1.6 turbo

[Shifty]

thinkin bout droppin in a 1.gsi lump and avin a turbo conversion dun.
wot sort of performance stats wud i b lookin @?

[Dicko]

160bhp and a -?3000 bank balance :)

[geordie_racer]

power figure is roughly right although more is achiveble depending on what you do and how it can be done for less than half that figure

chris

[Ben]

Carbs and other work 140+ ?1.5k

Turbo 160-190 ?3k if you do a lot of the work yourself and will suffer from serious Lag.

[geordie_racer]

where does every1 get 3k from?

low comp pistons pistons =?400ish
thicker headgasket =?100ish
t2 turbo+actuator from r5=?250 years guarentee
aftermarket ecu + mapping ?800ish

thats ?1500 and then its just minor things like custom pipework which won't cost much

chris

[Shifty]

wow now that is cheap

[ncole]

it can be done as cheap as geordie racer says if ya do most of the work yaself there was a topic about this in this section of the forum or look in the turbos features section a few in there dav is running 200bhp without low comp pistons and all the work was done himself for a grand

this is the best topic i can find on here
http://www.novaload.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67450&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Stuart]

umm and how about the bottom end rebuild (if your going to build an engine you may aswell do it right)

so a crank regrind + bearings (main and big end)

shot peen the rods

ARP bolts etc blah blah

oh and the inlet manifold
and head work
and cam

does go on lol

[geordie_racer]

mmm, arp bolts and things probably should be considered as your playing with the pistons anyway so thats prob another couple hundred quid max bottom end should be in decent condition anyway unless the engines been thrashed to pieces in which case you shouldnt be considering using it as a base for a turbo setup(things like this are where turbos pick up a bad name for reliability)

inlet manifold only needs adjusting to suit the fueling supply so can be done yourself. why do headwork on a turbo engine to be honest a decent rebuilt head will be fine, why if your going to lash out a load of money on headwork are you building a turbo engine you should be looking more towards twin 40's or throttle bodies oh and your wanting to keep the compression ratio down.

fancy profiled cams don't lend themselves to turbo engines very well really so a mild profile is the way to go so id opt for a 1.4sr one on a budget

also the bottom end of most engines are fine unless your wanting to run stupid amounts of power, lets see a decent condition 1.6 nova gsi bottom end should be good for between 140-150bhp and a 1.6 16v block is good for up to 200bhp most of the building of a turbo is getting the cooling and gasflow correct which is quite simple if you take your time

and lag can be reduced in a serious of ways but if your really worried about it then get a small nos kit setup to work in the time when the turbo is spinning up which will reduce lag or a decent amount of time on a rooling road will eliminate most lag its just a case of making changes to the system to find the best solution

chris

[NovaNeil]

geordie_racer wrote:

where does every1 get 3k from?

low comp pistons pistons =?400ish
thicker headgasket =?100ish
t2 turbo+actuator from r5=?250 years guarentee
aftermarket ecu + mapping ?800ish

thats ?1500 and then its just minor things like custom pipework which won't cost much


:| If only it was that simple and cheap............

Im sorry but theres no way you could put all that stuff in for that money!!! I think you'd find it would be more like double that by the time you've finished!!!

[Chris_W]

Excuse me but why would you only have headwork done if your doing an N/A car? Ok a turbo is pumping pressure in, so it's not as important, but if you do flow the head you can make the same power using less boost which puts less stress and heat into the engine.
Also with the ARP rod bolts, most turbo cars will run out of puff by about 6K, so aren't as important, rod bolts are normally for rev happy cars. The lag issue will only come about if your using the wrong turbo, trust me I had a T3 on mine and it was shite to spool up from standing, but if it was rolling it would waste any courtenay T2 jobbie. As the saying goes, if your going to do a job you might aswell do it properly.....


Chris

[geordie_racer]

hmmm not wanting to turn all this into an arguement but i disagree about the cost. those prices i no are accurate because ive got all the parts required to do it at those prices the only thing to be decided is how much the map session costs.

and as for the head work and arp bolts chris_w is spot on and thats what i meant just didnt explain clearly. the parts are cheap to come by its just a case of biding time everybody no's some1 who's been foolish enough to blow a r5 gt turbo then its jut a case of offering him a resonable amount for the damaged engine and then thats most the parts got then the rest are fairly easy to pick up. like all things with cars turbo's are as difficult as you make them if you keep the setup simple and do it in a planned order then there should be no reason for them to go wrong and if it does it should be very easy to trace the problem

chris

[Dicko]

aftermarket ecu + mapping ?800ish

ecu = ?600
loom = ?300 (?100 home made)
mapping = ?300-?500 for a turbo.

I still say ?2k for a quick job, ?3k+ for a decent job thats going to last!

[NovaNeil]

OK, Let me put a few cost down for you that I have encountered.

As Dicko has already correctly said:
ECU ?600
Loom ?310 (for me)
Mapping ?500

Theres ?1400 of your ?1500 already gone!


Now for the "little" items that add up.
Map Sensor ?100
Ignition coil ?70
Ignition leads (VR6 I used to fit coil) ?90
Remote Oil filter gubbins ?60-80
Crank Position sensor ?25
Crank position Disc ?60
Machining work to fit disc onto pulley and hold Sensor into position ?125
Uprated fuel pump ?90 (I used mk1 Golf GTi)
Uprated fuel pressure regulator ?90 (I broke 2 FSE ones as they couldn't cope)
Larger injectors ?20-30
Air temp Sensor ?25
Variable resistance Potentiometer ?.... (I used different throttle body that had one in. ?35)

So thats another ?820!!! and thats on things you MUST have for the DTA to function correctly and to supply the fuel required.

Next you need to lower the compression. Cheapest way spacer plate between two head gaskets. Plate ?130 from Courtenay
Intercooler ?varies, but my Courtenay one ?250 although you could find a cheap second hand one.
Exhaust manifold ?250 again from Courtenay.
Boost hoses ?........
Oil feed Hoses ?.........
Induction kit ?..........

You starting to get the idea yet?

We're nearly on ?3000 and you haven't even brought a Turbo yet and your lowering compression ratio with a plate........And not expensive low comp Pistons.

Also if you did all that you'd want an uprated clutch.....Sorry NEED an uprated clutch!

All the costs quoted are what it cost me, so if you can get them cheaper then fair enough.

I just wanted to prove that it isn't a cheap and easy thing to do.
There is a lot off other costs as well as the ones that i've mentioned if you want to do the job properally, but i've just quoted the bare essentials to this "cheap" conversion.

Neil

[craig green]

First thing I MUST say is that I can make about 1000 or more spacers for the price of a courtenay one. They are avin a laugh.
Back to the original question in hand. Its definately worth doin on a 1600 engine. I chose a Courtenay conversion as I wanted something a little different. I couldve had a valver but there was a novelty to not adding weight or spoiling the handling, keeping the original engine no & a whistling turbo on a car that shouldnt hav1 is great.
I had my head flowed too. It cleans up the way the engine pulls really good, its hard to describe but sounds more healthy aswell. Courtenay said that I wouldnt get the 15% increase as the head should because the lower compression makes it less effective/ cam also. Ive now put the GM cam back in. The T2 pulls madly from low down (no lag).
Friend of mine a Ralliart dealer mechanic nearlyp*$!ed himself when he came out for a drill in my car. Ive just raised the boost pressure to 11psi now after nearly 3 yrs of having it as it came from Courtenay. Its still entertaining me now.
I toyed with the idea of a homegrown job & had the idea of installing RS turbo management on the GM lump as it would then be tunable from there once up & running nicely. Is this daft? I thought not.
Home made turbo conversions are well trick though and a dead cert way to turn heads without the need of JAP bumpers or 17" wheels. MANS CARS

[Dicko]

Neil some ideas incase you ever need to redo your bottom end..Crank

Position sensor ?25
Crank position Disc ?60
Machining work to fit disc onto pulley and hold Sensor into position ?125

if you use a 16v xe bottom end and use a nova sri/gsi alt pulley you dont need any of the above.
also the coil you used, was that ?70 new cuz i payed ?20 for mine works fine with dta :)

and yes iv used a 16v bottom end with a 8v head before :)

[geordie_racer]

not saying it cant cost 3k but am saying with a bit of luck it can be done for alot less. i love cars and make my own looms for this stuff coz its fun which averages ?70 but yes building full spec turbo's can get expensive but it really comes down to experience and what your prepared to do/make yourself you shouldn't be considering a turbo engine as a quick way to power as they do encounter problems and require a commitment to them if your looking for quick power then honestly look towards carbs and throttle bodies although the power figures look great they take a lot of research and varying trial/error to get setup correctly as it becomes pretty much individual to each car and setup

chris

[NovaNeil]

Dicko,
I found that out about the bottom end after I spent loads of money rebuilding the 8v's unfortunetely. I may do the 16v bottom end in the future if I decide to go balls out with some serious boost :twisted: . But not next year............well maybe, we'll have to see.

Ignition Coil was one for an Audi TT, I was told this was the one to use as I wanted really thick Ignition leads because of the EXTREME heat coming off the Turbo Manifold! (I've already melted the VR6 Leads and they were ?90 :cry: ). Maybe it was an Expensive coil.....but it works well so im not too concerned.

Chris (AKA geordie_racer) Let me know if you need to know if you need any details of the loom or anything like that, to make it easier for you.

You hoping to have it done for show session next year?

What ECU you planning on running?

Neil

[geordie_racer]

neil im still undecided on ecu its between dta and emerald think it'll prob be emerald as its only fair to keep business to the small home grown people. whether it'll be all done for show season will be very touch and go as i have some major ideas and am wantin 2 shows cars built so ill be a busy guy

chris

[Paul16v]

how about this

2.0 16v xe & F20 gearbox + loom etc ?450-500
Nova gte shafts+cvs ?80ish
Engine mounts ?80
+a bit of time weldin etc

150-160hp for under 800quid

[geordie_racer]

how about i want to keep the 1.6 handling aspects, i prefer turbo setups and its cheaper to insure my turbo lump than a valver also i think small block turbo's are the way the modding scene will start moving soon oh and its my car and ill do wot i like lol nah honestly yes the valver is an option but it depends what you want from your engine i prefer turbo's just for there setting up ability the way you can differ between 5 or 6 slightly different maps and get very different results from the engine but each to there own

chris