piper cams vs kent cams............

[johnnynova]

both the fast road versions.

the kent cam has slightly higher lift, 0.42 mm, but is 268 dgs, piper is 272 deg,

they both say 12bhp,

so are the practicaly the same, or is one manufacturer better in peoples experience?

cheers

john

[Snowface]

i got a ast2 kent and it really does put on the power after 3000rpm.

[Philsutton]

well i brought my engine with one these in not sure which one though :? My power is after 4000rpm though an its crap below and wont idle just decides to die

[Snowface]

yeah u have to sacrifice idling.

I get an idle at 1900 rpm. Any lower and it cuts out, thats manily due to the cam but having a lightened flywheel and higher compression doesn't help it either.

I can live with that though.

[nova_rally]

You have crap idles because you don't have the fast road cam, which is what this thread is about. the kent Fast Road cam (AST11) kicks in at 1500RPM, not sure on the Piper.

Alan

[Dan]

yeah u have to sacrifice idling.

I get an idle at 1900 rpm. Any lower and it cuts out, thats manily due to the cam but having a lightened flywheel and higher compression doesn't help it either.

I can live with that though.


mine purs like a kitten 900-1000rpm, runs the ast2 296 degree cam, high compression unit which is fully lightened and balanced through out. if i had to turn tick over up like that i wouldn't be happy with the setup. Unless you have a cam that works between 4.5k and 8.5k and is over the 300 degree mark lol

[Snowface]

my engine is only a 1300 and have a weber 32/34.

once i machine the adapter plate/choke barrels on the manifold it should make it a bit better. Basically its not getting enough fuel at idle.

And the fast rad cam is ast1 u gimboid, ast11 is the half kit u get and the power kicks in at 2000rpm.

www.kentcams.com

[m.d.]

if you cant get it to idle at less than 1900 rpm you have a serius problem there. i have silly compression twin 45 dellorto DHLAs and an AST15 296 kent cam. the bottom end is lightened and ballenced too and it purres like a baby at 900 rpm and has never stalled.

as for the argument between kent and piper. never get a piper as they make hardly any difference as they are made to run with a better idle. and there lift and duration settings are allways less than a kent eg the same type of cam piper has 290 lift where as the kent has 296!!!! it des make a difference too

[Jim]

I had the piper 285 road-rally cam. I thought it was fine. Idle was at around 1000rpm.

Jim

[Snowface]

and it purres like a baby at 900 rpm and has never stalled.

as for the argument between kent and piper. never get a piper as they make hardly any difference as they are made to run with a better idle.

So Piper idle even better than the 'Purring Kent kam u got'?

the only other thing i can think of about the bad idle i got is that i got a different 1.2 carb head from the scrappy instead of using the one that was on my 1200. it was meant to save time (putting it on the block i had, then do a straight swap).

But when i had the valves out of the head they had a lot of carbon deposit on them. I ran a knife down them to scrape as much off as poss but perhaps this is causing the prob.

My Cam and ignition timing has been set up correctly.

When i get my B+ head done (sending the spare head from my 1.2 carb engine) i will find out i guess.

[nova_rally]

Kent AST11 - Sport - Lift: 10.3, Duration: 262, Range: 1500 - 5500
Kent AST1 - Sport - Lift: 10.55, Duration: 270 Range 2000 - 6000

Piper 270H - Fast Road - Lift 11.29 Duration 272, Range: 2000-6500
Piper 270HI - Fast Road (Injection) - Lift: 11.29, Duration: 268, Range: 2000-6000

I know which one I'd get!

Alan

[Snowface]

Kent AST11 - Sport - Lift: 10.3, Duration: 262, Range: 1500 - 5500
Kent AST1 - Sport - Lift: 10.55, Duration: 270 Range 2000 - 6000

Piper 270H - Fast Road - Lift 11.29 Duration 272, Range: 2000-6500
Piper 270HI - Fast Road (Injection) - Lift: 11.29, Duration: 268, Range: 2000-6000

I know which one I'd get!

Alan

*****************Power Range****Cam lift**Valve lift****Duration
Kent AST1 - Sports 2000 - 6000 ___ 6.24mm __10.55mm _270 Degress
Kent AST2 - Sports 'R' 3000 - 7000__ 6.09mm __10.30mm _290 Degrees
Kent AST3 Supersports 2500 - 7000 __7.49mm _12.66mm _280 Degrees

haha, cam lift is more important when considering a camshaft.

And the Kent ast2 (which i have) is better, faster, stronger than the Piper 272 :fist:

end of discussion

[Snowface]

^^^only light hearted in case anyone took it serious^^ :|

[mikeyredtop]

ive got a nvo62 kent cam came with the engine so i dont really know the diffrence, although it does have weird idle, seems to have a powerband about 4k...

[Stuart]

kids its duration thats the key on the 8V engines

oh and the overlap, but thats not mentioned in the cam listings (although the "injection" or "sports carb" bit gives a suggestion as to the severity of the overlap)

so calm down

[BigRuss]

listen guys, I don't want to get involved in any arguments but over the last ten years I have used Piper + Kent cams in various manufacturer engines.
I have always liked the piper 285 cam in a fast road car and the 300 or 320 in a competition car.
I have also used Kent A6 + A8 cams with the same success, My point is that all my engines/cars ran smooth especially once set up on the rollers.

I have a X-drilled Enem cam with solid lifters in the rally car and that idles mint at 900rpm, the engine pulls strong from 3500ish all the way to 8250rpm :wink: . If your car needs to idle at 1900rpm You have a problem and the cam is not it :!:

[Jim]

Russ, give me your engine :D

Well said though, you too Camb ;)

Jim

[Snowface]

i was ony having a laugh with the guy. He was taking it quite serious.

[Gunzi]

I have the piper 270 duration cam in my E16SE, I thought it made quite a difference and it idles around 900 smoothly, yet to have it rr'd tho'

[nova_rally]

Only coz you guys insist on ignorning that the oriiginal post was about the Fast Road cams by Piper and Kent! and Snowface - how'd you get that smiley? I want one!

Alan

[CP]

TBH for the costs involved i wouldnt fuck about with a 270 of either make- better to do the job properly get the head done as a priority and then use at least a 280. From what we have seen in various cars the AST2 suits the 8v and gives a more even torque band, but the piper will give good gains as well.

[_JH_]

But when i had the valves out of the head they had a lot of carbon deposit on them. I ran a knife down them to scrape as much off as poss but perhaps this is causing the prob.

did you re-seat the valves?

[Snowface]

nope. What is that anyway, i heard peeps talk about it.

[MC]

I would like to add my 2p's worth.

1. Having anything more than a fast road cam WILL upset the idle UNLESS you have twin 40/45s. It?s all related to the pulses in the inlet tract, so everyone here that says they purr on a wild cam if they have 40?s, true, but someone on a single intake will suffer more.

2. Dan, I respect that your car goes very well on the AST2, but your experience with the piper was clouded by the fact that your ignition system blatantly wasn?t working. It is an unfair comparrisson. I would not say, having driven your car and been a passenger, that it was any better or worse than a piper equipped car.

3. The choice between Piper and Kent will be difficult as there is little to separate them, and to be honest unless you plan to go racing, one or the other will be of little consequence. As CP pointed out, the real choice is how wild you want to go. If you have a car setup to cope with it, go as wild as you can, and this also depends on your ability as a driver. I?ve already stated that more than a fast road cam will upset a car with standard induction, but I have picked a 285 Piper for my Golf, as I can live with an eratic Idle, and I know how to use the engine to cope with the splutters I?ll get on pull away. Think ahead as well. You might have a relatively standard engine now, but in 6 months time, you?ll probably be bored and want more power, ie twin 40?s, and then you?ll wish you had a better cam. To make your choice (kent or piper), get the specs on both cams, duration, lift, power band, and try to guess which will be best, as to be honest unless you have the money to buy both and try them, no matter what advice you?ll get, it always will be pot luck.

CP and I had a few opportunities to compare performance between my fast road and his 285, and there was little in it low down ( I had more grunt, but I had an overbore and higher compression), but CP definitely had more power at high RPM?s/speed.

MC

[Dan]

I didnt know about the pulse/inlet tract thing so learnt there, but if you read my post it was a personal reply to snowface regards his high idle and my concerns regards that as his profile clearly states the same cam. There was no mention of the piper cam or any other cam than his stated lol :wink: .

personally i have had a kent nvo62 , piper 285 and the latest one, on forties they have all idled fine (the piper died when the rpm went above 3k with the ign probs),

[MC]

Fairy muff,

If we have a volunteer, I would like to experiment with different cams and choke sizes on the same engine to find out the difference for real. Any takers? At your expense naturally!

MC

[Stuart]

I'd volunteer, but im not sure which is the cheapest way to renumerate you, with food or real money lol :D

[Dan]

someone say food :D :D , i'll come and help :wink:

[MC]

Hmmm fooooood :lol: Me and Dan will always agree on that! :D

[tom_k]

Kent AST11 - Sport - Lift: 10.3, Duration: 262, Range: 1500 - 5500
Kent AST1 - Sport - Lift: 10.55, Duration: 270 Range 2000 - 6000

Piper 270H - Fast Road - Lift 11.29 Duration 272, Range: 2000-6500
Piper 270HI - Fast Road (Injection) - Lift: 11.29, Duration: 268, Range: 2000-6000

I know which one I'd get!

Alan



*****************Power Range****Cam lift**Valve lift****Duration
Kent AST1 - Sports 2000 - 6000 ___ 6.24mm __10.55mm _270 Degress
Kent AST2 - Sports 'R' 3000 - 7000__ 6.09mm __10.30mm _290 Degrees
Kent AST3 Supersports 2500 - 7000 __7.49mm _12.66mm _280 Degrees


can someone explain to me what the figure are about? only recently taken lookin up at engines!

i take it its a bad idea to ask, which should i put into my car ;)

tom