what engine.

[benji]

right then girls and boys. i'm going to be taking my time with the nova now and chances are the 1400 won't be going back in. so the question is what do i replace it with. a turbo is out the question because of the price. unless one comes up cheap. so it is either a standard 1.6 16v or a 2.0 16v. with carbs coming in the future. i am leaning towards the 2.0 at the mo because of the straight line power, and it will be more fun on the road. and because i can drop some carbs straight on to that and not have to mess around with the ignition. the 1.6 sounds like a plan but getting the ignition sorted will be a pain even with a megasquirt ecu from stu.

so what does everyone think.

the handling thing with the 2.0L is also a issue but after seeing the white one(jomlem?) go last time we were at donington i have changed my mind a bit.

cheers

ben

ps. whats the difference between a corsa 1.6 16v and a astra?

[NovaloadedAgain]

Dont think theres a difference between them engines.
I too would go for a 2L on 45's 8)

[nathan.]

i think 2.0ltr ben. With a good suspension set up etc (which you already have) i don't think handling will be a problem.
look at carls 2.0 ltr corsa from curborough, that was doing ok. i know its a corsa but it was handling fine.

[scott.parker]

Well mate on a buget its C20XE as you get more Bhp for your money straght off,but if you have some more money to through at it then do the C16XE as you will prefure the handling as the engine is a fari bit light then the C20,you notice the mass of wieght over the front compaird the a small block,was the first thing i found,just feels bigger and more solid as the steering is stiffer at low speed etc..

but the choice is yours mate,my self i would do as you wer saying C20XE the GTE,and then C16XE you Blue one.

Scott

[Adam Moran]

Ben theres no dought the xe is heavyer but.... if you set it up right like James (Jonlem) did then it will be fine. Oh and you need a diff :lol: :lol:

[peester]

yeah but also check this shit:
(those familar with him anyway, off migweb)
olly h : 2.0 16v xe, stripped to fook, qed throttle bodies,prog managemnt.
recently ran 14.1 sec, 101.98mph 1/4mile.

dan (admin): 1.6 8v J-series, stripped to fook, twin 40's
recently ran 14.3sec 1/4mile.

whats that about straight line speed? either that or olly can't drive..
2.0 xe's make sense but - be different - dan, neil, keith, CP might tell ya :D

[scott.parker]

yeah but also check this s**t:
(those familar with him anyway, off migweb)
olly h : 2.0 16v xe, stripped to fook, qed throttle bodies,prog managemnt.
recently ran 14.1 sec, 101.98mph 1/4mile.

dan (admin): 1.6 8v J-series, stripped to fook, twin 40's
recently ran 14.3sec 1/4mile.

whats that about straight line speed? either that or olly can't drive..
2.0 xe's make sense but - be different - dan, neil, keith, CP might tell ya :D



olly can't drive..

I was there he's crap! :lol: wheels spinning loads etc,and my "standard XE" did 14.8 @ 99mph so there you have it,oh and i never saw this 14.1 i did see loads of his runns doing 14.2 14.3 etc

But as i siad it up to benji what he wants to do,so im sure he will pick the right one.

Scott

[peester]

But as i siad it up to benji what he wants to do,so im sure he will pick the right one.

Scott

aye,.. but he is askin our opinions..
cheaper to modify an 8 valve, and repair... :)

[ANDYRACER]

IMO (which probably doesnt count for much) Id stick with the 1.4 thats the thing that makes me love your car. For such a small engined car it doesnt half eat some powerfuller cars. But if you want to change engines the c16xe is a cracking engine to have. C20xe have been done to death.

[Adam Moran]

I've been down the the 8v road myself and i have to say it was a cracking enigne, you cant beat 150bhp from a 1.6 8v BUT when it comes down to it the "hunger" for more power wins 90% of the time.

Set it up well and a tuned xe will be one the nose


Thats my 10p's worth :lol:

[BigRuss]

You can make a Nova handle to a certain extent with a 2l in it, it will not however handle as well as it would with a small block engine in it.

A 2litre is fine for drag racing and ok for the road really but is not as good as you think it would be for serious motorsport.

The beauty of your car compared to faster straight line cars is being able to crawl all over them through the bends, and reel them in under braking on any track day you'll go to.

Stick to a small block mate :wink:

[benji]

but the choice is yours mate,my self i would do as you were saying C20XE the GTE,and then C16XE you Blue one.

