How much power can you take from a 1200???????

[novamadman]

May seem pointless to some people but just how much power do you think can be taken from a 1200 engine? Withut running twin forties using a weber single carb. Any internal mods money no object?

WHAT BHP?

[novamadcars]

ive herd that a 1.3 sr carb and manifold can make a diffrence as im going 2 do this 2 my 1.2 till i can afford a bigger engine

[novamadman]

ive herd that a 1.3 sr carb and manifold can make a diffrence as im going 2 do this 2 my 1.2 till i can afford a bigger engine

Im talking about bvh, lightend and balanced bottom end, cam, e.tc e.t.c

What is the best things to do to get every last bit of power and does anyone know what the best gearbox set up is for a 1200 nova is? Someone said that f13 guts in an f10 box will give lots of acceleration? anyone know?

Shane

[novamadcars]

well mate your best bet will be 2 go for a 1.3 may b a 1.3 as you can only puss a 1.2 so far if you know what i mean

[jkhilton]

have a look in Technical, there are guides for tuning a 1.2....

http://www.novaload.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=71245

[novamadcars]

good call jkhilton :D

[burgo]

to me it sounds like he wants more power without insurance knowing and if im right then internal mods wont get you as much as your hoping for. if money was no object then just fit a bigger engine and pay the extra insurance. would be cheaper in the long run

[novamadman]

I am looking for the cheap insurance but i can get the work (head e.t.c) done 10 times cheaper than i usually would have to pay so theres no point in missing that chance. All i wanted to know was if anyone had tuned the life out of a 1200 and what all they done. Shane

[Stuart]

burgo is probably sniffing down the right path there lol.


i did a bit of theory work at uni and worked otu that you "could" possibly haul about 90bhp from a 1.2 with a good port job, decent manifold, 1.3 inlet and modded pieburg carb (enlarged venturies), a medium lairy cam (not too much as it wont breathe right at high revs and the samll carb) etc..

but thinking back i think 90 might have been a tad optomistic and its probably mroe like 80ish with a small carb.

read the guide.

[S_Gault]

blueprinted one can be made to produce around 80hp, theory never holds true as valve effeicencies are never even close to 100%, and its dependant on bearing clearances.

the airflow is available for over 110bhp but the valve timing is too soft.

a race prepped on can be pursuaded to give over 120bhp

[SRimon]

i swear there used to be like a 160bhp 1.2 going round, was turbo'd etc, but it was just done to see what sorta power you can get

[Stuart]

a race prepped on can be pursuaded to give over 120bhp

through a pierburg/weber twinchoke job?

[Snowface]

i was getting 78bhp/litre from my 1.3.

If you got a 1.4sri head skimmed and worked and some 40's with a good cam 90bhp+ should be straight forward.

[S_Gault]

twinchoke will restrict it to 100ish, you are correct stuart

but never bore out the chokes one them

[Stuart]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

meh over 100bhp an ill be happy lmao...

[wisewood]

lmfao @ all the conflicting information

[craig green]

It would never be worth it, for the cost of a 2nd hand 1300 the power delivery is far better. & any money spent on mods for the 1.2 would deliver larger gains on the 1.3.

However Ive seen a modded 1.2 OHC sleeved to 1.0 & turbocharged. Out put was 151bhp IIRC

[Stuart]

yeah because tuning stuff for the sheer "fun" of it is pointless :roll:

[Give it some rev]

y is it pointless for??? how many times have u seen a nova with a valver in it???? thats y mk2 astra gte 16v's r so rare now coz every boy racer and bright spark in the land has come up with the same plan of attack, 'lets put a 16v in a nova'

when was the last time u seen a 1200 being tuned ???
yes its not worth it seens you can go faster for the same amout of money but u do it coz its something different !!!
and you could use the 1200 4 everyday use coz its economacal(cant spell sorry). im not saying that u cant use a 16v nova everyday, its just that do u really need 155bhp just 2 go 2 work in????

chris

[Mike.]

i'm in the process of tuning a 1.2 :lol:





seriously.

[Stuart]

y is it pointless for??? how many times have u seen a nova with a valver in it???? thats y mk2 astra gte 16v's r so rare now coz every boy racer and bright spark in the land has come up with the same plan of attack, 'lets put a 16v in a nova'

when was the last time u seen a 1200 being tuned ???
yes its not worth it seens you can go faster for the same amout of money but u do it coz its something different !!!
and you could use the 1200 4 everyday use coz its economacal(cant spell sorry). im not saying that u cant use a 16v nova everyday, its just that do u really need 155bhp just 2 go 2 work in????

chris


i can only assume you didnt see the rolleyes piss take smiley after my comment lol.


