Engine Trouble......help me....

[Mogui]

Hey guys Im new to this forum but Im begging you guys to help me out.
This is the story (you'll have to excuse the detail)...

Im driving the car down the motorway when all of a sudden i lose power, and the engine starts to (what i can only describe as) thud, and i mean its vibrating the whole car and exhaust. So i pull over and look under teh bonnet try to turn the engine over and it really strains to get started after 3 long 'whirrs' from the starter motor fires but its rocking violently in its bay making a sound like the timings off. (Which it isnt.....)
Once home i take out the spark plugs and looking at tehm number 1 being on the left and 4 on the far right, numbers 1 and 2 were looking like it was running hot, and 3 and 4 have water on them.

So then I take the rocker cover ????? and rockers out???? Heres the problem I can take the next part of the engine out to get down to the head gasket. The manifold holds it on at the front and the carb thing?? coming down from the injectors at the back of the head. Now its this big injestor thing i cant get off cos i cant get to the bottom bolts holding it on.

Another thing - when i took the engine bolts out and released the pressure, water poured out of the 3 and 4 holes??? Pitted/grooved head??

So a few questions..

1 - Does this sound like its the head gasket?? Can i skim it if its all eroded on the top??

2 - How the hell do i get to these bolts?? Do you have to remove the engine??? Anyone replaced it b4 on an injection model within the surroundings that arent a mechanics garage??

Im desperately looking for help otherwise this car is gonna be sent to the scrap heap and its my 1st car and still pretty good. I'll post a picture so i can get some sympathy! Anyone wanna swap msn names to help me out? I have a digital camera so i can take some snaps of the engine if i can learn how to post them here. My other prob is that I dont have much room/tools/equipment in my garage and theres no point me paying a mechanic ?1k to do it when i could buy another1.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me out...... btw its a 92 Sri.

Thanx

[Snowface]

hmm

[Mogui]

What the bit im trying to remove??

[Aragorn]

no idea what hes on about gearbox mount for

to get the underside bolts out get the car on axle stands and do it from underneath

sounds like the head gasket if theres water in there

i'd suggest getting your head skimmed to be on the safe side

[mikeyredtop]

could be head gasket, rings, or dropped a valve , but u wont know till u take the head off...

[Jules]

The inlet manifold will all come off with the head, just remove the water pipes / cables and other bits that connect onto the inlet manifold / carb and it'll lift off (one the head bolts have been undone).
It'll weight a bit so maybe get someone to help lift it out.

[Mogui]

Cheers guys, Im glad you knew what i was talking about. How much would it cost to have the head skimmed?? Is it possible to do all this without taking the engine out??

[mikeyredtop]

its possible, 10/20 quid 4 a skim...

[Mogui]

Just finally managed to remove the valve segment to get down to the head and have found that the gasket has worn thru from cylinders 3 to 4.
(Thanks Jules for informing me the inlet manifold comes off with it.)
This has left a burnmark on the tops of both the top of the head and bottom of the valve segment. It feels just rough to touch, how deep does the burn marks have to be to require attention???

If it does, do i actually have to remove the head to have it skimmed??

Another thing, now i have it in its 'apart' state can u suggest any other things i should do while im here?????????

Cheers guys youve been loads of help.

Mog

[Jules]

You say that there are burn marks on the 'valve segment' and also on the 'head' - Not sure what you mean by the 'valve segment' - I can only assume that you actually mean the cylinder head (also known as the 'head') and you think that the 'head' with the scorch marks is actually the Block (the bit at the bottom of the engine with the 4 pistons inside the 4 holes).

Now that the cylinder head is off you need to get it skimmed and replace the head gasket, You'll find that it's now a lot easier to remove the inlet manifold with the head being off the car.

Once you've got the inlet manifold off get a stanley knife blade and scrape off all the bits of gasket that are stuck to the head (Also do the same to the inlet manifold), depending on the company doing the head skim you might also have to take other bits off (thermostat housing water pipe) but I doubt it.
Take the tappets / rockers out of the head and then your head should be ready for a skim.