Scott

the gte has been sold.


yeah but also check this s**t:
(those familar with him anyway, off migweb)
olly h : 2.0 16v xe, stripped to fook, qed throttle bodies,prog managemnt.
recently ran 14.1 sec, 101.98mph 1/4mile.

dan (admin): 1.6 8v J-series, stripped to fook, twin 40's
recently ran 14.3sec 1/4mile.

whats that about straight line speed? either that or olly can't drive..
2.0 xe's make sense but - be different - dan, neil, keith, CP might tell ya :D

done the 'different' thing. this year the bar has been raised and the will be a fair few rapid novas that the 1400 won't live with.

olly's 2.0 is a standard engine with bolt on intake. dans is tuned as far as possible.


You can make a Nova handle to a certain extent with a 2l in it, it will not however handle as well as it would with a small block engine in it.

A 2litre is fine for drag racing and ok for the road really but is not as good as you think it would be for serious motorsport.

The beauty of your car compared to faster straight line cars is being able to crawl all over them through the bends, and reel them in under braking on any track day you'll go to.

Stick to a small block mate :wink:

i know what you are saying but as it is a trackday they don't allow overtaking into bends, and the 1400 lacks the power to overtake. and i have a feeling a 1600 will aswell, unless i spend alot of cash on it.



this makes me sound like my mind has been made up. i really want a 1600 16v, but i have been offered a 2.0 16v for ?250, still in the car so i can check it's all good. and i can slap a set of carbs on it and a 1800 dizzy and away i go. the 1600 will cost more than ?250 and the carbs are a pain in the ass because of the ignition. i havn't been in either a 2.0 nova or a 1.6 16v so i can't comment from experiance.

[dhdev (Oli)]

1.6 16v every time, it'll handle and break as well as urs does now and have the power to overtake on the straights, even Karl said in a previous post that if he were to start again he'd choose 1.6 16v over 2.0 16v. the 2.0 would be cheaper to get a quick power fix, put in the long run u'll regret it, you'll be on the track understeering away trying to catch the car in front and think to yourself 'wish i'd stuck with a small block!' :lol:

[Stuart]

mian thing is though get a DIFF as your first mod to waht ever option you pick!

[Austin_Nova16]

Maybe take the time to stich weld the whole sheel (if you havn't done it already). I found than doing this and istalling the cage gave such a positive improvement to handling of the car.

With regards to Olly H's 1/4 time, I ran in just inside the 13's with a 20year old set of 45's on a standard engine, so it can't be too bad...

[NovaNeil]

How about a 2.0 8v on 45 Carbs! Its cheap, a bit lighter than an XE and has plenty tuning potential....

oh, and if you want to go the same way as CP I have a very good condition 1.4 16v Lump for sale if you want one of Cheap.

Neil

[nova---chris]

Personally i think the f20 kills the potential of the xe lump.
Its great for high speed ect. BUt thats not what your after.
My thoughts would be go for the xe purely due to cost and its quite easy to extract power from. BUt id really look at quaife gearing and a lsd.
With these int hec ar your looking at a quick setup even without modding the engine. Cost to replace the lump isnt very expensive if owt goes wrong. set of carbs on a good engine could see 170bhp @ fly plus theres other little mods you can do to eek up the bhp!

Im glad you have recognised that valvers arent as poor as peeps think round corners. Infact the extra weight can have its plus points as much as the negatives. the straight line pwoer will soon out weigh any small advantages a small block may have into a corner.

speaking about olly h i was running under 14 seconds constantly my last time at pod with carbs. But im expecting to go quicker this year with a solid shell/more stripped/ and i also found a knackerd driver shock causing wheel bounce. which ive now replaced with leda's .

So benji the choice is yours. but you wont be dissapointed with xe power .

[benji]

thanks for all the comments, i'll have to do some thinking. as i have said i know where there is a 2.0 16v cheap so that might be a deciding factor. but i also have asked about a couple of 1600's.

austin, the shell has been done

mongo, thanks mate, but i don't want to do a 1400.

[BigRuss]

It is a tough choice Mate, 2 litre is cheap power but is a bit common/old skool now.

I think you'll find you were respected as having a quick 1400 nova, with a 2 litre you'll just be " Oh look theres another 2 litre 16v nova on carbs"

For the money I spent on mine over the winter I could have had a 240bhp 2 litre. But for rallying it would have been a big let down.

If I were you i'd go the 1600 route.


:)

[scott.parker]

Pha ben mate get another nova and do both of them :lol:

Scott

[Jonlem]

Glad to hear you were impressed with my car Benji, it is certainly loads better now I have had time to get it setup etc..

