whats best to do to tune my 160016v ecotec in my nova?

[jamie gsi16v]

whats best to do to tune my 160016v ecotec in my nova?
just finishing putting my 1600 16v ecotec engine in my nova but wana do some tuning now because i have heard they are very de restricted and can push out some big bhp increase, whats best to do first and where can i find some cheap parts as im on a budget? already scrapped the power steering, abs and gas resurculation. any ideas/number/sites etc?

[burgo]

free up the inlet side of things as thats where its restricted

[david dixon]

my mate has one in his nova and has fitted a 4 branch manifold and a piper exhaust and its pulled a 16.0 1/4 mile, have to admit its canny nippy.

[garyc]

slap on some throttle bodies and programmable ignition, a decent exhaust manifold and you will be well on the way to 150bhp.

[j1400]

On a budget you can put a chip in to raise the rev limit, and some ARP rod bolts in. then either a lexmaul or dbilas inlet manifold (mantzel and velos stuff is not available now) this will see about 130BHP.
Then you can either contiune with this, flow the head, mild 264 cams and manifold, and you may get up to 145 kinda area.

Or for all the money you just spend above (2k) you can stick throttle bodies on. and you'll run as said about 150 straight off, then cams head flow and see about 175, then you need forged pistons and lumpier cams.
(my head)
http://img178.echo.cx/img178/7072/image0110nj.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Or the budget verison, is to get a pair of weber 45s and then run ign only managment, this coudl be doen for about ?1000 instead of 2k.

You will also need a tubular manifold and a 2-2.25" bore exhaust to go with this.

[Aragorn]

miles i think ran a 15.9 with a standard 1.6 16v in his nova in road trim

Tb's and management should see 150-160bhp, cams will take it to 180ish and headwork/wilder cams/solid lifters to 200ish

160bhp in a nova should run low 14's really so thats what you should be aiming for with those mods

[jasononline]

On the cheap you could opt for bike carbs. Early R6 are a ideal size for a 1600. On the other hand bike throttle bodies would do the same job for a few more pennies.
Due the size of bike parts they fit in well in a tight engine bay

[Aragorn]

the majority of the cost is the management and wether u run carbs or tb's your still gonna need management for the ignition so u may as well just fit the tb's

as for the bike tb's its a good idea but might be worth just spending the little extra and getting tried and tested

[jasononline]

A fully programable ecu can be had for ?120 if you build your own Megasqurt unit.
Bike throttle bodies used on cars is not that un-usual, just tuners don't advertise a cheap alternative to their expensive kits. There is car after car in PPC every month running them. Dave Walker of Emerald tuned a set on a Fiesta using a MD3 ecu. Shenpar tune Peugoet 106 TU engines using bike carbs, I have also seen a few Suzuki swift GTI's running GSX-R throttle bodies.

[dunova]

What kind of BHP do you think a 20XEV would be putting out on throttle bodies alone? 175?

[Philsutton]

i think dar is running about 200 in his xe just on throttle bodies.
Like said before the power is lost in the inlet, if that is sorted the big increases can be seen.

[dunova]

i think dar is running about 200 in his xe just on throttle bodies.
Like said before the power is lost in the inlet, if that is sorted the big increases can be seen.

I thought he had it tuned up on throttle bodies?! 50BHP increase is awesome. Think i may look into getting me some throttle bodies...................

Or i suppose i could just do a 25XEV conversion for 1/10th of the cost :lol:

[j1400]

V6 :o yeah 200BHP, but meag weight, small block novas are the best option, esp now the 16v engines can put out enough power to break traction, why would you want more?

[S_Gault]

ARP bolts are silly in this engine, as its not the big end bolt that breaks in these, its the rod just below the little end.

I never build these without steel rods.

and you'll never put decent cams in these without pocketing the pistons as they just dont have room at TDC on overlap.

Steven

[Ben]

lol i know of at least 3 people running high power 1600 16v's that have thrown rods, obviously very unlucky.

[j1400]

I've been told SRE tested the 16v rods and found that 8k cont rpm were ok.
I also can think of a few high (ish) power engine running on std rods. Fair enough in full race tuen, you are talking about rods and solids.

But for a fast road, pocketed std pistons and ARP's with 285 cams will gove you abotu 170-175 whihc is enough really.

[S_Gault]

id doubt if gary dunn at swindon told you that!!!

they even break on std engines . Ive seen 3 this year already and its only April!

there are also other inherent problems with them like bottom keyway,

but they are a super engine when sorted.

Steven

[j1400]

So you're saying that the 8v rods don't have the same issue :?

It's justify using steel rods, ?600 :cry:

[S_Gault]

8v rods are fine.

[j1400]

That's handy, I was under the impression that the 16v rods are better due to the fractured Big end instead of the machined faces on the Big end of 8v rods :?
Does it have anything to do with the rev's used in the different engines? as the 16v engines seem to rev and rev?

James

[Will F]

standard rods are fine to 8k.
they are weakened though when they are heated to remove the piston and thats how they can fail.
I bought brand new standard rods and new omegas and so I will be fine!

Steel are needed over 8500

[S_Gault]

no sorry.. look i do this day in day out for a living!!

they will break.. just because they dont for you or your mate means f all squared.

I build a lot of formula 2 engines which have to use std parts... they do 8600rpm but only for 6 meetings.

I have to recall them to put rods in them.... they fatigue..

in most cases yours will be fine in a road car but you never know the history.. at least you put new ones in, that will guarantee you peace of mind

[Stuart]

so de-seamed peened 8V rods will die at 8500 (ish) rpm after sustained use?

hmm maybe my "it will see 9K once" line is gone lol

[j1400]

I think if I was gonna waste money on putting new rods in I'd pay the little extra for steel rods, and have the 9k piece of mind, just the crank then :?
But the hdyro lifter wouldn't really stand for 9k I doubt :wink:

[Stuart]

solids are the only way forwards ;)

[j1400]

Steel rods and solid and springs, only another 1200 of bits there, no problem justifying it to the g/f :lol:

But yeah, 300deg cams rock too 8)

[Aragorn]

im sure CP is only running deseamed and shoppeened rods in his 1.4 16v and its not exactly a tame spec with around 170bhp

are u saying that even deseamed and shotpeened 16v rods arent good enough for say 7750rpm sustained??

what about the hydraulic lifters? what kinda cams and RPM are they good for before they start dieing, im sure ive heard of approx 285degree cams on std hydraulics on a 16v but i dunno how high that could rev before they start jacking up

[S_Gault]

revs will kill them after a period of time... they will stick it but not forever.

if you lighten the pistons and rod assembly it will take a fair bit of load off them and they will last longer.

285s on hydralics will be ok..

but it all depends on the acceleration rate of the lifter on the lifting ramp of the cam.

i make my own using and insert in the std lifter, but you need to change the fitted height of the valve spring with a special top cap to run really good cams.

The next person that brings me one sure i'll take some pics and post it all up

[Aragorn]

so what would u say is the safe limit then?

i will be building TB'd 1600 for road use at some point in the medium term future and i wanna work out as much of the spec as i can

i had originally been under the impression that shotpeened and deseamed rods were good for 7.75-8k but if not what limit would u suggest taking them to? i dont wanna be replacing them "just incase" every 10k miles but simialrly i dont want the bottom end imploding on me

my idea was something along the lines of sorting the bottom end first an running the tb's with standard cams etc then after a few months perhaps going for cams and headwork etc