View Full Version : E16SE v's C20XE
So just for fun:
You have ?2000 to spend on a mint GSi shell, do you:
1. Tune the nuts off a 1.6 8v and have nice suspension, tyres, etc
or
2. Spend your money on a (heavy) C20XE conversion
(im not bias at all - haha)
can some one make a poll of this please, because in dont know how?
A
doherty
23-06-06, 12:38 AM
id go 16 all the way....
im doin it neway:p :thumb:
xe,and tune the hell out of that
novamadman
23-06-06, 01:22 AM
fully built 1600 running on bottlethroddies and mbe :D mmmmmmmm
tricky one as both are awesome in their own rights.......
but the bang per buck would be XE on a moderate TB kit and Nitrous for now and again fun.
nathan.
23-06-06, 09:04 AM
My 1.6 was great fun. Nothing special, just twin 40's, cam, 4 branch etc. Wasn't dead fast, but was nippy.
Now ive got a XE but its not on the road yet.
I'd love to have a highly tuned 1600 but just couldn't afford it, so for a similar amount of power i went for the xe.
craig green
23-06-06, 10:39 AM
I was faced with the exact dilemma. I plumped to turbocharge the 1600 8v. A rarer sight at shows etc & the handling will be superior to any big block Nova you come up against.
Have to say that a smokey old 150k mile old XE would still be cheaper & more reliable than a highly tuned 1400 or 1600 most likely.
I just think XE's are boring & run of the mill.
XE, just go for out and out power
20xe & spend the rest on on a decent supsension kit, polybushes & Lowered tiebar mounts, solid engine mounts, stitch weld the entire shell etc
"There's no replacement for displacement" :thumb:
"There's no replacement for displacement" :thumb:
I was going to write that!!
dhdev (Oli)
23-06-06, 04:30 PM
"There's no replacement for displacement" :thumb:
:roll:
There is;
Throttle bodies
Superchargers
Nitrous
Turbochargers
:p
craig green
23-06-06, 04:45 PM
:roll:
There is;
Throttle bodies
Superchargers
Nitrous
Turbochargers
:p
Nah. A NOS'd up GTE (1.6) at full chat, still wouldnt hold off a knackered old XE. & neither would a blown 1600 either.
I hate XE's in Novas but thats the way it is.
i dunno.... dan manages to hold off the knackerd old std XE's (and even well tuned ones eh lee) fairly well....
but still power for ? its the big XE all day. For a stubborn purist a 16XE and then for morons like me 1200s :D
dhdev (Oli)
23-06-06, 05:56 PM
Nah. A NOS'd up GTE (1.6) at full chat, still wouldnt hold off a knackered old XE. & neither would a blown 1600 either.
I hate XE's in Novas but thats the way it is.
So ur saying neils old 191bhp 1.6 8v turbo wouldn't hold off a 150bhp xe :tard: Wrong!!! lol
I love they way that a standard XE is always compared to a modifyed non XE car.
Oh sorry not just an XE but a 150,000mile smokey XE. Thats my engine then :D
I'd go for 1.68v over a 2.0 again !
I like the fact my car is reasonably quick, and the enigne is a original Nova lump.
And it takes quite a bit of cash, and effort to make a 1.6T40 match an XE. It's not as easy as people thinkg.
however, sometimes i would like a quieter, easy to drive engine. instead of my slighly impractical and noisy one.
DaveMarshall
23-06-06, 06:36 PM
For that money you could fit a C20LET motor
Here we go, for all you XE lovers out there. I have found conclusive proof that they DON'T handle. My advice to anyone considering an engine swap do the smart thing and get a 1.6 16v. OR like Stuart get a 1.2 monster there even better!
Right click save as (http://www.daxtek.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Exige.wmv)
Here we have a smokey old XE engine that?s done lots of miles. So many infact that the exact amount has been lost to history. Anyway the yellow car is an Exige that competes in the Castle Combe GT championship, im not going to say how much BHP it has because you wouldn't believe me. Anyway watch how this car completely inialates the XE Nova. If you watch carefully you can see it romp away in the bends as well as seeing the Nova understeer horribly at every opportunity.