There is nothing wrong with a xe and for tunabilty and performance the 20xe is by far the best for a nova conversion

F20's aren't all that bad, when they are diffed they are good enough, obviously a Quaife sccr would be great but not everyone can afford one lol

if you already have some good suspension then just go for a 20xe, a 16xe is again expensive to modify and un neccesary unless you are racing to regulations, which I suppose your not

good luck whatever you do,

[Riggy]

imo ben it would all depend on your budget

as said 1600 16v are still quite expensive to buy and mod but you will keep some better handleing

but thexe is plenty quick as std and if you are prepared to get it setup as good as jonlem's then that will be my choice

i mean mine will be a std xe with my coilovers , wheels and v6 front+ rear discs on it and i wouldnt even think about the apparant bad handleing :lol:

[benji]

i have been talking to a chap tonight and he says get a 1600, they are miles better and i have just missed out on a truck load of engines and parts. they were all sold for scrap.

i have also made a few enquiries about other 1600's but they all want ?300+ and i didn't want to pay that much

[Snowface]

their's pro's and con's for both. Have you considered a standard C16XE for a while before you can afford some tb's for it?

That way you'll have a good ton of bhp to play with on track in the meantime and also keeping the front end light, before you can really whack some power into it.

[Ian]

the only people saying"another xe" etc are the ones with 1.6s that are jealous ;) ignore the xe haters(theres plenty on here) and do whats best for you, an xe will be much cheaper than tuning a 1.6 to dans level etc.

oh and for those that want to be different, let them waste their money:

Stuart says:
probably same spent on this 1200 as most spend on an XE to be not much faster
Ian says:
so you gonna do xe 1/4 times?
Stuart says:
lol might muster a std gte time
Stuart says:
argh BB on. im outta here
Ian says:
lol then you will be much slower and spent a lot of money to be slow
Ian says:
you're a real genius

[Stuart]

so Russ is an idiot? hmm

[scott.parker]

Ben i say do a 1.6 8v on T40's,oh what you just sold one :lol:

Only real reason i say do 1600 is i want to know i can beat you :wink: :lol: :lol:

Mate as i have said before my view is as what snowface said,just put the c16xe in then mod when posible,as im sure with small mods it has to be worth doing as your already going to be better off then what you have now.

Scott

[Snowface]

at the end of the day you got to make your own decision.

Pick your way through the contradicting opinions on here, and ask yourself what you want out of the car and if its 'Really worth' spending ?2k on a tb setup when you will be just as happy with a 2.0 on carb's.


thats my 2p.

[Dan]

just to add to this, personally if i was in this situation i wouldnt just decide either, so i'm no real help.

But, to clear a few things up, mine isnt massively tuned, moderate yes but not to its peak. Also the cost wasnt massive....

bottom end.. 850
head.. 350 (when i got it)
camkit.. 300
forties.. 200 (average rate)

Thats all brand new by the way apart from the forties, its 'doesnt' have to cost that much

Now add all that up and compare it to a valver that if it was me would have a full stripdown and rebuild anyways to ensure the same reliablilty i have had with my 8v (40k so far) and add to that the mods that the likes of olly hewitt, phil sutton etc (sorry guys :oops: ) have added and compare. its not that drastic lol. Miles in his which cost a hell of alot more than me with his well specced 1.6 16v only ran a 14 flat in a striped caged car. Only huge advantage these guys have on me is top end which on the sort of track i prefer wouldnt be an issue.

I know thats not what the threads about but it goes to show costs are irrelavent tbh, just personal preference.

[Nick]

i think dan has made a very good point...

everyone i know constantly makes remarks about how much money i'm going to be spending on my 1.6 engine.

?100 for engine

?600 for bottom end + head

?300 for cam + 40's e.t.c

add a small amount on there for un-expected costs

not bad for a light 135-140bhp conversion that will handle just as good as it's meant to.

With a XE conversion, you'l be spending that on preping, welding spraying the shell e.t.c Then some money on getting the handling sorted so it'l be spot-on.

I quite like the idea of the 16XE route, a bit different from the normal XE you see in most novas now.

After all, it's your desicion, it really depends on whether money is a big issue ?

[scott.parker]

In an ideal world i would love to owne all of them,well was going to do the 1.6 8v tuned route,but benji had my engine off me.

But i would still do them all

1.6 8v t40 fun factor

1.6 16v TB's meaga sound and nippy as fuck

2.0 16v TB's and shed loads more"just a power hungry project to see what i can do"

PS: i also love the feel of my mates mad 1.6 8v turbo,something out of the norm also :D

No help what so ever,but just stating im not closed of to the idea of all of them..

