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C20 YOB
03-10-15, 11:31 PM
*HOW TO* Convert F20 to Cable Shift - F17 Turret (Morse Cable Bulk Buy)

This is a ‘How to guide’ for fitting a Vectra C 1.8 F17 Gearbox turret to an F20 gearbox fitted to 1991 Nova Trip and converting it to cable shift.
I also want to arrange a bulk buy for the cables required to fit all the parts to the car. More info on ‘Morse Cables’ in the thread.


Parts Required
F17 Gearbox Turret and Cable Mounting Bracket (good idea to take the Vectra cables although they are too long for the nova they may fit other cars)
Vectra C Gear Selector (pretty sure any selector will do from any cable shift car, the Astra VXR or H has a shorter throw so I’m told as well)
Shifter Cables

Push-Pull Cables
This is a summary of info regarding shifter cables which I’ve gathered over the last while and its probably the most important part of getting the setup to work in the car.

The shifter cables in the Vectra are known as Push-Pull. Identical cables can be found on boat throttle cables. Most commonly know as Teleflex Morse Cables, normally 33C Teleflex. The Teleflex 33C cables are terminated in ‘Clamp’ ends, usable but better with bulkhead fittings on a car. So 33B is for bulkhead. The inner cable ends are normally 10/32unf.
The Vectra ones are 30 series cable with 65mm/85mm Travel.

and similar ones can be bought from most marine outlets, unfortunately the shortest length readily available is 4 feet, which is around the length of the Vectra ones which are too long. Nightmare!!! Custom ones it is then… (bear in mind this is on a nova, Astra / Corsa main differ)

NB - These are heavier duty than the standard Vectra ones and will be fit for more abuse.
The only thing left to buy is M6 to 10mm ball joints to tie into the turret and selector (the F17 turret has 10mm ball joints on it)
Please PM me if you are interested. You will need to mock up a length and tell me.
Pics to follow and I’ll put up more info / pics of the fitted cables once I fit mine. I'll put a pic up of where my shifter is on my nova and if your happy to put yours in the same position then you can get the same length cables as me.

Iain
06-10-15, 10:40 AM
Good info, and nice idea with the cables.

I mocked up this set-up and and decided not to proceed with it due to the space between the gearbox bracket and the steering rack, the cables would be hard up against the rack.

You'll also have to overcome the fact the F20 casing doesn't have the threaded mounts for bolting on the bracket, so you'll have to make up a little adapter. Whilst making this adapter it may be possible to lower the bracket slightly to give more clearance on the rack.

RallyMarshal
06-10-15, 11:10 AM
Just for info - theres 2 different types of F17 cable shift selector.

One has a big counterweight cast into it and one has the counterweight on a pivot connected by a plastic rod.

My thread might be useful to you...

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?211253-Pauls-Astra-Mk2-rallying-adventures

Paul..

C20 YOB
06-10-15, 08:28 PM
Paul, glad to see your short shift is possible, that idea had popped into my head, harder with the turret I have as its got the counter weight, I'll maybe change it out.

Iain, I plan to run the cables above the rack and I'm going to make a new bracket up for mounting. I'll need to get some pics together tomorrow. got a few for now.

C20 YOB
06-10-15, 08:32 PM
F17 Turret (Counter Balance Type - Note > none counter balance type available), fitted to the F20.

Jhttp://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20150901_004.jpg

Iain
06-10-15, 10:25 PM
Bracket I made up to attach the bracketry to an F20

http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/Misc/f20bracket1.JPG

http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/Misc/f20bracket2.JPG

Other type of turret, off a Vectra C

http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/Misc/f20turret.JPG

C20 YOB
07-10-15, 09:36 PM
Engine side marked up where I plan to run the cables (note above the rack)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151007_002.jpg

View from Ball Joint thru bracket showing ideal root (hope the inlet etc. doesn't fowl the cables, I'll maybe mock up the head and inlet to check, feel free to comment on this), these could quite easily be brought down but I'm hoping to avoid any plate work and the 'gun sight' view shows this as being the ideal point.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151007_001.jpg

Next thing I'm gonna do is use 6mm round bar to mock up the inner cable length. The gearstick end of the round bar has been tapped M6, once I get the ball joints I'll fit these and the round to the gear stick end and lock it in reverse. Then i'll fit the ball joint to the gearbox and should be able to get the length bang on.

