View Full Version : 4x4 set-up on a nova
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 10:52 AM
hello, haven't been in here for a while, a few months ago i had my nova nearly finished,my black 1.6 16v she was beautiful! but three months after the paint job some idiot decided to pour paint stripper all over :mad:
so now iv stripped it to a shell and im re-diong the whole thing with a let engine, hopefully ready next year (end of). i was wondering what i need for the read axle to put driveshafts in the hubs,shocks ect.
I will post some pics up before, painted, and as she sits now.
many thanks, Rob.
Its not just a case of slapping shafts in the hubs! From what ive seen discussed the easiest way is to chop down a cally floor pan and install that. Bear in mind loads of people have stated theyre building one but weve never ever seen a finished article.
Closest thing ive seen is an Astra MK2 with a cally floor pan, and the guy was seriously talented in the fabrication area!
the easisest way id imagine of doing it would be a cavvy floor pan and running gear tbh
Rick Draper
31-12-06, 02:41 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v444/RickDraper/not_this_again.jpg
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 02:44 PM
can i not convert my axle?
H15 NVA
31-12-06, 03:02 PM
ive got a f20 4x4 5speed box and trans box if ya interested? from low milage cally. ?200
can i not convert my axle?
Thing is pal, you need a rear Diff, which aint going to fit on the beam! In which case you need the rear suspension to be independent, which means using cally / cavalier items, which cant be mounted to a Nova floorpan, hense why you need a calibra/cav floorpan instead.
If it was easy, we'd be flooded with them, but there isnt one that i know of bar jobbies with engines in the back.
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 03:14 PM
i cant do or buy anything till i get my new job ,if i get it that is, for now i need to know what i need to convert.
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 03:17 PM
so cavvy rear, cut floor pan out and weld said floor pan too said nova? so then i have to make new mounts for rear dampers? or mod? or what?
Unfortunately, thats not a question that can be answered, as its a big fabrication job that you just have to buy for as you build.
Basically, a calibra 4x4 will provide you with what you need parts wise, then you need welding and fabrication skills! its not a kit you can buy off the shelf.
so cavvy rear, cut floor pan out and weld said floor pan too said nova? so then i have to make new mounts for rear dampers? or mod? or what?
you make it sound so easy lol
lee coley
31-12-06, 03:21 PM
its never been done (i dont think so anyway) so your on your own.
www.mkengineering.co.uk (http://www.mkengineering.co.uk) have done a fiesta using a space frame.
i cant do or buy anything till i get my new job ,if i get it that is, for now i need to know what i need to convert.
As already said mate it aint bolt on **** - it's serious (pointless?) fabrication, using other 4WD vaux running gear, and do you really have it in you to chop out the whole back end of your Nova, then fab in a new one, make a prop tunnel etc etc etc
Search for 4WD Nova's - build progress - then see what it entails!
My mate converted a P10 primera already running gti-r engine, and independent rear suspension to 4wd sunny/pulsar setup and he had to chop out the whole rear floor pan make a prop tunnel etc etc, some awesome fabrication in the end, but he said it was a pointless ball ache tbh!
yea but u'll need to either widen you nova or shorten the driveshafts and propshaft as cav's are hell of alot wider and longer than the nova!
plus u'll need to have the cav floorpan all the way along or make a custom transmission tunnel to house the transfer box, propshaft and exhaust!
and i think u'll have a bit of troule fitting a c20let, 6speed box and transfer box all in the engine bay!
plus transfer boxes are weak enough in the cavs meaning you cant lower them and adjust the angles, so probley wont last 5mins if they're all twisted mounted in a nova!
you'll be a hereo if you do succeed but i cant see it myself!
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 03:27 PM
luckly im a good welder then. and i also know a few engineers, tanks for the info guys, thats the first step done,anyone know where i can get a prop tunnel from?
You have to make everything :wall: So any old trollop 'll do i imagine
anyone know where i can get a prop tunnel from?
by ur questions mate i think this project is a bit out of your league! lol
the whole thing will be one off frabication, you cant pop to halford to get a prop tunnel!
