Coilovers that Fit with NO spacers required (speedlines)

[krobinson]

Has anyone got coilovers, and doesnt have to use spacers to use them with speedlines allesio 2's?

Keith

[C-S_Cormac]

Your going two tho if this is happening surely...

[Aragorn]

i think the solution is to get some custom 2-1/4" springs made up which are a bit shorter than the standard springs so the platform ends up above the tyre instead of level with it

prolly find the companies that custom make the coilovers to your order (gaz maybe?) would be able to spec up springs that are a bit shorter but have same rates or whatever

[beatin u]

PM 'flush' on roybacer, think he uses Leda.

[peester]

think he uses Leda.

whooooo ?$?$?$?$?$?$?$?$?????????
lol.

[dan-hipgrave]

i have AVO coilovers and dont have to use spacers, but then im running ET45 Wolfrace alloys :|

[Stuart]

you dont need "custom" springs making up for coilovers. thats what they were designed for!

you can buy almost any length/poundage from demon tweeks for not a lot of money. Or even most tuning companies

[Aragorn]

even better then

you just need to calculate (somehow) the correct poundage for your exact car (i doubt the std springs are right, more of a stab in the dark, espeically when the same kits are fitted to corsas and tigras too)
and then select a spring of that poundage in the required length and bobs your auntie no scrubbing

how would u go about selecting the poundage anyway? weighing the front axle loading?

[Rick Draper]

I run ledas, custom 2'1/2" gas adjustable ones

[Stuart]

CP just jumped up to 280LBs springs on a shorter length to allow greater drops etc.

Id say fit similar rate springs, or prehaps slightly softer ones. with a suitable length thats easily measureable. Beware of getting too soft a spring as it will go coilbound V fast lol

[S_Gault]

Keith you need 60% droop at front with 40 bump,

measure it up and gimme a shout , I can get most spring rates and lengths.

Kens sprint car runs similiar setup on the Leda s.

Steven

[Aragorn]

surely there is a way of calculating the exact spring requirements

i'd imagine the car would handle notably differently on 280 to 300lb springs for instance

and whats 60% droop and 40 bump?

[S_Gault]

your car sits at a certain ride height, if you have selected the correct damper length fro that ride height then the damper will have 40% of its operating length as bump and 60% as droop.

If you have less droop than that it will lift a wheel and cause lack of traction (not at back obviously).

to measure the exact damper length that you need you must set the ride height at where you want to run and measure the length of the damper and then select one which has open and closed lengths that match your above calculations.

This is what proper suspension set up is all about. then you can start getting the alignment kit out and setting the wheels where they should be and then setting the corner weights.

I find that chassis setup is more important than an engine (and thats coming from an engine builder) - see some details on my site- www.s-g-performance.co.uk


Steven

[Stuart]

indeed, if you cant go round corners then its pointless having a fast engine.

Its handy as where i work there is an ex suspension designer who deveolped better setup for various cars than the actual works teams lol they werent best pleased.

[Jim]

Stu, are you getting him to set up your car? hehe.

Jim

[krobinson]

I might have a talk with Gaz, and there Coilover kits. See which they recomend. And use shorter springs to clear the wheel.

Keith

[nova---chris]

Yes use a shorter spring.
I did this with my avos. ive just swapped the springs to my ledas now!
better option that spacers

[Aragorn]

so is there a definitive way to find out which poundage springs u need for the front?

can u weigh the car or something?

surely it cant just be a guessing game?

[S_Gault]

dont use a shorter spring keith, you'll have less droop and it will pick up the inside wheel even moreso than it already does

[Aragorn]

surely if he uses a shorter spring then the bottom spring platform will sit higher to achieve the same ride height?

and therefore will no longer catch on the tyre (which is the problem hes getting)

[Lee H]

I'm using the Gaz ones as the shocker body is 11" as opposed to the FK and Avo 12" that used to be running nearly fully compressed. Also running shorter springs and they easily clear my speedlines now.

[S_Gault]

yea but youve got to put more preload into it to achieve it,

this si one of those cases where practice shows the problems that talking about it on paper cant show up.

Keith knows how fussy i am about my chassis setup but the reasons are justified as i compete myself in a mini miglia and spend 2 days on chassis setup alone because its time well spent

[Rick Draper]

yea but youve got to put more preload into it to achieve it,

this si one of those cases where practice shows the problems that talking about it on paper cant show up.

Keith knows how fussy i am about my chassis setup but the reasons are justified as i compete myself in a mini miglia and spend 2 days on chassis setup alone because its time well spent


If the spring is shorter you would still only need exactly the same amount of pre load to achieve the same ride height.

[S_Gault]

put it on the corner weight scales and see, i know it doesnt make a lot of sense either,

but when you lower these cars to the extent that yous guys do, the roll centre of the car is below the ground, thats why i reposition the track control arm.

[S_Gault]

really what im trying to say is that to sort this youve got to fix the problem.. which is one of camber change from droop to bump.

look at the angle your steering arm sits at and compare that to that of a single seater design to see what you should be aiming for and look at a std nova and compare...

when you lower a car so far you change many things, some of which are good and some which are not.

Maybe im a fussy edgit and getting on my high horse a bit, my apologies i dont mean to be like that its just im aiming to point you in correct direction here.

[Rick Draper]

My track rods are inverted. Dont know about anyone else doing theres.

[Aragorn]

i think your missing the problem here?

the problem with speedlines is the TYRE catches on the lower spring platform

the geometry between the spring platform and the tyre never changes no matter where the strut is, as they are directly connected together via hub, wheel bearings and the rest of the steel in there, its nothing to do with the camber change from droop to bump...

yes the geometry changes between the wheel and the chassis due to the angles and pivot points involved but thats not the issue keith and others are discussing here?

keith had used the camber adjustment on the FK's to move the top edge of the hub outwards (ie adding positive camber) so it pushed the top of the tyre away from the strut, and at the ring the adjustment bolt moved to the other end of the hole causing the tyre to catch on the lower spring platform again

fitting shorter springs means the adjustment platform will be higher up on the shock body meaning that the tyre will no longer touch it?

the other solution i mentioned to keith would be to weld a washer onto the adjustment part of the shocker in the correct place and this would stop the bolt moving again

[krobinson]

The original problem is how close the tyre is to the spring platform. I have a pic somewhere *go's off to find it*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/keithrobinson/FKclose.jpg

So you can see how close it is. The adjustment on the FK coilovers moved with the abuse from the Nurburgring, and the tyre jamed on the platform, nearly wrecking the tyre. So if i get a washer welded into the adjustment hole, so it cant move again. And also run shorter springs to move the platform up away from the tyre, this will sort my problem.

Keith

[dan16v]

my car seems good on the 9" springs with 280poundage

[Stuart]

meh, just use 10 year old nova valve springs. all the ride height and poundage that you need

[CP]

I had this problem Keith which reared its ugly head when i fitted my Dunlop slicks. I got round it by *borrowing* breenys wheel spacers lol. Ok its not ideal but it gets round it the problem quite neatly so why not use them or are you rubbing on the arch already?