View Full Version : Nova Vs The Cossie
DAZZI D
09-07-06, 03:36 PM
heh everyone, ive got a nova 1.6 at the moment, and last night i was down the tracks in birmingham and i came against a cossie and it blew me away (no surprise)lol, just wanted to know from 2.0 and 2.0 turbo owners, how much bhp, would you need to keep up and has anybody beaten or kept up with one. just want to know as im just a month away of getting a conversion with mods ie throttle bodies or shud i just go for a turbo.:thumb: thanks
xe will keep up with a standard cossie in a straight line. power to weight ratio!
my old xe kept up with a cossie through 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears
You need abowt 40000 bhpeas innit bruv Fit sum NOZ Innit, den get sum of dat electronik turbo boost dump valve ting innit! And den one of dose rezizta chipps of Ebay blood!
Lay down your rear seats flat 2 den put some Max Powa Stikaz on it dey add bout 15 brake each innit!!
Retard, get a grip, a cossies a cossie!
Different league!
Yeah an XE may keep up in a straigt line and a turbo may anihilate one, but that would probably only be against a standard cossie anyway, and how many of those do u see???
Unless your prepared to spend serious wedge on an LET with an F28 and a diff with serious brakes/suspension your not really gonna get that close, especially on the twisties!!
In that case, id buy a cossie if thats wat you really want!
You need abowt 40000 bhpeas innit bruv Fit sum NOZ Innit, den get sum of dat electronik turbo boost dump valve ting innit! And den one of dose rezizta chipps of Ebay blood!
Lay down your rear seats flat 2 den put some Max Powa Stikaz on it dey add bout 15 brake each innit!!
Retard, get a grip, a cossies a cossie!
Different league!
lol lol someone got out of bed the wrong side !
DAZZI D
09-07-06, 05:47 PM
i just got some of those stickers you were on about, wow really does make a difference, i bought ten of them and now i have an extra 150bhp, cheers im going to tell everybody i know about this, as this way saves so much money.
DAZZI D
09-07-06, 05:49 PM
thanks for letting us no, love the car by the way.
^^ hahaha
what is the tracks tho ?
dhdev (Oli)
09-07-06, 06:00 PM
Is that up tysley or down by the BP, (mis-spent youth) thought they'd clamped down on that ages ago. I stopped going when a BMW lost it and ploughed into the crowd at the BP (years ago)
You wouldnt win anyway. How many standard cossies do you see/hear?
A stage one upgrade on a sierra takes it from standard 227bhp (still more then a standard LET) to something stupid like 300+ Okay, the weight may be an issue but when there capable of this http://www.apra70.dsl.pipex.com/home/index.htm
no nova, and i mean NO NOVA will catch them!
When your driving one of the worlds most tuneable saloon cars, not even power to weight matters.
Mke
Depends what you mean by 'beat' a cossie. I've passed loads of them on track. I even went to the RS day last year and didn't get over taken by a cossie and there where just one or two of them out on track.
I did get passed by a well sorted Focus RS though. I say well sorted I actually mean race car.
Welsh Dan
09-07-06, 09:18 PM
Turbo'd C25XE? :D
Don't be silly - Its a smokey ole XE on TB's. On track power is not everything.
Don't get me wrong a modifyed cossie would wasted my little car when it came to a top speed run. Novas are about as areodynamic as a house brick.
Welsh Dan
09-07-06, 09:32 PM
No I know yours is a c20xe, the turbo'd c25xe was a daft suggestion for a cossie beater in a straight line :).
im sure i saw years ago a cossi powered nova vs a calibra 4x4 powered nova.
anyone ekse?
sure it was in maxine powers or flacid car
im sure i saw years ago a cossi powered nova vs a calibra 4x4 powered nova.
anyone ekse?
sure it was in maxine powers or flacid car
I've heard from a lot pof people that the cossie engine is nealry identical to the calibra turbo engine, although the cossie lump is mounted with the pulleys at the front of the bay as oppose to the nearside?
Back in the bay there were a few companys that built 4x4 nova's pirmarily for rally use so this could of been true?
Mint FRST
10-07-06, 01:11 PM
[quote=LAST OF THE NOVA SR'S]I've heard from a lot pof people that the cossie engine is nealry identical to the calibra turbo engine, although the cossie lump is mounted with the pulleys at the front of the bay as oppose to the nearside?
[quote]
Er chalk & cheese mate. The only connection is that Cosworth engineered the cylinder head on some XE & LETs.
I've heard from a lot pof people that the cossie engine is nealry identical to the calibra turbo engine, although the cossie lump is mounted with the pulleys at the front of the bay as oppose to the nearside?
Er chalk & cheese mate. The only connection is that Cosworth engineered the cylinder head on some XE & LETs.
Oh yeah i know about the coscast heads etc,but have you ever had look around a cossie engine/bay, the lay out is praticaly the same bar the transverse mounted engine in the ford. :thumb:
DAZZI D
10-07-06, 01:50 PM
cool thanx lads just want to know, p.s yeah everybody still goes to the b.p and race.:thumb:
Standard 2wd cossie/saff had 204bhp, 4x4 saff had 220bhp and the escort had 227bhp. Cosworth developed the XE cylinder head but there's no PHYSICAL relationship to the Ford engine.
IIRC the Cosworth engine is based on a 1960's-designed Pinto with fancy pistons and unique cylinder head, and the XE/LET is based on a 1970's-designed 2.0 engine with, err , fancy pistons and unique cylinder head, so they were both developed in a similar fashion.....
only thing is, 4x4's have more power, but lose more though wheels due to 4x4 drivetrain
Mint FRST
10-07-06, 03:13 PM
Oh yeah i know about the coscast heads etc,but have you ever had look around a cossie engine/bay, the lay out is praticaly the same bar the transverse mounted engine in the ford. :thumb:
Not really. Lets run an airflow meter where as only small turbo Escys did. All other Cossie dont. Inlet tract is completely different.
Not tryin to argue here.lol
Ok, original Question, XE will keep with a Cossie, LET Nova will abliterate one.
Ok Cossies are tuned, but tune the Nova to same amount and what would win, Nova? Yeh it would.
But its a Nova, Cosworth's have rally heritage, easy to tune, indestrucable engines, a lot are 4wd or others RWD, cossies have leather as standard on some models, proper seats, a/c in some, dont rust like Nova's, even most **** cosworth around is worth ?3k, Have got fairly aerodynamic design, dont need strengthening, the list goes on.
Get the point. Yeh a 2.0 Nova whether it be on TB's or Turbo'd even standard XE will not embaress its self against a Cossie, but even if you beat the Cosworth, is the owner really going to think- :cry: or is he going to think boys and their toys?
Get the idea, fast isnt always best.
you'll still get "nuff respekt" lol even if you can at least stay with him or even stay next to him/it!
Not that we on here condone street racing or anything :roll:
letmelive
10-07-06, 04:22 PM
lol not a chance, my brothers cossie has just gone in for a brand new cossy engine 4x4 hybrid and guess what, one of the blokes from f1 cosworth built it, brand new engine. im guessing 400bhp cossie stage 3 chip would blow any nova away.
if the nopva was 400bhp and the cossie is, from 20/30mph up obv not straight from the line, i fail to see how a car weighing more would beat the car weighing less?
as i said before, ill say again, looky here>
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96139&highlight=&sid=4304522430de8b78eb8882280a7fa461
what nova can do that. Enough said i think. Yeah like nova's accerlerate that fast (in the second vid) :roll:
The owner of that sierra reckons it cost less then 35k to build a car faster then nearly every ferrari
scott.parker
10-07-06, 04:57 PM
Nice to see the kids are still arguing then...lol
Well power to weight novas with xe/let win in a straight line,and set up well with a good driver they can do on track also..
(not that i have ever raced one on the road thats just plane stupid) :roll: lol
Scott
lol @ you lot.
In all fairness you cannot compare a Cossie and a fecking Nova. If both where standard then you know what would win.
Then you can go on to modifyed cars. You cannot compare modifyed cars in general. If you have two modifyed cars and wanted to see which was quicker in a straight line, you could do a 1/4 mile run with them. But then the car that wins that may have no chance around a track.
So which one is faster?
