Serious issues with automatic renewal.

[craig green]

Adrian Flux have taken it upon themselves to begin automatic renewal on my previous policy which expired in October on my old car (which I still own).

However as the quote for the new policy was far too expensive & I'd had enough of the terrible customer service & phone lines etc Ive changed policies along with the new car.

Anyhow, my old direct debit details (bank account) is now closed & because of this I figured they wouldnt be able to begin a new policy. Well 4 weeks in, I received a certificate for the cover & upon returning the documents after a phone call I am now owing them ?159 for 4 weeks cover & the cancellation fee. The 12 month policy was ?480 IIRC on a K reg 1.2 SPi. I am 28yrs old btw, so as you can tell, its simply not competitive. (my new policy is ?286 on a car 2 groups higher).

So the point of this query is..... failure to pay has now resulted in them threatening me with a debt collector & the subsequent fee for them too.

Any gen on where I stand?

I didnt consent in them beginning a 2nd yrs policy or to take payment.

They will back date the penalty if I have SORN proof for the old car, it was left taxed & is still in my posession. Or if the new policy started on a concurrent date, it didnt as I bought the new car some time later.

Basically Adrian Flux are shafting me for ?159 of services I didnt request.

[Matt2107]

I think that as long as there isn't any small print saying that you've agreed to automatic renewal you should be ok.

I have an automatic renewal with Direct Line and you get a letter 10 days before the policy is renewed saying that if I do not notify them then it will renew.

By closing the direct debit this is notification that you wanted to end the policy. Therefore you could claim that you sent a letter to them upon doing this. If needs be then generate a false letter that has a date just before you closed the direct debit and claim its a copy.

[Matt2107]

Just to add... course of action would probably be the following.

Write a nice letter stating that you have never received notification that the policy will be automatically renewed.

Also throw in there your experiences of the crap service you have received.

Include a copy of a letter you wrote to them regarding cancellation of your direct debit. Make sure when you write the letter that you add in there a sentence saying the following... "I will assume that the policy has been cancelled if I do not hear from you by (insert a date 7-14 days from the date of the letter)" Please contact me if there are any queries regarding this."

[Jack]

As soon as I saw the title I thought this would be about Flux lol

Few of my friends, and my sister, have been caught out on this one. Did they write to you or contact you to say they were going to continue the cover? Might be in the really really small print (friend of mine had a letter saying 'this is your renewal cost', but in the small print it said 'to renew, do nothing, we'll take the cash automatically unless you say otherwise').

I should imagine if you told them beforehand that you didn't want to renew they can't try and shaft you. Also might be worth looking through the original direct debit paperwork - if it says on there you are only due to make 12 payments (or however many) then thats the contract you've signed up for; they can't then extend this without you signing up to a new direct debit agreement.

A lot of companies do automatic renewal - Admiral did to me last year, but wrote to me well in advance and make it clear that if I wished to cancel then I had to call them. This year I'm with Churchill, ending at the beginning of Feb; so far their customer service has been top class, so we'll see how they handle renewal!

[womble sri]

I think that as long as there isn't any small print saying that you've agreed to automatic renewal you should be ok.

I have an automatic renewal with Direct Line and you get a letter 10 days before the policy is renewed saying that if I do not notify them then it will renew..

not sure where you stang legally but i know i had to cancel my policy before they automatically renewed it with CIS. check the print on the original policy it might state they need notice of cancelling your policy. you said there customer services is ****e but they should of sent you a letter to confirm or offering a discount which im sure they normally do. but perhaps your premium hadnt changed and therfore they didnt see the need. anyway good luck against those thieving *******s i hate insurance companys still waiting for a claim to go through 6 months ago!

[craig green]

Trouble is... in their letter that arrives a few weeks before the end of th epolicy it shows a renewal quote & says that it will restart & they will take payment if they dont hear from me etc.

My argumaent is that I assumed the bank details being invalid would halt these proceedings, the fact it took them a month to get ontop of it is somewhat disturbing. They also insist that up until that point I was insured & was 'time on risk' by my insurer & thats why the fee is due. Add that to the cancellation fee & they want ?159 for 30 days cover when the 12 month poilicy was ?480. It just doesnt add up.

I guess it was clear to me that I had to contact them to cease the auto-renewal but I just cannot beleive that they can simply generate revenue like this legally.

They are saying I must provide a SORN notice for the car from the date the old policy expired, in order to quash the policy fee, surely I dont have to SORN my car for anyones sake but my own? I had a brainwave & thought the expired MOT certificate would be adequate proof (expired day before insurance) but conveniently for them, this is not sufficient proof.

[Matt2107]

Trouble is... in their letter that arrives a few weeks before the end of th epolicy it shows a renewal quote & says that it will restart & they will take payment if they dont hear from me etc.



I think because you didnt notify them your screwed.

I make it ?39.45 plus cancellation fee but they may want to charge you interest.

Have you admitted on the phone that you didnt cancel in writing or by calling?