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 03:30 PM
i know you can buy prop tunnels, jst dont know where
You have to make everything :wall: So any old trollop 'll do i imagine
FFS why the fcuk do we go out fo our way when people ask for 'advice' if they don't listen! lol
Do it dude - then blow the chocolate transfer box all over the line at the Pod lol
Hey, its fun talking to a brick wall lol
give up now, before you ruin your car lol
Rob-16v
31-12-06, 03:32 PM
by ur questions mate i think this project is a bit out of your league! lol
the whole thing will be one off frabication, you cant pop to halford to get a prop tunnel!
please dont think im stupid because im far from it.
plus u'll need to have the cav floorpan all the way along or make a custom transmission tunnel to house the transfer box, propshaft and exhaust!
plus transfer boxes are weak enough in the cavs meaning you cant lower them and adjust the angles, so probley wont last 5mins if they're all twisted mounted in a nova!
i'm trying lol
Anyway this is a nice change from all I'm hearing of late - JDM/OEM/DRIFT lol
JDM your 4WD Nova - Orimental bodykit and s15 headlamps :thumb:lol
Thats a good thing, not being stupid means your half way there.
Now all you need to do is build a car thats never been built despite various attempts by people who build cars for a living / master fabricators / rally car builders etc...
The astra I mentioned earlier took the bloke 3 years and a LOT of money and effort, and Astras arn't as small as Novas, so multiply the effort / money by 2 and i think youll probably be there.
If you do it, ill be the first to congratulate you mate, but seriously, i doubt you'll ever do it because posts like this crop up on here every few months, and have done since time began, and still we are yet to see a 4x4 front engined Nova, so dont get arsy if we are doubtful, and also i wouldnt bother asking for help, because you will be covering new ground that none of us have any experience with.
Its just you, your welder and google im afraid.
give up now, before you ruin your car lol
This been moved to muppet corner yet? lol
lee coley
31-12-06, 03:44 PM
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:9SyGBULTNxEF6M:http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/classics/F/fiat/panda4x4/03-large/fiat-panda-4x4.jpg (http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/classics/F/fiat/panda4x4/03-large/fiat-panda-4x4.jpg) use a panda 4x4
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:9SyGBULTNxEF6M:http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/classics/F/fiat/panda4x4/03-large/fiat-panda-4x4.jpg (http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/classics/F/fiat/panda4x4/03-large/fiat-panda-4x4.jpg) use a panda 4x4
Can see that transfer box and prop taking 220 + bhp lol
or take a jsuty and cut the floor pan off that... they are a similar size to the nova and would probably be engineered to take 200bhpish
as BT has said, your covering totally new ground and need to read things like the RWD threads to work out how to diff up and IRS the back end (thats 75% of the challenge)
Justy good plan - someone been watching th canonball run? lol
or take a jsuty and cut the floor pan off that... they are a similar size to the nova and would probably be engineered to take 200bhpish
as BT has said, your covering totally new ground and need to read things like the RWD threads to work out how to diff up and IRS the back end (thats 75% of the challenge)
Yup, and add to that either reducing the track or widening the nova to suit, making sure the thing is jigged straight, like afore mentioned, finding somewhere for the Cadburys transfer box etc..
I like the justy idea too, however, fitting vauxhall engines to the running gear will throw up yet another headache!
get some of the back issues of PPC where they showed you howto make bellhousings for random conversions ;)
its all "easy" stuff, just needs time and thought before actions.
womble sri
31-12-06, 04:25 PM
if you have got some money try walden engineering he used to be in a partnership with bill blydenstein www.waldenengineering.co.uk
Philsutton
31-12-06, 05:57 PM
if it was a astra / corsa then it wuold be very easy. Cut out boot floor of a 4x4 cav /calibra and weld it in the back with axle and all. Novas are a lot thinner than the above so its not that simple.
But then again everyones dads uncles brothers gardener has one in a garage somewhere but refuse to show anyone
I have considered this for my v6 nova. Thought of using rear floor from no vaux, even a panda (using gm rear diff though).
Upto now the best way i can think of would be to cut out the boot floor, weld in the mount points from the front subframe of another nova and mount a front subrame. that would give the idea track width, plus independant supension and drive hubs/shafts. then mount the gm/cav turbo diff in custom bracket (a strong one) and have the driveshafts from the cab/cal shortened. mount the steering arms to a fixed point. this will make to rear geometry adjustable easily. Make a tunnel and get the cav prop shortened to meet the gm transfer box.
all theory i realise, but a friend of mine has just mounted a audi v8 in the rear of his a4 using the same idea.
