Building track car which engine is better

[tracknova]

2.0l 16v or the 2.0l turbo??

seems alot of peeps choose the 2.0l 16v conversion, which is easier?? and which is the better engine for a track car??

currently on the lookout for a donor car (but funds are v.low at the moment, but i will get one in the next couple of months) been doing my homework and ive seen the usual places rust occurs (not bothered as i work in a bodyshop anyway) but is there any other main things to look out for??

plus heard i need a front end strengthening kit to beef up the chassis to accomodate the new engine, can the same kit be used for either the turbo/non-turbo engines

one more question for the time being, any kits for an all round brake setup or just uprate the frint brakes off a different vaux eg astra or calibra

thanks for the help in advance
Steve

[Stuart]

N/A for track use imo... turbo only for the bigger tracks with fewer corners lol

[Lee]

Are they your only choices? Totally agree with Stu, N/A is better for track use as you have a lot more revs to play with.

But have you not considered the 1.6 8v or 16v? Dont assume the big blocks are best for a track Nova. Ive been owned by a 1.4 on a sprint track and i was running my 190bhp XE, mainly due to my inferior tyres and suspension and an XE hanging off the front :lol:

(Before you start, Shut it benji, your arse is grass this year, i spotted your post on Roybacer. You didnt leave me behind, you just held me off. Either way, still mucho embarrassing :lol:)

Dont pigeonhole your ideas, talk to peeps like Dan_R, Jim, Keith Robinson on here, and Lee Hearsey at PVG, all cars are awesome examples of 8v and 16v 1.6's, and show you dont need 4 bottles of coke to be fast!

But at the same time, XE's are great fun, and deliver 150bhp with no modding needed, so to go fast cheaply, you cant fault them, and its easier to push way past the 200bhp mark. :lol:

[novarobbo]

think properly.. you want to use it as a track car with corners therefore you deffo want it too handle good, this basically will leave out the 2.0 16v (C20XE) and the 2.0 16v turbo (C20LET) far too much weight for a good track toy.. but the 1.6 16v (C16XE or X16XE) less weight good tuning potential.. i'd deffo go for the 1.6 16v (C16XE) far better engine for a nova imo.. and afaik they do a turbo kit for them too..

hope this helps.. :) :)

:lol: bet people dont like me saying this :lol:

[tracknova]

^^^still that is an idea, a nice compromise, lightweight 1.6 but with a turbo, hmmmmm interesting

only thought about 2.0l engines cos of the kits to bolt them straight in that are available,along with the 150bhp straight out of the box without tuning plus no need to strengthen the chassis for the 2.0l engine weight


reason is most peeps at work have ther own track cars they've built, feeling a bit left out you see lol,

where can i get the link to a 1.6 turbo kit plus will this process be more expensive to tune rather than dump in a ready 2.0ltr

[tracknova]

not only that but how much bhp can i expect from a tuned 1.6 turbo lump, i know XE and LETS can easily push 2-250 just wondering how they compare

[Philsutton]

If your building a track car then you will set it right im guessing, so all this talk of an extra 4 tons over the front wheels arent that much of an issue. Im building a corsa 2.0 turbo for a track car, shall see how that turns out. Imo the cheapest way is to put in a 2.0 litre as to turbo a 1.6 its going to cost a fair bit when done right.

[Stuart]

neil saw 180ish from his 1.6 8V and that was waht id consider a proper build with proper Low compression and mappable management etc...

a bloke called matheaus on mig does the kits for a 1.6 16v

but in all fairness a track car dosent need to be turbo'd, so its gonna be cheaper and more reliable to tune N/A imo

[tracknova]

just seen Mark Beeson Lee Reynolds novas, i think jealously is kicking in :)

[Dan]

a fast track car isnt just based on power lol. The biggest and most important factors are handling and grip. To have a 6 point cage, decent diff (platediff prefered by myself) and coilovers (maybe stitch weld the shell) etc the benefits are far greater than a few bhp. You could have 200/250/300bhp and still get raped per lap by myself or one of the others if you havent got a good chassis setup to start with

[burgo]

if i were building a track car id probably use a 1.6 16v and tune it to the 160/170 bhp. would make it abit of an animal

[tracknova]

one thing phil mentioned aswell, tuning a 1.6 will be pretty costly and i dont really want expenses to go mad on this one, i'll probs stick to a 2.0l 16v to start, just to be able to rely on reliablity plus decent power without tuning hassle

chassis wise im not worried, welding shouldnt be a mountain of a task and iv already looked at rollcages off the links section, reckon i should bother with door bars?

[burgo]

na if its a 1.6 16v then a set of throttle bodies, cams and decent exhuast gets you to 150bhp

[novarobbo]

^^^still that is an idea, a nice compromise, lightweight 1.6 but with a turbo, hmmmmm interesting

good idea as what i said but to be fair it will cost more than a 2.0 16v (C20XE)


only thought about 2.0l engines cos of the kits to bolt them straight in that are available,along with the 150bhp straight out of the box without tuning plus no need to strengthen the chassis for the 2.0l engine weight

i agree with what your saying here, it will be far cheaper/easier to put the 2.0 16v (C20XE) engine in ect.. than a 1.6 16v (C16XE)


reason is most peeps at work have ther own track cars they've built, feeling a bit left out you see lol,

lol.. i would be too :lol: :lol:


where can i get the link to a 1.6 turbo kit plus will this process be more expensive to tune rather than dump in a ready 2.0ltr

there are afew places what sell them and there a very good revvy engine... better for the corners ect.. ive heard on MIG there is sombody with the 1.6 16v (C16XE) tuned to 250bhp.. theres also somthing about a 1.4 16v (X14XE) being tuned to 250bhp.. it all depends on how deep your pockets are.. lol

easiest way is redtop :D

again hope ive helped :lol:

[Lee]

[quote=tracknova]theres also somthing about a 1.4 16v (X14XE) being tuned to 250bhp..


