C20XE v's C16SE concensus?

[Mike]

General concensus, XE engined stripped out nova v's GSi engined stripped out nova

What i want to know is, generally, what is more fun to own/drive. General power to weight, drivability etc

Cost dont really matter tbh, as either will be converted over the space of 4months+ as im in no rush :D

I can do either at the minute, but the small block is going. Both require a change of fuel tank, XE will require bigger brakes, BUT ive already got a set of Chris Astley XE mounts here with me and a GSi rad is already in use.

And please, no chavved up replies stating that your XE will keep up with skylines and the like ;)

[Philsutton]

Id go for the big block every time, alot more fun. Oh an also most xe's will keep with a skyline, just because its a skyline doesnt mean its un beatable. They have their povety spec range as well lol

[Mike]

Id go for the big block every time, alot more fun. Oh an also most xe's will keep with a skyline, just because its a skyline doesnt mean its un beatable. They have their povety spec range as well lol

I know lmfoa! i was taking the pish hahahhahaaa

but why do you go for the big block everytime, thats what i want to know!

[Welsh Dan]

Bigger is better, ask any female lol.

[draper]

but everyone knows big blocks dont handle



































watches the comotion (sp)

[Mike]

right, just downloaded the guide on XE fitting from valvers.com and along with some other info ive got here, its easier then i prevoiusly though tbh

well, i say easy lol but i know stuff will always go wrong lol

and thank you draper for your input, but thats not what this thread is/was about lol

[london_chris]

here we go, a fair few pages of persuasions and swearing to follow lol to be honest im keen on knowing really if they do handle or not but owning a 16v fiesta xr2i in the past and that had a big engine and handled fine

[draper]

thought id draw first blood tho ;)

XEs are pretty easy to get, easy enough to fit and offer 150 out the box (give or take a few ponies), even a shagged XE will still be pretty powerful

[Mike]

the only issue i have really, is all that front end weight? Does that not cause any problems?? As in under heavy braking front's lock up? Understeer? Mega Heavy steering? etc etc

[draper]

i didnt think it was that noticeable tbh altho i only had my old one 4months i think the fact it handled badly was the fact it had springs and standard dampers and chicken-shop tyres

[srs1]

if you get coil overs and 300lb rated springs for your xe'd nova, it will handle fine. as in most cases, more money you put into these area's you are bound to get a better set up.

i ran some crap under rated springs on g-max suspension and lets say, under braking the car nose dived and scraped my splitter. change of suspension and handling improved miles, now i'm on coilovers but no xe. but have been in 2 nova's with coilovers and xe's and they handle pretty well.

do bear in mind, you have to learn hos to drive your car and not except this is better.

fun wise, they are great. straight out power and non of this messing around trying to get head work, cams etc etc etc. but its all down to each persons own choice

[Dan]

this is purely a personal preference thing that noone can answer for you. This thread will quickly destroy itself into the normal battle and end up locked imo.

Those of us that run the baby 8v sometimes have genuine reasons other than 'being different'.

My personal reason for staying 1.6 8v run from the fact i have actually had this engine for ten years, i took it through 60k miles of my driving when it was within the orange nova it originally came in and always promised myself i would make it special somehow (much to alot of banter and abuse).

After i took it from the orange car i rebuilt it to be a sub 15 car in a gte shell that was track happy (at the time the fastest 1.6 8v's were mc and cp running 15.1's), then in its third reincarnation it was fitted in a reshell with track in mind, and just happened to get quicker again from the method i chose shell wise and not touching the engine.

As for the rest, it idles like a kitten, pulls in any gear at any speed (15mph in 5th clean through to limiter), has approx 200bhp/ton and can annoy bigger cars which always looks good when people ask to see under the bonnet lol Fuel economy i get average 35mpg on the road and anything down to 25mpg on track. Reliability wise i went 3 years without a tune to find i had lost nothing, and after just stripping the engine to see what the last 50k has done i have found that the engine has been burning perfectly (still read the stamp marks in the pistons with a gentle wipe of a rag) and there has been no wear at all in the bottom end. Only things to change are the followers and the valve stem seals (as old as the blyd head i fitted when i first got the engine lol)

I know that all reads to good to be true, but people know what its like performance wise on track and the qtr for what is basically a measly 140bhp, basic chassis build, and others have followed my r/r mission and seen the pics of the stripped engine and been as suprised as myself

The 8v for me was/is more fun, and along the way i have hopefully helped raise the bar amongst our ranks and maybe shown a different route to the common option

That prob reads a load of nonsense but as stu would say meh :p

[SRimon]

its true

if you want a straight line rag machine put in a 2.0

if you want to be nimble and enjoy b roads dont

[Adam]

the only issue i have really, is all that front end weight? Does that not cause any problems?? As in under heavy braking front's lock up? Understeer? Mega Heavy steering? etc etc
All that front end weight?