Neither - one's better 1/4 mile and the other around a circuit. Then you can have the same two cars on a different circuit and the other may win.
However I do believe that the origonal question would was meant to be something like this:- I got wasted by a cossie. What sort of power would a Nova have to be putting out to beat a standard RWD Sierra Cosworth.
Then you have you starting point.:thumb:
But ? for ? the cossie gets more bhp, nearly every cossie, weather its an RS500 (3 door) Sapph (4wd) or RWD sierra, T5'd es'cos or T25'd es'cos thats why around 98% of them are modified.
It will still beat a nova as they accerlerate a lot faster even though they weight more.
Mike
Power isn't everything!
What you want to look at is power to weight ratio.
Cossies are not cheap! Those YB lumps fetch a few ?
Plus that is not what the origonal question was about, was it?
Power isn't everything!
What you want to look at is power to weight ratio.
Cossies are not cheap! Those YB lumps fetch a few ?
Plus that is not what the origonal question was about, was it?
Very true, but my honest opinion is that a modified nova against a modifed cos, the ford would win.
In standard from, as in a standed XE'd nova against a standard saph cos, that would be very interesting indeed :cool: Espcially around the twisties!
As said before you cannot compare modifyed cars. Although if you had the ultimate Cossie and the unltimate Nova im sure the Cossie(what ever one you like) would win, yes.
XE Nova's are not standard though. But a well built one with the proper bits upgraded as well would be a fair match for a standard Serria Cosworth, infact im sure that it would be quite a close run thing.
I say this with track racing in mind. Im not a fan of the 1/4 mile. It only tests a small aspect of a cars performance.
Im not a fan of the 1/4 mile. It only tests a small aspect of a cars performance.
Ditto. Real life road driving is what im comparing to, taking into consideration the aspects of *cough* normal *cough* road driving lol
Marsden
10-07-06, 09:47 PM
yeah but come on its a blue oval and who would wanna drive that???? lol
no offence all you ford drivers, not that there should be any here:wtf:
yeah but come on its a blue oval and who would wanna drive that???? lol
amen brother :thumb:
Ok again, I fail to see how you can sit there and say a 300bhp Nova would loose to a 300bhp Cossie.
How can it possibly hapen, how is a Cossie "Faster accelerating" they weigh more and have same power, less mass to move means it will move quicker.
Last of the Nova SR's I suggeust you rethink your statements, its not possible that a nova and cossie with the same power that a cossie can win.
It goes against the laws of physics.
I agree, as I have already said, yes a COssie is better.
And for the comment above, it may have a ford badge, whats wrong with ford's, theyve been maing some pretty tasty cars for 30 years now. Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts, Cortina's, Capri's, XR's and RST's how many of them do you see compared to say early Vaux's- LOADS! WHy- becuase fords are more popular, parts are easily available, why?- Better than early Vaux's. SIMPLE.
I do drive a Nova, 280bhp ish, I have beaten Cosowrth etc, but I know what I'd rather have.
In answer to original question, I out accerated a Cosworth In my standard XE Nova. And the bloke driving was flooring it, as I spoke to him, and he was seriosuly shocked to hear my XE was standard.
Paul
Marsden
10-07-06, 09:59 PM
just an opinion and no matter what people say i dont like fords. nothing will change my mind, prob same with you. If everyone had the same opinion this would be a pretty boring world:roll:
Dar- Wuickly to your appoint about comparing modified cars. I look at it this way, The Cosworth is the modified version of the Sierra/Sapph/Escort, I know it came out a factory, but cosworth was a tuning company, so it is a modified sierra/sapph/escort.....
Any one agree?
Ok again, I fail to see how you can sit there and say a 300bhp Nova would loose to a 300bhp Cossie.
How can it possibly hapen, how is a Cossie "Faster accelerating" they weigh more and have same power, less mass to move means it will move quicker.
Last of the Nova SR's I suggeust you rethink your statements, its not possible that a nova and cossie with the same power that a cossie can win.
It goes against the laws of physics.
I agree, as I have already said, yes a COssie is better.
