Turbo conversion

[pingu_turbo]

Im sure everyone is sick of hearing about this, but ill ask anyway. :? I want to get a 1.6 8v turbo somehow. I have saved enough money to be able to afford the courteney conversion, but i very reluctant to go for it as ive heard it isnt 'ideal'. Id rather build my own.

I am fairly competant with engines, but as ive never had a good look at a 1.6 8v T or even a let, im not sure where to begin on the building of it.

The only other thing that im not to clued up on is the electrics, as ive got an e16se I wanted to ditch the afm (i dont see how it can work wiv a turbo) in favour of something else? a map sensor or summit?

Im aware that it is gonna cost mega bucks, and im prepared to get onto it.

Sorry for the essay :roll: , but im struggling for info or peeps to help me.


Many thanks
Mark

[Adam Moran]

NovaNeil is the chap you'll want to speak to.

He will post here very soon no doubt

I'm only down the road from you and i know my way round a car so give me a shout if you want a hand :wink:

Ad

[peester]

ditto mate.

http://www.novaload.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=100671

[pingu_turbo]

Thanks for the replys guys, But it appears not many people know about their own turbo conversions! :roll:

[peester]

i agree with you there mate. bit pants, ain't it.

[geordie_racer]

what do you want to know?

if it was my build id start by sorting the mounting of the turbo and actuator(sp.)

if your using after market management then ditchin the afm is no problem you'd just need to wire in a map sensor.

then after this you'll need to sort,

boost pipe routing via intercooler to inlet
intercooler mounting and plumbing
poss new injectors
oil and cooling components routing

anything else you need to know?

chris

[pingu_turbo]

Thanks for the post mate, I didnt really know where to start.
I was planning on using aftermarket management.
Ive got just a few more:
With the oil filter, ive heard it has to be re-located some where. How/where?
Also with the oil cooling, How do i plumb a cooler in for that?
With the aftermarket management, do i need to fit a lambda sensor, or does it depend on the brand? I was thinking of a DTA.

Many thanks again,
Mark :)

[j1400]

For the oil filter and cooler set up, you need a oil take off plate then on top of that a filter take off plate. You can then mount the oil filter on the front leg on the right hand side there's just enough room, wherever you can fit it really, then you need some braided hydrolyic lines to run to the oil cooler that you squeesed between the inter cooler and raditor. and you're away.

With mappable management you don't need to put a lambda sensor in, it's just somethign you cna choose to for mapping purposes, however on a turbo the ideal AFR is not 14.5 under high boost conditions, it would need to go to a tuner with a WB lambda to be set up correctly.

DTA would be a good choice if you could get neil to give his map as a base so you can get it to the RR to be mapped up.

[NovaNeil]

Hello there,

Yes mine is DTA'd.... The cost to do this (DTA it) on top of the cost of already having most of the Turbo bits (ie:Turbo, Manifold, Intercooler etc) is about ?2000-?2500 the reason for this is there was a lot of hidden factors that I didn't realise when I took on the project. Firstly DTA requires a few things to operate, assuming your going to be running a closed loop system like me (no need for Lamba sensor required) then you will need a crank sensor (My engine didn't have one, not sure if the later dizzyless ones do or not) A variable resistance Potentiometer (the standard GSi Throttle body just has a throttle switch 0-5v I believe, DTA requires a variable one so that it can know engine load (throttle body position)) I used a modded VW Golf one) Then an Air temp sensor has to be added in the inlet manifold. oh and an ignition pack (if you have the early dizzy iginition 8v engine). Ermmmm and apart from a load of wiring thats about all the DTA needs to run... It plugs (sorry wires) into your original fuel pump relay and water temp, and I also ran a boost controller off the system.

Thats the DTA sorted, now the rest of the engine will require:
Lowered compression (decompression plate or pocketed pistons etc)
Uprated fuel pressure/fuel pump & injectors (if you want to run more than about 160bhp)
Turbo of course along with a manifold.
Oil or Water cooled pipes feeding to the turbo to cool it (I had a direct oil feed coming out of the pump.
An oil return hose to the sump from Turbo (I had a linking pipe brazed into the sump.
Intercooler or someway off cooling the charge temp (I had intercooler and Water injection... Or you could use a charge cooler)
The neccesary pipe work linking the Filter to the Turbo.... Turbo to cooler.... Cooler to inlet manifold.
As mentioned a remote oil filter as the Turbo hits the standard one as its sticks out too far.

Then all you need is about 4-6hours on a rolling road having it mapped by someone who knows what they are doing.....

Easy hey.....lol

Or you could just ask me for a map on floppy disc as I have different ones for different occassions. :D

I think thats all you need to know. I'l post again if I remember more.

[NovaNeil]

Oh I forgot.... You also need a Map Sensor, so that DTA knows when its boosting, and atmospheric pressure.

Neil

[geordie_racer]

my suggestion would be for mark to relay what we've just told him back to here so we can make sure he's taking it all in correctly

chris

[benji]

neil, pocketed pistons, can any engineering shop do this? is it just a case of modifying the standard pistons. how much needs taking out of each piston?

cheers

[benji]

what size turbo is best to use? and what car's can i get a 2nd hand one from

[pingu_turbo]

Thanks for all your replys guys! :o
Here you go geordie_racer, Heres what ive taken in, so far.... :)

Start off with a turbo, manifold (do courtney make this?) and intercooler and get all pipework for that sorted out. Im then im not sure which way to do it, but somehow im gonna rig up the oil cooling on turbo (What size cooler do you think would be best?), with a remote filter mounted somewhere (ill know more when i get the rest in). Then for the dta i need an air temp sensor and map sensor (do these go after the turbo/before the tb?) to go on the inlet and a new throttle position sensor (fully proportional). Then i need to get a crank sensor and trigger disc (whos make of crank sensor & disc works with the dta?), and a disc pac (where do i get that from?). The origional fuel pump relay and water temp can be used, just gotta figure out wireing.

Then for the engine I want to get low comp pistons rather than a spacer plate (any suggestions what make?).

Do i need to get a new downpipe fabricated for the turbo?

For the turbo, like benji said whats the best way of getting one? a recon or a service exchange? id rather not buy new.

For the throttle pos sensor, air temp sensor and map sensor, do i need to get them off a certain car?

Oh and most important of all is to strenghthen the bay.

There I think thats it. :P
Mark

[Will F]

There is a 1.6 8v turbo for sale in the FS section.
?700 and save yourself a lot of time and effort!

[pingu_turbo]

I already tried that one, it went over the weekend. :(

[benji]

DO A SEARCH FOR MEGASQUIRT (bastard caps lock) on google or yahoo, that is a fully mappable ecu which you build yourself around ?100 for the kit and closer to ?200 if you want it put together for you. you should also be able to get a wiring diagram for a loom to build yourself

[geordie_racer]

right here we go,

ive thought alot bout the megasquirt management stuff over the last couple of weeks and although it is no doubt very good im not sure if id want to use it for full on standalone engine managemnt for both fueling and ignition, probaly more for a throttle body application or ignition management like carbs which from what ive seen is generally what its used for.

Next up whatever engine management you choose, unless your very confident of how the cars wiring works i wouldn't recommend making your own loom as it can be a real pain in the arse messing about with it all.

Next is my choice of management would probably be emerald as ive read a few of dave walkers books and have a lot of respect for him and the system seems really good, but that is very dependant on personal choice and also wherever you're having it mapped what there more comfortable with.

As for which size turbo your looking at either a T2 or T3 which mostly will depend on what power figure your wanting, if you want the most power possible then T3 or if you have a set figure in mind which will be closer to the upper limit of a T2 than the lower limit of a T3 then you'd want a T2.(ie. if your power figure was in an overlap of the 2 turbos and 1 was 80% of the T2's total power but say 20% of the T3's limit id go for the T2.)

Map Sensor, one from any car will but pref a 3 bar sensor as opposed to a 2 bar.

Air Temp sensor the same any car will do just check how its wired

Throttle pos sensor, can't remember ask neil lol

Which is better, low comp pistons or spacer plate? low comp pistons but cost ??? try sbd for price, spacer plate will work just aswell as long as the engine is properly built. as for where, pistons sbd or raldes or maybe a rally website and spacer plate just take a headgasket long to an engineering shop.

Exhaust, you will need to fabricate a system from the turbo to the nova middle section.

Exhaust manifold to turbo adaptor, wouldn't bother with courteney too expensive and no need. Get yourself a bit of 5mm thick steel, draw the exhaust manifold exit onto it with all holes for bolts and the exhaust bore, then do the same on the other side for turbo inlet, now get the metal cut to shape and the holes cut out at an engineering shop(or use a pillar drill if you have access) this will give you an adaptor plate to mount the turbo to exhaust manifold, if any of the holes overlap from manifold to turbo then get yourself some studding and then use a nut either side to clamp them together(studding is like the little gold things that the nuts tighten to on the manifold to head fixings, if you can't find any just get a piece of pole the right diameter and get an engineers shop to thread(die) it correctly for you

remote oil filter, try sbd raldes rally sets etc.

cranksensor and trigger disc i think megasquirt do and im sure there pretty universal so will work with most management.

dispack is an ignition setup just get one of an astra gte or similer 2 litre vaux

fuel pump not sure try a astra gte etc one or get a rising rate fuel regulator, neil??

oil pipe to turbo, you can do like neil feed staright from pump or get a t piece that goes in where the pressure sensor is and feed from there(prob easier?) water/coolant piping just t piece into the current system at most suitable place.

Engine Bay Strengthning same as for the valver conversions really.

Injectors, if you're going for more than 160bhp then new ones will be required what you go for depends on the power your looking for as its down to duty cycle percentage n stuff similer to the turbo overlap explained earlier.

Oil return, just need a pipe welding into the sump and then just plump it in.

As for the actual building of it a comprehensive parts list would go like this,(in no real order)

1 rebuilt gsi/gte engine with ancilleries(ecu, coil etc.)
1 T2/T3 Turbo (look in the back of most car mags, try the ford websites for rs turbo t3 like passion ford or for t2 try renault gt turbo sites/mags)
1 Remote Oil Locator (try sbd/raldes/rally websites mags like practical performance car maybe even demon tweeks?)
low comp pistons, (try sbd etc. or spacer plate just correct thickness steel and headgasket take to local engineering shop, try finding one based on reputation not just out the yellow pages)
T piece for oil feed(demon tweeks i think?)
Aftermarket Management,(dta/emerald/autronic/megasquirt/wolf the list goes on try different mags speak to others off here, other places)
Loom for Aftermarket Management(either buy one from the supplier of ecu unless your really confident and do it yourself, or possibly get the diagrams and nova haynes and get an electrician to make a decent diagram etc. i could prob do this for you but the wiring really will come last)
Intercooler, (Rs Turbo unit or frontera, try ford forums scrappys etc. vauxhall, autovaux, on here etc)
Oil Cooler(if you go for one r5 turbo has them not sure bout other cars bit i know theres plenty so follow as per turbo)
Crankshaft Sensor & Disc(Try megasquirt sure they'll sort you out or speak to supplier of engine management)
Map Sensor/Air Temp Sensor/TPS(scrapyard shopping could prob rob all these bits for free while looking for other bits or collect them free from people on here that have spares as there not really worth much)
Wide Band Lambda Probe(not strictly necessary but if your goin to all this trouble then you may aswell)
Guages, boost guage definately and theres another but it escapes me right now think its oil pressure? neil??
Fuel Injectors, use 2 litre vaux ones if youre going for more than 160bhp


Finally think that covers nearly everything just a few more things,

1. if you took offence from me asking to repeat what you were getting non was intended but as you can see from this rather epic post theres a lot you need to take in and you really need to be able to get your head round how it all works and fits together before you start.

2. i once had a diagram showing hoe you would plum up a turbo system if you want i can dig it out, sure i posted it on here once, it was very basic but covered what was needed you'd literally just have to get the pipng ans follow the diagram

3. the wiring is probably the worst part because of the custom loom, depending on where you are and IF you get this far i might pop over and help you with it or if you get me the wiring details for the ecu ill knock u up a decent color to color wiring diagram

4. If you've read this far i hope to god you have an interest in doing this or just want to learn

anymore questions just ask,

cheers
chris

[shaney-b]

sorry mate i have that and it was a grate bargin

[pingu_turbo]

Wow, thats a big novel! :D
Just so you know i didnt take offence in what you said, and I have got my head around how it all works, ive been reading books on fuel injection systems and how/what/why things are there.

As for building the engine i dont think that it will be too much of a problem, i have re built many nova engines before, including the one i currently am running, but if something is worrying me i will ask.

One thing tho, with t-ing the oil feed straight off of the oil pump, wont it affect the oil flow for the rest of the engine, meaning a lesser pressure? and also, this may be a silly question, but the oil return from the turbo, is it alot hotter than the engine temp? does this matter?

Thanks again for covering all the finer points that i have highlighted I will begin this week on me manifold and sorcing a turbo. :lol:

Thanks again.
Mark

[maxpaine]

its there kit for a 1.3 for turbo??

[geordie_racer]

maxpaine have you actually read this thread? :roll:

its quite clear in here that apart from the c20let there was no stock or kit turbo's available for vauxhall engines hence my very lengthy post of on how to build your own turbo engine, the principles are the same for all engines so just adapt whats been written to your particuler engine the only issue you'll have is with the engine being carb but theres a few ways of getting round this and if you can't come up with one then you shouldn't be trying a project like this im afraid

chris

[Serialkilla]

Yer mate with a carb engine all you gotta do is buy a fuel pressure regulator for a turbo carb (from Demon Tweeks), and change the jets in the carb or buy twin webbers or a direct replacement carb.

Or


Modify the jets in the carb (if your brave enough)

[Snowface]

neil, pocketed pistons, can any engineering shop do this? is it just a case of modifying the standard pistons. how much needs taking out of each piston?

cheers

Mine are pocketed but since i got billy b+ big valves on they are to big for the pockets now lol.

http://uk.geocities.com/snowface_85/P1010088.jpg

http://uk.geocities.com/snowface_85/P1010091.jpg

also had the block face skimmed. No engine number on block now lol.