View Full Version : How important is seam welding the bay on a 2litre conversion
The nova i bought is a 2litre, its in a 1.2 body. Im not sure if its been seam welded or not, Does this realy need to be done?
I was looking at this site;
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.topbuzz1.carenthusiasts.co.uk/mods/gsi_bumper/gsi_bumper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.topbuzz1.carenthusiasts.co.uk/mods/external.htm&h=75&w=100&sz=4&tbnid=GO9dMeXMxSsJ:&tbnh=57&tbnw=77&hl=en&start=21&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnova%2Bgsi%2Bfront%26start%3D20%26svn um%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN
and the bloke says if the bay isnt prepared properly it will split and crack and just turn to shit. Since i dont have the means to take the engine out is it possible to give the bay the strenght it needs with the engine in?
Would a strut brace do anything to help and is all this really necessary?
thanks again.
if its not seam welded the engine bay will pull itself apart and fuck itself. a strut brace will do sweet FA
without seam welding or strengthening the engine bay somewhat the additional power will buckle the engine bay area (as mentioned above) - this is the same as twisting the chassis and will write off your car.
If its got a 2 ltr fitted you'll need to remove it and seam weld or fit strengthening plates (harry hockley (is that right?) make kits)
Any decent garage can do this for you for about ?250 - ?300 approx inc respray of bay.
PLEASE make sure youre cars insured as a 2ltr - if its not and youre driving it and the engine pulls itself off its mounts and you spin and crash and kill someone you WILL go down for it! The least you'll be uninsured and the police are really clamping down on that - jailable offence too...
Funny how I have been driving my XE on carbs with no seam welding for months (including 1/4 miles etc) and the bay looks like the day I put it in, same with the XE SR I had before that and that was a total rust bucket. I haven't seen one that has pulled itself apart but for it to do that it must be rotten as fuck!! :o
chris gsi
29-11-05, 12:45 PM
when i built my nova i stich welded and fitted a harry hockley plate kit to give it more strength ti stop the chances of it ripping apart
I've seen a torn A pillar due to the XE engine in an unseam welded car, so good luck to those who don't seam weld!
I've seen a torn A pillar due to the XE engine in an unseam welded car, so good luck to those who don't seam weld!
Well three cars out of three have been fine so i'll carry on taking my chances for now.
Thats fine Lee, just saying what I've seen.
I know that I'd rather have safety and better handling due to a stiffer engine bay, over a wrecked car!
Good Luck!
On the flip side though if its seam welded and you bump it its going to push the roof up and totally wreck the shell whereas you may get away with it without the welding. Depends if you are on a budget I suppose.
Or you could look at it as, every time you turn the steering wheel the chassis will twist on an unwelded car, reducing the handling and also putting stress on the whole front end of the car...............
How hard do you drive your nova into bumps?!
Or you could look at it as, every time you turn the steering wheel the chassis will twist on an unwelded car, reducing the handling and also putting stress on the whole front end of the car...............
How hard do you drive your nova into bumps?!
How will it, steering will be no different to any other Nova no matter what engine is in it?
I try and avoid bumps if possible.
You turn the wheel to the right, the weight of the engine pushes left into the side of the engine bay, the heavier engines will throw more weight into the side of the engine bay, this causes the bay to twist as the left hand side is being forced down while the right hand side is pushing up.
The more force you turn the wheel with the greater the twisting affect, this naturally has an effect on the grip between the two front wheels, one wheelis lifting ie less grip, and the other has to now take much more of the weight of the engine, hence the likelihood of loss of grip in this wheel and understeer.
Its physics.
By strenghtening the engine bay, this effect is dramatically reduced, hence less twisting and better cornering under the extra load.
You turn the wheel to the right, the weight of the engine pushes left into the side of the engine bay, the heavier engines will throw more weight into the side of the engine bay, this causes the bay to twist as the left hand side is being forced down while the right hand side is pushing up.
The more force you turn the wheel with the greater the twisting affect, this naturally has an effect on the grip between the two front wheels, one wheelis lifting ie less grip, and the other has to now take much more of the weight of the engine, hence the likelihood of loss of grip in this wheel and understeer.
Its physics.
I got an A level in physics but can't say I remember any of that stuff!!
They don't cover everything in A- level physics!!
They don't cover everything in A- level physics!!
Good point. :lol:
Philsutton
29-11-05, 04:44 PM
Not welding the bay is just stupid, ive seen plenty pull the front off that havent been done right. But its your car do it how you want. Also im soon to get a degree in physics so there lol
also your not supposed to SEAM weld it, your only supposed to STITCH weld it ;)
granted mines been seamed but tbh i dont care lmao
All depends on the condition and model of the shell...
Gsi's supposedly respond better to not needing welding...
But my old XE nova was re shelled because it wasn't seam welded so i know it happens!
The car is a 1993 model, its in great conditon for its age, the only rust is round an indicator, i think it was garaged for a long time. Thanks for all the responses to this topic, i have some questions though.
How would i know if it has been stitch welded? where would i look? Can anybody upload a picture with arrows showing me where it should be done lol.
Could i stitch weld it myself?
Could i get it welded with the engine allready in?
there must be alot of people that do conversions without welding the bay though, is there?
Does the same apply for someone putting a 1.6 gsi engine into a 1.0 body?
well thanks very much.
x20xevnova
30-11-05, 05:17 PM
yeah strengthening the engine bay is a must!!! ive been told that seem welding isnt as good as pop welding?
a 1.6 would be fine with no plating etc, however, its still worth it though as my SR is an SR and thats ripping the whole engine bay of the car.
Engine bay plating kits are easy DIY If you can already weld, simply remove engine (for easist acess) place plate in situ, and weld around it so edges of plate are welded to car body shell, then primer, then spray.
Its like a jigsaw, once youve worked out where the plates go, weld them in/on.
Job done.
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