And for the comment above, it may have a ford badge, whats wrong with ford's, theyve been maing some pretty tasty cars for 30 years now. Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts, Cortina's, Capri's, XR's and RST's how many of them do you see compared to say early Vaux's- LOADS! WHy- becuase fords are more popular, parts are easily available, why?- Better than early Vaux's. SIMPLE.
I do drive a Nova, 280bhp ish, I have beaten Cosowrth etc, but I know what I'd rather have.
In answer to original question, I out accerated a Cosworth In my standard XE Nova. And the bloke driving was flooring it, as I spoke to him, and he was seriosuly shocked to hear my XE was standard.
Paul
Jesus christ! If it was going to get this heated i would have bought some spare ribs to bbq!
My views are my views, and exactly that! Having driven an es'cos and XE nova rally car my opinion (and exactly that, an opinion) goes with the es'cos all the way. :p 4wd is far simply, better then 2.
Although the lotus elise i test drove was far better than the above but thats another thread entirely :thumb:
Marsden
10-07-06, 10:05 PM
i agree, hit the nail on the head there. well done:thumb: Its like Mclaren slr merc, wouldnt be the car it is without Mclaren or a Brabus wouldnt be the same. Alpina is another example the list goes on.
i agree, hit the nail on the head there. well done:thumb: Its like Mclaren slr merc, wouldnt be the car it is without Mclaren or a Brabus wouldnt be the same. Alpina is another example the list goes on.
Lotus Carlton, prime example of GM motoring :thumb: with added "go" from Lotus Race Engineering
its not getting heated, im just saying what your saying is wrong.:roll:
im just saying what your saying is wrong.:roll:
Wrong in your opinion and experience/s, thats what im getting at. :thumb:
the pont i was making is not xe vs escort cos, bexcause xe is 150bhp andd escoert coss 227?
I said for example 200bhp vs 200bhp, 300vs 300bhop
the lighter car would win, which in this instance is the nova, there is no two ways about that. If your opinion is the cossie would beat it, fine think that but your wrong!
the pont i was making is not xe vs escort cos, bexcause xe is 150bhp andd escoert coss 227?
I said for example 200bhp vs 200bhp, 300vs 300bhop
the lighter car would win, which in this instance is the nova, there is no two ways about that. If your opinion is the cossie would beat it, fine think that but your wrong!
I could be right. What if the nova was say a 204bhp LET against a stage one 340+ bhp saph cos. Then what?
Okay, from "the lights" yeah the nova WILL pull away, but when the boost and 4wd drive train kick in on the cos, then what?
Earlier in this thread theres a link to a 201.8mph sierra cos posted by me, you should take a look at how fast that does 0-60mph in lol lol
Ill stop now before this thread carries on for ever, as i want to go to bed :D C'ya
thats not what im saying a standard let nova wil get trounced by a 340bhp cossie.
if a nova had the same power as that cossie it would be quicker by physics, until you get to aerodyanmics....
simple facts are ...... ?10000+for a decent cossie / ?2000-?5000 for a decent nova turbo. A cossie would win everytime its a pointless arguement. 0-60 - cossie..... a nova would just spin away and the 4wd cossie would just pull. Top End - Cossie again.
Which would I have ??? Nova Turbo :) then when I get bored and I get older so I can actually afford to buy and insure a Cossie .... I'd have a Cossie.
nova-lyf
11-07-06, 12:30 AM
i dunno put a cozzy engine in a nova then see what it does
Dar- Wuickly to your appoint about comparing modified cars. I look at it this way, The Cosworth is the modified version of the Sierra/Sapph/Escort, I know it came out a factory, but cosworth was a tuning company, so it is a modified sierra/sapph/escort.....
Any one agree?
No, I dont
It was sold off a showroom floor in that specification, and was built by factory backed engineers to that spec so no, they arent modified. Its kind of like saying that a vectra GSi isnt standard as it was developed by MSD
anyhow = the Cosworth 2wd models are RWD which will prove beneficial when launching from a drag start. Instead of trying to pick its driven wheels up off the floor (a la nova) it is sitting all the weight down onto the rears.
Nova has as much rally heritage as the Cosworth, and Cossies rust just as much as our favourite brick-shaped car.......
simple facts are ...... ?10000+for a decent cossie / ?2000-?5000 for a decent nova turbo. A cossie would win everytime its a pointless arguement. 0-60 - cossie..... a nova would just spin away and the 4wd cossie would just pull. Top End - Cossie again.