A horribly handling car I think you would agree and conclusive proof that XE Nova's are boring and DONT handle:cry:
DaveMarshall
23-06-06, 06:44 PM
lol
JSeymour
23-06-06, 06:55 PM
Here we go, for all you XE lovers out there. I have found conclusive proof that they DON'T handle. My advice to anyone considering an engine swap do the smart thing and get a 1.6 16v. OR like Stuart get a 1.2 monster there even better!
Right click save as (http://www.daxtek.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Exige.wmv)
Here we have a smokey old XE engine that?s done lots of miles. So many infact that the exact amount has been lost to history. Anyway the yellow car is an Exige that competes in the Castle Combe GT championship, im not going to say how much BHP it has because you wouldn't believe me. Anyway watch how this car completely inialates the XE Nova. If you watch carefully you can see it romp away in the bends as well as seeing the Nova understeer horribly at every opportunity.
A horribly handling car I think you would agree and conclusive proof that XE Nova's are boring and DONT handle:cry:
are you being sarcastic?:confused:
boring thread lol.
End of the day its individual opinion as to what people refer to as best. Both styles have their own merits and pitfalls.
Personally i went the 1.6 8v route as i have kept hold of this engine from bog standard 10 yrs ago and built many variations of it as i have learnt more and more. My final wish was to build something abit different, which it had/has turned out to be the past few yrs. I swore it would die at my hands many yrs ago and i still stand by that now lol lol
Craig green you talk nonsense lol, myself and jim drive the proof as did novanail (i mean neil ;) ).
Xe is the cheapest option, no argueing there. If second hand parts are sourced though, the 1.6 route isnt 'that' much dearer but still wont match the xe.
End of the day a fast car is only as fast as the driver can drive it, myself or dar could be on track and someone in a standard normal car could still rape us if they knew what they were doing.
XE's must be crap thats why you dont see many of them in nova's, or LET's because they are too heavy and handle like a barge
some good comments that, not that ive driven one yet, but i'd imagen that a tuned 1.6 has more 'usable' power than a tuned XE, good point about the 16XE though.
A
XE's must be crap thats why you dont see many of them in nova's, or LET's because they are too heavy and handle like a barge
:wtf:
no, you dont see many !! id rather start with 150 bhp then finish with it ???
but how do you define useable ?? a tuned 1.6 will maybe match an XE ? not on a motorway !!! or after 60mph
E16SE to save the ~40kgs between the front wheels. Its more satisfying beating a higher powered car with only a 1.6 under the bonnet.
EDIT Dar:- I've seen previous vids of your car, goes like a rocket in a straight line!
Welsh Dan
24-06-06, 11:39 AM
I'll be going down the mint-ish shell and gsi engine route as soon as I can afford to, I'm not interested in an XE or LET, yet. ;)
valver500
24-06-06, 11:54 AM
20xe 20xe 20xe 20xe etc
XE's must be crap thats why you dont see many of them in nova's, or LET's because they are too heavy and handle like a barge
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit lol
I have to agree with Dan and Dar, its strictly down to personal preferance. Yes, a small block nova will handle better for less money, but if your willing to spend money on the chassis on an XE, the differences are few and far between. Dar is proof of that, and I hope to get mine up to his standard at some point.
If you want my honest opinion from what ive seen and experienced, the best setup for an ultra quick all round nova, look no further than lee He****ys beast. 1.6 16v on TB's and plenty of engine mods. 200bhp big block power with small block weight distribution. And it appears hes actually built some reliability into it this year, so those of you coming to Lllandow will see what i mean.
Those of you who arn't, heres a few vids of his recent 'Ring outing. I know it helps that the geezer can seriously drive, but while you watch it, just remember its only a 1.6!
http://lee.valvers.com (http://lee.valvers.com/)
E16SE to save the ~40kgs between the front wheels. Its more satisfying beating a higher powered car with only a 1.6 under the bonnet.
EDIT Dar:- I've seen previous vids of your car, goes like a rocket in a straight line!
