View Full Version : Live 8 hmm.....
I presume everyone has heard about mr.geldoffs latest plan to cure 3rd world hunger and clear debt
seems a bit of a foiled plan
1 - The people attending the G8 summit can't actually do what he's asking for
2 - It will cost 50 million pounds to police the event
basically, he's actually making things worse
Instead of criticising why dont you come up with a better plan you tree hugging pedant.
:x
Phil
well as a tax payer i feel quite angry at the fact that ?50,000,000 of tax payers money will be going to a complete waste.
maybe you don't pay tax ?
fifty million worldwide to police it perhaps - and thats before the coroprate sponsorship comes in i presume. I am a tax payer too (and have been since 1996) and like i said, instead of criticising nick (as you insist on doing to so many things/people on the site) why not put your brain to work and think of a better idea. Im sure that Sir Geldoff would welcome any suggestions of that nature.
Any links to where this was read?
Phil
well no, thats a favourable estimate of 50,000,000 for the local operation around gleneagles, the true eastimate is liekly to be on the way to 100,000,000 and that includes 10,000 wire mesh panneled fence around the summit area.
Ok, there are good intentions, and the money will be able to be used on local basis to help cure desiese, small scale poverty and provide education. however people fail to realise that in order to CURE it you've got to tackle the bigger problem of globalisation and the role of TNCs in ELDCs. Using Chilli and Zaire as an example, TNCs have had control over the whole economy which basically takes all the money away to other parts of the world, and any money that stays in the country is inwardly invested back into the company. Ok it may be great that people have jobs, there's copper mines to work in but no-one is actually getting anywhere.
To get anywhere you have to establish an economicly independant country, you can't rely on deals from foreign "aid" which ties you up i.e We'l give you some tractors for free to harvest your crops e.t.c but in return we'l take half of your profit. Then the problem is that once a country turns from being an EELDC into a ELDC it yet again needs more investment from industry to develop and this is tied aid again. it's called the hangman concept.
The one good thing is that part of this "protest" is actually involving anti-globalisation organisations. I'd rather see there be more focus on the bigger problem at hand, rather than it taking the "side-line"
again i ask for your information sources?
Phil
i do believe that sum comes directly from scotlands first minister, which can be read on many websites, papers e.t.c
many being?
you seem to have a lot of "facts" but no evidence. Lets see it!
Surely also things like hte cost of fencing you mention, with the corporate sponsorship, would be somewhat offset/reduced?
Phil
well no, thats a favourable estimate of 50,000,000 for the local operation around gleneagles, the true eastimate is liekly to be on the way to 100,000,000 and that includes 10,000 wire mesh panneled fence around the summit area.
Ok, there are good intentions, and the money will be able to be used on local basis to help cure desiese, small scale poverty and provide education. however people fail to realise that in order to CURE it you've got to tackle the bigger problem of globalisation and the role of TNCs in ELDCs. Using Chilli and Zaire as an example, TNCs have had control over the whole economy which basically takes all the money away to other parts of the world, and any money that stays in the country is inwardly invested back into the company. Ok it may be great that people have jobs, there's copper mines to work in but no-one is actually getting anywhere.
To get anywhere you have to establish an economicly independant country, you can't rely on deals from foreign "aid" which ties you up i.e We'l give you some tractors for free to harvest your crops e.t.c but in return we'l take half of your profit. Then the problem is that once a country turns from being an EELDC into a ELDC it yet again needs more investment from industry to develop and this is tied aid again. it's called the hangman concept.
The one good thing is that part of this "protest" is actually involving anti-globalisation organisations. I'd rather see there be more focus on the bigger problem at hand, rather than it taking the "side-line"
Anyone else not read that purely due to the word count? :lol:
Can't say i've been paying much attention to the whole thing tbh
boredbloke
31-05-05, 11:57 PM
again i ask for your information sources?
Phil
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4562691.stm
only thing i could find relevant
?50,000,000 is alot of money to be offset/reduced. + it probably will be reduced by corporate sponsership.
The fact is, Globalisation is a poverty trap. for a country to be allowed to develop it needs foreign investment, and foreign investment is usually the very thing that dimishes a independant economy and smuthers further development. so why is this the "side product" of the protest ? it's a complete farse - and yes i do have a "vauge" idea what i'm talking about. i studied this perticular subject "economic geography"
Even if you cancel 3rd world debt, where is the capital to invest in industry and turn a country from an ELDC to a EMDC ? yes that's right, from trans national corporations. it's a viscious circle.
again i ask for your information sources?
Phil
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4562691.stm
only thing i could find relevant
direct quote from that article
"Reports that the cost of policing the G8 summit at Gleneagles could reach ?100m have been dismissed by the First Minister, Jack McConnell."
Thats also about G 8 Summit not the live 8 concerts.
Quote further on
"That cost is not true, and unless circumstances change in an exceptional manner over the course of the next few weeks, the cost of the G8 summit to Scotland will be nowhere near ?100m."
Try again nick.
Phil
i think you'l find that's one account of it, don't be lazy and search google yourself , there's plenty of scottish websites saying the police's and the scotish first minister's own estimate is around 50 million.
anyway, your ignoring the fact what i've said above is correct which is coming from educated expirience.Instead hanging on , in comparison, and irrelevant figure. it's just a "feel-good" solution to a big problem. change the direct focus of it, and it'l actually mean something, i hope that when it comes ot crunch time he adresses this as the main priority
Lazy? thats rich!
