1.4 kent cam on 1.3?

[beavy69]

What would I need (if anything?) to fit a 1.4 kent supersports camshaft (see table for spec below) to a 1.3L or is this a silly idea?

Application (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Power Band (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Cam Lift(mm) (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Valve Lift(mm) (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Duration (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Timing (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Full Lift (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)VC (mm) (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)LTDC (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Required Parts (http://www.kentcams.com/product/prodDets.aspx?PartNum=NVO63&CatID=1&PartID=264&VehPartID=5826&ModEngID=650#)Supersports3000-70006.9811.80312 Deg 52/80 80/52104 Deg 0.00N/ACF20 / VS30

[mikey14sr]

duration's a bit long but to fit it you would want a set of new followers, A cambelt, camshaft front oil seal and distributor o ring. And to make it worthwhile fitting that spec of cam a set of t40's and a fully worked up head.

[Adam]

Quite a wild cam, especially if you have the standard 1300 head/carb etc?

[womble sri]

i think you might have to run solid lifters with that beast. i wouldnt bung it in a standard engine otherwise it will be as if it has got major turbo lag!

[Stuart]

I looked at that cam briefly.. Really needs solids and a rude engine to back it up. Id suggest a Piper BP300 if you want to play about at that kind of duration. OR a catcams high 290's cam.

[beavy69]

It'll probably go on top of a big valve worked 1.3 head with a bank of 43mm Mikuni bike carbs and a 4 into 1 manifold for the zorst. That outa sort it?

Whats the difference between solid lifters and normal? Does anyone know roughly how much a set would cost?

would I need uprated springs?

Can that duration damage the valves? Whats the benifit/idea of longer duration as opposed to say higher lift then?

[Stuart]

yes uprated springs would be ideal.
Solids can cost not much if you DIY upto about ?300ish for some of the easier to use ones. Plus all the setup time for that (lots of dry builds)

it would be happiest revving at7500+ which means the lifters will jack up and wreck things if you kept on std style hydraulics....

your call.

[mikey14sr]

Whats the difference between solid lifters and normal? Does anyone know roughly how much a set would cost?
Normal being hydraulic take up the clearance in the valve trein automaticaly, Solids usualy need shims placing underneath them to get the correct clearance.

would I need uprated springs?
Possibly

Can that duration damage the valves?
Depends on the valve-to-piston clearance, usualy only a problem at high revs I think.

[Stuart]

put it this way, i had to have a custom grind of a Catcam 306Degree solid profile cam since there was too much lift at tdc and too much peak lift lol. it gets to peak lift in naff all degrees and sits there for ages. the cam i have litterally has square edges.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/slindborg/IMG_1224.jpg

[beavy69]

WTF ?300 for the solids! I could make my own but don't have access to a mill. What cam n kit would everyone reccommend for good performance with my setup but somthing less risky without too much fluking about and expense?

[dhdev (Oli)]

put it this way, i had to have a custom grind of a Catcam 306Degree solid profile cam since there was too much lift at tdc and too much peak lift lol. it gets to peak lift in naff all degrees and sits there for ages. the cam i have litterally has square edges.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/slindborg/IMG_1224.jpg

Lovin the lobeslol lol lol Mine look more easter egg like:( lol

[Stuart]

?250-300 is about par for the course on adjsutable solids... you could get fixed solids and shim them for about ?200 but then shimming is a slut of a job.
My solids were home made ;)

[mikey14sr]

It'll probably go on top of a big valve worked 1.3 head with a bank of 43mm Mikuni bike carbs and a 4 into 1 manifold for the zorst. That outa sort it?
To go with that plan I'd use what I've got, a piper bp285, It gives a little more lift than the nvo63, and is designed for use with T40's apparently, so should suit those bike carbs beautifully.

[beavy69]

what engine have you got mike?

[mikey14sr]

1300 with the cam i mentioned and a 32/34 weber, rr'd in january with supposedly 85bhp at the fly, with knackered rings.

[beavy69]

aside from the cam and 32/34 have you done anything else to get that 85bhp?

[mikey14sr]

The heads been skimmed a bit and a 1.4 dizzy but thats it, it still runs a standard air filter and exhaust system! To be honest I think the rolling road I went to might have been a little optimistic.

[beavy69]

yeah id agree, thats why I asked, but then you did say that was at the fly wheel not the wheels?

