How good are nova 2.0 16 as track toys?

[drsmith]

Hi,
firstly i would like to say a big 'hello' as i am a fresh faced nova virgin! lol
ive spent the last few days browsing the forum checking out the FAQ's, searching for various topics etc and have found it to be very informative and very friendly, which is rare these days on car clubs!

basically i would just like some honest reviews from the people who know and have had experience with the nova 2.0 16 valve track day cars. i want a new track day toy, i say new, but i really mean 'my first' lol. i have been looking at a few different cars, clio williams, clio 1.8 16v, 205 gti 1.9, astra gte, 5 gt etc..... being an ex ford guy im quite partial to the xr2i's as they are so easy to tune! but ive always loved nova's and astras and fancy reliving my youth a little! haha

however, having spent some time searching the forum there appears to be a split opinion as to how good they are. some people say they are too nose heavy and dont handle well, some people say that they end up ripping the mounts off and damaging the engine bay if pushed hard, some also say that the alternator tends to hit the inner wing when cornering at speed etc...

how good are they when compared to the usual track day 'slags' and what are the pitfalls/benefits of ownership? i have looked at a few vids of novas on track and have to say they look rapid and rather fun! i have a budget of around ?1000 and would like the car with mot so i can drive it to track, any information would be grately appreciated! thanks for the cool and friendly website! keep up the good work!

David

[Stuart]

if you ONLY want to spend ?1K then a 2.0 16v nova isnt really in budget.... Your better off with a 205 gti.

The reason being is that ok you can do an engine conversion for naff all etc, BUT you need good brakes, suspension and other drivetrain mods to make the car a good track weapon (things like coilovers and a Diff that are fairly vital for track use blow the budget away without the car lol)

the mounts thing, thats down to people using STD OLD rubber mounts, new ones would help, but solid mounts are far better... but again eat well into the budget.

You either need to up the budget or look at things like 205's.

all my humble opinion of course

[craig green]

I agree. You wont pick up anything track worthy for that price. You'd have more fun in a sorted 1600 GTE that stops well etc.

Either raise the budget or look at getting something as a project. Novas are potentially the easiest cars to modify. Changing bits like brakes & suspension are easy mods that can be done in a morning/day & reap the biggest rewards.
All decent track cars are built up over time & evolve into the beasts they by trial & error.

A ?1000 2.0 16v Nova is likely to have a tired engine & few bodges here & there.

[Dar]

I agree with Stu. Your best bet is something like a 205 with your budget. 2l 16v Novas can be awsome track cars, but a good one will cost alot more than 1k.

[Martin]

Like craig said, you'd b better of either getting GTE with a decent set of suspension and brakes... or upping the budget abit..

theres also a great debate about big blocks novas not handling as well as small block.. but personaly i havent had the chance to drive my nova as of yet(hopefully it shall be done soon) lol


good luck with what ever you choose to do dude

[drsmith]

thanks for all the comments guys, what sort of budget would i have to be looking at in order to go down the 2.0 16v route?

[Martin]

thanks for all the comments guys, what sort of budget would i have to be looking at in order to go down the 2.0 16v route?


To be honest mate i think it all depends on what you want...


decent suspension can cost alot if you go for coilovers yo can pay upto 500+ for them..

for the engine& box it may be eaiser to buy a donor car ie astra,cav,cally with the engine you desire aslo you'l have the box and brakes..and you can make some money back of bits you may be able to sell of the donor car..

you'll need a conversion kit if you to do it rite i should think(some1 mite say different)

theres alot to think about...


but i bet someone more experienced will be able to give you a better idea



Heres a list from another Thread

nova
c20xe/c20let engine
ecu for the engine.
loom for the engineand rest of ancilaries
gearbox, f16/f20 best bet.
oil cooler if you want it.
radiator and fan as above^^
injection tank and lines and pump.
22 spline shafts with mk2 cav 1.6 big block inner cv's
engine mounts, can buy from chris astley.
uprated suspension and shockers
BIGGER BRAKES!
exhaust manifold off engine to modify to fit nova system
oil and coolant
water
alot of swearing

that should cover it.

just make sure your engine bay is stron enough with enough seam/stitch and or including chassis strengthening plates available from chris astley again.




Martin

[Lee-1984]

your lookin at around 2k plus for anything half decent

[craig green]

Theres no reason why you cant buy a reasonable 16v cheap, but to get it on track (safely) you will likely want better brakes, new tyres, sorted springs & dampers + maybe a cage etc.

You wont get all that for a grand unless its stolen or similar.

Its worth doing that way as you get the chance to do some work on the car, tweak it to your tastes & know its safe. I wouldnt buy a valver & hit the track. But you will have a running car you can get to know on the public roads & evaluate what bits need replacing/sorting etc.

Ive found because these 16vs are conversions & everyone has a method for each aspect of the job, you often find bodges or sub-standard work. This is what makes the difference between a good or bad one.

[Stuart]

guesstimates

Coilovers + chassis mods to suit (poly bushes, geo setup etc) ?600
Brakes.. 256mm Valver brakes will do with decent pads ?1-200
engine conversion would be ohh ?600 id guess... (for a non tired 2.0 16v as theya re getting on a bit now)
Good tyres ?300 min for 4
Diff of "any" type (my personal like is plate) ?550
Cage ?500ish
+ niff naff bits ?200

so yoru looking at nearer ?3K for a base to work from really...

[drsmith]

how about buying a standard astra gte 2.0 16v as an alternative and modding that? how does the handling compare? speed, performance etc..

[Stuart]

V capable cars imho.... you can get them cheap etc. and stuff for modding them to track warriors is about the same as nova bits but you dont have to do the bodged engine conversion ;)

[drsmith]

woohooo! haha, ive also heard horror stories about the handling and understeer on the astras though, i used to have an 8v gte years ago and loved it! went for a ride in my mates 16v and thought it was the starship enterprise at warp factor 9! haha i was alot younger though i have to admit lol anything i should look out for other than rust on the astra gte 16v?

oh and how does the astra gsi shape up against the gte?

[Stuart]

cambelt idlers are prone to shattering on older 16V engines..

[drsmith]

is that an easy thing to replace? expensive? how would you check etc... does anyone have any links to astra gte forums etc..?

[dannyb]

With an Astra you'd have a bit more room to work on the enigne when it does break! The mk3 is a good car, except it needs a decent set of polybushes and good quality shocks and springs (or coilovers) to make it work for track use. You could try PVG's forums for Astra info as they have a similarly knowledgeable base of decent people as this forum does.

[Adam]

Mk3 GSI's look better than mk2 imo.

I'd go with mk2 for a track car tho.

[Lee]

Mk3 GSI's look better than mk2 imo.

I'd go with mk2 for a track car tho.

Totally agree, the Mk 2 chassis was much better IMO, and its also a lot lighter which as far as track cars go, is one of the main things.

[drsmith]

so if i picked up a decent gte 2.0 16v what would you suggest i do to it?

im presuming -

poly bushes,
suspension upgrade - adjustable suspension or coilovers
exhaust?
induction?
can they be remapped or chipped?
are the standard brakes upto the job with maybe just uprated discs and pads, i.e. keepin the standard size and master cylinder?
good wheels and maybe some slicks/road legal track tyres?

any info on the above and opinions would be grately appreciated! thanks for all the help so far, i have been very impressed at peoples patience and willingness to help! its been great!

[Stuart]

"chipping" an N/A engine is largely futile and a waste of money imo

[craig green]

Astra mk2 GTE is a far better drive than a Nova IMO. Easier to see out the cabin & better steering feel etc.

If you want to save the money & insist on piloting an XE, thats the way to go... they are gaining cult status however & prices are climbing.

[Chris]

If it is vauxhall you are after then I would go against the astra XE.

This is how I would do it to build a 'quick' car which is easy to drive for a novice trackdayer.

Nova GTE/GSi ?500 max
Strip it - ?free
Decent 2nd hand aftermarket suspension - ?200 max (dont bother with coilovers)
Race bush kit - ?60ish
Exhaust - ?100 inc manifold 2nd hand
Ashtray 16v brakes - ?100 upwards depending on what they are like when you buy them
14" wheels with tyres - ?50 upto ?150.

IMO that will get you a nice quick car for a circuit which is nice and easy to drive, alot easier than an XE nova or MkII ashtray.

Advantages over the 1600 8v are that they are much stronger engines, far more reliable, easier to work on and in future doesnt cost too much to get the same power/weight as the stock XE.

As for suspension there is no need for coilovers imo unless you are going for competition and require perfect individual settings. Brakes will be fine with a decent pad/disc combo if used correctly. I personally would run 14" wheels if I could (my brake size doesnt allow) as they are lighter and tyres are cheaper than the 15" options. The bushes will tighten the handling up no end and if you want more then welding can be done which costs nothing if you have the kit and expertise.

Chris

[Stuart]

have to say thats all good, bar the 14" tyre costs lol... 14" slick/semi slicks are more expensive than 13 or 15" variants of the same tyre due to 14" being an odd competion tyre size.

[Chris]

your a homo, road tyres will be a bit cheaper though, 13's would be better to get some nice cheap slicks from formula cars, but brakes will be a bit poo.

Chris

[Stuart]

i dropped a size from 14 to 13, and just got drilled gsi discs and Mintex 1155 pads. obv no idea how they performed but it envisage that they would still be as good as average spec valver brakes..

[Adam]

Sounds like a good track car on a budget/\

If you can find a cheap gte/gsi/

You can easily have fun with 100bhp.

[Mike]

have to say thats all good, bar the 14" tyre costs lol... 14" slick/semi slicks are more expensive than 13 or 15" variants of the same tyre due to 14" being an odd competion tyre size.

i wouldnt say odd, as there commonly used on road rallys/forest stages on lower cc engined cars, but in know what you mean, odd on the whole like

Anyway, tbh drsmith, theres nothing stopping you building an XE nova as a track slag over a period of a few months!! If you take it easy buying the parts, you could have sorted track slag for about ?2k'ish

Altho this may be out of your budget, once youre present budget is maxed out, theres nowt stopping you browsing ebay now and again picking up parts that you want as you need them ;)

The above is tbh, exaxtly what im doing with my XE conversion, once the budgets gone, get parts as i need them, not all at once like

[Mazz]

Chris' GTE/GSI post makes sence, as you'll have a reasonably (sp) quick track day car within your budget.
The 1600 8v lumps are cracking imho, very capable engines..
Then in the future, you've got the option of dropping in an XE as and when for, about 1k max.