Good idea would be to test this with a ?20 scrap nova, to make sure it can be done first (bits tacked of course not welded). and if it does you should have the subframe etc to do it properly
Right, 2 suggestions involving Google
Mondello Park in ROI is Hoast to Manys a 4wd Nova, See if you csan get any Info that way.
Secondly, Look at the Tech Pics of a 4wd cavalier and of the Underside of a nova, compair and take a Look see.
Have you considered a space frame chassis?
Green16v
01-01-07, 10:26 AM
my mates done it to a Mk3 astra and it took a hell of alot of work & money
http://www.streetrace.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17711
Rob-16v
01-01-07, 11:04 AM
ok, thanks for the advice guys, iv seen af ew rear wheel drive nova's so it can be done, might even find someone who will do it for me.
I know a guy who would probably take that on..... but his workshop is near sunderland. Can put you in touch if you like
I have considered this for my v6 nova. Thought of using rear floor from no vaux, even a panda (using gm rear diff though).
Upto now the best way i can think of would be to cut out the boot floor, weld in the mount points from the front subframe of another nova and mount a front subrame. that would give the idea track width, plus independant supension and drive hubs/shafts. then mount the gm/cav turbo diff in custom bracket (a strong one) and have the driveshafts from the cab/cal shortened. mount the steering arms to a fixed point. this will make to rear geometry adjustable easily. Make a tunnel and get the cav prop shortened to meet the gm transfer box.
A Nova doesn't have a subframe :roll:
craig green
02-01-07, 05:21 PM
ok, thanks for the advice guys, iv seen a few rear wheel drive nova's so it can be done, might even find someone who will do it for me.
Its easy enough to get an engine & box in the back. But converting the rear to independant sus & mounting the diff, making room for a prop shaft, aswell as the exhaust etc is going to be harder. You may not even have room for fr seats after that.
But my 1st suggestion would be to ignore the GM/Vauxhall transmission & use something from an Evo or Celica GT4. Better & stronger from a power/reliability point of view.
You can get a prop tunnel from a rwd car in a scrapyard, cut it out.
Ive seen Ford Ka 4x4 rally cars (fr engined) so it could be done with enough skill, lateral thinking & cash. (this is where the Evo running gear suggestion is from)
also the VAG group 4wd is allegeded to be good too
but if you think of it from the flip side a calibra weighs what 1.5 tons... a nova weighs half that so the effective launch load on the box is halved even if your dumping down 300bhp etc.
Oh your right! no subframe. What a s**t design. no wonder they fall apart. I'm new to novas always had cav/callt turbos (built properly with subframes!)As for 4x4 that makes it even easier..... 0nly need the suspension mount points welding in to give you hubs shafs etc from the front of the nova. I would imagine the biggest pain will be the fuel tank. Unless you like it in the boot! I personally hate alloy boot mounted ones in road cars, looks s**t
Philsutton
02-01-07, 08:33 PM
if you ue the floor pan of a cav / calibra then you have to have the tank inside as the tank normally sits behide the diff on the cav which ends at the tail gate on the nova.
what's stopping you using an escort/capri rear axle and a custom prop? make all the linkage yourself and just bin the whole bollocks idea of welding a cally floorpan in.
As mentioned before, spaceframe is the way to go. But in the nicest possible way, the fact your asking these questions suggests you're not quite ready to attempt something like this. Please prove me wrong of course :thumb:
Isn't there someone on here with a RWD nova using a manta axle? If you can get to an autograss meeting (season doesn't start for a couple of months though) take a look at the class 3s. The top cars now are converted micras and some Novas, there will be plenty of ideas there, and the drivers won't mind sharing their experiences, especially if you point out you're not competing with them lol
just buy a pulsar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
H15 NVA
03-01-07, 11:57 AM
just buy a pulsar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
with their cadburys gearbox!!
olidaviesuk
03-01-07, 12:09 PM
Cadburys gearbox nothing :p
I had a Pulsar for four years with over 320bhp and no major problems, other than when I lunched the syncro in second beating a Ferrari 355 from the lights, was almost worth it till I got the ?450 repair bill DOH! :tard:
Now what you want is a Mazda 323 4x4 GTR...