Scott

[darren]

If you go 2.0

For track use and just to be different if i was you mate id do the 2.0 8V 5x Cheaper to buy Than The XE

a SEH130 Can be just as quick as a std XE in a nova with some carbs n cams :D

[Nick]

some carbs cam and the money spent on the 2.08v conversion on a 1.6 8v will be close to a 2.0 8v power.

every conversion has it's Posotives and negetives, to b honest it really depends on what you want. you can scutinise and praise all the possibilities

[benji]

still not made my mind up. i am leaning towards a 1600 16v. but i don't want to fork out for one and then get some tb's only to be wipped round a track by a 2.0 16v with the same mods.

i have been told by 2 people who have owned both that the 1600 16v is better, but it means doing all the work and all the money for a standard engine only to have the same power as i have now.

just to clear a few things up,

cost of welding and preping the shell is not a issue. this has already been done.
suspension is not a issue, again this is already good enough all i would need for a big block is some higher poundage springs for the front coilovers.

there isn't many people with quick 1600 16v's so it is hard to get a good comparison. and the ones that are about are daft, ollys is pushing 200bhp and lee's is the same but lighter and with a straight cut box. they are the only 2 i know of. the standard engine does not really intrest me, when i drove the gte at curborough it was boring without the noise and throttle response of the carbs.

[benji]

just out of interest what 1/4 mile time have been done by 1600's with tb's and no other mods? as quick as a standard 2.0L?

[Nick]

sounds like a 2.0 16v would be right up your street.

prepped shell, good suspension, strive for power

[benji]

sounds like a 2.0 16v would be right up your street.

prepped shell, good suspension, strive for power

no offence nick but how the fuck would you know?? what engines in yours? and which of the above have you driven round a track?

[BigRuss]

Ian Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the only people saying"another xe" etc are the ones with 1.6s that are jealous ignore the xe haters(theres plenty on here) and do whats best for you, an xe will be much cheaper than tuning a 1.6 to dans level etc.

oh and for those that want to be different, let them waste their money:



Hmmmm, where do I begin?

I am not a fan of 2 litre XE'd Nova's, this is because I know they do not work/handle well no matter what You muppets on here think :roll:

This I know to be a fact as I have reeled them in on tight twisty sections of stages, passed them and then dropped them for dead 8) I am talking now about when I had a 1600 8v engine 8)

For those of You who think I have "down graded" even more (Ian) to a 1400 engine and wasted a lot of money only to be beaten by a 2 litre Xe'd Nova, I say this:

"Bring it on, our paths will undoubtedley pass on a circuit/track day somewhere sometime. When they do, You best prepare yourselves for an ASS WHIPPING :lol: :lol:


Stuart Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so Russ is an idiot? hmm


Stu, You are the only sane person on this site :lol: If/when the above mentioned ASS WHIPPING of XE'd Novas takes place, You can be in the passenger seat :lol: :lol:


Benji,

Sorry for jumping on your thread mate!!

[benji]

no problem mate.

[Nick]

sounds like a 2.0 16v would be right up your street.

prepped shell, good suspension, strive for power

no offence nick but how the fcuk would you know?? what engines in yours? and which of the above have you driven round a track?

WTF ?

i was giving you an opinion based on what YOU have said - You want to Whip everyone round a track and suspension and welding is not a problem

i wont bother commenting next time

[Ian]

so Russ is an idiot? hmm

no, you are :P

[Ian]

Russ theres a difference between your mega built nova and people who just just randomly slate xes for being common. and the idiot comment is at stu who is spending as much as an xe to get similar power as a standard gte - just to be different

[krobinson]

Benji

Theres not alot i can add to this thread. But have you concidered re-fitting your 1400 and enjoying the car, while you build whichever engine you decide on, to a very good spec. Meaning it would be ready for next year, depending on the spec and your cash flow.

I'm sticking with my 1300 for a while longer, simply because of insurance. And i quite like the fact i've got a Nova that looks like it should have a valver, but doesnt.

Keith

[Dan]

benji if its ball out power then the 2.0 xe would clinch it tbh and nick was right. I think you was a tad harsh towards him there. The beginning of this thread was cost related and thats the answer you would of been after.