Order a head gasket set from a motorfactors (I've found Payne one's to be the best) and you should also use new stretch (head) bolts - which have to be tourqed to the correct amount and also done up in the correct order when re-assembling the engine.
With the head gasket set you'll get new gaskets for the exhaust manifold and inlet manifold amongst other so you can replace them. There won't be a gasket for the join between the top of the head and the bottom of the 'cam carrier box' (The bit with the cam running through it) as this is sealed using a instant gasket type of sealer (Can be bought from motorfactors) and is alsmost like a silicon sealer used in your bathroom for example - use a lot of this to ensure it doesn't leak oil once back together and remember that once you've put it on the cam carrier it'll dry up fairly quickly - so only squirt it on once you're ready to put it back on.

You can do all this with leaving the block (bottom part of engine) in the car so no need to worry about removing it.

Hope this helps - If it sounds like I'm over simplifing things then I apoligise, but I'm not sure how much about engine's you know so I thought I'd try and explain it as best as possible!!

[Mogui]

Cheers Jules, but I have some bad news...

I understood everything you said, and I went out and had my mate a mechanic to look at the scorch marks he said they werent a problem so with his help we did all that u said except I never had the head skimmed, as he just rubbed it down (didnt require any skimming).
So its all put back together perfectly with his help (I now know everything there is 2 know definitions and everything!), but then the worst thing happend.....

I left him to set the timing, came back turned the engine over and there was a crack, tooke everything apart again and the belt had slipped or something and the cam has snapped all the, cant remember the name of those eight little metal things that press down onto the springs/valves. Which is the result of the pistons hitting the valves and forcing them up when the cam is forcing them down (which I guess you understand).

So I now have 3 buggered valves (all bent - the exhaust valves btw), require 8 of those metal things and God knows what else. Im pondering just taking it to the scrap heap. Tho Im gonna go to the vauxhall garage 2moro and price up these valves, tho Ive been told it will probably be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand head with all the stuff intact, and refitting the valves may not work.

So im a bit unsure at the moment??????? I may just scrap it.

[Adam]

Do you mean the cam lobes weren't moving because of a slipped/snapped belt(so the cam wasn't moving) and so the piston reached the top of the cylinder with the valve closed and hit the valve, resulting in your bent valves.
The cam belt must have slipped/snapped.
Anyway just assess the damage and see how much it is gonna cost to repair, or just buy another engine, you could pick up a decent SRi engine for probably about 80-100 quid.

[Aragorn]

just get another head from the scrappy

dont even think about getting those bits from vaux - they want about ?10 a valve and prolly similar per rocker

find a car in scrappy with the same engine (its also fitted to early 8v corsa SRi's and some astras) and get the head and rockers from it

shouldnt cost much over ?30 for the head but u'll prolly need to get it skimmed - and make sure the fucker doesnt set the timing up wrong again - he may have used the wrong timing belt as there are 2 types for novas depending on the shape of the teeth on the cam pulley

[Mogui]

U reckon?? The problem is finding a sri head? I dont know how easy that will be. Plus...

Long Live the Nova - No, the problem was that the engine was trying to do 2 things at once. The piston was coming up while the valve was being forced down. The cam pushes the thrust pads which press down the spring/valve, right??? ( I think) Well its all the exhaust valves that have bent and all 8 thrust pads have snapped, with the pressure from each side. At least that was what i was told anyway.

The prob is if i buy new valves im gonna have to grind them so they sit right in the holes arent i?? I dont know whether a scrapper will want to part with only the head??

Btw the belt had slipped when it was all being alligned. Its definately not snapped.

[Adam]

Yeah thats what i mean the valves are never open when the piston is at the top of the cylinder, so when the timing went wrong the cams opened the valves at the wrong time, and the piston then hits the open valve. Causing it to bend/break.