I would try to claim that you sent a letter and see where they stand.
If your difficult enough they may let it slip... this works the other way if they are charging you interest though!

I think you might have to write it off as a bad experience and do your best to make anyone you ever meet aware that FLUX suck.

[Matt2107]

Incidently... is there anything written down about a cancellation fee.
It would normally be a percentage of the whole policy.

[craig green]

Tbh I cant be bothered to search for something I have likely chucked out. I moved house in the summer & lost the V5 for said car so I dont like my chances of having a derogatory envelope full of junk mail from Adrian Sucks.

I kind of accept that I am in the wrong & should have notified them verbally as soon as I knew I wouldnt require renewed cover, but I find it overwhelmingly indecent of them to exploit my savings in this way.

Anyway. After a couple emails to them (thats another story)..
Ive just received a revised, good will discount from them.

Quote: Flux representative.
Dear Mr Green,


We have received your recent email and would be obliged if you could
note the following:
Due to your policy being renewed three days before your renewal date and
the certificate of insurance sent to you on the 11.10.2006, therefore
you had your certificate for the renewal, we are unable to do anything
regarding the cancellation date.
As a gesture of good will on our part we are able to reduce your
outstanding premium to ?109.81, this is due to refunding your
administration fee and set up fee totalling ?50.00.
We hope this helps,
Kind regards,

unquote.

This was their reply, after I sent this last email at 12:37

How exactly do you justify the extortion of a regular customer that has
been a policy holder with yourselves for many years?

I do not have to provide a receipt of sale or SORN to anyone, for anything
regarding my vehicle.

I did not purchase any more than 12 months cover from yourselves in Oct
2005.

I did not consent to yourselves (or your company dealing with bank charges)
to take further funds from my Bank. Further to this matter, as the bank
details you have from 2005 are no longer valid, how is it possible that you
can raise insurance cover when the policy was not paid for?

You (Adrian Flux) did not to inform me of the failed payment transaction.
If you had done so, this matter would not have proceeded for the length of
time it had.

Insurance renewal is not a privelege I asked for. There was no 'time on
risk' whilst my vehicle is disused. The car in question is currently laid
up in a garage & is unroadworthy & being broken for parts at my convenience.

I will agree to paying a maximum fee of ?25 to cover your admin fee's, which
I feel is more than generous considering your company is known for its over
inflated admin fees within the industry. As far as I am concerned there has
only been some 'button pushing' on your behalf & I will not be used as a
scapegoat in order to generate additional revenue from previous customers.

CG

unquote.

I have now attempted to negotiate it down to ?100 reluctantly.

[craig green]

So reading through that lot, it would seem they ahve admitted to beginning a policy for me 3 days prior to the old one ending.....

The other story I mentioned was in their letters it states to 'not hesitate to contact them' etc if I have any queries.
As they are such a nightmare to call anyway I figured I'd email them. I used the address at the top of all the letters & correspondence they send. No reply (it didnt bounce back), so I get more letters & after some chatting on MIG with someone who came unstuck with them I got another email addy for a particular employee I was told was helpfull. Again no reply.

Whole operation is a joke IMO.

If anyone ever wants to ask my opinion of what I think of Adrian flux please dont hesitate to ask me....

[Jack]

Flux are being hammered by car forums all across the net at the moment, they're somewhat unpopular!

Might be worth trying to find out if anybody else has recently taken out a policy with them, and get them to check the paperwork to see if there's anything about automatic renewal. You could argue that you never signed up for it when you took out the policy, and they're in breach of contract...

Cancelling the direct debit was probably a bad move really, if they'd taken the money from your account without your consent then you could instruct your bank to take the money back from them.

You could also argue you never received a letter from them about a new policy... hmmmm... How long did it take them to send you the new policy documents?

[craig green]

I didnt cancel the direct debit... the account was closed down back in June.

Anyway.. Just got this email..

Dear Mr Green,


We have received your recent email and can confirm the following:
Please be advised we have now reduced your outstanding balance to
?100.00, please be advised this will not be reduced any further and we
await payment for this full amount.
Kind regards,


Thanks,

Adrian Flux Insurance Services.

LOL
I'll pay it, if it means I avoid debt collectors.

I think I wont be the first to be conned like this, its an awesome way to generate revenue for them.
The funniest thing was, when I received my certificate, there was someone elses certificate & proposal in with mine. Some dude insuring an American vehicle.
Wonder how much grief he's had?

[Matt2107]

lol... I reckon you've done alright there.

Although the way they've gone about it is quite immoral.

[Jack]

I think I wont be the first to be conned like this, its an awesome way to generate revenue for them.
Oh believe me you're not, I know a lot of other people have been as well!!

Still think you should fight it, but I'm just a stubborn git :D

[craig green]

I'm just not getting the feeling fighting it will help me.......

Ive saved ?60, theres some joy in that! Feeling rather flush at the mo so best to let it go & do my upmost to slate them forever & ever.

There bad I guess.