think you will be a bit more pushed. The engine is fantasic but there isn't alot more you can do to them without taking them to bits and doing serious mods which cost money. Mind you im talking bowl-locks :tard: because any cams worth having on an XE will need pocketed pistons. Hummm. I still say go for the Nova/Corsa option. Sell the Xsara and use that money to get some TB's for the XE. All the power you will need :D
To be fair its not an easy one. I don't like the look of the Xsara and for the money spent you could make a Nova/Corsa go faster. But then if your just after a bit of fun then why not. If they handle like the 6 then you will have plenty of fun around a track.
vallanc3
05-03-07, 08:41 PM
rover metro is your best bet..if its the same engine as a pug couldnt you jus by pug tunig parts? or take it to cituning so they can do a relay bodged job of turbo'ing it
goooooooooo darrrrrrrr lol
i will get him to have a novaand forget this xsara track car non sense lol
lol Good lad Riggy. He probably just needs a good beating or something;)
This is the thing dar, as said before. Its a big toss up to be honest. To sell the xsara i need to mess about get let down etc i may get lucky and pull 1300 for it but looking on ebay xsaras dont seem to be selling. To build a half decent spec corsa it would cost about 1300.
The brakes are 260mm on the xsara so no need to replace, Just change disks and pads. The 306 has the same engine as you know, so a 306 coilover set up from avo would be well matched to the weight.
Granted the xsara isnt the best looker, but neither is a corsa or a nova its just a bit of fun than anything.
The gremlin thing you said did put me off, but there was a point when i knew nothing about xe's and novas etc.
There are an absolute load of pro's and cons... the biggest is the fact the car has been designed to have the 167 brake engine and handles pretty well in std form im not having to fanny about with shafts and conversion parts but if it breaks it will be a little more expensive to replace, but i have a mate at euro car parts so maybe not. The weight is another big factor as its a big car.
Im waiting for Riggy to knock some sence in to you and then if you still want to keep the Xsara, then I say keep it. How dare you say a Nova is not a looker!!!:eek: I do agree with you though its a tough choice, esp if all your after is a bit of fun around the track. Keeping the Xsara would present alot less hassle, plus its fun ripping out the interiors.
yeah it is indeed. Riggy keeps ignoring me on the situation. He calls me gay so i might piss him off and just strip this bugger stick my seat and harness into it and see what it feels like and if i have the confidence in the car. I know for a fact it wont be as quick as a valver nova around a track if its well driven but i've wanted a bit of track action for years and years and years and its really annoying me now!
ANDYRACER
05-03-07, 09:00 PM
Id be very tempted to track for xsara, but then again im not stupid enough to waste money on a ****roen. :roll:
sorry guys, I am going to have to say the opposite to most people here.
I would go for the xsara. One of my best mates has just built up a 306 rallye for track. Minimal mods (compared with prep'ing a nova/corsa for track) and its awsome.
Decent first mods for the 306/xsara are:
Bushes
Large rear anti-roll bar
Coilovers (or just decent fixed rate H&R/Bilstein etc)
Brake setup
and stripping.
They will share the same parts as the 306 and if anything like the 306 will handle awesome as stock. Loads of 306 basic tuning parts floating around, you just need to know where to look.
And from what I can tell from my mates rallye is that the engines are awesome, decent economy and rev like chuff.
Discuss.....
yup my thoughts exaclty chris... it shouldnt really be much difference to the 306 at all and like you say the engine came as standard as opposed to bodging bits from other vauxhalls.
I think it needs to be done and proven...
only down side with the xsara is the 5-speed as opposed to the 6-speed.
Also they love to cock up a wheel.
This video is from a standard engined rallye with AP brakes, coilovers, stripped and caged with A048's. Enjoy.....
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4343055666866405289&q=306+nurburgring
Ouhhhh you big gay bear...
That goes pretty well
I love my GTI-6 and the origonal plan was to put it on the track once I had paid for it. But I still reckon that pound for pound a Nova or Corsa would make a faster car. However a Nova would be ALOT more work. Im not saying that the ultimate Nova would be faster than the ultimate 6 but rather that a 2-3k Nova would be faster when including the inital cost of the car.
If it was me I would still go for the Nova. I have both and really do adore both cars (Gti-6 not Xsara). The Nova will have a significant weight advantage since they are smaller. However the Xsara IS the better standard car.
The engines are awsome and sound the mutts nuts when reved. The head is a work of art as well as the exhaust manifold.
EDIT: Cracking Vid Chris:thumb:
its all about fun tho i guess, so as long as it brings Smiles its all goood...
Agree with all the above but must add...
The 306/xsara is a much better handling car as stock. My mates which is modified is far better than my nova.
Also the 306 is very forgiving, so for someone who has never been on track before......
Chris
Oh and ? to power on a nova conversion... you deffo cant beat it at all. But not many people have a xsara VTS sat doing nothing on the drive lol.
Since your not really intrested in how fast you ultimatley go. The Xsara does make more sence, also its less work. As Chris says its also going to be more forgiving. I honestly believe that my Nova handles as well as any FWD car out on the track, but its twitchier at the limit than something thats been built with the engine that sits in the front, instead of a conversion (although I reckon 205's are an exception, buts thats another story). If the Xsara handles like the 6 then if you get out of shape they come back very gracefuly, you can also provoke a bit of oversteer if you like.
