Bottom end mods

[tom_beverley]

Hi,

I've got my 1400 block stripped down and just checking whilst it in bits whether anyone with a bit more know how than me recommends anything I have missed off the list

Here goes:

Crank grind
1.0mm overbore with C14SE 1.0mm oversize pistons
???Not sure what to do with the rods???
Heavy Duty Mains
Heavy Duty Big Ends
ARP Bolts
New Water Pump
New Oil pump
New gaskets and seals

I'm getting everything (inc flywheel) L+B, but want to keep costs to a minimum so I'm rebuilding the block myself as much as possible, but obviously engineering firm will have to assemble a bit to balance it properly.

Anything else, modify oil pickup, think I read somewhere about oil jets, can that be done to 1400 8v?

Help is appreciated :thumb:

[Adam]

Std oil pump will be fine.
As will std rods if your not going for mega revs.


Hmm, it says in haynes, max permissable overbore-0.5m....?

[tom_beverley]

Thought so myself, but I've been told that 1.0mm is the safe maximum.

Also to add to the above, can anyone recommend the best clutch to use for an F13?

Also is it better to use the GTE/GSi rocker cover as there is a breather outlet?

[Geth]

Hmm, it says in haynes, max permissable overbore-0.5m....?

ignore that, what they are basically saying you can go up to 0.5mm without it being classed as a mod, +1mm is fine.

[Adam]

If your cam housing has a breather inlet, then use a gte/gsi rocker cover.
Best clutch as in last long? Performance?

Std gm one will no doubt be fine..

[Adam]

ignore that, what they are basically saying you can go up to 0.5mm without it being classed as a mod, +1mm is fine.
Ahh right.
Didn't know that :)

[chimp007_uk]

balance the rods, and de-seem them...?!?

i've got some equations that i've been doing for a recent assignment calculating the safety factor of conrods. was calculating it for a jag v8, an the safety factor was fine even over-revving it by 1000rpm. the pistons are made by marle as well...

[tom_beverley]

Didn't know how far to go with the rods e.g. shot peen them, was quoted ?200 so was wondering if its worth it?

I'd want a balance between performance and life, is anyone running an EBC, Black Diamond, Helix and have any pros and cons?

My 1400SR rocker cover is flat and the GTE/GSi ones are different and have a breather outlet, is this of any benefit?

Thanks :cool:

[Adam]

Well, fit the cam housing has a breather hose then the rocker cover needs a breather output..
Flat rocker covers are fitted on models without a breather connection on the cam housing.

What final engine CC are you aiming for? Thought about starting with a 1600 block and modding that?

[tom_beverley]

Yeah, thought about going for 1.6 16v but I've had a disqualification and I'm paying ?700 TPFT on the 1.4 so until Jul '08 when it dissappears off my licence I'm sticking with the 1400 as its quick enough for me (for now anyway!)

Haven't worked out what the final cc will be, but anywhere near 1500 is good enough.

Plus it should sell on better with it refurbed and upgraded.

[Adam]

When you mention to the insurers a re-bore to 1500cc the insurance might go up to about 1.6 level anyway..


Edit-
A 1mm bore will give 1425cc

[tom reid]

Don't buy an oil pump just yet, you can get a kit to rebuild your own pump, could also modify your pressure relief valve.
Make sure you send a new pressure plate and your front pulley with other bits to get them balanced as well.
Balance pistons and rods, may seem overkill for a road engine, but you will notice that the engine is smoother and pulls/revs better.
Could lighten flywheel, but if the engine is for the road, best to leave it standard weight, just balance it.
I would leave the breathing as standard, just clean out oil/air seperator, again assuming it a road engine.
Do you have a steel sump, could modify that to reduce lilelyhood of oil starvation.

[tom_beverley]

1425cc, thats it??? :(

Tom,

Can you explain further on the pressure relief valve mod, sump mod. Where can I get the oil pump rebuild kits from?

Its going to be used as a road car, will track it a few times and take it for a few 1/4's.

[Adam]

1425cc, thats it??? :(

According to Stu's site it is yeah.

[tom_beverley]

Thought it would be more than that :(

[Adam]

You would need a 2mm bore to get exactly 1498cc, with std stroke length.

[tom reid]

I do the mod to the pressure relief valve and the sump, I can also supply the kit for the oil pump.
PM me for details.

[CP]

You don't actually have to go to as much trouble and expense as you are planning. Really unless you are running big revs/greatly increased cr/using it for competition use you can get away without all that.

You will never re-coup anything like the cost of it all when you sell it on

[LUV2XLR8]

im looking in to the same thing, i want to rebuild my 1.4 bottom end, im fitting a 1.4 sri head thats p&p with a 320 deg cam, would a standard bottom end manage that ok?

[Adam]

I would just fit ARP rod bolts, and leave it at that tbh.
As long as the engine is in good condition start off with.

Thats probably just me being tight tho lol

[LUV2XLR8]

cool, do i have to take the pistons/rods out to fit the bolts, or just remove the sump?

[Adam]

Just remove sump.
Remove the caps, countersink them.
Re-fit with arps.

[LUV2XLR8]

cool, sorry for high jacking the thread :D

[tom_beverley]

I just fancy spending a bit of money (within reason) on the engine and really making it strong and reliable. I am thinking of using it on track days and so I don't want to keep upgrading things if I can do it all now, if that makes sense! And I realise I wouldn't recoup half of my money when selling it on!

Was looking in my Haynes book and noticed that all the c16se has a much larger stroke over the 1400. It suggests that all main and big end journals are the same in all the 8v blocks and if this is the case wouldn't a c16se crank fit in this block? Along with the 1.0mm overbore I would nearly be at 1598cc anyway and could get the pistons modded to keep an acceptable CR.

[Adam]

I know you said you want to keep with that engine, but to me it just seems the sensible option to find a 1600 block/crank/pistons....?

[tom_beverley]

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. :)

Would be a different though and worth a bit more hassle!

[tom reid]

Tom
If you want more torque/power with a 1400, you can do it without going to the measures your proposing.
Long Live The Nova is right, just go 1600 instead.
Use 1400/16v bottom end, modify pistons/crank and a few other mods to head/cams and your'e there, good BHP/torque and it's reliable.

[Jon_nova1]

i think stroking the engine is a good idea if it works?? as for boring it, clearly theres no point, your gaining 0.25L?

you cant beat a small block build, why are you just doing the bottom end though?? you can get a 1.2 head with a 1.3 inlet and 1.4 carb (if yours is running on carb)

[tom_beverley]

I'm already running T40's and a 1200 Blydenstein B+ head.

My head has 36mm inlet and 31mm exhaust, what do 1600 heads have?

Changing crank to get more stroke seems like a good idea to me too, if its possible but I havent seen anything on the subject on here before (nor can I find it to get some info!)

[tom reid]

Believe me, it's been tried!

[Adam]

My head has 36mm inlet and 31mm exhaust, what do 1600 heads have?

35mm inlet, 32mm out

[tom_beverley]

Is it possible though and what work is involved?

[Jon_nova1]

are there pistons or rods that are shorter to compensate for the extra crankshaft travel?

[tom_beverley]

Has anyone tried doing this and can shed any light?

Really need to know about this so if anyone has any info, it would be helpful!