Which would I have ??? Nova Turbo :) then when I get bored and I get older so I can actually afford to buy and insure a Cossie .... I'd have a Cossie.
You cant get a decent conditon Saph Cos for around ?4k-?7k :thumb:
letvalva
11-07-06, 09:36 PM
my mate has an escort cossie and its stage 3, 350/360 bhp and we had a little battle in the piss rain(my car is a let nova running about 280 bhp without the nos) we both nailed it in third and as you would guess i was just spinning like **** but he still only got 3 car lenghts on me which i got down to sitting on his ****, it was a short bit of road really cos i would have passed it no prob if we didnt have to slow down for around about
wannna have another go at it in the dry on a dual carrige way, cos the cossie runs out of puff at about 130 due to the spoiler causing drag
suppose it all comes down to what cars you like, i think its great that peeps think i drive a ****ty little nova, least its paid for and goes like **** for pennies
i think its great that peeps think i drive a ****ty little nova, least its paid for and goes like **** for pennies
same reason i love novas, just got to build the bloody thing now !!
sorry, i know its off topic but i would rather have a LET nova than a cossie
letvalva
11-07-06, 10:04 PM
same reason i love novas, just got to build the bloody thing now !!
sorry, i know its off topic but i would rather have a LET nova than a cossie
so would i after driving the cossie i thought the lag was terrible in it.
i thought the same after i drove my mates mr2 twin turbo, pretty sure my XE would have him, not least bcuz he drives like a girl - never even been sideways in it, well only when i had a go !! and even then i thought it understeered quite badly considering
jamie gsi16v
12-07-06, 12:45 AM
may i just add quickly i do alot of work at topboss performace and fitzroy the owner has a 521bhp proven rs500 v6 twin turbo and in my nova i have an let running 300+bhp with nos and an f28 and i can leave him from 0-100 and stick with him all the way to 170mph, so im happy enough with that and it kinda shows what power to weight ratio can prove,
DAZZI D
12-07-06, 05:47 PM
Thanks all for comments !! you all had very good questions,and answers. didnt think my question would cause such a stirr lol.
i have a standard sapphire 4x4 cosworth and my friend had an astra with an xe (not too sure if it had work done but i couldn't see anything obvious) and it is only a small fraction slower than mine and i mean a slight fraction, so with the weight saved in a nova it should be on par with it and nova with a let should beat it
hope that helps!
big_wig_074
16-07-06, 04:34 PM
oh my god,some people really like to pretend they know things!last of the nova sr's: youre wrong! a stg 1 cossie will be lucky to push anymore than 260bhp,and a std xe engined nova will stay with a std escort cossie easliy,theres too much transmission loss and not enough power to do anything with. also,wtf are you on about off the line a 4x4 will EAT a 2wd alive,4wd doesnt "kick in" after a while,its fast initially then loses out to 2wd as the losses are greater! the cossie engine is nothing like the bloody LET, the head is different,the bottom end is different (steel rods and crank as std in the cossie!) the manifolds etc....well,it depends on what cosworth u have as they all differ. someone mentioned a 400bhp stage 3 car?PMSL,yeah ok then whatever,ive had a 418bhp cossie and beleive me,its a little more involved than greens,chip,3 bar and exhaust!the cosworth may be cheaper to get big power out of than the let,BUT a cosworth will cost 5000 whereas a xe nova can be had for a grand!FAR cheaper! having had both,the nova is more fun ALL day long even than my 418bhp rwd saff,but i still want another saff someday,as it was MENTAL in a straight line and so much better for cruising.
rjm25r: er....my cossie was 17 years old when i got rid,and the total amount of rust on the whole thing?well,i noticed a tiny bubble starting on the rear arch,thats it!!!ur talking rubbish
cossies are my favourite car EVER,but the nova is a quality little bugger,cheap as chips and fast as buggery!horses for courses
Well said. I had a stage one saph cossie and yes it was quick, but not the quickest car on the road by a long shot!
Plenty of cars out there today that will easily outrun a standard or stage 1 cossie
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