We are now in the realms of throttle bodies and allsorts which is a totally different can of worms and costs. Also engine size is a part of things, but as you know being whooped isnt what its about when out in a group as you have proven in the past with the 1400, its making the most of what you have and knowing how to. A more powerful car doesnt make a person a better driver, it just helps mistakes easier to make etc.

mines only 140bhp, but its enough for me to have some fun and expose its full potential. I'm happy with that as i know there's alot more powerful and better out there. to keep up with them boys would mean another mortgage lmao :lol:

[Nick]

benji if its ball out power then the 2.0 xe would clinch it tbh and nick was right. I think you was a tad harsh towards him there. :

thankyou, just because i'm not running a high spec engine at the moment, and im not a leading figure of NL doesn't mean i don't have a clue about cars.

[scott.parker]

Ok ok i think things are getting silly and a bit to personal now,Ben mate im sure you can make your owne mind up without most of these comments as you know the extent as to what you think is right for you,so i recon it's time you just read through this thred and then think about what you want,as we seam to be going round in circles now..

Scott

[benji]

nick was right. I think you was a tad harsh towards him there.

i was a bit harsh, sorry nick.

[benji]

i've decided what i will be getting. a 1600 16v, there is one for sale on eurorally that i am goingto enquire about, if that one goes before i get the cash together then i will get a diff for my 1400 and build a 1600 16v when a engine comes up cheap.

are the f15 and f13 ATB diffs the same? i was gonna get a diff in my f13 then stick that box on the 16v when i get it.

[Nick]

nick was right. I think you was a tad harsh towards him there.

i was a bit harsh, sorry nick.

no worries, apology accepted.

good to hear about the 1.6 16v, would be my personal preference.

At the end of they day, each of the choices are a good desicion for different reasons.

[CP]

You're all wrong - get a cossie engine in there and dare to be different.......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've got a few points that others have alluded to..... My points are all assuming Benjis' main concern is creating a good track car

1. Tuning a car is rather like making love to a beautiful woman..... sorry wrong story :lol:
Basically the result will only be as good as the weakest link. What I'm saying is i would get the car weight, body strenghtening, brakes, suspension, gear ratio, tyre choice etc sorted properly before i worried about chucking in loads of HP. The majority of road going tuned cars are badly compromised by peeps just chasing after a BHP figure to the exclusion of other far more important factors.

2. I'm not much of a driver but I reckon you are much better off with not quite enough power rather than too much. Its a confidence thing - if you feel you are gonna get bitten and come unstuck you won't drive with confidence and smoothly = faster. Russ may tell me I'm talking bollox on this 1 but thats how i see it.

3. This point follows on with the previous one - maybe better to spend your hard earned money being taught to drive better rather than extra hp ( Not aimed at you in particular Benji just making a general point) but I constantly see at trackdays people driving alsorts of things and 1 thing always stands out - the better drivers go faster.

4. After all is said and done, if all other factors are equal, more powerful engines will help you to lap quicker. The downside to this is weight and how it affects the overall balance of the car under braking, cornering and exiting corners. The other factor to consider is applying the power - we all know about this one. I've heard that 200hp is about the optimum power for a Nova which i would say is probably a pretty fair rule of thumb. The least weight you can get it with, will be the way to go.

[BigRuss]

1. Tuning a car is rather like making love to a beautiful woman..... sorry wrong story
Basically the result will only be as good as the weakest link. What I'm saying is i would get the car weight, body strenghtening, brakes, suspension, gear ratio, tyre choice etc sorted properly before i worried about chucking in loads of HP. The majority of road going tuned cars are badly compromised by peeps just chasing after a BHP figure to the exclusion of other far more important factors.

2. I'm not much of a driver but I reckon you are much better off with not quite enough power rather than too much. Its a confidence thing - if you feel you are gonna get bitten and come unstuck you won't drive with confidence and smoothly = faster. Russ may tell me I'm talking bollox on this 1 but thats how i see it.


Now I reckon you are talking.........





Sense :lol:

A good competition or trackday car has to be a complete package, not just a snorting monster of an engine in a little car. The areas to concentrate on are Handling/suspension, brakes, gear ratio and tyres as CP says.

These are the exact areas I concentrated on when building My car, AP brakes, Bilstein and Pilbeam suspension components, Quaife gearbox etc etc..... It's only this year have I got a really really good engine in it!!

Now with regards to driving, You are all aware of My past exploits in the car :oops: :cry: but again as CP said, to be quick you need to be smooth neat and tidy. Slower in is always faster out of a bend, it's only the last twelve months that I've realised I was trying too hard before and then making (BIG :oops: ) mistakes.

[benji]

cheers charles. i'll see about getting the engine i've seen and if that don't come good i will look at ploughing some cash into the suspension and gearbox.

[nova---chris]

Play nicely Girlies!!!! :lol: