BHP ?

[Anonymous]

Not sure if this is technical or not ?

what sort of difference is ther in BHP figures from the wheels to the flywheel. I know the flywheel is higher but roughly by how much ?

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

when you go on the rolling road you will see the figure on the dial. ie mine is 160 @ the wheels. because of the clutch,gearbox and shafts you gain 10-15 % at the flywheel. so you estimate it up. so add 10-15% on 160 bhp = roughly 175-185 bhp @ the flywheel.

[Anonymous]

this is how i understand it any way! ;)

[Anonymous]

talkin of BHP what should a standard Mk 1 Nova Sr 1.3 kick out?

just wondering cause im doing a rolling road day on the 14th of july so i just wanna know what to expect

[Anonymous]

Well my car is a 1.4sr with a K&N and Piper Evo 3 rear box exhaust, I had it on the rolling road last night for the first time and it read at just over 80 BHP at the wheels and I just wanted to know what this was at the flywheel and if this figure is any good ?

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

I believe its actually more like 17-20%, and most rr places quote an extra 20%. Of course its going to be different in different cars due to gearing and drag etc etc...

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[Anonymous]

that means i am running 192 bhp
with chip, exhaust and airfilter ????????

[Anonymous]

Damian have you got standard carb on?

Mine ran 80 @ wheels with K+N, weber 32/34 and Janspeed Backbox.

This is the 4th case i've heard of 1.4 sr's getting 80 @ wheels with hardly any mods. Tested on different rollers.

I'm sick off people saying the figure is bollocks. Looks like there's just some good engines out there.

Your flywheel figure will be roughly 100-105 (standard gsi power) which, is obviously pretty cool.

As for wheels v fly figures. Saxo's figure badly here. My mate has a chipped vts 147 bhp @ fly but a measly 110 at wheels.

37 bhp lost through the drivetrain OUCH.

B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!
B-)

[Anonymous]

I take it you've got a 2L16v.

If so it is poss. Ian Storeys ran 200BHP @ Fly with chip, exhaust and filter.

B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!
B-)

[Anonymous]

Fenix - It is a twin choke Carb, its a pierburg not a webber. K&N Bolt on and Evo Back Box.

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

i didnt think that was possible !
tony @ redline tuning in iver said i had 177-182 @ the flywheel

[Anonymous]

They cant actually measure flywheel power m8. All figures are taken from the wheels and then a flywheel figure is caculated, so I dont know how they woked out that he was running 147 @ fly if they only read 110 @ wheels.

Dave P, I`m guessing u have a valver. All rollers will read different, I`ve been to two in one week b4, and both gave quite different readings. The powerzone rollers showed Ians valver had 200bhp at fly, and I believe his has same mods as u. Most rollers I`ve been to wether with my own car or someone elses have always quoted an extra 17-20% for fly. A valver with no cat should be 156ish, possibly more once the head is coked up, and the pistons and rings are worn and loose. Add a decent system to that giving up to 10bhp (Nova system is shorter so less back pressure)your filter working at best with other mods giving 5ish and ya chip giving 10% on top of that and u should be looking at around the 185 to 190 mark, so 192 wouldnt be wildly out allowing for roller discrepencies would it.

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[Anonymous]

MC i think it is a computer programme they use when they run the rolling road session. You type in the make and model of car before the session is started.

This would be accurate for cars with standard gearboxes but if you swap them it could be inaccurate.

B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!
B-)

[Anonymous]

sounds like 200 bhp isnt too far away !

[Anonymous]

Fenix,
Do you know wher your m8 had his done. If you do, do you think it would be possible to find out what power is lost through the GM boxes, It would take the guesswork out of all of this.

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[Anonymous]

isnt the true power of an engine at the flywheel?? i say this because for a rotary device to move they have to overcame an inertia? the flywheel therefore "absorbs" power to make the car run(to overcome the inertia of a static device) and make the ride smooth? so you loose about 20 BHP at the wheels? or is my uni course teaching me the wrong stuff???
neway my point is cant u say ur true power is power at the flywheel cos it is really??? so i could say my sr is running bout 90bhp??

[-dave_hay.jpg-]
Dave_Hay@novaload.org.uk
Dave_Hay5@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

That is the general idea m8. Nobody was doubting that. The discussion was about how u calculate it from the reading obtained at the wheels.

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[Anonymous]

i'll try and find out MC.

Dave. All manufacturers quote flywheel figures. Which is why these sr's running so high with few mods is hard to believe. But with 4 seperate cases. Mine tested on rollers only days after they'd been calibrated. It's looking like it's true.

MC what's ur opinion on this mate?

B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!
B-)

[Anonymous]

sorted just spoke to bernie @ novatech
with his rolling road they add 10-15 % to make the difference.
he quoted "this is roughly the same on all gm front wheel drive cars with the f12 through to the f20 gearbox"

[Anonymous]

oops!

[-dave_hay.jpg-]
Dave_Hay@novaload.org.uk
Dave_Hay5@hotmail.com

[Anonymous]

Right mine is the same 2.0 16v, filter, stainless exhaust and chipped.
with courtenay group n chip it ran 160 @ wheels which they said was 200 @ fly

we also ran a superchipped ecu(ste's) and it ran 152 @ wheels.

[Anonymous]

David, if you added 20% to Ians wheel figure, u would have 192. Same as u.

I`ve just spent the last half hour looking this up, and have found a few articles. The general concensus is about 20%.

Quote: "As a simple rule, the more moving parts the engine`s power has to go through to get to the road wheels, the greater the losses will be. Typical losses for a front wheel driver are about 20%. Its a bit more at 30% for a rear driver and some four wheel drivers can be around 40%, and as for autos..."

Apparently the Escort Cosworth is 228bhp at fly, and looses 34% to 170 at the wheels! That is a shed load of lost power.

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[Anonymous]

Flaming hell so Ian and David are only 10bhp behind a cossie?

B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!B-)

WWW.SAXOKILLERS.COM

[Anonymous]

David will be pleased !!!

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

The differnence is that a Cosworth produces more torque than BHP so thats why it accelerates so well, plus the added bonus of a bit of traction!

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[Anonymous]

yea yea !

[Anonymous]

But I`d rather have a 2.0 16v Nova anyday. I couldnt drive around in an Essex mobile.

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[Anonymous]

It all depends on where you take your car to. I've been to 3 diffrent Rolling Roads in the space of a year. I have a J reg 1.4 SR The first place said I was running 90 BHP, that was with a full exhaust system (standard manifold) and K&N Bolt on Filter. Unfotunatley they didn't say if this was at the wheels or the flywheel.

I went to the Rolling Road day in January with only my exhaust on and standard filter and I was quoted 80BHP at the wheels, which roughly worked out at 100BHP at the fly.

Then about 4 weeks ago I got my car rolling roaded again this time with a K&N Bolt on Filter, Performance manifold and performance exhaust. I was expecting about a 5BHP increase with the manifold and Filter on, however, they quoted me 78BHP at the flywheel, which was about 62BHP at the wheels. This got me really confused as I had more engine mods than I did in January. The car doesn't feel any slower, if anything it's more responsive now that it's been set up correctly. So it goes to show, it varies from garage to garage.

Jim.

"Beware of the voices"

[Anonymous]

fact is no rolling road is the same, and prob not many are accurate.

the only way you can really compare is to have cars on at the same day, eg mine compared well against the other valvers with higher specs at the rolling road day so i was happy.

with cossies you also have a lesser power to weight ratio, and turbo lag, thats why 16v novas kick their arse. but saying that how many cossies are standard?????

[Anonymous]

it goes to show that the last rolling road was talking bollox !!!!

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

Mine went on rollers at Powerzone where RR day was. They were apparently 2 bhp out before recalibration. So those wheel figures should be pretty accurate.

Yet some of the standard SR's at the RR day were only getting 80 odd at fly.

Must just be well looked after examples.



B-)As long as people are still having promiscuous sex with many anonymous partners while at the same time experimenting with mind-expanding drugs in a consequence-free environment, I'll be sound as a pound!B-)

WWW.SAXOKILLERS.COM

[Anonymous]

RE-calibrate my ass! There is no industry standard to ensure that all rolling roads are calibrated to the same outputs. If they do calibrate, who calibrates what they have used to calibrate? another rolling road. I work in an industry where we use calibrations and tight quality control every day. I know from experience how easy it is, even with the best equipment and will in the world to introduce a bias. I work to regulations that are possibly the strictest in the world (FDA) and I`ve seen that multi national collaborations and organisations are fallable.

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[Anonymous]

This is actually MC.

Sorry, the las bit sounds a tad harsh. Rolling roads do callibrate, but the point I was making was that they dont all work together to make sure that all rolling roads read the same.

[Anonymous]

doh i knew i should have put my standard 1.2i on the rollers as a benchmark DOH!!!

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[Anonymous]

To calculate the flywheel figure powerstation in cheltenham pushed the clutch in fully at maximum BHP and measured the drag produced by the gearbox. They then added this to the Wheels total and thats how they got there figures! Hope that helps.
Mingle

Novaload Day in court coming soon :)

[Anonymous]

I really really really want to get my Nova on the rollers, 'cos very roughly counting the 0-60 time, it's definitely about 8 or 9 seconds, which is quicker than a standard GTE! I'm presuming my speedo is reading right of course (digi).
Does this sound a reasonable 0-60 time for my mods?
(1.3 SR engine, Weber 32/34, full Peco zorst, huge K&N, 1.2 head)

[Anonymous]

hmm not sure if that would be correct or not, it would be very easy to mistake 8 or 9 secs for a more realistic 10 or 11 secs but even so thats still quite quick.

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)

[Anonymous]

the way mingle just sed it is the wayu its done at proper rolling roads. not just ohh ahh add about 15% to that number.

just to be piccy (as per) aint Bhp at the fly and hp at the raod or is it the other way round.

ohh and one last thing you can test the power directly at the fly but it does involve removing the engine and putting it on a electric dyno :D

BEng Hons Automotive Electronics Engineering :) worship my electronics skills :D

[Anonymous]

don't think I'll be doing that then !

;)Never be afraid to try anything new, remember amateurs built the ark and professionals built the Titanic !;)