EDIT - Yup your right, of course its an XE so its a super duper fast car. They don't handle though. I was wondering why I never ever caught anything up through the bends and why I have to slow down so much and use lots of lock.
http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/sit_in_corner.jpg
General Baxter
24-06-06, 02:14 PM
what are you all on about, you all know that a pushrod with weber twin 48's on will wip any cars ass lol
http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/quitbitchin.jpg
Philsutton
24-06-06, 06:07 PM
when done right big block novas will handle nigh on the same as the small blocks plus be faster on the straights, its the G-Max 40mm lowering springs - no welding brigade that gives the big blocks a bad rep.
what are you all on about, you all know that a pushrod with weber twin 48's on will wip any cars ass lol
you been looking at my new motor baxter ???
dhdev (Oli)
25-06-06, 12:33 AM
Can't believe i'm letting myself get lured into this debate yet again :roll: lol
If you took two standard 1.2 nova's fitted one with a 2.0l and one with a 1.6, the 2.0l would be faster in a straight line and the 1.6 would handle better, fact.
If you were to then tune the 1.6, you could increase the straight line performance to that of a standard 2.0l and still out handle it. fact.
If however you were to improve the suspension set-up on the 2.0l you could make it handle as well as the 1.6l. fact.
So ultimately the choice is yours as to whether you prefer the big block or small block. If you have a small block you will always have to try harder (e.g spend more money) on making the thing more powerful in order to match the perfrmance of the 2.0l. On the other hand if you have a big block, you will have to try harder to make it handle as well as a small block.
A big block CAN handle (e.g Dar's )
A small block CAN be fast in a straight line (e.g Mine:D )
Rant over :thumb:
and that just about caps off this tread, so it would seem value for money and handling to straight line speed - start with a corsa GSi lol
A
ps: lee's 16XE is awesome!
just found out that the corsa C 1.8 16v SRi engine is a small block - 140bhp as standard and small block weight, ace! but try finding one....
A
And the cost..
And wiring..
and then wiring, etc etc, that would be fun..... not
OK I've owned 3 1600's and 2 xe's, and would like to put my two penneth in.
If you tuned a 1600 to xe power, you'll be skint and get $hite fuel economy (you'll be on carbs), need uprated shafts, terrible noise on the motorway, a lumpy drive around town the unreliability of what will be a nigh-on race spec engine, not easy to have work done on it because it's such a specialised lump, insurance issues, mileage limits on the components?and you are at the top of development on the engine, can't go much further without MEGA money!
OR fit an XE, you'll still be skint cos you need brakes/mounts/seam welding etc, as well as the shafts, HAL DECENT fuel economy, quiet (if u want it to be!) quite fefined around town, reliable, do stellar mileage and keep on going, and 150bhp out-of-the box, and you can STILL take it further at a later date, eg carbs/tb's. You could drive it regularly (i know there are valver daily drivers out there!!) and live with it...
Just my opinion, and I'll stick to it!:tard:
So Dans engine is lumpy/unreliable/bad on fuel etc??? lmao
Its so "awful" that almost every road trip ive been on in it ive fallen asleep, yet the thing handles like a dream round track etc so tis nto setup to be comfy.
Its so driveable you can use 5th from about 10mph all the way to the limiter cleanly
The fuel economy is ace... when not giving it death its WAY better than my omega ever was (circa 35mpg which is what id expect from an Xe nova too)
As for the reliablity.
It had a tweek at a RR for the first time in 3 years last weekend and its hardly changed at all. I belive hes done ohhhhh 60K on that engine too...
Similar can be said for jims appart from the 60K as its not driven too much lol.
but hey the good old wives tales about carbs and tuned engines can carry on if they like but its jsut funny to keep hearing them ;)
two exceptions then :p
its not intangable to see that a properly setup vehicle will hardly need touching bar the usual service items is it.... come on take OLD 2.0 engines from the 60's and compare them to todays engines. They are strucutrally very similar but they are setup right so go on "forever". same goes for tuning engines... but hey cant expect everyone to understand engineering lol
mad-driver
27-06-06, 09:47 AM
I must say ever since my mate Lyf had an XE'd Nova, i have wanted one, purely for the fact that it was stupidly quick, and looked like a bag of sh** lol, which is why it was so funny everytime we pasted the **** of something 'quicker'. I must say however since i bought my car as a 1400SR, that is how it has stayed, and will do until the engine can bring me no more power. I for one am up for a challenge, and i like the idea of getting good performance out of the original engine, which surprises people when they see it go. Mustn't get too bigheaded though its only a 1400 lol, but thats the way i see it.
