View Full Version : Gripper(plate) diff group buy.
at the mo i am just wanting to see how many people would be interested in a group buy on a gripper diff. the price listed on the website for both the nova f10/13/15 and the astra/cav f16/20 is ?575. i'm going to ring the guy in the next few days and see what he can do for us if we buy a load in one go. idealy i would like 10 but i think if i can get 5 it should be enough to get a bit off the price.
i'm also sure that everone is going to ask whats the difference between a plate diff and a atb(quaife). so i will also ask him to send me a basic fact sheet or similar. i'm not even going to try and explain as i don't know enought to explain it without getting things in a mess.
so if you are interested can you list your name here or send me a email at ben@trackdaynova.co.uk
cheers
ben.
General Baxter
09-08-05, 10:50 PM
interested in a F13! :D
deffinatly? i know what your like for saying you want stuff
General Baxter
09-08-05, 11:39 PM
'interested' depends on how many people join in, to bring the cost down!
BigRuss
10-08-05, 12:09 AM
Listen guys,
For anybody that is considering buying a LSD for their Nova, You WILL NOT get a better diff for track day/competition use than a gripper.
Over the last few years I've had a quaife, ZF, tran-x and a gripper diff.
Grippers give you so much confidence going in to a bend You won't believe. I never failed to get around a corner with mine, even when I thought "OH fuck, this is going to be close!!!!" If you keep your foot down you will get around the corner.
My advice, , get as many of you together as possible, speak to Tom at gripper and get the best price you can. By the way he likes cash :wink:
cheers russ. can you put a brief description of the pro's and cons of a plate diff over a atb.
thanks
ben.
BigRuss
10-08-05, 12:23 AM
Hmmmmm,
I'll try and keep the explanation simple :?
A quaife ATB diff is an improvement over a std diff, just!! But, and it is a big but, they take a fraction of a second to "load up" after you hit the throttle. Sometimes you have to actually get a wheel to spin before it works.
Doesn't sound too bad yeah? Trust me guys when you are tearing in to a bend that fraction of a second to "load up" could be the difference between getting around the corner and going off. They can actually snatch mid corner and give you a bit of a scary tank slapper moment too..... When either of these scenarios occur you absoloutley shit your pants :lol: cause you know there is nothing you can do, you just got to wait for the diff to work :o it's not a nice feeling!!
A plate diff is constantly "on load" so to speak, there is no delay at all. Gripper have got this part of their diff development very well sorted, hit the throttle and you instantly feel the diff working.
If you drove two cars back to back with a Quaife and then a Gripper plate diff you wouldn't believe the difference..... it's as simple as that.
The only thing better than a gripper in my opinion is what I have, but there is only 12 of those in existance 8)
from a laymans point of view.
ATB's are a nice idea but feck me when it snatches mid corner you will know about it and you will see your life flash before your eyes.
Grippers, well , I dont consider myself a good driver but i managed to get round llandow in dans car rather well (bar the spectator bus stop speed) and the level of confidence it gives is unreal!
Gripper wins hands down!
id consider it..... if the price came down and id be willing to scrape the cash together ;) dont need a recipt lol
Philsutton
10-08-05, 12:32 PM
i didnt think the atb was that bad on mine, but like you say when it snatches you had best hope to god that your arms are no where near the steering wheel otherwise your going to break something.
But saying that ive had it sideways then powered into its a great feeling to get it back under control lol.
You guys make the ATB diff sound awful! and its just NOT, after fitting one to my car it improved my lap times by about 5 seconds which is alot! and its a major upgrade from the standard item.
They can sntach but I have never had mine snach so much that it could break my arm or something. When they snatch you feel the power come in and you compensate, also when you get to know the car you know when its going to happen.
In out and out performance on the track as you have said I believe that the plate diff is the better out of the two. Also plate diffs give you more torque steer. A person down my way put a plate diff in his rally Nova and it was good on rallys but a curb magnet on the roads.
To get the best out of a plate diff you have to set them up quite tight. This makes the steering heavier in slower corners.
Im not talking about the 'Gripper' plate diff here (because I have no direct knowlage of that particular diff) but plate diffs in general. If Gripper have enginered their diff so that if dosen't torque steer or make the steering heavier (when its set tight) then you can dis-regard the last few sentances. However since these drawbacks of plate diffs was not mentioned above then I thought that they where worth mentioning.
In conclusion :-
The plate type of LSD is very good and performs well on the track/rally but as far as im aware they are a pig when you have them on the road.
The ATB or viscus type of LSD is also good on the track (not so good for FWD rally cars though) but its also easy to live with on the road.
lol ive noticed the exact opposite.
Torque steer wasnt dropped much with the ATB, but the plate eliminated it totally and incaft holds a straight line on bumpy roads with power applied...
if your not expecting the atb to grab you tis a very un-nerving experience. esp as when you first drive the car you cant tell if its got the ATB fitted in the first palce as it feels like a std diff till it loads. where as the plate is always there and you know that its doing tis job from the very start.
i guess you could get used to the ATB, but id rather not have to... if you get me drift. a plate is very very easy to get used to, so for novice drivers its a good start and as russ uses one its gotta be good for the more experienced rally boys too....