See my "antibies" in the 1.2 section ;)

[Jack]

its just that do u really need 155bhp just 2 go 2 work in????
I have 240bhp to go to work in lol

Its not so much about the engine economy its also about reliability - pulling say 80-100bhp from an engine that was only designed to do around 50 is putting excess strain on the components, they'll be more likely to fail. But I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, just expect people to ask 'why bother?' as there are easier routes if net power is your goal.

[krobinson]

I tuned the 1.3 because of insurance, then realised i could insure a larger engine.

I'm still very happy i did tho, as it supprised loads of much bigger engined cars, and its always a shock to them to learn its a 1.3 SR engine.

Shane. If i was you i'd do a plus 1mm overbored, use a big valve head (SRI, or group A spec 1.2) a piper 285 cam and a webber 32/34. Its gotta be more fun than standard, and should see you past ever 1.2 clio, corsa, 1.1 saxo etc, which is what everyone will be driving in your age group.

Keith

[novamadman]

Cheers Keith and "give it some rev" andstu for his advice on the emails. Ive got a head now heavily skimmed, ported, polished, big valves getting seated. Am researching where to get bottom end done without spending a complete fortune. Not sure about boring as yet. Ive got a few other bits and pieces like vernier pulley, heavy springs e.t.c and a few more things to get like a cam but im only really asking what other people like stu have done and what their advice would be. Thanks

Shane

[ade]

I dont understand why you'd want to do it all to a 1.2?

If it is just for insurance - then surely the money youd spend on it would end up being the same as sticking a slightly bigger engine (ie 1.4)

And if you think "internal" mods whont be detected by an insurance company - think again...if you crash at speed - that looks greater than the style of car they'll poke about...

and keep poking until they discover the mods...

then youre screwed...

Youre just better off declaring all that sh1te - you'll probably be surprised about how much it wont go up (depending on who youre with of course!)

Oh - and for reference - insurance company workers do come on these forums and do poke about - I know - I'm one of them

:D

Although I'm not an underwriter...

yet...

:twisted:

lol

[novamadman]

lol i havent thought of any of that yet. Basically im not like most other people i dont want an xe or similar although i woouldnt mind one either. Basically ive been rallying (very basic rallying) in a 1200 nova standard exhaust standard carb everythig apart from being blueprinted and a lightened flywheel the car is standard. Ive been rallying for a while now and want to see how much i could take from a 1200. I want to build one up and really and see what it can do. IS THAT SO BAD lol. Look at the engine spec of stuarts car - thats what i want to do maybe not as crazy as him. Some people are interested in buidling xe's or 1600's or 14's or 13's whatever - im intereted in building a 1200. It just so happens i am very good friends with a mad who is able to perform the mods internally to an engine at a fraction of a cost that yu would be charged going somewhere bigger. I wont name him as he does not do this for a living lets just say hes read a lot of books and done this a number of times on cars of his own. Sorry for writing so much by the way lol

I just want to do this it may be pointless to u and other people but im doing it

And for the insurance thing - it does come into it but its not one of the main reasons

[lee 16v]

i have a tuned 1.4 piper cam webber carb and a over bore or something
i didnt do the mods it was done to the sr i got to make into a 16v that ended up to be bent you can have it for ?175 if you come and get it no posting.

[Philsutton]

get it to terminal velocity by dropping out of a plane, should hit around the 200mph mark. How many people can say they did 200mph in a 1.2 nova and actually be telling the truth.

[lee 16v]

i think he would die, lol. but he could just watch it and tell people his nova did do 200mph he could even film it to prove it, lol.

[novamadman]

lmao

[Stuart]

phill im shocked..... and you studied physics too!!!!

TV is 125mph (give or take)

[m.d.]

phill im shocked..... and you studied physics too!!!!