A xe weighs 20kg more than a small block, and thats not a guess, a mate has weighed one as well as a small block 8v.
Get some good suspension and it will be fine.

Tbh, if you just want a reliable quick daily driver get a xe.
If you have cash to spend, and can justify never getting back what you spend get/mod a 8v.

[Lee]

Seeing as Dan has done such a good job sticking up for the 8v, ill have a stab at supporting the big block. Firstly, ignore Dans MPG figure, his engine is basically a freak, i dont care what anyone says, you wont get another 1.6 to behave like his without some pixie dust lol lol. Joking aside, in your case where you want a fun car for the road with maybe a bit of track use, dont discount the XE as an option. How many times have you heard people say 'the XE has been done to death, XE novas are common as muck' etc.. etc.. Why is this?? Maybe it has something to do with them being good??

But as previously stated, you have to spend some money on the chassis otherwise youll just be another bloke who's built a blamange XE that helps fuel the rumour that they wont handle for sh1t!

So here you have to make your decision. Do you throw notage at the baby 8v and still end up having to spend some money on suspension mods due to Novas being blessed with next to useless standard setups? Or do you fit an XE and use the money you saved on tuning to make the chassis even better? I believe with the same wedge of money in your hand, you can build an XE to handle the same as a small block and go better. Fact! yes, I admit that as budgets get better, choosing what to do becomes more tricky, but even in these terms, look up how much it costs to give a 20XE 200bhp, then look up how much it costs to do the same to a 16XE! And then look at the torque figures! Still no contest in my eyes.

And lets leave any Dan / Dar video examples out of it, as driver ability / tyre choice have no bearing in the arguement of what the best choice is for a budget fast road car. But a choice it is, and as Stu has said in the past, only you can make the desision, and Im sure we all agree that however you make the nova quicker, it'll be fun to drive.

[philthepill_389]

solve your problem put a c16xe corsa gsi on r1 TB or a good set of carbs still light, handle like a 1.6 8v, and fookin quick

i have a 1.6 8v moded :) gsi and pist on a few big block valvers not all i add here because 1 they spin alot 2 just cant carry speed into corner. but sadly in a straight line all i smell is xe dust :(

[Dar]

I say don't bother doing a Nova if your worried about handling just go out and but a Integra Type-R and be done with it.
To be honest im fed up of people saying a 2l dosen't handle because your talking utter ****e. My advice in this area is go for a small block or 'be different' and put in a hampster:thumb:
Don't go for an elephant though. They have good power but are way to heavylol

And after that just read BT's & Dan's posts again. They are two people who know what they are talking about and cover the subject well enough I think. At the end of the day its up to you to make a choice.

[Stuart]

have to say i drove seans car when it was on the gmax kit etc, it was possibly the most fun ive had in a car as it was just pure comedy with the understeer, nosediving etc. BUT as said that was a "bad" setup..... then jump into a valvered nova with proper suspension (and maybe a diff) and your sorted for a really good car.

Like with all cars, if you build it badly/cheaply it will suck ass, if you build it right and learn to drive it, it will rock... Lots of people claim that VX220's have a snappy **** and will put you in the ditch, Ive not noticed that at all, if anything its too neutral for my liking. Just goes to show how handling etc is a very personal thing.

with good front springs, the "extra weight" will help you brake as its more weight on the tyres increasing the "grip"

[ANDYRACER]

All that front end weight?

A xe weighs 20kg more than a small block, and thats not a guess, a mate has weighed one as well as a small block 8v.
Get some good suspension and it will be fine.

Tbh, if you just want a reliable quick daily driver get a xe.
If you have cash to spend, and can justify never getting back what you spend get/mod a 8v.

My understanding was nothing to do with weight, it was the fact that the xe sat further forward in the bay and caused the understeer. :confused: