View Full Version : Who's been caught speeding on NL then?
I was convinced i had been caught, but it has been a month now so i've got away with it.
I was doing 58mph on a 50mph dual carriage way (that has a central divide so i think it should be 60mph!!!) and there was a portable one JUST as you get round abit of a bend so there's no time for braking. I was utterly convinced that i had been caught (especially because i've got a digi-dash and have 17" alloys so thought my realistic speed may have been just over 60mph), but maybe i was lucky.
I must admit though, i think nearly being caught does make you slow down abit and think a lot more about what speed you're doing.
So has anyone on here been caught?
i'm a good girl... :wink: so no... ha ha
apart from the usual conversation on the motorway "did you just see a flash?" :?
but i havent recieved anything yet
i'm still clean after 5 yrs (touch wood)
my mate is completely evil an for a laugh will walk by a speed camera with his camera tucked away and take a sneeky pic of cars so they think they've been got when they see the flash
clean for 2 1/2 years :lol: 8)
i thought i did in about feb time
was goin down a slip road and started bootin it to join motorway and just wasnt payin attention and the slip road was a 50 mph due to roadworks and got flashed about 60 ish but even as i was goin down mway seen it flash on about 10 people so as i dindnt recieve anythin i must have benn lucky and the camera run out of film
been carefull since then
Yeah i hate motorway trips-"What's that white car parked in the middle of the bridge?!?!" :lol:
What annoyed me recently was them lowering the speed limit to 50mph at the new severn bridge (which is fair enough), but then putting speed cameras up straight away!! They caught something like 90 people in a 3 hour stretch :o
What a money earner :roll:
i am very lucky, i speed daily (god love the m10) yet have no points after 4 years. I only speed on the m10 as it is straight road which is always empty where you can see about a mile in front of you
if police have the chance to pull you with a clear stretch will they. can they send threw the post. cause i saw a pig car with 2 cops in and they just looked at me.
By the way Ricks if you put
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/richyboy1987/rickohghgh.jpg
As your sig it should work :wink:
And as for police just driving around, there has to be at least 2 of them in the car to fine you because they need a witness. If it's one guy and he pulls you over then he hasn't got a leg to stand on-he can just give you a producer.
God i'm an idiot :roll:
Put
***http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/richyboy1987/rickohghgh.jpg***
but take out the stars at the beginning and the end :lol:
General Baxter
03-01-05, 12:18 AM
51 in a 30 3 point and ?60 fine :(
OMG this just gets worse, put
***http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/richyboy1987/rickohghgh.jpg***
and take off the stars :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
they dint av a speedo and i was quite far away
51 in a 30 3 point and ?60 fine
:o quite hefty for a 30 limit mate
Oh and Ricks i'll PM you. I truely am an anormous fool :oops:
51 in a 30 3 point and ?60 fine
:o quite hefty for a 30 limit mate
Oh and Ricks i'll PM you. I truely am an anormous fool :oops:
lol dont bother as admin will just remove it 138 pixels tut tut :lol:
lol dont bother as admin will just remove it 138 pixels tut tut
lol very true mate, hadn't seen that. And as for putting a camera up on a slip road that really is taking the pish :roll: I hate how they put them up in really sneeky ba**ard places-such as hidden behind a bridge/post :roll:
87 in a 60 overtaking a learner 5 points ?130 fine
48 in a 30 3 points ?60 fine.
2nd one was over 4 years ago.. 1st one will be wiped off in 11 months :D
wisewood
03-01-05, 08:41 AM
i'm still clean after 5 yrs (touch wood)
what you touching me for?? :lol:
I got caught in September 2001. Dual carriage way through an industrial estate... with a central reservation... 40mph limit. I was due at work at 09:00 and i got caught at 09:42 doing 58mph. It was a mobile unit witha gun that caught me - standing in a high vis yellow coat - standing at the side of a Sheffield City Council van.
La vie e belle.
terrible___1
03-01-05, 09:42 AM
i got caught doing 70 in a 30
got 6points and a ?155 fine in my 1st year
wisewood
03-01-05, 09:53 AM
I thought in the first 12 months 6 points got your license revoked?
hes still waiting for it to be taken away
:lol: :lol: :lol:
as for me
driving over 4 yrs
no points :roll: :roll: :roll:
i am very lucky, i speed daily (god love the m10) yet have no points after 4 years. I only speed on the m10 as it is straight road which is always empty where you can see about a mile in front of you
the m10 is funny
2 lane motorway 3 miles long thats all there is to it! good fun mind
I think it's over 12 points in the first 2 years and licensce gone. So 2 tickets and you're still okay. I thought if you double the limit or more though it's an instant court appearance?
wisewood
03-01-05, 12:25 PM
12 points is a ban anyway isn't it?
I am going to do some research :lol:
wisewood
03-01-05, 12:32 PM
Any person who aquires 12 or more points in a 3 year period is liable for a ban.
If a new driver should acrue 6 or more points on their license within the first two year probationary period after passing their first driving test, their license will be revoked by the DVLA until such time as they pass a further driving test. Such drivers should re-apply for a provisional driving license and are subject to the same rules as all other learner drivers. No appeal against the license being recoked can be made, however, an appeal can be made against the conviction which led to the revocation.
Accident Offences
CODE - Description...... penalty points.
AC10 Failing to stop after an accident.......... 5-10
AC20 Failing to give particulars or to report an accident within 24 hours.......... 5-10
AC30 Undefined accident offences.......... 4-9
Disqualified Driver
BA10 Driving whilst disqualified by order of court.......... 6
BA30 Attempting to drive while disqualified by order of court.......... 6
Careless Driving
CD10 Driving without due care and attention.......... 3-9
CD20 Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.......... 3-9
CD30 Driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users.......... 3-9
CD40 Causing death through careless driving when unfit through drink.......... 3-11
CD50 Causing death by careless driving when unfit through drugs.......... 3-11
CD60 Causing death by careless driving with alcohol level above the limit.......... 3-11
CD70 Causing death by careless driving then failing to supply a specimen for analysis.......... 3-11
Construction & Use Offences
CU10 Using a vehicle with defective brakes.......... 3
CU20 Causing or likely to cause danger by reason of use of unsuitable vehicle or using a vehicle with parts or accessories (excluding brakes, steering or tyres) in a dangerous condition.......... 3
CU30 Using a vehicle with defective tyre(s).......... 3
CU40 Using a vehicle with defective steering.......... 3
CU50 Causing or likely to cause danger by reason of load or passengers.......... 3
Reckless/Dangerous Driving
DD40 Dangerous Driving.......... 3-11
DD60 Manslaughter or culpable homicide while driving a vehicle.......... 3-11
DD80 Causing death by dangerous driving.......... 3-11
Drink or Drugs
DR10 Driving or attempting to drive with alcohol level above limit.......... 3-11
DR20 Driving or attempting to drive while unfit through drink.......... 3-11
DR30
Driving or attempting to drive then failing to supply a specimen for analysis..........
3-11
DR40
In charge of a vehicle while alcohol level above limit.......... 10
DR50
In charge of a vehicle while unfit through drink.......... 10
DR60
Failure to provide a specimen for analysis in circumstances other than driving or attempting to drive..........
10
DR70
Failing to provide specimen for breath test.......... 4
DR80
Driving or attempting to drive when unfit through drugs.......... 3-11
DR90
In charge of a vehicle when unfit through drugs.......... 10
Insurance Offences
IN10
Using a vehicle uninsured against third party risks.......... 6-8
Licence Offences
LC20
Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence.......... 3-6
LC30
Driving after making a false declaration about fitness when applying for a licence..........
3-6
LC40
Driving a vehicle having failed to notify a disability.......... 3-6
LC50
Driving after a licence has been revoked or refused on medical grounds..........
3-6
Miscellaneous Offences
MS10
Leaving a vehicle in a dangerous position.......... 3
MS20
Unlawful pillion riding.......... 3
MS30
Play street offences.......... 2
MS40
Driving with uncorrected defective eyesight or refusing to submit to a test..........
3
MS50
Motor racing on the highway.......... 3-11
MS60
Offences not covered by other codes.......... As Appropriate
MS70
Driving with uncorrected defective eyesight.......... 3
MS80
Refusing to submit to an eyesight test.......... 3
MS90
Failure to give information as to identity of driver etc.......... 3
Motorway Offences
MW10
Contravention of Special Roads Regulations (excluding speed limits)..........
3
Pedestrian Crossings
PC10
Undefined Contravention of Pedestrian Crossing Regulations.......... 3
PC20
Contravention of Pedestrian Crossing Regulations with moving vehicle..........
3
PC30
Contravention of Pedestrian Crossing Regulations with stationary vehicle..........
3
Speed Limits
SP10
Exceeding goods vehicle speed limits.......... 3-6
SP20
Exceeding speed limit for type of vehicle (excluding goods or passenger vehicles)..........
3-6
SP30
Exceeding statutory speed limit on a public road.......... 3-6
SP40
Exceeding passenger vehicle speed limit.......... 3-6
SP50
Exceeding speed limit on a motorway.......... 3-6
SP60
Undefined speed limit offence.......... 3-6
Traffic Direction and Signs
TS10
Failing to comply with traffic light signals.......... 3
TS20
Failing to comply with double white lines.......... 3
TS30
Failing to comply with "Stop" sign.......... 3
TS40
Failing to comply with direction of a constable/warden.......... 3
TS50
Failing to comply with traffic sign (excluding - stop -signs, traffic lights or double white lines)..........
3
TS60
Failing to comply with a school crossing patrol sign.......... 3
TS70
Undefined failure to comply with a traffic direction sign.......... 3
Special Code
TT99
To signify a disqualification under totting-up procedure. If the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years, the driver is liable to be disqualified..........
Theft or Unauthorised Taking
UT50
Aggravated taking of a vehicle.......... 3-11
I think it's over 12 points in the first 2 years and licensce gone. So 2 tickets and you're still okay. I thought if you double the limit or more though it's an instant court appearance?
6 points or more in first 2 yrs and u lose ur licence and have to retake the theory and test again
12 points is for ppl who have had licence over 2 yrs
wisewood
03-01-05, 12:37 PM
but its 12 points within 3 years. so if you get your first 3 points in year one, and then get 9 in year 4, you're ok because the first three cant be counted.
LC30
Driving after making a false declaration about fitness when applying for a licence..........
3-6
WTF?!
And
MS30
Play street offences.......... 2
WTF?! Does that cover driving over a kids football :lol: :?
wisewood
03-01-05, 12:54 PM
The LC30 referrs to things like stating that you are in good health and have no limbs missing etc. Your health and ability to drive is one of the things considerred when you send off for your license. Most people assume that once you've passed your driving test you are entitled to a full uk driving license. Not the case.
well i think i top the leader board on this one.
3 points ?60 fine. doing 99.38 on motorway (copper weren't impressed. i overtook him whilst he was parked at 110. took him 5 miles to catch me)
7 day ban and ?100 fine. 103.48 down a dual carriageway in guildford.
okok, i was in a 1.1 saxo trying my hardest to blow the engine up.
kinda didn't see the vx senator in the middle of road. did think about trying to escape lmao
3 points and ?60 fine. 99 ish was my speed (well what i told the copper anyway) he laughed. did over take an unmarked vectra thou. (then the cheeky sod asked what i had under it and asked to buy it off me)
3 points ?60 fine, doing 45 in a 30. its a dual carriage way but it is one after a hospital. so reduced speed area
so i think i win!
i am a much better friver now.
30 in a 30, 40 in a 40. 120 in a 60 and limiter on motorway.
:lol: :lol:
these are still on my liscense but they are wellold now thou.
i'd have to check if some are still valid (think 01 wasd the last time)
just a note
i do not promote speeding to anyone, you are the only person to pay the price.
my insurance kinda went up.
plus all the times i was caught i was going onto dual carriageways, so i was doing it away from pedestrian areas. (not an excuse)
i will however, keep my heavy foot for the track days now and the pod.
see my results as we get there.
wisewood
03-01-05, 01:09 PM
Speeding points stay on your license for 4 years. So unless any of the points were in the first couple of days of 2001, they'll all still be there Sean :lol:
i was allways under the impression that if you were caught doing opver 100mph, then it gives them the ability to take your liscence away (or 40mph over a speedlimit)
wisewood
03-01-05, 01:15 PM
being caught at 100mph on any road gives the the option of an immediate ban.
exactly.. so sean is lucky to be still driving ? or is that what the 7 day ban was for ?
i've not been caught speeding in over a year. and im sure it'l carry on that way
7 day ban was for doing over 103mph, the other were so close thou.
first one was on motorway at 12.30am so no cars
the other was after work, but road had about 3 cars on it.
if the roads were alot more busy, then court action would have been taken. dangerous driving or driving with undue care and attention. (danger to other road uses)
wisewood
03-01-05, 01:22 PM
Well if you look at the points he's aquired, if he gets another 3 any time soon it's likely to result in a ban anyway.
I used to race around all over the place - and would always do 40 in a 30, 55 in a 40 etc... but recently having the trip computer in the clio has shown e the error of my ways. Actually being able to see how many miles worth of fuel you have left, and seeing that figure fall rapidly when you plant your foot and drive like a pratt wakes you up quite alot. i cant afford to pay a fortune out on fuel - and driving at the speed limit, and not over working the gears gives me about 460 miles per tank of fuel in the clio... without driving like too much of a grandad. :lol:
Driving around really fast wastes money at the end of the day - money you could spend on keeping your in good working order for years to come... help stop nova's from becoming extinct.
Matt2107
03-01-05, 02:00 PM
I have 3 points for doing 40 something in a 30 zone.
The signs had a 30 crossed out and 40 written underneath real small on a road that I use every day. They had just put the signs up and set up a 4 car trap with a camera van.
The copper going through the ticket were new starters.
Philsutton
03-01-05, 02:08 PM
i have 3 points for doing 97mph on a dual carriage way in my 1.2i lol, i got another 3 points last year cos some stupid bint in bmw cut me up an under took me. I didnt take it well an forced her into on coming traffic an shot off down a 40 zone at about 90. There was an undercover cop car right behide me an got me on film doing it
3 points for sitting on my arse watching telly lol.
Apparently I was doing 41 in a 30 zone at Lydford on the A37. However, the time on the ticket was about 45 minutes before I was even leaving my house (I know because I was late picking up my then gf in bath, oops :lol:), but I had no witnesses to prove I wasn't there at the time. The fuzz were packing up and moving on when I drove through (incidentally, at 30mph - I remember seeing the van and checking my speed).
Didn't want to challenge it in the court, as at the time I thought it would just be my word against a coppers and I didn't want to face a heftier fine/more points/court fees etc. Hasn't made any difference on my insurance either.
My mate got 6 points and ?150 fine for planting it away from the lights in town (30 zone) - The copper was sat in a side road, cunningly hidden behind a small wall, clocked him at 58 (when he was blatently doing over 60!!). Luckily they didn't noitce his exhaust was hanging off, even though you could hear it halfway across town :lol:
well i just checked my liscense it looks like i am ok.
3 points 22/03/97
7d ban 26/06/98
3 points 29/05/01
3 points 05/10/01
so not long to go before thru are all cleared.
looks good on liscense. almost filled the page.
Philsutton
03-01-05, 02:58 PM
might have to go check my lience now, although i think ive lost it
?Marty?
03-01-05, 08:15 PM
When i come on NL i never speed, i browse the site economically and safely.
Congratulations to Marty! The first person to realise the true question of the post! You win a thumbs up :+:
i have no idea how ive NOT been done yet, esp with the omega lol
i had a ring twitching 4 weeks after trax when i thought i went through a tuvelo at 105+ (lorry obsurred its view me thinks.
i think ive got another 2 weeks to wait till i can relax about doing between 29 and 35 through the 30 cam outside my flat lol.
rachaelrebekah
04-01-05, 01:17 AM
i got followed once for it i over took an unmarked car doing 60 in a 30 zone!! didnt get fined or owt just got told not do it again. i slowed down when i realised what id done but she followed me all the way home!!
Got off with 60 in a 30?!?! Did u flash ur boobs or something?!?!
rachaelrebekah
04-01-05, 01:23 AM
nah it was two days before christmas so she said coz it was near to crimbo she wasnt gonna do owt bout it plus she cudnt prove it coz there was only her.
I have been pulled over 4 times-doing 48 in a 30 (though to be fair i really thought it was a 40 limit), doing 60 in a 40 limit, and twice for driving within the limit and being a completely law obiding citizen!!
Just shows really, in a nova they'll stop you if you're breaking the limit or not :lol:
me. Also got false info from the polis
probert_nova
04-01-05, 10:37 AM
i think they only have 1 copper to each car where i live-
last week, i took a round about like it wasn't there in my parents corsa c and didn't see the copper hiding. he chased me up the bypass and then clocked me doing 69.42 (i had slowed down at this point for his other m8 hiding at the next round) i sh*t a brick when i saw them flashin lights. the cheeky tw*t tried telling me he had been trying to get me to pull over for a mile when i have three witnesses sayin he didin't have his lights on. luckily he was the only one in the car so i didn't get any points.
i got stopped again yesterday though, this time in my nova. the bearded woman copper tried telling me to take my clear clusters off coz my right brake light was showin up white. it was only the red coating coming off the bulb. :evil:
3 points they come off in july
got caught doing 38 in a 30 in me gte
dan_mk1
04-01-05, 11:39 AM
You lot need this! :wink:
http://www.premierdirect.co.uk/ranewpanel3.gif
I have one for sale! :wink:
Ive never been caught speeding, never been flashed, only ever get pulled over doing stupid speeds late at night, always been let off!
Don't think i have a USB port in my car :lol:
What does it do apart from detect speed camera's?
General Baxter
04-01-05, 11:54 AM
tells you where the closest mac donalds is :lol:
Matt Nova
04-01-05, 11:58 AM
no points on my licence only been pulled twice once for driving too slow other for nearly reversing into a copper :oops:
will have been driving 2 years in may so its not bad at all
General Baxter
04-01-05, 12:06 PM
i got pulled over on my bike for!
wait for it!
the wrong gear, was doing 30mph in a 30 zone in 5 about 2000rpm :lol:
i got pulled over on my bike for!
wait for it!
the wrong gear, was doing 30mph in a 30 zone in 5 about 2000rpm
So why did he pull you over?! 2000rpm-what's wrong with that?!
General Baxter
04-01-05, 12:17 PM
So why did she pull you over?! 2000rpm-what's wrong with that?!
woman! + the ideal rev range in 5 gear is about 8000rpm, is it was nearly on stall speed i was just being lasy and not changing gear! :lol:
I cant believe SHE pulled you over for that!! What a fecking loser! Women hey :roll:
dan_mk1
04-01-05, 01:16 PM
Don't think i have a USB port in my car :lol:
What does it do apart from detect speed camera's?
the usb is to update it :roll:
Picks up mobile speed cameras, fixed gatsos, truvelos.
Tells you your speed by gps! :wink:
Gives longditude, latitude, compass etc
:lol:
the car im using at the mo cant break speed limits on the motorway
lmfao
Don't think i have a USB port in my car :lol:
What does it do apart from detect speed camera's?
the usb is to update it :roll:
Picks up mobile speed cameras, fixed gatsos, truvelos.
Tells you your speed by gps! :wink:
Gives longditude, latitude, compass etc
:lol:
Dan, how accurate are they? I was thinking of getting one when I get a GT4, the snooper I have at the moment just beeps at everything lol
I got pulled over and fined for speeding on my push bike :twisted: Although the fine says failing to comply with traffic signals :?
Other than that I have been caught twice. Once ages ago! On a duel carriageway with no speed limit signs. so was happly doing 58 and got pulled because apparently it was a 30mph area?? Ho hum.
and again about a year ago by a fecking camera on a duel carriageway that was hidden behind a bridge :x
Has anyone actually stuck strictly to the speed limit for a long-ish journey? I do every time im trailering the Nova, and I can get quite an impressive queue of traffic building up behind me :lol: Which makes me wonder just how many people can honestly say that they DO NOT SPEED. Not that many me thinks.
dan_mk1
04-01-05, 01:49 PM
Don't think i have a USB port in my car :lol:
What does it do apart from detect speed camera's?
the usb is to update it :roll:
Picks up mobile speed cameras, fixed gatsos, truvelos.
Tells you your speed by gps! :wink:
Gives longditude, latitude, compass etc
:lol:
Dan, how accurate are they? I was thinking of getting one when I get a GT4, the snooper I have at the moment just beeps at everything lol
How accurate? which bit? the speedo seems spot on.
And its picked up every camera ive came across bar one. And its got a store function so it remembers it for next time. Tis good, does exactly what it says on the tin. I just dont do enough driving to justify the ?350 it cost!
most gps is accurate to 0.1 mph
dan_mk1
04-01-05, 02:54 PM
There ya go, Clios clocks are 1mph out at 137mph! :wink:
well i think i top the leader board on this one.
3 points ?60 fine. doing 99.38 on motorway (copper weren't impressed. i overtook him whilst he was parked at 110. took him 5 miles to catch me)
7 day ban and ?100 fine. 103.48 down a dual carriageway in guildford.
okok, i was in a 1.1 saxo trying my hardest to blow the engine up.
kinda didn't see the vx senator in the middle of road. did think about trying to escape lmao
3 points and ?60 fine. 99 ish was my speed (well what i told the copper anyway) he laughed. did over take an unmarked vectra thou. (then the cheeky sod asked what i had under it and asked to buy it off me)
3 points ?60 fine, doing 45 in a 30. its a dual carriage way but it is one after a hospital. so reduced speed area
so i think i win!
i am a much better friver now.
30 in a 30, 40 in a 40. 120 in a 60 and limiter on motorway.
:lol: :lol:
these are still on my liscense but they are wellold now thou.
i'd have to check if some are still valid (think 01 wasd the last time)
New Leader, I'm really proud to say I've had 15 points for various things, resulting in a ban, all points and no prizes, about ?1100 in fines,
All clean now, over 5 years old, as I behave myself now, and have grown out of it quite a bit, insurance is cheap and I want to keep it that way.
?Marty?
05-01-05, 04:50 PM
I came round a corner once doing 28 or so in a 30 zone, and was pulled over immediately. Bacause it ''souded like you were going much faster''. Yeah, ok then. Cock.
Philsutton
05-01-05, 05:22 PM
ive had that a few time, just cos i was in second gear at 30 they asume im going faster knob heads
Police car's containing speed cameras or traps cannot hide behind objects.
you MUST beable to see the policeman/police veichel from a minimal distance (hence the signs e.t.c)
A New camera can't be used for a certain period of time after it's installation.
go and ask at a police station, or one of those daft volunteer groups. ]
The only way you can get caught is by blatently going past a van, not knowing the location of a speed trap, or by overtaking or not seeing a car.
So if you pay attention you should never have a reason to be caught speeding. One of those GPS detectors would make it even less likely that you'd ever get cuaght.
Police car's containing speed cameras or traps cannot hide behind objects.
Interesting... the fuzz were hiding behind a wall when they caught my mate.
?Marty?
06-01-05, 12:53 PM
All these 'they must not be hiding blaa blaa' rules and regulations are just guidance. Say what you like, breaking the speed limit is a STRICT LIABILITY OFFENCE meaning it isn't subject to mitigation and etc. You do it, you're guilty. End of.
PS i have 9 points. lol
You do it, you're guilty. End of.
True... best way to avoid getting caught is to not speed in the first place.
Remember kids... Uncle Road_Knight says "Drive Safe!"
lol
Been stopped in a tractor before, got away with it though, a waste of time.
dan_mk1
06-01-05, 01:34 PM
You do it, you're guilty. End of.
True... best way to avoid getting caught is to not speed in the first place.
Remember kids... Uncle Road_Knight says "Drive Safe! And buy a road angel off Dan!!"
lol
Much better! :wink:
?Marty?
06-01-05, 03:02 PM
Get your belly a biscuit! lol
My point was simply stop moaning about how unfair it was about HOW you got caught, when you were SPEEDING. Don't like the consequences, don't do it.
shedonwheels
15-01-05, 10:09 PM
i got pulled by a t5 at 131mph when i had 5 turbo ask piggy to see video and he said i forgot to turn it on then he checked my car over and he did me for a slightly off tracked tire ?30 fine. but he was :oops:
shedonwheels
15-01-05, 10:09 PM
i got pulled by a t5 at 131mph when i had 5 turbo ask piggy to see video and he said i forgot to turn it on then he checked my car over and he did me for a slightly off tracked tire ?30 fine. but he was :oops:
whitty_nova_1300sr
18-01-05, 11:07 PM
no points as of yet (touch wood), just love my jammer saved me :D :D
My point was simply stop moaning about how unfair it was about HOW you got caught, when you were SPEEDING. Don't like the consequences, don't do it. <===---- very ture total agree
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