Youre putting forth an argument and expecting other people to dig the evidence up for you. I again repeat that supposed ?100M cost is related to the G8 summit, Not bob geldoffs well intentioned concerts, therefore youre arguments are entirely confused/invalid. Bob Geldoff is not orgainsing a policitical summit in scotland you idiot, hes organising pop concerts around the world in citites including LONDON etc. Get your fundamental facts straight before you decide to waste my time again
Phil
Edit: What an 800th post - lol!
i know fine-well he's not organising a political summit, he's organising a march on the summit, and in return it's going to cost 50,000,000 to police a 1 million person march. you obviously think very highly of yourself that lesser people are wasting your precious time.
http://www3.azwestern.edu/psy/dgershaw/lol/images/arguing.jpg
HIs march is not the sole cause of the expenditure on secuirty tho!
come on nick, i always thought you had a good head on your shoulders, but you seem to have taken the anti stance to a somewhat obsessive length here. There is a summit taking place with world leaders involved, which has been organised by parties as yet unmentioned by yourself in this argument. They are the ones you should bemoan. If Sir Geldoff feels passionately enough on a subject then good luck to him organising a protest. It would appear however, from one google on the subject, that he has called people to support an anti poverty march that had already been organised, so again it is unfair to entirely lay blame at his feet
"Police had already been planning for more than 100,000 people to take part in a Make Poverty History march in Edinburgh on July 2.
But announcing details of the planned follow-up concerts to Live Aid, Sir Bob appealed for Britons to take time off work or school to head for Edinburgh on July 6." (c) Scotsman.com
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4629108
So again, your facts are a little confused.
As fo that comment on "lesser people" you couldnt be further from the truth. I have all the time in the world for people with well thought out, constructive opinions on any topic you care to mention. However, when pure blarney/confused statements are made and proclaimed the truth in such an abrasive and quite frankly aloof manner, it gets my back up. Try researching and reading articles fully before you decide to post on them.
Phil
tree-hugging pedant ? nice one
You asked me what i'd do and i explained the overlying problem. and it's undeniably right. i didn't get 390/400 for nothing.
Let's just hope that the more important issues get put forwards at his protest, otherwise it's just going to be another in a long line of events that fail to actually make people realise the whole problem.
Whilst I am not arguing with the economics of your post (frankly I cant be arsed due to dealing with mind numbing shite at work like vat returns and dosage rates) regarding 3rd world debt, what i was objecting to were the half truths you were portraying as fact. These are quite blatant, namely at first you were apparently blaming Bob Geldoff for the cost of security, then you were apparently linking him to organising G8, then you were saying hes organised a protest march, when hes done guilty of nothing more than organising some charity concerts, lending his support to a pre organised event and stating his own opinion. How valid or not this may be in your opinion, is fair enough, but perhaps you should let him have his opinion, as he lets you have yours.
As for the tree hugging pedent, it was a jestful remark, as is people calling me a "ginger ****" taken. :P
Phil
its "nice" that radio 1 have latched onto it as if they thought of the idea etc, so by the end of the week we will all be pissed off with the whole idea.
I couldnt give a fcuk about the economics of the summit nor the alleged impact that a bunch of over paid tossers prancing about on stage will have.
-tucny-
01-06-05, 03:46 PM
im with stuart on this one, it may sound harsh but iv got my own s**t to worry about. anyway i do my bit for third world debt and poverty, i get a curry (with rice!) every friday night and i always buy those cheap imported beans and not heinz or hp.
if all these singers and celebs are so concerned, perhaps they should all get their hands in their pockets and shell out a bit.
if all these singers and celebs are so concerned, perhaps they should all get their hands in their pockets and shell out a bit.
Thats a good point, it seems somewhat hypocritical they're up on stage campaigning for us to donate our hard earned cash, when they're the ones who could easily afford to spare a few thousand if not million...!
Philsutton
01-06-05, 03:57 PM
fucking hippies, i bet they all use tea bags about 6 times to reduce pollution
-tucny-
01-06-05, 04:13 PM
fcuk hippies, i bet they all use tea bags about 6 times to reduce pollution
and i bet they drink their own piss too
Philsutton
01-06-05, 04:22 PM
http://www.bowlerfc2001.fsnet.co.uk/fih/images/swampy.jpg
oh look its the soap dodger himself
markiemark
01-06-05, 08:46 PM
:o JEEESSSUSSS fellas! Chill will ya? christ
if all these singers and celebs are so concerned, perhaps they should all get their hands in their pockets and shell out a bit.
Thats a good point, it seems somewhat hypocritical they're up on stage campaigning for us to donate our hard earned cash, when they're the ones who could easily afford to spare a few thousand if not million...!
hasnt fran from travis been traveling round africa visiting villages ect helping out?
was this post just a excuse to argue, can't believe a stupid concert has started this tbh
boredbloke
01-06-05, 10:10 PM
stupid concert
lol more like a stupid comment what is you do to help out the less fortunate mike?
and don't comment on me a percentage of my wages comes out every month to go to shelter and the nspcc
i never actually ment it like that, its still a concert and people are getting stressed, put it this way its going to happen anyway, BUT it might not make a real difference
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