Maybe one day i will XE a Nova but not yet :)
One more thing Lee's Nova round Nurby is fappin awesome!:thumb:
I must say ever since my mate Lyf had an XE'd Nova, i have wanted one, purely for the fact that it was stupidly quick, and looked like a bag of sh** lol, which is why it was so funny everytime we pasted the **** of something 'quicker'. I must say however since i bought my car as a 1400SR, that is how it has stayed, and will do until the engine can bring me no more power. I for one am up for a challenge, and i like the idea of getting good performance out of the original engine, which surprises people when they see it go. Mustn't get too bigheaded though its only a 1400 lol, but thats the way i see it.
Maybe one day i will XE a Nova but not yet :)
One more thing Lee's Nova round Nurby is fappin awesome!:thumb:
Im with you mad, small block 8valve power is ace around town! lol
I added up my reciepts last night and got to ?6239.02, and there's still over ?1k of receipts in my hotmail account from ebay so i figured why stop now! Money is no option for me i just like to have fun in my car as its only used on the weekends now anyway!
I've had more fun driving a 1400SR then any other car ever! So XE, no, not just yet im afriad. :thumb: :p
mad-driver
27-06-06, 10:16 AM
My dad's car as twice the power mine does and he still enjoys driving mine more, i love country lane driving, and the full bilstein kit i intend on having soon will help with that, as springs just arent upto the job.
Not saying i wouldnt have an XE, but my car has just enough power to handle. And i beat Lyf in his XE back from Lutterworth once :D
Marland your pathetic.... why delete posts (esp when one was quoted)... moron.
hope you dont dehydrate :p
dhdev (Oli)
27-06-06, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by RJM25R
OK I've owned 3 1600's and 2 xe's, and would like to put my two penneth in.
If you tuned a 1600 to xe power, you'll be skint and get $hite fuel economy (you'll be on carbs), need uprated shafts, terrible noise on the motorway, a lumpy drive around town the unreliability of what will be a nigh-on race spec engine, not easy to have work done on it because it's such a specialised lump, insurance issues, mileage limits on the components?and you are at the top of development on the engine, can't go much further without MEGA money!
:roll: :roll: :roll:
My small block XE puts out 167bhp and is on throttle bodies not carbs. Not lumpy at all, completely reliable, runs standard 1.2 shafts, couldn't be easier to work on (certainly easier than a standard engine!) Loads more potential (270bhp possible) and i have had over 50mpg out of it!
craig green
27-06-06, 02:06 PM
270bhp potential from baby XE? tell SBD they havent got that far yet!
Cost a lot more than an 2.0xe to get to 167bhp I think you'd agree....:wtf: And the torque isn't as strong, or is that another old wives tale?
Fuel economy I'm very impressed at over 50mpg! A VW Golf Sport 1.9 TDI and 6 speed gearbox (Long 6th gear) is only in the late 40's on the motorway! My 2.0 TDI Touran will get about 40 mpg average!!!
I'd still have an XE because it's cheaper and easier. Obviously I have imagined the reliability issues people have had with hi-spec cars!!
always quote rickkkky incase it goes walkies lol
Cost a lot more than an xe to get to 167bhp I think you'd agree....:wtf:
Fuel economy I'm very impressed at over 50mpg! A VW Golf Sport 1.9 TDI and 6 speed gearbox (Long 6th gear) is only in the late 40's on the motorway! My Touran will get about 40 mpg averag!!!
these modern "fast" disels are setup to give better power at the sacrifice of fuel economy...also the NEDC kinda makes you burn off a little more fuel to get a cleaner run in some cases. The DPF kitted cars will also do "worse" fuel economy as they will be buning LOADS of diesel down the post injection to burn off the DPF unit, so yay your emissions will be less but your fuel bill will go up lol
i can easily see how a 1.6 on TB's can easily achieve 50mpg in a nice light car on part throttle etc. obv foot on the floor will give naff all but thats simple vehicle behaviour regardless of the car
dhdev (Oli)
27-06-06, 03:29 PM
270bhp potential from baby XE? tell SBD they havent got that far yet!