[mikey14sr]

Yeah I'm sure it was at the flywheel, the standard figure for the 1.3 is 70 so it sounds abought right to me.

[beavy69]

whats the best everyones seen out of a 1.3?

[Geth]

the cam i have litterally has square edges.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/slindborg/IMG_1224.jpg

Wow!!! :eek:

[Adam]

whats the best everyones seen out of a 1.3?
Probably Keith Robinsons.
119bhp iirc.But i think its re-bored to 1389cc, so really a 1.4.

[beavy69]

So whats the problem with hydrawlic lifters. I read on some site that they need re drilling so that the oil can still flow into them at high revs. Is that the only problem?

[Adam]

At high revs, oil pressure can cause the lifter to hold the the valve open when normally it should be shut as soon as the cam lobe leaves the rocker (which a piston wont like,Lol)

I think thats correct anyway.

[beavy69]

does anyone know if it could be possible to lock some hydrawlic lifters to make em solid?

I don't know as I've never even looked at one up close.

[mikey14sr]

You can weld them up but you then need to adjust the clearance via shims, I think Stuart has done this on his little project.

[Stuart]

;)
i have indeed.

you need to cut the top of the outer bucket down a little (5mm i belive, then weld in the plunger in at approx 26mm (thats complete length), make the welds V good, then grind the excess down so the rocker can move a long way down without catching etc. then shim the bottom of the lifter hole to get the right clearence for the cam.. thats the layman approach and im sure some engine builders whould cringe at that simple build saying you lose X bhp from incorrect this and that. to be honest it not going to be much more than 3bhp so no worries there.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/slindborg/IMG_1223.jpg

getting the shims is fun.. cost me ?100 as i did them, werent quite right so i had a fresh set made etc. it takes AGES lol

[beavy69]

so how much extra bhp do you rekkon you get with that rather than say a piper 285 (which I believe you can run on standard lifters n springs etc is that right?) for it to be worth all that fluking about?

[Stuart]

for what im doing i honestly belive the 285 will run out of steam at7K

well look at it this way.

Jim and Dans engines are near enough identicle bar the cams.
Dan has a kent AST2 (285 deg) and it runs amazingly but loses intrest at 7K. Jim has a piper bp300 (300 deg) and again amazing but pulls way past 7K to atleast 8K we rekon...

the cam totally depends on what you want from the car

[womble sri]

i use the bp 300 in my 1.4 but with twin carbs i honestly think you would regret putting one in a 1.3 with a twin choke webber mine is lumpy as feck you have to half throttle until 3.5k other wise it just gurgles and slows down but as soon as you get there it takes off and revs right off the clock :eek:

[mikey14sr]

Mine doesn't do much untill 2500 then it pulls nicely up to 7000 on full throttle, if you ease it up the revs it sounds glorious at 3500 as the second choke kicks in.

[beavy69]

do you reckon i'll need new rockers/lifters/springs for that piper 285 mike?

what have you got if anything?

[mikey14sr]

As it was a brand new cam I put new followers in to avoid any marks on the old ones wearing the cam lobes to quickly. I overhauled the lifters as per the haynes instructions and the origional valve springs seemed to be ok so left them in.

[beavy69]

how long have you had it in now? Any problems?

It seems like a good compromise as I don't have the time or money to buy/make and maintain solids.

[mikey14sr]

It's been on and running since christmas, done about 700 miles/200 hours running and is all fine (apart from I've killed the rings thanks to an overfueling carb and leaving it too long before getting it set up properly, also the bottom end has done about 130k!)

[beavy69]

do you mean a rich mix or too much fuel as I don't want to fit bike carbs if its gonna do that?!

[mikey14sr]

The carb was set waay too rich and I left it too long before sorting it out. As long as you get them set up properly as soon as you can you'll be fine with those bike carbs. After doing any mod like this you should have a rolling road tune to get everything set right, I just left it too long, and I shouldn't really have done all the top end and put it onto such an old worn block.

[beavy69]

Ope yo manage to sort it mate. Maybe try some thicker oil in the mean time, or some of that oil clinging additive stuff should buy you some time.

[mikey14sr]

Nah just took it off the road for now, gonna get a full 1.4 engine later in the year to rebuild into my ideal spec.

[womble sri]

id get uprated spring because the extra lift means the springs will be under more compression so depending on what cam you go for it will be a must.