The ATB diffs where designed to reduce torque steer. Thats why they are more suited to FWD cars.
Sounds like you have all had lary moments with a ATB diff where my experiance has been fine ever since the first corner after it was fitted. Hence why I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as you all seem to report.
The only thing that I had to get used to with the ATB diff was how much more grip I had going in to the bends.
Anyhoo - I felt I had to post because IMO the thread was way too bias and was not giving a good comparison between the two types of diff. I've had no problems with my setup at all and the diff has behaved perfectly....long may it continue :)
is there any maintanence with a plate type diff? i thought i heard they needed to be adjusted/or serviced every now and then?
also i take it they have a speedo drive facility?
yeah they need a service every now and then but its not biggie
and you have to fit the speedo drive yourself, jsut like you have to with an atb...
Philsutton
10-08-05, 07:02 PM
In conclusion :-
The plate type of LSD is very good and performs well on the track/rally but as far as im aware they are a pig when you have them on the road.
thats the understanding i have of them, the gripper is a bit harsh on the road but good on the track while the atb is a good all rounder if you know what i mean. Saying that i was happy with mine and once used to it did improve the handling of the car no end. Its just when your driving home from work at about 3am very tired an the fucking thing snatches cos you maybe gave it a little to much , lol soon wakes you up.
stu just thought id point that out as mybe not every one has the know how or want to have to take a box apart every now and then!
yea i meant that in some cases diff's dont have and privisions for a speedo drive good that these do, order up a new one as they seem liable to shatter when you take the plastic buggers off :lol:
Snowface
10-08-05, 07:32 PM
certainly sounds from the video that you need a lsd.
i would get one if i could afford it.
being one of the few that have actually used a plate diff on an everyday basis i can safely say the drive is smoother than anything before, not snatchy at all and confidence inspiring when being driven. Also as with all of my various setups torque steer has never been an issue for me, whether its how i have my front geometry setup or whatever before and after diff its never been present.
Also with a plate diff you can have it set to what ever you want it for, quiafes a quiafe. My previous settings were on the milder side and the car was a joy to drive, Now it is set alot harsher and similar to russ's i have to say that the actual driving experience isnt much different, you just know its there alot more at ultra slow speeds when parking and the like (a few of you might have heard the noises at llandow lol :lol: ) but that is the only downfall. Stuart drove mine sunday for the first time since the diff was checked over and reset and it didnt unsettle him in the slightest, just made him more sure he was having a go on a proper track lmao
After mashing 5th gear and sending most of the teeth and bits to every corner inside the box it cost me about 50 quid to have it stripped, checked over and rebuilt with the new setting which is something of nothing in the grand scheme of things.
At the end of the day it all horses for courses as if we all liked the same things then life would just be plain boring. Whatever diff you fit your driving style has to adjust as you learn how to drive your car all over again
Ok, i have spoken to tom at gripper (nice bloke) and here is what he is offering:
F13(also fit f10 and f15)
he has 2 in stock, one of which i have ordered, there is a 3-4 week wait for new stock.
?480 + P+P
F20 (and F16)
he has none in stock, 2-3 weeks wait. 1 diff is ?490, if i order more than one i can get them for ?480 + P+P
he also said:
the atb diff is fine for road use, but if you are intending going on track then a plate diff is leagues better. the atb doesn't work if you lift a wheel so if you clip a kerb on track then it won't be doing it's stuff.
regarding service life he said;
if used for competition i would like to service the diff every year to ensure top performance, if used only on the road expect 3 years onwards (obviously depending on mileage and abuse) and road and track should be 2 years onwards again depending on mileage and abuse.
a service including carrige is around ?65
and on the settings.
for road and track use he said it should be set to 45/45. for circuit use only it can be set to 60/40. but this would be a tad aggressive for the road(would pull the steering too much on bumpy corners)
any more question just ask. if you are serious about having one ring me on 07909833076
what i would need to do is take the payment off people and go up to him to collect the diffs. i willthen post them out, or they could be collected from derby, or from trax
cheers
ben.
BigRuss
10-08-05, 09:56 PM
well done mate :wink:
Your car will be much better on track :wink:
last year everyone was raving about atbs and i was told no need for plate diff when i said was going to get one lol funy how the little trends change
Adam Moran
12-08-05, 02:20 PM
Hum....
I've got an ATB but when i start using the car i might change that ;)
last year everyone was raving about atbs and i was told no need for plate diff when i said was going to get one lol funy how the little trends change
you want one or not??
joff-turbo-nova
13-08-05, 08:55 PM
Will the gripper diff for the F20 fit the F28 six speeder and if so will I need any extra shims or stuff like that. Would be very interested in the group buy.
Joff
you say its not a biggie, but its still a pain in the arse with a plate diff,
an atb will NEVER need a service so when its fitted its there for good, so for the every day fast road or track day car where it gets built and driven all the time, you dont want something else to have to take apart. im not saying dont get one but think about your needs first, its really not a good choice for a road eveyday car,
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