My bad, SBD used to quote nigh-on 270bhp, i see they've revised that to 241bhp.:thumb:
and yes RJM25R it does cost more, i didn't argue that point, but if you had a big block you'd need to spend extra on the handling to match the small block, as i stated in an earlier post. ;)
dhdev (Oli)
27-06-06, 03:36 PM
The fuel economy was 52mpg Newquay and back around 520mile round trip, at appox 60-65mph :D
On usual ring trips it averages about 35-40mpg at approx a lot more than 60mph lol
^^ thats still damn fine MPG from 100brake per litre!!!
dhdev (Oli)
27-06-06, 03:51 PM
^^ thats still damn fine MPG from 100brake per litre!!!
Thats cos its not a fatty bum bum lol
OK I've owned 3 1600's and 2 xe's, and would like to put my two penneth in.
If you tuned a 1600 to xe power, you'll be skint and get $hite fuel economy (you'll be on carbs), need uprated shafts, terrible noise on the motorway, a lumpy drive around town the unreliability of what will be a nigh-on race spec engine, not easy to have work done on it because it's such a specialised lump, insurance issues, mileage limits on the components?
Right then, my turn to give mr marland a raping lol lol .
1. Fuel economy is aroud 35mpg normal driving and down to 25-27 mpg on track all day.
2. shafts, hello ? i think not
3. lumpy? pmsl, mine purs like a standard motor and pulls from 16mph in 5th smoothly and strongly
4. reliability, it was finally proven on saturday amongst a few of us at a r/r that 3 yrs after my last tune (and on different rollers) the car ran the same torque but was a whole 5bhp down which was down to overfuelling at the very very top rpm's, so a tweak with the carbs and it was back on full form.
5. my engine has now done 50k in its present form, with lots of abuse dished out at it. Only change was the cam but that has done alot of the 50k, only thing to wear was the vernier pulley as that i had on the engine before i did the rebuild and i gave that 100k worth of abuse in total lol.
Alas my quest is now over regarding all the wives tales being squashed, but it did prove them to mostly be a crock of sh*te :thumb:
Welsh Dan
27-06-06, 10:12 PM
I want Dan's setup (once I can insure it) :).
mad-driver
27-06-06, 10:19 PM
I want Dan's setup full stop lol
mad-driver
27-06-06, 10:23 PM
The fuel economy was 52mpg Newquay and back around 520mile round trip, at appox 60-65mph :D
On usual ring trips it averages about 35-40mpg at approx a lot more than 60mph lol
Very good mpg infact...i dont get any where near that at the minute lol
nyabinghi
28-06-06, 03:18 PM
Me I Say E16let !!!!!
LMAO I have been in Dans car and its awesome and pulls as well as a XE but i would still just slap a xe in to have the same pull and more top end and more money in my pocket.
And as for the 1400 & 1600 16v they ARE unreliable and this is PROVEN many many times by MANY people.
a screw in the inlet cant really be the engines fault can it :p
No not at all wasnt refering to that im going on about nigh on 95% of the small block 16v's doing steam seals nigh on every 20k miles and when you start tuning them the reliability goes donwhill fast,
Nearly all the highly tuned ones are annualy rebuilt.
Welsh Dan
06-07-06, 10:41 PM
On that note, will a c16xe take a c20xe head?
no funnily enough... BIG BLOCK/SMALL BLOCK again :wall: lol
Welsh Dan
06-07-06, 10:44 PM
lol, sorry I thought the c16xe was big block, obviously I was wrong. :)
Nope hence the gay term baby valver
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