Im guessing thats Big Russ? that bugger will rev to 9000 RPM :lol:

At the end of the day, youll be governed by budget. If you want to spend as little as possible, fit a 2.0 XE, find some used coilovers, fit 2.0 brakes with some decent discs and pads, fit a cage to assist solidness, chop out as much weight as you can and get hold of some decent tyres.

If youve got more money to spend, id develop a 1.6 XE. in hindsight, i wish Id started with this engine, but as has been mentioned, with a bit of spending, you can get a 2.0 XE to handle well.

[novarobbo]

Im guessing thats Big Russ? that bugger will rev to 9000 RPM :lol:

At the end of the day, youll be governed by budget. If you want to spend as little as possible, fit a 2.0 XE, find some used coilovers, fit 2.0 brakes with some decent discs and pads, fit a cage to assist solidness, chop out as much weight as you can and get hold of some decent tyres.

yup by far the easiest


If youve got more money to spend, id develop a 1.6 XE. in hindsight, i wish Id started with this engine, but as has been mentioned, with a bit of spending, you can get a 2.0 XE to handle well.

it wil take abit to get an 2.0 16v (C20XE) nova to handle very good.. but like you say if you have the money its far better to got get your self a 1.6 16v (C16XE)

[Lee]

it will take abit to get an 2.0 16v (C20XE) nova to handle very good..

Namely not scrimping on suspension and tyres, and an LSD Minimum. (oh, and throwing away the ARB lol)

[Nick]

Don't rule out a 1.6 8v

You'l save money on not needing a plate kit, so much shell prep, the initial cost of the engine and any extra labour you may require in using a more difficult to install engine.

Shopping list.

1.6 8v (rebuild the bottom end, LB the crank and flywheel, hone it e.t.c arp rodbolts)
Exhaust system
Blydenstein 2nd hand head, give it a clean up
Set of T40's and a cam to suit.

not really expensive and it'l be a competant engine on a track. Strip the car and use some good suspension.

the C16XE's are good engines too - i'd to one of these if i was to start fresh.

The XE is good - But your going to loose out a little on the handling.

[tracknova]

At the end of the day, youll be governed by budget. If you want to spend as little as possible, fit a 2.0 XE, find some used coilovers, fit 2.0 brakes with some decent discs and pads, fit a cage to assist solidness, chop out as much weight as you can and get hold of some decent tyres.

If youve got more money to spend, id develop a 1.6 XE. in hindsight, i wish Id started with this engine, but as has been mentioned, with a bit of spending, you can get a 2.0 XE to handle well.

i am being governed by budget, labour wise for the shell is not a problem i work in a bodyshop so thats taken care of along with stripping out weight, so it might be the 2.0 xe as a start, then look for a 1.6 after the car is finished and rebuild it up in my spare time (got to have another project after the nova is done lol) then dump that in when i have the cash to do this of course

cages im looking at (bother with the door bars?)

discs and pads i can get the part department to scurry around and find for me tyres aswell hopefully

before i start looking around for the car itself, is ther anything else apart from the usual rust spots i should know about or look for??

oh one more thing, love the digi dash look, which cars do they come out of and are they an easy fit??

[Lee]

Thats as good a plan as any, and in which case, when you fit the 2.0, use an adaptor bracket for the engine mount, dont chop it off and re weld it which is the better way to do it. This will make your life a lot easier when you come to put the 1.6 in later on.

Door bars? Personal preference IMO. If your just doing trackdays, your not in a competitive environment, therefore the chances of someone slamming into the side of you are remote (although not uncommon at Coombe, the magnet for the worst drivers on the planet). Obviously they will make the car stiffer, but heavier at the same time.

As far as a shell goes, Novas always go around the rear arches, around the battery tray, look around the front turrets, and along the boot floor for poor crash damage repairs. Check the rear turrets as well. Doors always rot out from the bottom, but thats not so much of an issue as replacement doors can be aquired. Youll be doing a lot of welding in the bay, so if any rot has started taking hold in here, it shouldnt be too hard to remedy it when you start seam welding and plating it up (see XE fitting guide on this site) If your mates a good welder, take him with you to view the car, big easy to repair rust holes are useful barganing tools! :wink:

Some other stuff to consider...

If you can, get a battery box (demon tweeks) and whack the battery in the back to aid weight distribution. Remove the heater and matrix, and chop out the firewall/bulkhead. It opens up the bay nicely and you lose some metal which is always good!

When you get your brakes, dont buy EBC greenstuff pads. They are utterly shite! Go for some pagid FR pads from Courtenay. They also do custom grooved brembo discs which give deeper grooves which = more surface area = more cooling and more pad deposits got rid of.

Get a set of Poly Bushes from Rally Design, and if you can afford it, some alloy engine mounts from Protec. Best mod I ever did to mine!

Wouldnt reccommend a digi dash for a track car, but if you go for one, youll find them in Astra 2 GTE's. They go in easily.

I use SR clocks. It will tell me if ive got an oil problem with a red light, i have a temp guage and i have a fuel guage. Thats all I need. If i can be arsed ill sort the speedo and rev counter out at some point LOL

That should be enough to get you started, ive probly missed a few things, but im half cut as usual :lol:

Then get your arse over to PVG and book up on an event! :lol:

[tracknova]

thats practically all my questions answered cheers for that, i dont need the a mate to look at the shell, i do welding myself lol

cheers for all the help guys :D