Thinking about it a Mazda 323 GTX (costs about ?500) could prove useful as a doner car for the running gear as they run a very low propshaft (minimal floorplan mods) and have a very strong (and small) 4x4 gearbox, and independant rear suspension. Still a complete nightmare though, custom bellhousings and shortened driveshafts etc would be needed, and essentially all you would be doing is shortening and reshelling a Mazda 323 with a Nova shell, for the effort involved the rallycross / autograss spaceframe would be the way to go.. Unfortunatly the people with that kind of fabrication skill are few and far between or very very expensive!
Unfortunatly the people with that kind of fabrication skill are few and far between or very very expensive!
Hit the nail on the head there. Unfortunately a lot of people think that being able to weld means you can fabricate.
Unfortunately a lot of people think that being able to weld means you can fabricate.
Couldn't agree more. It's like saying "I can hit a nail into a piece of wood, I am therefore a carpenter" lol
Couldn't agree more. It's like saying "I can hit a nail into a piece of wood, I am therefore a carpenter" lol
agreed! on-lookers always think they're the experts! i work in a body shop and people are always asking me if i can just make a whole rear quater out of a bit of flat tin to save them buying a panel, as if its easy as pie lol
anyway:wall: back to topic! lol
olidaviesuk
04-01-07, 11:00 AM
Been thinking about this some more, has anyone ever considered 4x4 with the engine and box in the back.. There seem to be (comparatively) lots of rear engine novas about, hence, probably easier to do than front engine 4x4. The main engineering problem would be to mount a diff in the front..
Gearbox seems fairly straightforward, engine is simply mounted 180deg to the way you would usually mount it (like the evo 1 and hondas), and the gearbox rotated 180deg as well, seen this done on a rallycross corsa b. was mighty impressive, especially since it was running a nissan SR20DET lump with 400bhp :D
But my 1st suggestion would be to ignore the GM/Vauxhall transmission & use something from an Evo or Celica GT4.
I wouldn't advise the Celica, the track on the ST185 and ST205 would be too wide for a Nova, not to mention the nightmareish superstrut suspension. ST165 might be a bit smaller and less mental suspension but hard to find in decent condition now.
Nowt wrong with Pulsar 4wd system, its the brakes you need to worry about on them lol
What about using a Lancia Delta? They're small 4wd jobbies, and always used to be cheap as chips to buy...
What about using a Lancia Delta? They're small 4wd jobbies, and always used to be cheap as chips to buy...
It would be way simpler to just remove the front and replace with Nova bits, same as the back lol
Bet it would just look like a wide arched nova then!
Philsutton
04-01-07, 08:07 PM
what's stopping you using an escort/capri rear axle and a custom prop? make all the linkage yourself and just bin the whole bollocks idea of welding a cally floorpan in.
there is that option but then you have to start messing with diff ratios as i very much doubt they are the same as the vauxhall one i.e. to work with the one in the gearbox.
scott.parker
04-01-07, 08:39 PM
Or Or hears and idea.....
You could just leave it FWD:roll:
Land Rover 90 ;) hey presto ;) Disco brakes ;)
Land Rover 90 ;) hey presto ;) Disco brakes ;)
MMMM, handbrake on the propshaft lol
MMMM, handbrake on the propshaft lol
come again? lol
Land Rover 90 ;) hey presto ;) Disco brakes ;) you could always take it off road then lol lol
come again? lol
I remember on the early 90'd there was a big drum brake on the rear propshaft which was the handbrake lol
Not sure if theyre still like that, Stu would know
the MY07 ones atleast have the HB on the wheels ( i think lol)
Phil GTE
04-01-07, 11:43 PM
Realise its only RWD, but i would betempted to buy an E30 325i and transfer the running gear and tunnel over........
Could buy a body damaged example for ?100 - ?250.....
Chunky Lover
05-01-07, 03:59 PM
simple question how much money+time are u willing to throw at this? it seems like an endless pit imo. wat are these 4wd novas at mondello park u speak of? the coyne brothers?
BigStan
05-01-07, 04:36 PM
If you got the motivation and money for it then please go for it i would love to see it, I saw the mentioned Astra at a show once it looked amazing !
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