I've only ever really thrashed the nuts off of the 6 once and it felt planted and very fast. They do handle very well indeed.
french riggy
06-03-07, 07:10 PM
you drive like a girl anyway so the corsa will be just fine:thumb:
i say if its just for a laugh and you dont want much hassle use the xsara, whats to stop you building anova/corsa ready for next year ??
Here comes my twopenneth worth!
I wont go over whats already been said as its a waste of time, but theres an interesting thought... go shopping for a GTi 6 engine and box. Im sure it wont be hard to find a stacked one, i bet one ends up hedged every week. Try the GTi6/Rallye forum as well. At a guess (knowing nothing about french crap out of principal lol) it should go in with minimal hassle, you then have what i would imagine would be a belter of a car, and have an amount of novelty value with the 6 conversion. You also have the bigger block to build any mods onto, and the shexual gearbox. The 'charger conversion looks interesting too!
Bear in mind just stripping it out will make the back end hoist up, so coilovers, as chris mentioned, have to be on the shopping list, i would say his other suggestions can be added as and when you have the money.
Also please ignore anything i wrote above, as I should have told you to set fire to the piece of french sh1te lol
if you stuff it, which will be cheaper to reshell though
Bottlethroddy - zip it!
Stacked GTI-6's are not that common. Althought the people on the GTI-6/Rallye forum seem to think that they are the ultimate weapon on the road(they ain't) they don't get crashed that often because they handle quite well and are not generally driven by idiots(There are exceptions but they seem to be lucky).
I also know that from talking to me you know more than most about the GTI-6(So don't plead ignorance). However the reason the Xsara is such a good car is that it IS the same engine that they put in the 6, pillock! They just forgot to keep the box. Someone should sack the bloke who made that decision.
The supercharger conversion is a peach. Its what I wanted to do to mine before I got the Nova.
Also please ignore anything i wrote above, as I should have told you to set fire to the piece of french sh1te
I like that line because you talked ****e most of that post. So it was good advice. However it should have read "Also please ignore anything i write". Viva La France!!!:D
bigbened
10-03-07, 01:05 AM
simple thing, novas are cheap and easy to put a big engine in and handle like its on rails. what more do you want !
plus thay look the bollocks and are built sound
they don't get crashed that often because they handle quite well and are not generally driven by idiots(There are exceptions but they seem to be lucky).
I've been on Pug Run, I've seen how them lot drive lol
And yes, someone did crash last time we went :D
I've been on Pug Run, I've seen how them lot drive lol
And yes, someone did crash last time we went :D
There the idiots I was talking about:thumb: shhh, its try to pick on BT because he dosen't like French cars time.
Bottlethroddy - zip it!
Stacked GTI-6's are not that common. Althought the people on the GTI-6/Rallye forum seem to think that they are the ultimate weapon on the road(they ain't) they don't get crashed that often because they handle quite well and are not generally driven by idiots(There are exceptions but they seem to be lucky).
I also know that from talking to me you know more than most about the GTI-6(So don't plead ignorance). However the reason the Xsara is such a good car is that it IS the same engine that they put in the 6, pillock! They just forgot to keep the box. Someone should sack the bloke who made that decision.
The supercharger conversion is a peach. Its what I wanted to do to mine before I got the Nova.
I like that line because you talked ****e most of that post. So it was good advice. However it should have read "Also please ignore anything i write". Viva La France!!!:D
From talking to you i know more than most about the GTi6?? Are you on crack? You spend most of your time trying to convince me that the glovebox wont fall on my lap lol I pride myself in knowing next to nothing about it, in fact all I know is from being sat in it with you driving (as im sure your worried that it will break if i drive it by going over 30mph lol). Therfore, I have only these opinions about it..
The gearbox ratio's are porn!
It veers towards oversteer, which is awesome, and very rare on a standard FWD road car.
It goes very well.
But its french, and for me that outweighs all those attributes for me, as it was probably built using chewing gum and spit. :thumb:
Therefore, I couldnt care less that i didnt know the xsara has the same engine as the 6, infact im quite chuffed i got that wrong lol Ive said it before and ill say it again, i dont need a reason to hate french cars, I just do, same as I hate marmite lol
But at the same time i would be a fool to ignore the above facts, and how much of a tool it would be on a track, so i tried being positive about it, and believe me, it was hard!! lol lol
lol That must have hurt saying some nice things about a French car. So big respekt!! :D
However, and im sure your doing this on purpose. GTI-6 & Glovebox? don't you mean....well I suppose you could fit a pair of gloves in there. Just one though. Im not trying to convince you about anything. Im trying to stop you putting yer knees on my dash and making the damn thing dirty!
Anyway, you said nice things so :thumb:
scott.parker
10-03-07, 02:38 PM
Well from owning a few french cars i can say that my 205D van was ace R.I.P, and the Ren19 was a right DT rocket and handled realy well..
As for this case though i would say do the xsara and you can always do the other at later date,i know i would as it makes sence. BUT look out for ****y wireing electics is **** in french cars..
Scott
Well its started anyways :D Xsara was stripped out today Bucket seat to be put in next weekend as i'm going to get it Re-mot'd so the emissions etc are sound before i de-cat the bugger and get a slightly better exhaust system I'm going shopping for brakes and pads tonight as for the suspension, im leaving it std for now until i get a feel for the car and learn how to drive it properly. Then i'll upgrade to a set of coilovers same goes for tyres.
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