TV is 125mph (give or take)

its 225 isnt it lol :wink:

tuning the 1.2 is not pointless at all, if you want to do it then why not, it will be a very peaky revy engine.

i mean if tuning a small engine is pointless then why are there so many minis with 850s to 1.4s doing so well in hillclimbs,

loads of people i know have bored there 1275 minis out to 1380, but then fitted steel rods and crank from a 1.0 (i think) to make it into a 1071 that revs past the 10k mark, its an awsome engine that is well known,

[Stuart]

here here :D tuning a 1200 is a genious idea :D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity

does say a sky diver with arms and legs out is 120ish,

i could calculate a nova nose down lmao, but i cant be arsed till i get back to work in Jan

[Philsutton]

TV will change on the shape, size an weight of an object, or have you already worked it out for a nova lol

[SRi-pete]

the insurance in NI is mad so thats why its better to tune the 1.2 than stick a 1.4 in it.

insurance on a 1.2 nova would be about 2995, thats wat i got quoted for a 17 year old on tpft.

[Jack]

A tuned 1.2 is less to insure than a std 1.4? :?

Ahh well. This is why I didn't get a nova as my first car lol

[SRi-pete]

i would say so yes,lol

also depends on if the person was to tell the insurance about the mods. how would they no if you had changed a cam etc.

[Jack]

also depends on if the person was to tell the insurance about the mods. how would they no if you had changed a cam etc.
Because when you crash they'll look and go "oh look, thats not a std cam" lol

Or come on a site like this, see your modified car, and go "funny, our records say yours is std" lol

[SRi-pete]

but do they actually go into the bother and start screwing to see wat cam you have in. :?

[krobinson]

but do they actually go into the bother and start screwing to see wat cam you have in. :?

No, they dont.

And the majority of underwriters havent a clue what a cam is, nevermind if you changed it.

Keith

[SRi-pete]

exactly, so they wouldnt no if you had internal work done, thats why peeps dont insure there mods, (sometimes anyway lol)

[SRi-pete]

exactly, so they wouldnt no if you had internal work done, thats why peeps dont insure there mods, (sometimes anyway lol)

[Jack]

And the majority of underwriters havent a clue what a cam is, nevermind if you changed it.
Underwriters may not but the engineers and assessors will.

As ade said in another post, if they suspect your car was going fast for what it is they'll look at it in detail. The insurance engineer apparently even had a look under the bonnet of mine when it was rear ended. Most of them will look for any reason to get out of paying up.

[lee 16v]

i think you will find they will if you crash and your car was doing more than it should they will do any thing just not to pay.
iv seen them do it they look around with there book trying to find something lol

1 old boy had to pay for a merc because his tyre was bold lol

[Dan]

exactly, so they wouldnt no if you had internal work done, thats why peeps dont insure there mods, (sometimes anyway lol)

BUT it is these same peeps that help push the premiums up along with everything else that causes it and makes the insurance so high for young drivers. I take it by your reply and defence of the issue keith that yours isnt fully declared then lol ?

[scott.parker]

phill im shocked..... and you studied physics too!!!!

TV is 125mph (give or take)

I though that no objetc could fall any faster to the ground then 130mph,so if a car is droped and a fether also they can only both reach the same speed??? :roll: :?

Scott

[Stuart]

in a total vaccum thats "true" (ish)

[m.d.]

two objecs will fall at ecactly the same rate if air resistance is not an issue,

ie a bowling ball and a pea will hit the floor at the same time from the same height,

but there always will be air resistance so its not that easy

[amggsi]

There was a good article in Total Vauxhall about tuning the 1.2 a while ago, I can't find which issue it was, maybe someone on here remembers it?

[Give it some rev]

yeah iv still got that issue but its on a crappy fuel injection engine (corsa)
most of it wud work on a carb engine

chris

[amggsi]

From what I reemember though it was giving sensible advice on the tuning of it without going OTT. I've been tripping over that issue for ages, but not when I go to look for it, it's no where to be seen! :twisted:

[Stuart]

also see aragorns guide in the tech guides part of the tech forum

[m.d.]

tuning the 1.2 properly is exactly the same as tuning a gte engine really,

the only difference is that you will gain more power with the 1.2 from making it rev rather than the torque that the 1.6 produces, due to the shorter stroke

[Give it some rev]

amggsi, your right, it tells yo how to produce power without spending fortunes and still remain driveable.

i agree, its exactly like tuning a GTE engine, its all about getting the engine to breath more efficiently and making it so it all stays in 1 piece. i agree with you again coz 1200's are not big enough to produce sh*t loads of torque, but hell, why wud you want sh*t loads of torque when you can rev the sh*t out of it instead :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

chris