I've ordered 10mm / M6 ball joints from here very cheap:) > http://www.springfixlinkages.com/en/catalog/metric-linkages/ball-and-socket-joints/ball-socket-joints-housings/r3524
The Push-Pull cable is 40series and the inner cable is fitted with M6 ends.

(the original plan was to go below the rack and I got abit gun hoe with grinder hence the giant hole in the bulkhead)

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151007_003.jpg

Gearbox side, ball joint yet to be fitted.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151007_004.jpg

C20 YOB
08-10-15, 09:11 PM
Ball joints came today, 10mm M6 Female Carbon steel zinc plated from Spring fix linkages...



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151008_003.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/WP_20151008_003.jpg.html)


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151008_002.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/WP_20151008_002.jpg.html)

Tidy wee brouchure...

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/9cf65b22-fc36-4265-84d0-262a1d13047b.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/9cf65b22-fc36-4265-84d0-262a1d13047b.jpg.html)

Threaded the end of the round bar M6 and fitted the ball joint. Then popped it onto the selector.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151008_004.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/WP_20151008_004.jpg.html)

Locked the gearstick in reverse and also put the box into reverse. Gearbox side length marked onto the rod.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151008_005.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/WP_20151008_005.jpg.html)

Threaded the gearbox end and fitted it to the turret, can actually surprisingly select gears using the stick even with the round bar. Will mock up the second cable tomorrow.
Below shows the round bar off the car, only 1 small bend in it, it sits completely flat. my selector is raised 80mm so the cables are dead level going thru the bulkhead.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151008_006.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/C20YOB/media/WP_20151008_006.jpg.html)

gaf2
12-10-15, 09:37 PM
Looking good Yobbo! I mite have to try hard to resist your set up once you have it done, unless i am sequential by end of next week ;)

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:45 PM
Despite not wanting to butcher the bulkhead I've done it, see pic below above rack, now cables to pass closer to the rack and they are now passing thru nice flat 1mm steel which means the grommets will fit nice and snug.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_5.jpg


Above is now welded both sides, Below is the other side, 23mm holes drilled for the grommets, and the grommets fitted (the cables have grommets fitted to them so these will remove and the grommets and cables fitted in one piece.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_12.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:48 PM
Bulkhead fitting kindly supplied from Cable Company beside the IP67 sealing grommet. Bulkhead fitting is very adjustable.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_2.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:49 PM
Bulkhead fitting shown in the selector....

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_4.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:53 PM
Now I removed the turret for relocating the ball joint to shorten the shift (note the cap needs removed to get this part separated), even if you don't plan to relocate the ball joint and your happy with the shift length, its worth taking it off and tightening the nut in there as myn was quite loose, solved the problem when put it back together.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_7.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:55 PM
Pressed the old ball joint out by putting a socket over it and squeezing the shaft with an M5 stainless bolt, was very very very tight, need heat too.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_8.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 05:56 PM
Tight as but oot now... Note deep socket

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_9.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 06:01 PM
See the new M8 (BZP) Steel Ball Joint and its proposed new location. Had to cut off the counter balance to drill and tap the hole, Does anyone know if I really need that? What does it do?

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_10.jpg

Counter balance off 6.8mm hole drilled and Now tapped M8.


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_11.jpg

C20 YOB
30-10-15, 06:12 PM
Since then Ive ordered my cables, should be here by the 4th November. Turret is back on and everything is ready to trial.

If you have cables the conversion is a bolt on job (unless you weld up the bulkhead i suppose but you could just drill 23mm holesaw thru the bulkhead instead)

I have preordered another 2sets of cables if anyone would like to buy a set info below....

40Series M16 Bulkhead Fittings Both ends, terminated M6, IP67 sealing grommet fitted.
Cable 1 1058mm - 85mm Travel - £37.50+vat
Cable 2 958mm - 65mm Travel - £37.50+vat
M6 10mm Ball Joint Socket - £3/each (4No. required)
IP67 Sealing Grommets to suit 10-13mm Cable, 23mm hole in bulkhead (final OD being 28mm) to suit 1mm bulkhead thickness - £3/each
Dont have the M8 ball joint tho, ebay for them.

NOTE - remaining cables have not been made yet so you can choose any length / route.

PM if interested.

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:06 PM
Cables arrived, outer cable is slightly to short but I've sorted that with some bracketie brackets



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_28.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_27.jpg



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_26.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:08 PM
Here are the actual cables .....

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_25.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:08 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_24.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:11 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_23.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:12 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_22.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:14 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_18.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:14 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_17.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:15 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_15.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:20 PM
Here is the standard vectra cable against the new heavier duty ones, the heavier duty ones have a longer ''middle'' cable, would get this shorter for any more cables made as it would remove the need to make that bracket up at this end and also be closer to the turret at the box side.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_13.jpg

joff-turbo-nova
09-11-15, 11:21 PM
So how does it now feel??? I know the cable shift on my Meriva with an M32 has a much better feel that the nova style linkage that my wifes 1.8 Meriva has.

I assume under load with the engine moving around, as the cables are on a fixed point on the gearbox it will make little difference in the ability to select gears . Good job !!

Joff

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:25 PM
Now for the bracket at the gearbox side

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_002.jpg




http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_003.jpg



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_004.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_008.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_011.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:27 PM
So how does it now feel??? I know the cable shift on my Meriva with an M32 has a much better feel that the nova style linkage that my wifes 1.8 Meriva has.

I assume under load with the engine moving around, as the cables are on a fixed point on the gearbox it will make little difference in the ability to select gears . Good job !!

Joff


Feels very very crisp / tight Jeff, I'll upload A video in day or so. Really pleased with result!!!!!

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:31 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151106_012.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_30.jpg

Final Bracket all strengthened up, on to the car for the 12th time.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_31.jpg

C20 YOB
09-11-15, 11:53 PM
The bracket completed and fitted in position. Last few pics, will get a video uploaded soon.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_34.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_32.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/temporary_33.jpg

joff-turbo-nova
10-11-15, 12:19 PM
The counterweight just makes the "throw" easier between gears - without it you just have to put more effort in at the gearstick end of things!

Jo​ff

Stuart
10-11-15, 02:12 PM
Interesting that Morse are selling bespoke cables now, as I wanted them to make me some proper cables after their OEM ones for the vx220 failed on me (and then many others), but they wouldn't :( had to goto Tuthill/Cablecraft (as they are now known) and had some fantastic parts made by them

C20 YOB
10-11-15, 06:06 PM
The counterweight just makes the "throw" easier between gears - without it you just have to put more effort in at the gearstick end of things!

Jo​ff

Hmm I may tack that back on and see what difference it makes, maybe put it back on.



Interesting that Morse are selling bespoke cables now, as I wanted them to make me some proper cables after their OEM ones for the vx220 failed on me (and then many others), but they wouldn't :( had to goto Tuthill/Cablecraft (as they are now known) and had some fantastic parts made by them

Stuart, I will have to amend the info in here (amended the first post) I was mistaken with a Morse cable being a push pull cable, like the hoover and vacuum cleaner, stihl saw and stone cutting device etc.
These cables are from Hindle controls, managed to get them down the most:)

Stuart
10-11-15, 07:20 PM
nicely :)
might have been morris actually.... M something lol

C20 YOB
10-11-15, 11:24 PM
Here's a video from inside the car beside the selector, refitted the counter balance weight and shall leave it as it feels splendid.

The shift feels amazing, hope the video does it justice!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/th_WP_20151110_001.mp4 (http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/C20YOB/WP_20151110_001.mp4)

darragh792
26-01-16, 12:43 AM
Link doesn't seem to be working have you had a drive with the cables yet

sibzy
27-03-18, 09:44 PM
Does anyone know if the astra h cables are shorter??